invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[keef]

5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

the DVLA seemingly create a new vehicle entry entirely for that new registration number if that makes sense

Very little of what DVLA does makes sense to me. LOL!

It's 2020, so yes, what you need to do is fill out a form and send it to us (in the post) with a CHEQUE. We haven't figured out email or online applications yet, well apart from taking your money for road tax. We like to make things easy for the general public.

[Eyersey1234]

I was surprised the DVLA still take cheques, when I sent off for my digital tachograph card I had to get a postal order as haven't had a cheque book for a few years

[keef]

2 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I was surprised the DVLA still take cheques, when I sent off for my digital tachograph card I had to get a postal order as haven't had a cheque book for a few years

You and most of the rest of us. I do still get the occasional cheque, but I scan that and pay it in online, so I would imagine DVLA do the same,. Far easier and more efficient to do bank transfers, but we are talking DVLA here.

[LightBulbFun]

58 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I was surprised the DVLA still take cheques, when I sent off for my digital tachograph card I had to get a postal order as haven't had a cheque book for a few years

im surprised that they ONLY take cheques/postal orders still in 2020

had to get my bank to send me a cheque book, so I could write a cheque for the V62 I have sent off for my Model 64 

honestly wonder why you cant just do it all online... I wonder if its an "effort" thing ie by making it cheque/postal/handwritten it may be a way to deter lazy people from applying for Logbooks for vehicles they dont actually own?

oh its the DVLA who am I kidding!

[Zelandeth]

The US State Department are even more backwards!

They accept cash or credit card in person, but the only remote options are a banker's draft (which our bank hasn't done in about a decade) or a postal money order.  No cheques, no online card payment system etc...

Makes renewing a US passport from the UK a pain!

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

The US State Department are even more backwards!

They accept cash or credit card in person, but the only remote options are a banker's draft (which our bank hasn't done in about a decade) or a postal money order.  No cheques, no online card payment system etc...

Makes renewing a US passport from the UK a pain!

I was thinking to myself, "thank god all this isn't all based in the US" 

as I understand their equivalent of the DVLA/car registration etc etc is even worse than here LOL

(pretty much every US chap iv spoken to has been quite surprised how plates stay with a car for life here, and that I can look up a cars registration plate on a 1st party government tool and easily pull up info about it etc)

[LightBulbFun]

On 2/12/2020 at 2:43 PM, barrett said:

807 BP?

I think I have worked out that it's the Harper that was styled by Spike Rhiando. Still definitely the best invalid carriage out there.

so finally got round to checking out Ye olde British pathe videos and indeed the Harper Mk6's featured don't have those side vents or the teddy/bunny ears,

 

I also spotted several Pre Mk6 harpers (Mk4s?) on BPx plates in the videos I checked out so the above Mk6 in @barrett must be a very early one regardless  (I have checked quite a number of registrations that I could spot through the DVLA checker sadly none show up still)

(I do wonder what was/happened to the Harper Mk5? LOL)

(keep in mind that surry registrations would have only gone up to PL back then)

also spotted bonus Invacar Mk10A? in the background

[overrun]

Your man Dezza Prezza Cobb features on one of the Look at Life (iirc) videos. One about scramblers.

[LightBulbFun]

26 minutes ago, overrun said:

Your man Dezza Prezza Cobb features on one of the Look at Life (iirc) videos. One about scramblers.

Derry Preston cobb  

and yah I have seen that video, I do wish they showed more of the invacar side of things, you can spot a Mk12 in the background but thats it sadly apart from what Derry drives as you mention

which is EHJ19, his slightly* modified invacar new era, good for 70Mph apparently!

[LightBulbFun]

had my 31st lesson today  

happy to report its continuing to go well, hopefully I can keep up the consistency! 

did a bit more driving in different areas this lesson as my instructor wanted to get some more just driving around town experience under my belt, but next lesson should return to "regularly scheduled" programing of getting 1 or a few maneuvers in there as well

(I also suspect this lesson went a bit differently, because pretty early on we ran into traffic cuz of road works, it did make me wonder, a driving Lesson is 2 hours for me, but a driving test is only about 40 minutes, what would happen if during your test your just stuck in traffic for 40 minutes LOL)

next lesson is on tuesday  

[keef]

Interesting to note the v888 form has changed and now gives the registered keeper the chance to obtain information foc.

DVLA wrote back to me saying they had no record of ROL471M, so I have pointed them to the private plate and sent the form back again. Now I don't know if this indicates they don't check on "the other system" we know they have or if there is no record of the originalal plate. I have also contacted Birmingham Records Office, to see if they have a copy of ROL471M's registration details.

I assume DVLA would issue a "new" plate if I wanted to transfer the private one or perhaps the person dealing with that application would use a different procedure to the one processing the v888?

[Mally]

Can help if you get stuck in traffic on your test.

They are tied to a schedule, and have to rush through/skip bits sometimes.

They can suss out your ability quite quickly.

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, keef said:

Interesting to note the v888 form has changed and now gives the registered keeper the chance to obtain information foc.

DVLA wrote back to me saying they had no record of ROL471M, so I have pointed them to the private plate and sent the form back again. Now I don't know if this indicates they don't check on "the other system" we know they have or if there is no record of the originalal plate. I have also contacted Birmingham Records Office, to see if they have a copy of ROL471M's registration details.

I assume DVLA would issue a "new" plate if I wanted to transfer the private one or perhaps the person dealing with that application would use a different procedure to the one processing the v888?

Yah according to my tool "KRW794" has been that Maxi's only plate, or more accurately since the computerised records began or that still exist

(we do know that the DVLA did archive some whole vehicles, so perhaps early plate history was one of those things archived to free up space in the 1980s or 1990s when ever they did this mythical freeing up of computer space)

also do you know when it gained KRW794? who knows how plate transfers worked back in the pre DVLC days perhaps it was like with keepers on a buff logbook, where that info was not transferred over when put on the DVLA computer system and you got the whole "such and such keepers since such and such date" on the logbook

(I also noticed KRW794 comes back as first registered in April 1977, so that might be adding to the strangeness, as thats probably the date it was stuck on the computer system)

 

indeed, if you transferred KRW794 off now, you would just get an age related plate, although if you can prove to them ROL471M was your vehicles original plate you might be able to get them to issue it to your vehicle

interesting that the V888 is free now, not too surprised by that, GDPR has seriously ruined the V888 and the whole "previous keeper" thing on the V5

id send one off for REV, but I know the details of all 3 of her previous keepers  

 

BTW speaking of registrations, its fun to note that all the NI Model 70's always have the year of registration also down as their year of mfg

so that means CXI936 which is the latest registered Model 70 I can find, registered 20-04-1983 also has its year of Mfg down as 1983! LOL, which means even after age related plates where introduced it would likely get a Y suffix plate if you were to re-register it with a british plate LOL (sadly not quite "new" enough for a prefix plate that would be whacky!)

 

although obviously if I was dealing with such a situation (and I had to give up the NI plate), id make sure the year of Mfg is corrected to the actual year of mfg for that vehicle!

 

I do wonder about these NI Model 70's because they show up in most 3rd party tools, but (apart from LOI6831 which we suspect is a special case) wont show up on the DVLA checker itself for some reason, I do wonder what would happen if you V62ed one, or even still had the V5 for one etc

I guess we will find out if WOI654 GIG4834 (ex WOI4001) or SOI7570 ever become active again (the 3 known surviving NI Model 70's)

 

and finally a bit of DVLA checker fun, sometimes when I close my browser with a result still showing then open it the next day it doesn't quite load properly, and interestingly it gives me a Square format plate LOL (regardless of reg number length im pretty sure, its just a coincidence I had a short reg opened)

 

3 hours ago, Mally said:

Can help if you get stuck in traffic on your test.

They are tied to a schedule, and have to rush through/skip bits sometimes.

They can suss out your ability quite quickly.

interesting that they do/can skip over things, (im still wondering where they plan to do the emergency stop! LOL)

I was wondering about that, because as mentioned, even in my 2 hour lessons due to traffic constraints etc we sometimes have to skip doing a manoeuvre or 2

so I have been wondering how it works with the much shorter driving tests! (at least with the driving test it would start in location and end in location and I would not have to drive to location and back home like I do in my lessons)

[keef]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

Yah according to my tool "KRW794" has been that Maxi's only plate, or more accurately since the computerised records began or that still exist

(we do know that the DVLA did archive some whole vehicles, so perhaps early plate history was one of those things archived to free up space in the 1980s or 1990s when ever they did this mythical freeing up of computer space)

also do you know when it gained KRW794? who knows how plate transfers worked back in the pre DVLC days perhaps it was like with keepers on a buff logbook, where that info was not transferred over when put on the DVLA computer system and you got the whole "such and such keepers since such and such date" on the logbook

(I also noticed KRW794 comes back as first registered in April 1977, so that might be adding to the strangeness, as thats probably the date it was stuck on the computer system)

indeed, if you transferred KRW794 off now, you would just get an age related plate, although if you can prove to them ROL471M was your vehicles original plate you might be able to get them to issue it to your vehicle

interesting that the V888 is free now, not too surprised by that, GDPR has seriously ruined the V888 and the whole "previous keeper" thing on the V5

id send one off for REV, but I know the details of all 3 of her previous keepers  

I just thought a V888 might throw up extra info.

I would of thought the archive would be searched on receipt of a V888, but I don't know how the system works.

No idea when ROL471M got KRW794, but I tend to think it was really early in her life. As everything I have mentions KRW.

I was wondering if 1977 was the date Kory got her private plate. I didn't think it might be the date she was computerfied!

Yes, it would be nice to have DVLA proof or proof that DVLA would except that ROL471M was Kory's original number.

V888 is now two parts and only free for present keeper.

I know the previous keepers on Kory, actually only two, although first keeper registered as a business, so it counts/shows up as three, but the first registered date bugs me and i'd like to get to the bottom of it.  

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, keef said:

I just thought a V888 might throw up extra info.

I would of thought the archive would be searched on receipt of a V888, but I don't know how the system works.

yeah, V888 can be a bit hit and miss, 

it was relatively useful for Frazer when I told him VES108S was actually XEV88S and he wanted proof from the DVLA for himself 

and they told him what I told him!, but it lost its plate in 1998 so it was a relatively "recent" event

 

5 minutes ago, keef said:

No idea when ROL471M got KRW794, but I tend to think it was really early in her life. As everything I have mentions KRW.

 yeah if it was done before October 1st 1974, then it may have never been done through the DVLA (well DVLC back then!)

so the only record of its change may be in the registry office for where the plate change took place 

9 minutes ago, keef said:

Yes, it would be nice to have DVLA proof or proof that DVLA would except that ROL471M was Kory's original number.

that rustproofing thing you have is good evidence, do you happen to also have any tax disks or such as well showing ROL471M? (or even better yet a buff logbook?)

10 minutes ago, keef said:

but the first registered date bugs me and i'd like to get to the bottom of it.

yeah im pretty positive that date is just when it was computerized, it should really show the date of first registration as when it actually was first registered as according to its buff logbook, but they don't always

I have seen quite a few Invalid vehicles like that as well!

 

 

 

if you have sufficient evidence its (relatively!) easy enough to get the date of first registration corrected if you wish to do so   a buff logbook is good evidence for doing something like that

speaking of on the V5 does it say something like "3 previous keepers since March 1977" ?that would be further proof its just the date it was computerized/stuck on the DVLC system

[keef]

58 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah if it was done before October 1st 1974, then it may have never been done through the DVLA (well DVLC back then!)

that rustproofing thing you have is good evidence, do you happen to also have any tax disks or such as well showing ROL471M? (or even better yet a buff logbook?)

yeah im pretty positive that date is just when it was computerized, it should really show the date of first registration as when it actually was first registered as according to its buff logbook, but they don't alway

if you have sufficient evidence its (relatively!) easy enough to get the date of first registration corrected if you wish to do so   a buff logbook is good evidence for doing something like that

speaking of on the V5 does it say something like "3 previous keepers since March 1977" ?that would be further proof its just the date it was computerized/stuck on the DVLC system

We will see what the Birmingham records say.

No buff logbook and only tax discs show KRW794.

It annoyed me when they wouldn't do a FoI request on the original date of registration. They could easily have said that is the date it was put on computer.

It's not really important to get the date changed, it just bugs me when it is glaringly wrong!

I don't think it gives previous keeper info on logbooks now, but will check.

V5 in previous owner's name shows No of former keepers as 2. Last change of owner 30/09/1996.

Current V5C shows no of former keepers 3.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, keef said:

It annoyed me when they wouldn't do a FoI request on the original date of registration. They could easily have said that is the date it was put on computer.

you sent off a FOI? got a link to it?

1 hour ago, keef said:

I don't think it gives previous keeper info on logbooks now, but will check.

V5 in previous owner's name shows No of former keepers as 2. Last change of owner 30/09/1996.

Current V5C shows no of former keepers 3.

interesting, you can see here in this V5 for a Morris minor (not mine! just a picture I found via the ebay tat thread)

where it says "No of former keepers 4 since Apr 1977" since the keeper count from the buff logbook was not always transfered over so they stuck that there to let any new keepers know it may have had more keepers before that date

im not 100% sure if they still have that on newer V5s for the same vehicle or not, so it may be worth checking any older V5's you have

[keef]

7 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

you sent off a FOI? got a link to it?

where it says "No of former keepers 4 since Apr 1977" since the keeper count from the buff logbook was not always transfered over so they stuck that there to let any new keepers know it may have had more keepers before that date

im not 100% sure if they still have that on newer V5s for the same vehicle or not, so it may be worth checking any older V5's you have

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/record_of_austin_maxi_krw794

That's definately all the info that was on the V5 when I bought her and on the new V5C.

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, keef said:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/record_of_austin_maxi_krw794

That's definately all the info that was on the V5 when I bought her and on the new V5C.

interesting  

BTW I was looking at that collection of tax disks, I cant tell from the photo but does the 1978 disk have KRW794 on it?

the reason I ask is that tax disk would of originally been issued in February 1977 for it to expire in 1978, which predates its registration with the DVLA on the 25th of march 1977. so if its for KRW794 that would tell us for sure that this maxi gained its private plate before it was computerrised/added to the DVLA system

so as far as the DVLA knows its the only plate the car has ever had

[keef]

The whole DVLA system is a joke. As you can see they never answered my questions or referred the FoI request to the IA as I requested.

I think the 1978 disc is soo sun bleached there is no legible index mark, but I will double check the original.

I assumed the DVLA would have records of what plate was issued to what vehicle. I understand that before computer records locating that info might be a pain, but I bet they could access the info for say a parking ticket claim.

 

[quicksilver]

You need to see this: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151875-kit-bashed-invacar/

Not a bad effort considering the small scale and how different a Model 70 is from the Reliant Regal he based the model on.

[Mrs6C]

21 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

You need to see this: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151875-kit-bashed-invacar/

Not a bad effort considering the small scale and how different a Model 70 is from the Reliant Regal he based the model on.

An excellent factual response to the OP from your good self, putting to bed the myths!

[quicksilver]

3 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

An excellent factual response to the OP from your good self, putting to bed the myths!

I felt I needed to get in and dispel the myths before that old chestnut about them being banned gets repeated yet again and another group of people take it to be true. It's amazing and quite worrying really how much misinformation there is about invalid carriages and how many people still quote it as fact.

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

You need to see this: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151875-kit-bashed-invacar/

Not a bad effort considering the small scale and how different a Model 70 is from the Reliant Regal he based the model on.

hah thats very cool yeah  (I wonder when he made it? as a good few pages back in this thread, and I think in the miniature tat thread as well, was mention of a home made 1/76 scale Model 70 somewhere)

and as @Mrs6C says good response  nice to see the correct info propagate out there, makes me feel like the research I have done in this thread is slowly paying off

 

1 minute ago, quicksilver said:

I felt I needed to get in and dispel the myths before that old chestnut about them being banned gets repeated yet again and another group of people take it to be true. It's amazing and quite worrying really how much misinformation there is about invalid carriages and how many people still quote it as fact.

indeed, good to nip it in the bud as they say! indeed its one of the many things that I found/find fascinating about invalid vehicles, one of the few once common (and common for a long time) vehicles where there is (or was if your reading this thread ) just so little factual information about them out there!

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of private Model 70's 

one thing Iv wondered about JNJ135L, is, is JNJ135L really JNJ135L or is it another Model 70 masquerading as it?

because in the one picture I have of it, its on 10 inch wheels with late wing mirrors, and although its hard to tell, im pretty sure it has a head liner/rollover bar

which would indicate it a Post March 1976 Model 70!

and also the registration plate to me always looked photoshopped to me, in fact for the longest of time I thought it was just a photoshop jobby to hide its ID for some reason, hence why it would not show up in the DVLA

(but then I discovered JNJ135L really was a Model 70 registration once I saw it showed up in 3rd party tools etc)

I wonder if this is the case that JNJ135L was subjected to approved repairer shenanigans what the potential legal trouble it might of gotten the government in had anyone noticed it!

(you hand your Model 70 to a approved repairer for servicing and you get a different Model 70 back! wouldn't really "matter" with a government owned one, but if it was a Model 70 you owned/bought privately It could!)

 

it could also be, the picture I have IS of a different Model 70 someone edited the plate to say JNJ135L!

I sadly dont have any other pictures of JNJ135L...

[LightBulbFun]

continuing on the whole Harper thing 

I was looking at this picture again, and notice the Stanley Mk7 in it, I had noticed before it was a Non Surrey plate, but only now did I check just where it was registered and as I thought came back as Devon 

also a rather late Stanley, xxxRTA (rather unfortunate reg there!) comes back as being from September 1963+ (sadly does not show up on the DVLA, the Invacar Mk12 NTW532C does tho )

also checked out the picture I have of a Stanley Mk7A chassis plate and interestingly it says "manufactured by the Stanley Engineering Co Ltd Exeter Devon"

I wonder where all Mk7's Devon registered? did production move at some point? 

(pretty much all Harper Mk1-6's I have seen have been Surrey registered but all Mk7's iv seen have been Devon, granted I have only see 3 pictures Mk7's I think! and only 2 of those had a registration plate sadly, and I have sadly not seen the chassis plate of a Mk1-Mk6 harper yet, im curious if those say stanley or harper on them and if they say Surrey or Devon)

(I know harper was based in Devon, but I don't know where invalid vehicle production took place after take over of stanley, I assume at the Stanley works going by the Surrey registration they have at least for the Mk1-6's!)

[keef]

Ah well: that's disappointing. Added to the previous reply from DVLA and the fact that the factory Maxi records wete destroyed in a fire, there doesn't seem to be any hope of establishing anything else about my ex RAF Maxi.

"I'm sorry to say the bulk of the records from the Birmingham Motor Taxation Office were destroyed in 1974. We have a few vehicle logbooks and licence renewals (with related correspondence) of vehicles registered in Birmingham in 1921, for the '0' series only. As far as is known, only these few records survived and were deposited here by a private donor."

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, keef said:

Ah well: that's disappointing. Added to the previous reply from DVLA and the fact that the factory Maxi records wete destroyed in a fire, there doesn't seem to be any hope of establishing anything else about my ex RAF Maxi.

"I'm sorry to say the bulk of the records from the Birmingham Motor Taxation Office were destroyed in 1974. We have a few vehicle logbooks and licence renewals (with related correspondence) of vehicles registered in Birmingham in 1921, for the '0' series only. As far as is known, only these few records survived and were deposited here by a private donor."

thats a shame, interesting that its 1974, as that's when everything went from Council offices to Central DVLC etc

I do wonder if the DVLA themselves have a copy/archive of all the council office registries or not? 

out of curiosity have you tried calling the DVLA on the number you get when vehicle details are not found, and asking the person on the other end what they get for ROL471M?

 

[keef]

No, not tried phoning. Like I said earlier I have added KRW794 to the form and sent it back. They might well have something on that that points to ROL471M. It would be interesting to know how the early records are now kept. Time was it was all on microfilm, but I doubt if DVLA have the full county records.

ROL471M was supplied to Dutton Forshaw (Bucks) Ltd, but oddly the receipt is from Cogger & Hawkins Ltd.

https://prewardealerships.wordpress.com/category/cogger-hawking/

Looks like DF took over C&G in 1972.

 It looks as if at least one other BL vehicle was registered at the same time as KRW. So maybe I should see if there are any records for ROL474M (presumably Morris 1300) or ROL477M - Morris 1800? Best find so far is this surviving MG 1800 :-

 

ROL 479M

✓ Taxed

Tax due: 
1 July 2020

Incorrect tax status?

✓ MOT

Expires: 
16 July 2020

Incorrect MOT status?

 

[LightBulbFun]

had my 32nd lesson today  

pleased to say things are continuing to go well and im consistent at that now  

did a bit more parallel parking, and also did a 3 point turn successfully (although that's not in the test anymore its good experience to have)

also saw the mustang from a couple lessons back, again so that was cool (I have also spotted plenty of other chod out and about especially in the more "suburban" areas!)

now I just have to go from consistent to improving beyond that, im still a little slow in places, so I want to improve there

the next lesson is on friday  

 

I also had a quick look at other available driving test slots the other day, and the next one after the 23rd of march 9:07AM was on the 21st of April 3:02PM, so I moved my test to that one

obviously I would  like things to happen sooner, but this way at least no matter what else I actually have a test booked at a time that both me and my instructor can actually do!

(once my instructor thinks Im definitely ready for a test then Ill double down on looking for a sooner slot)

(it is a bit worrying if the test does end up being that late/if I cant find any sooner slots, because that would not leave much time between the test and shitefest, and if I fail the test the first time im not sure id be able to take a 2nd test in time or such, guess I just have to hope I can pass first time!)