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Invacar Model 70 Acquired! and general ramble thread, index on page 1, Phase 2: finding a suitable driving school/instructor getting lessons and a licence! first lesson had!

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I can haz Stuart's book now, seems only fair to put a few pounds his way for the help he has provided via LBF.

 

It is a 'print on demand' book, i.e. they only print it when you order it (from my local bookshop). It's almost as though it is a niche subject ;-)

 

post-20084-0-88326500-1553000118_thumb.jpg

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Awesome stuff :) I was planning on buying one for the same reasons, because even if the book only gives a brief over view of things, its worth it alone if nothing else as a show of support :) (plus even tho it did not tell me anything I didn't already know about the Model 70, it was cool reading about all the other invalid carriages :) )

 

interesting on the print on demand thing, I was wondering about that, because I know the book dates a few years back, but my copy has a QR code in it

 

(its pretty clear the book was written for the general public, rather then the die hard enthusiast I very much look forward to stuarts next book, which is supposed to basically be a brain dump of everything he knows :mrgreen:  )

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To prove the point, here's RML903 in the year 2000. Red paint everywhere and no fleetnames. It looks awful yet someone actually took it to a show looking like this!

 

16680636922_e2dbdc74a6_c.jpg

Metroline WLT 903 by Adam Floyd, on Flickr

 

(before anyone asks, the green one next to it is RMC1476. I've no idea why it had LT roundels on NBC green)

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I think these days it at least has a painted mid band now, but no fleet names still...

 

also on wrong wheels too, without any nut covers, I hate it when people run around with their nuts on show  :mrgreen:

 

 

as for RMC1476, thats because it was a ex learner, LT Just quickly slapped LT roundels on it to donate its their bus then just pushed it into training service

 

(although I think a couple did actually get repainted in green LOL)

 

one RMC was in NBC Green with maroon wheels, made for an interesting combination :)

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fine fine...

have a picture of TA1 :) I have fond memories of this bus type as well, as it was the Bus stagecoach ran on the 3 most local routes here (26 48 and 55), and I even remember TA1 specifically, because unlike the rest which had normal stagecoach seat patterns and plastic seat frame, TA1 had Routemaster style seat frames with the grey/rainbow stripe seat pattern.

 

 

TA1cb.jpg

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Leyland nationals are my favourite as per this thread seemingly as it's great to read total enthusiasm about machinery I can barely remember on the roads , I rode on the number 8 L.N. from Scottswood road to Kenton bar back in 2006 before they succumbed to progress and journey wise it included decent stretch of hill rising out of lemington most likely a good 1:10 of which provoked the Leyland 510 plant coupled to I guess a slow shifting automatic gearbox into a rather deafening rhythmic symphony of measured mechanical taps and cylinder pressure waves, memorable stuff especially when juxtaposed against contemporary modern quiet efficiency.

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Useful* fact: whichever Invacar it is that's held by the Lakeland Motor Museum (plates not visible alas), is fitted with a steering wheel. Not sure how the controls work on that one.

 

ahh that will be RPF19R luckily I have pictures of that with its plate visible :)

 

indeed iv noticed it has a steering wheel, but with some extra hand control, im not sure if its for brakes or for acceleration (or both?)

 

post-25614-0-97654600-1551044354_thumb.jpg
 
 

 

IIRC the one in Glasgow Transport Museum also has a steering wheel.

 

indeed, GPG721K the oldest known surviving Model 70 :)

 

has regular car controls, (ie steering wheel, with brake and acceleration pedals)

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/32723-wanted-an-invacar-ac-model-70-and-general-ramble-thread-with-survivors-list-on-page-26-and-thread-index-on-page-1/?p=1758943

 

884444570c8dda02df8945b23ea3e6ae.jpg

 

im really curious what the millage is/if its ever been used given it still has a "running in" sticker... (also curious about its general story, being untaxed since 1978!)

 

 

you can also see the 2 different types of steering wheel control bellow :)

 

post-25614-0-84340500-1545150595_thumb.png
post-25614-0-77189200-1548065867_thumb.jpg

 

(its worth remembering you could get every control scheme with or without foot pedals, so you could have a steering wheel config entirely controlled by your hands, or a tiller configuration entirely controlled by your feet, with the tiller JUST for steering :) )

 

which is how I believe this one has been setup

 

post-25614-0-09362200-1548949853_thumb.jpg

 

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That lever to the right if the steering wheel is liable to be the brakes / throttle. Pull to go faster, push away to stop.

 

They fitted that system to some normal cars that were adapted for disabled drivers.

 

ah cool :)

 

yeah i had seen it on normal cars too but just couldn't recall how it functioned :)

 

(Also not 100% sure on the tiller one above, pretty sure the 3 pedals are for parking brake, foot brake and acceleration, but i do see a cable coming off the tiller that might be a throttle cable?)

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I know nothing about buses but I saw a poor condition "London bus" on a low laoder yesterday. It was either dirty white or a dull grey colour and looked like it had half the upper deck removed. Like how a midtop van would look next to a high top of the high top were the norm.

Didn't spot the reg, sorry.

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aye a lot of Routemasters have been butchered and converted to open top sadly

 

im always weary of ones converted to Open top by non London Transport people, because the Routemaster is a monocoque design, so if you just go lopping the roof off it might lead to structural issues

 

granted iv not heard of any Open top RMs imploding LOL

 

 

on the Invacar front, now that iv got a couple sites that can look up NI reg plates, I decided to see, where the NI Model 70s done in batches or on a 1 off basis, and it looks like 1 one off basis, as Reg plates before and after SOI7570 and WOI654 are not Model 70s

 

I really do want to see the vin/lubrication plate on one of these NI Model 70s to see what the actual Date of manufacture is, because we know by the chassis numbers there all very Late Model 70s,

 

but I have a feeling they where registered a good few months or couple years after they where built (aka some good ol late registration madness :) ) because the NI Model 70s only 10s of cars away from the last known UK Model 70s, but have date of registrations either months or a year or 2 ahead, and I doubt it really took them 2 years to build 10s of Model 70s

 

(For example VES108S, Date of first registration is 13 Feb 1978, and its 8920, SOI7570 is 8955, but has a date of first registration of 1st December 1978, I doubt it really took them almost an entire year to build 35 cars, so I have a feeling SOI7570 may have sat around for a while before being registered in NI)

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Not sure how I missed this

 

but I just noticed, WOO848S, is 8919, and VES108S is 8920, 2 consecutive invacars! :)

 

but sadly the last Invacars where a mess in terms of registration to vin plate (ie they where not done in sequence, so VES108Ss original reg number is probably not WOO849S probably, esp as that one comes back as an Invacar From 8th march 1978, sadly untaxed since before Y2K so i cant look it up for its VIN)

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aye a lot of Routemasters have been butchered and converted to open top sadly

 

im always weary of ones converted to Open top by non London Transport people, because the Routemaster is a monocoque design, so if you just go lopping the roof off it might lead to structural issues

 

granted iv not heard of any Open top RMs imploding LOL

 

 

on the Invacar front, now that iv got a couple sites that can look up NI reg plates, I decided to see, where the NI Model 70s done in batches or on a 1 off basis, and it looks like 1 one off basis, as Reg plates before and after SOI7570 and WOI654 are not Model 70s

 

I really do want to see the Chassis plate on one of these NI Model 70s to see what the actual Date of manufacture is, because we know by the chassis numbers there all very Late Model 70s,

 

but I have a feeling they where registered a good few months or couple years after they where built (aka some good ol late registration madness :) ) because the NI Model 70s only 10s of cars away from the last known UK Model 70s, but have date of registrations either months or a year or 2 ahead, and I doubt it really took them 2 years to build 10s of Model 70s

 

(For example VES108S, Date of first registration is 13 Feb 1978, and its 8920, SOI7570 is 8955, but has a date of first registration of 1st December 1978, I doubt it really took them almost an entire year to build 35 cars, so I have a feeling SOI7570 may have sat around for a while before being registered in NI)

It must have had some kind of roof improvised because it wasn't open top, but looked like it may have been in the past.

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It must have had some kind of roof improvised because it wasn't open top, but looked like it may have been in the past.

 

 

4371413098_1f47ae06eb_b.jpg

 

:mrgreen:

 

(for those wondering, only the top deck was lowered the bottom deck was just panelled over to give a lowered affect)

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im really curious what the millage is/if its ever been used given it still has a "running in" sticker... (also curious about its general story, being untaxed since 1978!)

 

 

 

Mileage is showing 19484!

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very interesting :)

 

I wonder whats with the running in sticker then... (did it have an engine change or something prior to being donated?)

 

the Model 70 looks to be in very nice and clean shape so one would think its not been used and abused much...

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another Electric invalid carriage has cropped up for sale https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1092322

 

must be the season for them or something!

 

I do wonder why its been given an age related plate when in the photos it seems to be wearing something else if not the orignial? (maybe its been plate raped and stuck on retention as the original? plate does not show up on the DVLA)

 

heres a link to the first one that popped up for sale  https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1083987

 

what are the chances of that 2 harding electric ICs for sale at the same time LOL :)

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Well got another "mystery" parcel in my name today

 

only this time once I opened it and saw the contents I knew exactly what it was/who it was from :) (although I had a good idea before hand going by the weight of it LOL )

 

post-25614-0-60800500-1553338286_thumb.jpg

 

its the Philips SL lamp Skizzer very kindly offered me in this post :)http://autoshite.com/topic/33047-the-grumpy-thread/page-2947?do=findComment&comment=1746870

 

(shown next to TWC mug full of 10 year old iPhones for size comparison  :mrgreen: )

 

im very happy thats its arrived and arrived intact, he did an awesome packing job, much better than most ebay sellers iv bought SL lamps off of in the past!

 

post-25614-0-36816700-1553338722_thumb.jpg

 

here it is lit up :)

 

post-25614-0-73878900-1553338740_thumb.jpg

 

im very happy to have a first generation Philips SL lamp in my collection once more and im very thankful to Skizzer for donating it to me and my collection  :)

 

for those wondering it was manufactured in August 1985, so literally mid 1980s as Skizzer says :)

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on the Invacar front, now that iv got a couple sites that can look up NI reg plates, I decided to see, where the NI Model 70s done in batches or on a 1 off basis, and it looks like 1 one off basis, as Reg plates before and after SOI7570 and WOI654 are not Model 70s

 

I really do want to see the vin/lubrication plate on one of these NI Model 70s to see what the actual Date of manufacture is, because we know by the chassis numbers there all very Late Model 70s,

 

but I have a feeling they where registered a good few months or couple years after they where built (aka some good ol late registration madness :) ) because the NI Model 70s only 10s of cars away from the last known UK Model 70s, but have date of registrations either months or a year or 2 ahead, and I doubt it really took them 2 years to build 10s of Model 70s

 

(For example VES108S, Date of first registration is 13 Feb 1978, and its 8920, SOI7570 is 8955, but has a date of first registration of 1st December 1978, I doubt it really took them almost an entire year to build 35 cars, so I have a feeling SOI7570 may have sat around for a while before being registered in NI)

 

I've sent an email to my semi-contact over at the Ulster Transport Museum, to see if I can beg permission to poke around a bit on WOI654 - I'd like to take a proper image of both the VIN plate in the cabin and also the chassis number, to add to the records being built up here. I'm hopeful that permission will be granted, since it's a bona fide academic research project and I hold longstanding museum membership.

 

Hi ****,

 
I'm hoping you might be able to provide me with contact details for a member of staff in the Ulster Transport Museum who deals with requests concerning specific vehicles in the museum's collection.
 
One of the exhibits in the Car Gallery is a 1980 AC Model 70 (Invacar), currently carrying the non-standard registration mark RDS 1 TW, but believed to be originally registered in Belfast as WOI654.
 
I have been in correspondence with an Invacar enthusiast through an online car forum who is researching the history of the Model 70, and he has reason to believe that some of the very last examples of the Model 70 were built separately for Northern Ireland users, several years after batch production officially ceased in 1978.
 
As this individual is based in England, I have offered to make enquiries on his behalf as a local enthusiast and as a member of NMNI. He has advised that if I could provide details of the vehicle's VIN plate and chassis number, this would enable him to cross-reference against the factory records now held by the Invacar Register's archivist, and determine whether the build date of this particular car post-dates the last known production run.
 
I'm not sure whether you would have this data to hand through the museum's records, or whether it would be possible for me to schedule a date and time to inspect the vehicle itself along with a member of staff (which would require access to the cabin of the car, and take no longer than a few minutes).
 
Thanking you in anticipation of a reply,
 
DATSUNCOG

 

Out of interest, where should the chassis number be located on a late Model 70? At least the VIN plate is easy to find!

 

It's been very interesting to learn that NI seems to have had a different system for registration (possibly because it's such a small place?) - and it would be helpful to find out whether the NI cars were either re-registered cars brought over from the GB-registered batches, or brought over unregistered and stored for a few years in Belfast, or built to order from parts (maybe locally?) after Model 70 production ceased.

 

I'm also intrigued to learn that at least one or two were in use in the Republic of Ireland too; they're fairly distinctive wee things so I'm sure those Irish Shiters who have commented upthread are quite correct in their recollections.

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Awesome stuff! many thanks for going out of your way for me/the invacar, will be very interesting to see what your able to dig up :)

 

the chassis number of a Model 70 should be here on the suspension top mount normally, stamped directly in the metal, so if its a bit dirty, you might need to scrub at it a bit, but its worth having a general look around if its not there, (I think KPL139P specifically, had her chassis number in a different location up front but thats the exception to the rule I think)

 

post-25614-0-28439800-1553684153_thumb.jpg

 

and as you have seen the VIN plate inside the cabin, its the VIN plate that will have the date of manufacture on it :)

 

and yeah on the registration thing, on the car look up websites, I can look up pretty much any NI Registration, even if the car has not existed for 30+ years

 

but I cant do the same for a British car, even if it still shows up on the DVLA site

 

(on Total car check, the TAX/MOT information return "No data available" for the NI Model 70s, rather then not taxed/yes taxed)

 

so it seems these websites might be using a different database they acquired at some point for NI cars?

 

 

 

for reference:

 

heres a close up of the chassis number location on the actual chassis 

 

post-21417-0-99263000-1552153381.jpg

 

and a close up the VIN plate in the cabin :)

 

post-25614-0-02945500-1541797332_thumb.png

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I'm heading up to Lakeland Motor Museum in a couple of weeks. Anything you'd like to know about that one?

 

oh thanks for the heads up much appreciated  :)

 

a shot of its controls would be pretty cool especially given its unusual steering wheel layout, and maybe one of its VIN plate inside the cabin to verify its details match up with what iv got recorded currently? :)

 

if the tippen delta is on show as well some shots of that would be awesome too :)

 

Oh BTW I keep forgetting to mention this, but all 3 of those AC City car prototypes survive :) but sadly they are no longer in the UK

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