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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...


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Useful* fact: whichever Invacar it is that's held by the Lakeland Motor Museum (plates not visible alas), is fitted with a steering wheel. Not sure how the controls work on that one.

 

ahh that will be RPF19R luckily I have pictures of that with its plate visible :)

 

indeed iv noticed it has a steering wheel, but with some extra hand control, im not sure if its for brakes or for acceleration (or both?)

 

post-25614-0-97654600-1551044354_thumb.jpg
 
 

 

IIRC the one in Glasgow Transport Museum also has a steering wheel.

 

indeed, GPG721K the oldest known surviving Model 70 :)

 

has regular car controls, (ie steering wheel, with brake and acceleration pedals)

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/32723-wanted-an-invacar-ac-model-70-and-general-ramble-thread-with-survivors-list-on-page-26-and-thread-index-on-page-1/?p=1758943

 

884444570c8dda02df8945b23ea3e6ae.jpg

 

im really curious what the millage is/if its ever been used given it still has a "running in" sticker... (also curious about its general story, being untaxed since 1978!)

 

 

you can also see the 2 different types of steering wheel control bellow :)

 

post-25614-0-84340500-1545150595_thumb.png
post-25614-0-77189200-1548065867_thumb.jpg

 

(its worth remembering you could get every control scheme with or without foot pedals, so you could have a steering wheel config entirely controlled by your hands, or a tiller configuration entirely controlled by your feet, with the tiller JUST for steering :) )

 

which is how I believe this one has been setup

 

post-25614-0-09362200-1548949853_thumb.jpg

 

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That lever to the right if the steering wheel is liable to be the brakes / throttle. Pull to go faster, push away to stop.

 

They fitted that system to some normal cars that were adapted for disabled drivers.

 

ah cool :)

 

yeah i had seen it on normal cars too but just couldn't recall how it functioned :)

 

(Also not 100% sure on the tiller one above, pretty sure the 3 pedals are for parking brake, foot brake and acceleration, but i do see a cable coming off the tiller that might be a throttle cable?)

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I know nothing about buses but I saw a poor condition "London bus" on a low laoder yesterday. It was either dirty white or a dull grey colour and looked like it had half the upper deck removed. Like how a midtop van would look next to a high top of the high top were the norm.

Didn't spot the reg, sorry.

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aye a lot of Routemasters have been butchered and converted to open top sadly

 

im always weary of ones converted to Open top by non London Transport people, because the Routemaster is a monocoque design, so if you just go lopping the roof off it might lead to structural issues

 

granted iv not heard of any Open top RMs imploding LOL

 

 

on the Invacar front, now that iv got a couple sites that can look up NI reg plates, I decided to see, where the NI Model 70s done in batches or on a 1 off basis, and it looks like 1 one off basis, as Reg plates before and after SOI7570 and WOI654 are not Model 70s

 

I really do want to see the vin/lubrication plate on one of these NI Model 70s to see what the actual Date of manufacture is, because we know by the chassis numbers there all very Late Model 70s,

 

but I have a feeling they where registered a good few months or couple years after they where built (aka some good ol late registration madness :) ) because the NI Model 70s only 10s of cars away from the last known UK Model 70s, but have date of registrations either months or a year or 2 ahead, and I doubt it really took them 2 years to build 10s of Model 70s

 

(For example VES108S, Date of first registration is 13 Feb 1978, and its xx20, SOI7570 is xx55, but has a date of first registration of 1st December 1978, I doubt it really took them almost an entire year to build 35 cars, so I have a feeling SOI7570 may have sat around for a while before being registered in NI)

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Not sure how I missed this

 

but I just noticed, WOO848S, is 8919, and VES108S is 8920, 2 consecutive invacars! :)

 

but sadly the last Invacars where a mess in terms of registration to vin plate (ie they where not done in sequence, so VES108Ss original reg number is probably not WOO849S probably, esp as that one comes back as an Invacar From 8th march 1978, sadly untaxed since before Y2K so i cant look it up for its VIN)

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aye a lot of Routemasters have been butchered and converted to open top sadly

 

im always weary of ones converted to Open top by non London Transport people, because the Routemaster is a monocoque design, so if you just go lopping the roof off it might lead to structural issues

 

granted iv not heard of any Open top RMs imploding LOL

 

 

on the Invacar front, now that iv got a couple sites that can look up NI reg plates, I decided to see, where the NI Model 70s done in batches or on a 1 off basis, and it looks like 1 one off basis, as Reg plates before and after SOI7570 and WOI654 are not Model 70s

 

I really do want to see the Chassis plate on one of these NI Model 70s to see what the actual Date of manufacture is, because we know by the chassis numbers there all very Late Model 70s,

 

but I have a feeling they where registered a good few months or couple years after they where built (aka some good ol late registration madness :) ) because the NI Model 70s only 10s of cars away from the last known UK Model 70s, but have date of registrations either months or a year or 2 ahead, and I doubt it really took them 2 years to build 10s of Model 70s

 

(For example VES108S, Date of first registration is 13 Feb 1978, and its 8920, SOI7570 is 8955, but has a date of first registration of 1st December 1978, I doubt it really took them almost an entire year to build 35 cars, so I have a feeling SOI7570 may have sat around for a while before being registered in NI)

It must have had some kind of roof improvised because it wasn't open top, but looked like it may have been in the past.

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another Electric invalid carriage has cropped up for sale https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1092322

 

must be the season for them or something!

 

I do wonder why its been given an age related plate when in the photos it seems to be wearing something else if not the orignial? (maybe its been plate raped and stuck on retention as the original? plate does not show up on the DVLA)

 

heres a link to the first one that popped up for sale  https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1083987

 

what are the chances of that 2 harding electric ICs for sale at the same time LOL :)

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Well got another "mystery" parcel in my name today

 

only this time once I opened it and saw the contents I knew exactly what it was/who it was from :) (although I had a good idea before hand going by the weight of it LOL )

 

post-25614-0-60800500-1553338286_thumb.jpg

 

its the Philips SL lamp Skizzer very kindly offered me in this post :)http://autoshite.com/topic/33047-the-grumpy-thread/page-2947?do=findComment&comment=1746870

 

(shown next to TWC mug full of 10 year old iPhones for size comparison  :mrgreen: )

 

im very happy thats its arrived and arrived intact, he did an awesome packing job, much better than most ebay sellers iv bought SL lamps off of in the past!

 

post-25614-0-36816700-1553338722_thumb.jpg

 

here it is lit up :)

 

post-25614-0-73878900-1553338740_thumb.jpg

 

im very happy to have a first generation Philips SL lamp in my collection once more and im very thankful to Skizzer for donating it to me and my collection  :)

 

for those wondering it was manufactured in August 1985, so literally mid 1980s as Skizzer says :)

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on the Invacar front, now that iv got a couple sites that can look up NI reg plates, I decided to see, where the NI Model 70s done in batches or on a 1 off basis, and it looks like 1 one off basis, as Reg plates before and after SOI7570 and WOI654 are not Model 70s

 

I really do want to see the vin/lubrication plate on one of these NI Model 70s to see what the actual Date of manufacture is, because we know by the chassis numbers there all very Late Model 70s,

 

but I have a feeling they where registered a good few months or couple years after they where built (aka some good ol late registration madness :) ) because the NI Model 70s only 10s of cars away from the last known UK Model 70s, but have date of registrations either months or a year or 2 ahead, and I doubt it really took them 2 years to build 10s of Model 70s

 

(For example VES108S, Date of first registration is 13 Feb 1978, and its 8920, SOI7570 is 8955, but has a date of first registration of 1st December 1978, I doubt it really took them almost an entire year to build 35 cars, so I have a feeling SOI7570 may have sat around for a while before being registered in NI)

 

I've sent an email to my semi-contact over at the Ulster Transport Museum, to see if I can beg permission to poke around a bit on WOI654 - I'd like to take a proper image of both the VIN plate in the cabin and also the chassis number, to add to the records being built up here. I'm hopeful that permission will be granted, since it's a bona fide academic research project and I hold longstanding museum membership.

 

Hi ****,

 
I'm hoping you might be able to provide me with contact details for a member of staff in the Ulster Transport Museum who deals with requests concerning specific vehicles in the museum's collection.
 
One of the exhibits in the Car Gallery is a 1980 AC Model 70 (Invacar), currently carrying the non-standard registration mark RDS 1 TW, but believed to be originally registered in Belfast as WOI654.
 
I have been in correspondence with an Invacar enthusiast through an online car forum who is researching the history of the Model 70, and he has reason to believe that some of the very last examples of the Model 70 were built separately for Northern Ireland users, several years after batch production officially ceased in 1978.
 
As this individual is based in England, I have offered to make enquiries on his behalf as a local enthusiast and as a member of NMNI. He has advised that if I could provide details of the vehicle's VIN plate and chassis number, this would enable him to cross-reference against the factory records now held by the Invacar Register's archivist, and determine whether the build date of this particular car post-dates the last known production run.
 
I'm not sure whether you would have this data to hand through the museum's records, or whether it would be possible for me to schedule a date and time to inspect the vehicle itself along with a member of staff (which would require access to the cabin of the car, and take no longer than a few minutes).
 
Thanking you in anticipation of a reply,
 
DATSUNCOG

 

Out of interest, where should the chassis number be located on a late Model 70? At least the VIN plate is easy to find!

 

It's been very interesting to learn that NI seems to have had a different system for registration (possibly because it's such a small place?) - and it would be helpful to find out whether the NI cars were either re-registered cars brought over from the GB-registered batches, or brought over unregistered and stored for a few years in Belfast, or built to order from parts (maybe locally?) after Model 70 production ceased.

 

I'm also intrigued to learn that at least one or two were in use in the Republic of Ireland too; they're fairly distinctive wee things so I'm sure those Irish Shiters who have commented upthread are quite correct in their recollections.

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Awesome stuff! many thanks for going out of your way for me/the invacar, will be very interesting to see what your able to dig up :)

 

the chassis number of a Model 70 should be here on the suspension top mount normally, stamped directly in the metal, so if its a bit dirty, you might need to scrub at it a bit, but its worth having a general look around if its not there, (I think KPL139P specifically, had her chassis number in a different location up front but thats the exception to the rule I think)

 

post-25614-0-28439800-1553684153_thumb.jpg

 

and as you have seen the VIN plate inside the cabin, its the VIN plate that will have the date of manufacture on it :)

 

and yeah on the registration thing, on the car look up websites, I can look up pretty much any NI Registration, even if the car has not existed for 30+ years

 

but I cant do the same for a British car, even if it still shows up on the DVLA site

 

(on Total car check, the TAX/MOT information return "No data available" for the NI Model 70s, rather then not taxed/yes taxed)

 

so it seems these websites might be using a different database they acquired at some point for NI cars?

 

 

 

for reference:

 

heres a close up of the chassis number location on the actual chassis 

 

post-21417-0-99263000-1552153381.jpg

 

and a close up the VIN plate in the cabin :)

 

post-25614-0-02945500-1541797332_thumb.png
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I'm heading up to Lakeland Motor Museum in a couple of weeks. Anything you'd like to know about that one?

 

oh thanks for the heads up much appreciated  :)

 

a shot of its controls would be pretty cool especially given its unusual steering wheel layout, and maybe one of its VIN plate inside the cabin to verify its details match up with what iv got recorded currently? :)

 

if the tippen delta is on show as well some shots of that would be awesome too :)

 

Oh BTW I keep forgetting to mention this, but all 3 of those AC City car prototypes survive :) but sadly they are no longer in the UK

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Grand job, that shouldn't be too hard to find then - on my last visit, I established that the front hatch/bonnet is unlocked anyway, so I'd like to think I'll be able to find the chassis number on the front suspension mount without much hassle... Just frustrating that the VIN plate is so hard to see from outside the car, and the handle's missing.

But! I'll do my darndest, as it's an interesting little puzzle and it'd be good to establish whether some of the NI Model 70s have indeed some divergence from the majority of Model 70s.

Behind WOI in the Transport Gallery, there's a (very out of date) info board about disabled drivers in Northern Ireland - and, interestingly, it seems that the organisation mentioned, the Disabled Drivers' Association (NI) is still going strong, with a website and Facebook page.

https://acolly7018.wixsite.com/mysite

https://www.facebook.com/DisabledDriversNI/

I'd hoped that maybe their gallery archives might have some Model 70 pics, but sadly not - although it does have this rather charming piece of Super8 film footage from the late 1950s, which I think may have also popped up on Dollywobbler's thread a year or so back.

I daresay that some of their committee members might have more knowledge of how the old system for procuring an invalid carriage used to operate in Northern Ireland?

EDIT: Also interesting that the all the Tippen/Invacar examples in the footage here seem to be on GB issued plates (mainly London) - none seem to be NI registered. But the footage was definitely shot in Belfast, as the rally starts out the front of the City Hall onto Donegall Square East and I can see that from where I'm currently sitting...

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ah cool that the front service hatch is unlocked :) as mentioned earlier, although their date of manufacture is currently unknown, we do know from the VIN numbers reported online via my the website kindly linked to me, that they are quite late and are later then any known UK cars (by a few tens of cars)

 

my current theory is that they where normal Model 70s that sat around for a while for some reason

 

 

 

but they would still be notable for being later then any known surviving UK Model 70s :)

 

I remember you said you think you may have seen 9/77 on WOI654's VIN plate, this is one of the things that makes me think they sat around for a couple years before being registered in Northern Ireland,

 

TPE409S is *redacted* (the latest surviving mainland AC Model 70 in my personal list), UOI4719 is *redacted* and WOI654 is *redacted*, and the reason this is important is because I THINK with AC Model 70s if the starting letter is the same then they where part of the same batch so it would indicate all these cars are part of the same batch/made at roughly the same time, but obviously WOI654 was registered at least, much later then TPE409S/*redacted*

 

so yeah if that all makes sense, thats why I think they may be "normal" Model 70s that sat around for a while before being registered in NI,

 

but then the question becomes, where they Ex UK cars, or did they sit around in the UK with no Reg for a while, or where they made and immediately shipped to NI where they then sat before being registered? so many questions!  :mrgreen: (trying to explain my thoughts without sounding too rambley is hard LOL)

 

 

 

very cool on the video :)

 

indeed I think it was shared on DWs thread

 

but iv only just now sat down and watched, tis very cool to see all the different types in action :)

 

I think it must be a bit later than 1959, since the Mk12 came out in 1960 and theres a few of those in the video :).

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Oh shush. It's on the to do list...

 

Sadly, I know the Lakeland Motor Museum Invacar is currently squeezed into a corner. I have asked it if could be moved for when I go up, but they are not able to promise that (which is fair enough. I'm just a random bloke and I imagine it's a faff to get out). 

 

your the one complaining of growly crunchy noises not me  :mrgreen:

 

maybe it would help if you told them its to aid in photos for another random bloke on the internet who is slightly* enthusiastic about the things?  :mrgreen:

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so iv been wanting to verify the actual registration of Q231PVL, I know stuart told me that D249 is MPH736P, because MPH735P is D248, but something about the whole thing did not quite sit right with me (esp given the untaxed since 1980s thing), im not saying anything against stuart, but its easy for people to make mistakes or get things wrong (iv not been able to 100% verify MPH735P either, supposedly its the one the queen stood next to, but no registration plates for me to verify such)
 
so I decided to do a bit of number plate chassis number triangulation via the DVLA checker and the number plate to VIN number website kindly provided to me  :)
 
first off it looks like AC Model 70s of the MPH-P range, ranged from MPH611P to MPH810P in one big block so 199 cars (April 1976 to June 1976) well MPH811P does not turn up anything so it might be a Model 70, but i cant say for sure
 
now focusing on the 700-800 range, I found a few that where last taxed after Y2K, which enabled me to look up their chassis numbers
 
MPH725P D215
 
MPH800P D290
 

MPH810P D300

 

well this tells us some valuable information!

 

first off that AC Model 70 Number plates did go up in sync with their chassis numbers, and that with all this info, we can calculate that (Q231PVL) D249 would be MPH759P, which looking it up has a Last taxed date of 1st June 1997! which fits much better to when it was Q plated :)

 

so Stuart was RIGHT in that it was an MPH-P car he was just wrong which one it was it looks like

 

if someone could run a Proper HPI check on MPH759P that would be awesome :)

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On 3/28/2019 at 8:05 AM, busmansholiday said:

Trust you're kept Q231's owner in the loop.

 

yeah, not yet sent him a message as I discovered all of the above at litreally 12:30AM (because what DID you expect me to be doing at that time?  :mrgreen: )

 

but sometime today I will message him, just gotta figure out how to word it properly as not to confuse him.

 

(when I first found out may have been MPH736P and told him such, I did say I still need to run a proper HPI check to properly verify it, but he sent off for the V62 pretty much straight away, whoops! im guessing it would just get rejected right?)

 

 

 

on the Model 70 number plate stuff, iv also been looking up UPB-M AC Model 70s due to some "top secrete" information passed to me by someone of this forum

 

and they are a slightly weird bunch, they range from UPB254M to UPB449M

 

however the weird things are

 

UPB421M is a Jenson?!

 

and UPB427M is an Invacar, with March 13, 1980! as a date of first registration, but year of manufacture as 1973, like the rest of the UPB-M AC Model 70s

 

dunno wtf went on there, as the rest of that block are AC Model 70s...

 

sadly most of the UPB-M cars have been untaxed since long before Y2K so iv not been able to look them up for chassis numbers

 

the only UPB-M car I have been able to look up, is good old UPB262M

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small update on Q231PVL

 

 

he said yeah the DVLA rejected the V62 for MPH736P, and asked for the real number, and asked him why did he put MPH736P there.

 

(he also got a bit ahead of himself and already had plates made up for MPH736P, whoops! so if anyone does happen to own MPH736P and needs a set of plates i can give you his contact details  :mrgreen: )

 

so I think he is going to send off for MPH759P, I hope its the correct one this time!

 

as explained above, I think its that one, but I cant 100% concrete verify this sadly (hence why I want someone to run a HPI check on MPH759P), and Iv said this to him and explained how I got to MPH759P, hopefully it makes sense to him

 

I dont want him to think im messing him around or something (bloody anxiety makes it 100x more difficult then this should be)

 

 

on that note he said he was made aware of another one on an M plate somewhere in Sheffield, Shiregreen, and that once he gets his going he will go have a look at it for me :) , (he did not say what it was, but if its an M plate, then its either a Model 70 or a Tippen Delta)

 

 

 

also another oddity here...

 

post-25614-0-92096900-1553794713_thumb.png

 

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I think the DVLA mostly made Invacar records up ;-).

 

I can see why you'd worry about Q plate man thinking you are messing him about - but seriously, he didn't have a clue about the original plate until you got involved, so cut yourself some slack! You've also been straight enough to tell him the mistake (and it was a very honest mistake) too. All good.

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