invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[keef]

8 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah is thats whats in your link? 

The FB link? That was the post about the cruise control.

[keef]

10 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah not seen that one before  

but thats a recent screen shot, I was asking Quicksilver, if he had any older screen shots from when the DVLA supposedly reported things differently  

I thought you were after "vehicle status" for vehicles reporting as "not taxed for on road use"?

My two examples are in Gaydon Museum. Most of the others appear to be the normal taxed or not taxed, so it's not a "museum" tag.

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

The chap selling the moulds on eBay is Alan Evans who set up Bamby Cars Ltd in Hull and produced this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamby_Cars

He set up Bambycars Limited with his daughter Emma later on in 2011 and seems to do a range of manufacturing and restoration of small fibreglass cars and replicars. The only Wikipedia entry I could find on this was the German one, but there is photo on it of his Peel 50 replicar:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambycars

A few years ago he was restoring a Raleigh Safety Seven:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/1469406@N21/discuss/72157624797560079/

Who knows, he might be the ideal chap to do a new set of moulds and make panels for the Model 70, if there was enough of a commercial demand.

Nearer to home, @Bfg is a guru on all things fibreglass and moulding and could perhaps advise further on how to do it on a more DIY basis.

The Bond Equipe and Bond 850 were made using fibreglass laid up by hand on gelcoat in big moulds, which were held in wooden frames:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpsmithbarney/8271384652/in/album-72157632170950728/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpsmithbarney/8270320373/in/album-72157632170950728/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpsmithbarney/8286348626/in/album-72157632170950728/

 

 

interesting stuff  theres a Bamby at the hammond microcar collection IIRC 

sadly on the Model 70 front, theres the rub, I doubt there's enough Commercial interest to start "production" of new bodies or repair sections, sadly, while there are many Model 70's that need them

we are still only taking about 10-20 cars here that need new bodies or panels, which sadly is not much on a commercial scale, and its why that Model 70 body was floating around for a while,  the previous owner kept saying "oh I want to use it to make molds"

but then eventually moved it on for lack of interest, because well sadly only about 80 Model 70's are known to still exist, with only 10-20 needing new bodies/panels it was a bit, how much demand did you really expect there to be! sadly

so I think anything on that front would have to be done on a very much DIY level, or something done at someone's expense/with goodwill, 

I did recommend to the current owner of the NOS Model 70 body, that he looks at getting it scanned in 3D, so if anything happens we at least have a detailed 3D model that could be used to reproduce something  

(anyone got a large 3D printer?! LOL)

 

13 minutes ago, keef said:

I thought you were after "vehicle status" for vehicles reporting as "not taxed for on road use"?

My two examples are in Gaydon Museum. Most of the others appear to be the normal taxed or not taxed, so it's not a "museum" tag.

ah I have plenty of examples of that, what I was saying is, that the DVLA checker did not always say that

the green box would report "Not taxed for on road use" but the Vehicle status entry would report something else

sadly this changed with the most recent update, for example see how in my quoted post XPD805 shows as taxed and due, and now it just shows the same as what's said in the green box that is "not taxed for on road use"

 

 

 

 

speaking of DIY check out whats showed up for sale  its the Model 64 based trailer!

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324053138563

someone here has to get it!, id get it myself, but I aint got anything to tow it with, nor a place to stick it sadly!

[Mr Pastry]

I was only briefly involved in fibreglass car panels, and the rule of thumb was that you had to sell 10 panels to cover the cost of the mould.  That's Ok for a small panel but it is prohibitive for a complete body for enthusiasts. 

You can make small panels on a DIY basis if you have an original to take a mould from.  It is satisfying, but very messy and the materials are not cheap. 

[keef]

Is that Gillingham, Kent or Dorset? I have been caught out with that one before - see my post in Shitely thread.

Gillingham, Kent is local to me. 

[LightBulbFun]

@Datsuncog check out this Facebook post that @dollywobbler tagged me in  

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=566890147204026&id=225424414683936

its very interesting to note as per the comment i left there, that it is british registried, certainly is looking like before the Model 70, all MoH/DHSS? invalid vehicles where british registried

it makes me wonder why suddenly with the Model 70 when sending them to NI, they decided to register them in NI, (tho for all I know maybe some early Model 70's where sent over with british registrations, id have no way of knowing sadly unless someone has a picture!)

again I wonder if its to do with the direct rule thing or not

[plasticvandan]

Mr LBF, watch this Reliant factory film from 1973,from about 9 mins on it shows the whole process of making a fibreglass body,from clay master,mould making to making bodies,this is the wet lay up process Reliant used from 1956 to 2001.

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

Mr LBF, watch this Reliant factory film from 1973,from about 9 mins on it shows the whole process of making a fibreglass body,from clay master,mould making to making bodies,this is the wet lay up process Reliant used from 1956 to 2001.

 

Oh very cool! that was very interesting to watch thanks for sharing that  

interesting, that as I wondered about, indeed they had the moulds on their side to make laying them up a bit easier! but its interesting that they went with a manual wet lay up like that, quite labour intensive!

twas very interesting just to see the whole production process of reliants, not something I have seen before!

 

its also interesting to see how they precut the fibreglass matting like that, I wonder how that was for Model 70 production, did Invacar get a special set of drawings/templates made up for them so they could cut out precut sheets for their wet lay up?

depends how AC did things exactly...

by dry spray process, does that mean they just sprayed the glass fibres onto/into gelcoat/resin? (so there would of been no fibreglass matting?)

or by sprayed chopped matt/dry layup they mean they laid up the fibreglass matting first (on top of the gel coat?) then sprayed the resin on?

im not sure tbh! the fact the comment says chopped matt makes me think the later actually,

so both Invacar and AC would have used pre cut matting Im guessing then?

[plasticvandan]

I'm not that clued up on sprayed chopped grp methods,Google will be your friend on that one,but the wet lay up reliant used was pretty typical of low volume manufacturers,Bond etc did it the same,Reliant just got much bigger and quicker at doing it by this time. In later years as money got tighter and resources worn out,the bodies would come out with seam lines where the different sections of the moulds met,which had to be sanded off.This however is not what I think is the case with the seam lines you talk about earlier,as they would have been irregular seams,a bit like excess casting flash on an airfix kit for example,and at £9k a pop,Reliant made sure they were sanded and filled,the model 70s with the seams seem to be part of the moulds,which is unusual as protrusions like that make it harder to extract the shell from the mould,however,it could have been deliberately designed in to giv some rigidity to the panel.Also,I'm almost certain that the DHSS would have had a company that held moulds,wether original or not,to make replacement sections for sending out to repairers,certainly after Invacar and AC stopped production,there were just too many on the road for replacement nose cones etc to have been taken from stock or scrapped vehicles,no doubt you will have a huge list of reasons why I'm wrong,but my gut instinct is that the cars with mould lines have replacement sections.

[LightBulbFun]

12 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

I'm not that clued up on sprayed chopped grp methods,Google will be your friend on that one,but the wet lay up reliant used was pretty typical of low volume manufacturers,Bond etc did it the same,Reliant just got much bigger and quicker at doing it by this time. In later years as money got tighter and resources worn out,the bodies would come out with seam lines where the different sections of the moulds met,which had to be sanded off.This however is not what I think is the case with the seam lines you talk about earlier,as they would have been irregular seams,a bit like excess casting flash on an airfix kit for example,and at £9k a pop,Reliant made sure they were sanded and filled

very interesting, I had wondered what reliant did regarding mould lines etc  

12 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

the model 70s with the seams seem to be part of the moulds,which is unusual as protrusions like that make it harder to extract the shell from the mould,however,it could have been deliberately designed in to giv some rigidity to the panel.Also,I'm almost certain that the DHSS would have had a company that held moulds,wether original or not,to make replacement sections for sending out to repairers,certainly after Invacar and AC stopped production,there were just too many on the road for replacement nose cones etc to have been taken from stock or scrapped vehicles,no doubt you will have a huge list of reasons why I'm wrong,but my gut instinct is that the cars with mould lines have replacement sections.

interesting  yeah @busmansholiday mentioned that the mould lines would make releasing the parts from the moulds harder, I have wondered about their role in the structural rigidity of things

and if fraser really should not have sanded his mould lines off!

On 6/12/2019 at 11:02 AM, busmansholiday said:

Are you sure they are moulding marks.

To me, they look like where separate panels were joined together to make a complete section.

When making moulds, it's far easier to have a smooth profile so it comes out of the former easily. Cutting a slot in the former to make that ridge makes no sense at all and simply makes thing more difficult.

Glass fibre technology progressed rapidly in the 60's, making larger moulds possible. I wonder who built the sections.

 

and indeed the question of "who made replacement body sections" after 1978 is one I have wondered about

Its known that Frank Tippen and sons made Model 70 mechanical bits until the 1990's for the DHSS but its not known if they made bodies as well

as for the mould lines being an indication of replacement sections, I do luckily have enough picture of then new Model 70's etc that show mould lines, so I dont think they are an artifact of a post production section or such

the body sections stocked by heywood where, front body section, the hard top, and the rear body section, plus doors and covers of course 

they did not stock individual repair panels or such, what you see in the bellow picture is more or less what you could get from the DHSS stores  

[trigger]

I've just seen this on Facebook. 

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, trigger said:

I've just seen this on Facebook. 

ohhh are there anymore details on that one? its one known to exist, but sadly who its with currently etc is unknown so it would be good to find out  

(I also see theres another Model 70 behind it, im curious which that is  ) 

initially I thought it may of been the same as this pic, but the container walls are different

(this one KPC538P for those wondering)

[trigger]

Apparently it belongs to the chap who posted the photo, I've asked what the one behind is for you too. 

[trigger]

The one behind is this one. 

[Dannyk]

Just seen this, you've probably already seen it though

[Bfg]

15 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Nearer to home, @Bfg is a guru on all things fibreglass and moulding and could perhaps advise further on how to do it on a more DIY basis.

Hello, sorry I haven't been following this thread but just had the notification that I'd been mentioned. 

In brief, I'd be glad to advise on anyone's fibreglassing issues. I had a business making panels kit cars at one time  (Burlington, Lomax, Falcon), but also work at home on a DIY basis.  I have some experience of other fibreglass cars such as the Reliant Kitten and Scimitar, and have used fibreglass for various other tasks (like making top boxes for motorcycle couriers).  I've built plywood with fibreglass boats from scratch and rebuilt others. I have replaced the balsa core on my own 30ft catamaran and made numerous other changes that required the use of fibreglass. And I've dealt with thousands of stress cracks in the gel-coat.  I have quite a few projects on the go right now (always !), so I'm not available to make things nor do repairs, but If I might help in any way - Do feel free to drop me a PM.  If whomever is local then I'll gladly meet up and talk them through how best to prepare damaged fibreglass and then demonstrate how to laminate and do repairs.

Glad to help, Pete.

   

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, trigger said:

Apparently it belongs to the chap who posted the photo, I've asked what the one behind is for you too. 

 

3 hours ago, trigger said:

The one behind is this one. 

oh very cool!

PHK714P and MPD536P where part of a large bundle of Model 70's owned by a chap who thought they were worth their weight in gold or something such, and tried selling them for £LOL, eventually he died, and his family got the lot, and sold them all off for more reasonable prices within a couple weeks

but it means they where scatter shotted across england/abroad and so where a lot ended up is sadly unknown, so im very happy to have finally found out the fate of 2 more  

(at least im pretty sure PHK714P/MPD536P where, ill have to double check tho, but regardless it was unknown where they currently where, so im happy to see them again  they where last spotted on ebay in 2010-2012)

feel free to let the guy know I exist, and that if he has any questions or issues or such that im happy to help assist him with them  (sadly its a closed group, Im contemplating joining, but I dont want my facebook feed to become too busy!)

it would be interesting to know what his plans are for them, hopefully nothing silly I hope!

 

17 minutes ago, Dannyk said:

Just seen this, you've probably already seen it though

ah thats another I have been trying to find to ID, showed up for sale in 2011-2012, but never seen again, I think that picture is from that auction, although, always worth asking if he knows of its whereabouts  

apart from its patchy bodywork colour, it has blue wheels and Mini countryman rear lights, that make it identifiable

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ac-invacar-model-70-microcar-bubble-274026558

[quicksilver]

On 1/26/2020 at 6:23 PM, LightBulbFun said:

found the group, but cant find the pictures, so if could ask for me that would be very much appricated  

I see someone on there also asked about the whole not taxed for on road use thing!,

@quicksilver I see your comment about how "not taxed for on road use" vehicles, used to show up as taxed with a renewal date in the middle of the month do you happen to have any screenshots or such of this or know when it changed from that to showing not taxed for on road use? since I started this thread at least, they have always shown as not taxed for on road use, although as mentioned I did notice on some that the tax status in the text fields would change from time to time from tax not due, to taxed and due and back to taxed, but others would show up as not taxed and never changed 

im curious what the "not taxed" not taxed for on road use vehicles would have shown up as, when supposedly not taxed for on road use vehicles would show up as taxed but ending mid month?

(sadly since the V5c DVLA checker update, not taxed for on road use vehicles, just say that in the text field too, so theres no way to check this "phantom" tax status anymore i dont think)

I'm afraid I don't have any screenshots from back then, but I do have some records of vehicles affected: SFC 609 and SFC 610 are a pair of AEC coaches at the Oxford Bus Museum and when I uploaded this photo of 609 (taken in 2002) it was recorded as taxed with a due date of 8 March 2015 and had been since at least 2011, but both are now "not taxed for on road use". 610 is cosmetically restored and on static display but 609 is a spares donor that clearly wasn't roadworthy then and has since been stripped to a bare chassis so it's never going to be again. Strangely, both had V5s issued in July 2015 for some reason.

Oxford SFC 609 by Adam Floyd, on Flickr

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

I'm afraid I don't have any screenshots from back then, but I do have some records of vehicles affected: SFC 609 and SFC 610 are a pair of AEC coaches at the Oxford Bus Museum and when I uploaded this photo of 609 (taken in 2002) it was recorded as taxed with a due date of 8 March 2015 and had been since at least 2011, but both are now "not taxed for on road use". 610 is cosmetically restored and on static display but 609 is a spares donor that has been stripped to a bare chassis so it's never going to be roadworthy again. Strangely, both had V5s issued in July 2015 for some reason.

Oxford SFC 609 by Adam Floyd, on Flickr

Very interesting  (I assume you mean 2005 for the V5 date? thats what they show on my end anyway!)

its worth noting that according to my tool, neither have any recorded keeper changes, and I have found this is true for almost every Not taxed for on road use vehicle I have come across

(715TLG, a Harding, does show some keeper changes, but that's the only one I can recall off the top of my head)

it would be interesting to call the DVLA and just ask them what its all about, but I imagine if you called 3 times you would get 3 different answers knowing the DVLA!

 

 

looping back to Model 70's the owner of MPH759P (the ol Q Regger @busmansholiday helped sort out ) 

got in contact with me after a little bit of radio silence, caused by him finding out the hard not to use your phone inside a Model 70, least you drop it and it go flying out through the gaps in the bottom of the doors for the Model 70 is not known for its good panel gaps!

(at least not after 30 years of service and abuse!)

but he finally managed to get back online, so I was finally able to tell him what brake light switch he needs  (he was struggling to find something, so until now he was simply touching 2 wires together every time he braked to make the lights come on!)

he also managed to figure out what went tits up with his original carb so now he has one spare which is always handy, although now he needs an exhaust due to a rather vicious backfire blowing a hole in it! I did recommend to try and weld it up as exhausts are not common, but did warn him that its also a heat exchanger, so to make sure its not now also fumigating the cabin!

although he did remind that he does not have any heater hose left as they have all fallen apart, so that would not really be an issue LOL (he wants to get more hose and get the heater working, but it seems he is not happy with how much the hose costs)

I did jokingly recommend strapping both carbs on, one per barrel  (you could then legitimately say "my car has twin webbers" LOL)

(which is a setup I think some of the more performance orantated Steyr puch setups used IIRC)

he also has an issue with one plug getting fouled up with engine oil he suspects a ring might be a bit sad, so I reminded him about haflinger technik, the go to guys for steyr puch bits in the UK  

but it sounds like on the whole he has been using his Model 70 almost daily (at least during the warmer weather when the non functional heater is not an issue!) and has been pretty happy with it

which makes me happy, given how few Model 70's are in use sadly, im always happy to hear of one getting some use  

[quicksilver]

7 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Very interesting  (I assume you mean 2005 for the V5 date? thats what they show on my end anyway!)

its worth noting that according to my tool, neither have any recorded keeper changes, and I have found this is true for almost every Not taxed for on road use vehicle I have come across

(715TLG, a Harding, does show some keeper changes, but that's the only one I can recall off the top of my head)

it would be interesting to call the DVLA and just ask them what its all about, but I imagine if you called 3 times you would get 3 different answers knowing the DVLA!

 

Yes sorry, 2005 is correct and that was a typo. I believe the museum acquired them sometime in the 1970s so they haven't had any keeper changes since DVLA records were computerised and haven't been on the road either. There's no way the museum would spend its limited funds paying to re-tax obviously unroadworthy vehicles year after year so the renewal must have been automatic and free of charge, and the lack of recorded keeper changes would tend to support the theory that automatic taxing was done to keep long untaxed but still extant vehicles live on the system, a sort of unofficial precursor to SORN. I wonder why the museum was suddenly issued new V5s in 2005 for vehicles it had owned and not used for years and had no intention of ever making roadworthy though.

[egg]

Postcard spot from the ebay, shame no visible reg...

[LightBulbFun]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

Postcard spot from the ebay, shame no visible reg...

Aye seen that one floating around  

indeed shame theres no reg visible, for all we know it could be the trailer thats now on ebay!

(without seeing the back or hhe controls, I dont think theres anyway to tell if that's an AC Acedes Model 57 or a Model 64)

 

18 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Yes sorry, 2005 is correct and that was a typo. I believe the museum acquired them sometime in the 1970s so they haven't had any keeper changes since DVLA records were computerised and haven't been on the road either. There's no way the museum would spend its limited funds paying to re-tax obviously unroadworthy vehicles year after year so the renewal must have been automatic and free of charge, and the lack of recorded keeper changes would tend to support the theory that automatic taxing was done to keep long untaxed but still extant vehicles live on the system, a sort of unofficial precursor to SORN. I wonder why the museum was suddenly issued new V5s in 2005 for vehicles it had owned and not used for years and had no intention of ever making roadworthy though.

interesting, yeah I do wonder about the V5 thing, as mentioned previously almost Every single not taxed for on road use invalid vehicle and invalid carriage I have come across, shows November 17 November 1983 for the last V5 issued

I would of said the 2005 V5's in your case may be due to the DVLA just issuing updated V5s as new designs came in, but then if that was the case then surely all other not taxed for on road use vehicles would show similar dates if that was the case

sadly I cant quite recall the details since the DVLA changed the way it reports things, but I do recall that most Not taxed for on road use vehicles that show a scrapped marker, would show as "not taxed" in the vehicle status text field and do generally have different V5 issued dates, (TEV673N for example) where as those without scrapped markers would show either tax not due, or Taxed and due depending on date

(but I do know that some of these 17th november 1983 vehicles, also had scrapped markers, but that are all also suspiciously around the same date in 1985, both Tippens and stanley's alike but sadly I cant recall what their vehicle status text field said...)

(and also see the group of screenshots I took just before the DVLA updated itself on the previous page, for further reference/reading  )

[keef]

I'm pretty certain there were at least two V5 updates. Not sure the dates on these but the first was reportedly due to a big batch of "old" V5s being lost or stolen.

There should be something on the history of the V5 that gives details on dates etc.

Edit: Here you go - http://www.buffbooks.co.uk/history/

"From 1st July 2005 the V5 Logbook was no longer valid. It was replaced by the blue/green V5C registration document which was in turn then replaced by the red/pink V5C on 15th Aug 2010."

[LightBulbFun]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:24 PM, LightBulbFun said:

 

speaking of DIY check out whats showed up for sale  its the Model 64 based trailer!

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324053138563

someone here has to get it!, id get it myself, but I aint got anything to tow it with, nor a place to stick it sadly!

been looking at this and just figuring out of curiosity how much of the Model 64 its was made out of is left!

because the Model 57/64 have its rear wheels set far back in the vehicle, so it looks like a lot of the chassis forward would have been lopped off sadly

looks like part of the rear wheel arches, chassis plate, part of the chassis? and the wheels are original 

you can see here in this picture what the rear of a Model 64 would of looked like originally, and where the batteries went )

its a shame the differential was removed, unlike the petrol vehicles of the time, the electric invalid vehicles where actually 2 wheel drive

I also sadly don't think the brakes are original, as the Model 64 Mk4 would have had hydraulic brakes, but the listing mentions the trailer having cable operated brakes

(im also trying to work out what the big bolt poking out from underneath to the rear of the trailer is for?)

 

also making this post to consolidate all the interest there is for it, in one place and making sure everyone is coordinated, so for example so we dont all message the seller separately and seller thinks suddenly everyone wants it and jacks up the price silly!

I know im very much interested, and am willing to lob a bit of cash at it to see it saved  (but I sadly cant do much aside from lob cash at it as lack a suitable vehicle to tow it with, or any place to put it)

and who else is interested? I know @busmansholiday and @egg I think?  (and hopefully @keef will get told just where exactly it is!)

 

[keef]

4 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

 (and hopefully @keef will get told just where exactly it is!)

Wainscott. About 20 miles from me.

[LightBulbFun]

34 minutes ago, keef said:

Wainscott. About 20 miles from me.

Awesome happy to hear its local to someone  

do any of your Maxi's have a tow bar?

[keef]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

do any of your Maxi's have a tow bar?

All my cars have tow bars, even Yoko.

224yko-3 by keef, on Flickr

 

[Mr Pastry]

Seller talks about cable brakes, but there are some very definite hydraulics in a couple of the pictures.

[keef]

5 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Seller talks about cable brakes, but there are some very definite hydraulics in a couple of the pictures.

I assume cars came with hydraulic brakes originally?

 

[Jikovron]

Those model 64 trikes look built to take some weight looking at the size of that battery box, how many were they specced to have?