invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, overrun said:

I'm aware DW drives his about. I'm also aware of this;

In a drag race with the aforementioned Pug, I know where my money would be. 

I suggest you dial back your Model S baiting aspirations a tad.

indeed I am aware of that video as well, but elected not to share it as that the video was recorded when TWC was still having major issues with her CVT system, so its not a very fair 0-60 run if your transmission is all sorts of broken!

and its also well documented that TWC's (well TPAs old engine) engine is somewhat down on power for some reason, so again not a fair representation of the Model 70's capabilities! 

I decided to share her London 70Mph run, as that was done after the fitting of new pulleys, which certainly improved things   and also gave you a good example of a Model 70 being driven through London  

(I understand TWC's belt tension is still out of adjustment, luckily the workshop Manual states what distance to set the pulley centers apart from each other for optimal belt tension and that is 10.25 inches  im very curious to see how TWC performs with the pulley distances set correctly)

 

im not saying the Model 70 is the fastest thing in the world far from it!, but just that they are not as slow as you may think they are  

 

Im very much looking forward to when @Zelandeth gets TPA back on the road, so I can bug him once more find out what TPA's Vmax is  

(as TPA's engine seems to be a bit healthier/perkier then TWC's engine)

as I dont actually know what the actual top speed of a Model 70 is, iv heard stories of 82-90Mph but nothing confirmed, the highest confirmed figure I have managed to get is someone hitting 78Mph according to the the speedo and said person backed off for other reasons not because his Model 70 had stopped accelerating AFAIK

I also sadly dont know what the Rev limit/red line for the Model 70's Steyr puch engine is, if I could at least find that out then I would at  east be able to figure out way of maths, what the theoretical top speed of a Model 70 is if limited by gearing/engine RPM

 

im also obviously very curious to see how REV performs on the open road, im mostly hoping her Pulleys are ok, they looked good at the FoD apart from a bit of surface corrosion which im hoping is not too bad and will clean off with use or can at least be easily cleaned off

 

 

BTW as a side note, meant to mention this earlier, but to those concerned that my neighbours might give me grief for when I have to work on REV in the dead end

this sight greeted me as I went to the dead end to start my lesson, and was still there 2 hours later coming back from my lesson  

 

no idea who owns it or what was being done to it, no one was around, (both sides where wheel-less) but if someone can get away with leaving their car like this

then im pretty confident my Model 70 wont be a problem! LOL

[Dick Longbridge]

So you won the trailer then?! 

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, Dick Longbridge said:

So you won the trailer then?! 

Yep!, thankfully no one else bid! now to message the seller and exchange details and get an exact address so it can be picked up then dropped off at the FoD  

(have already paid the seller via paypal)

[Craig the Princess]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Yep!, thankfully no one else bid! now to message the seller and exchange details and get an exact address so it can be picked up then dropped off at the FoD  

(have already paid the seller via paypal)

Excellent, can't wait to see you pulling it along behind your own one ?

[LightBulbFun]

40 minutes ago, Craig the Princess said:

Excellent, can't wait to see you pulling it along behind your own one ?

that is an amusing prospect, would be one way to solve the lack of any sort of long storage area in a Model 70! the trailer would be perfect for hauling fluorescent tubes and what have you home!

but I have no idea how you would go about attaching a tow bar to a Model 70 without having to hack some of the body/chassis about since right at the rear is the exhaust that goes across the width of the car and the rear chassis member sits behind the rear bumper

I guess you could fabricate some metal thing that picks up on that chassis member then snakes past the exhaust and out past the the rear bumper, and hang the tow bar off that if you wanted to!

(tho may I remind that KPL139P was a caravan tug and look at the state she ended up in, poor KPL)

 

but yeah I feel like this is rather Autoshite, I have no car with a tow bar or one that can be easily fitted with one, no local storage space, and no idea what im going to do with it in the long run  

but just happy to have won it and saved it from the scrap heap  

[busmansholiday]

Congrats on winning, from a few months ago still looking for a model 70, and now having one and a bonus model 64.

I'm looking forward to you rebuilding it, much like @JimH and his steam wagons.

[LightBulbFun]

42 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Congrats on winning, from a few months ago still looking for a model 70, and now having one and a bonus model 64.

I'm looking forward to you rebuilding it, much like @JimH and his steam wagons.

yeah I never expected to be buying a Model 64 based trailer I can say that much!

hah yeah that would be very neat long term plan   the main body of a Model 64 is just simple aluminium panels so in theory it would not be that "hard" (relatively speaking!) to make your own, although there is still the issue of all the running gear and small bits etc

although a crashed Tesla or something could solve that issue

(the aluminium body I imagine is why so few survive sadly, as unlike most other vehicles which where made of fibreglass, the aluminum build of the Model 57 and Model 64 would of made them quite attractive to scrappers)

I also understand that the AC All weather tricycle (Model 43) also had an aluminium body, only 1 of those survive sadly

also while I dont approve of ringing in the slightest, at least it would theoretically be an option should a completely unidentifiable but otherwise road worthy Model 64 show up at some point, it would enable that Model 64 to be drive on the road again, and I would "sleep easy" at night knowing it would be done in good faith, to return a vehicle to the road,  rather then to purposely obscure the identity of a vehicle for any nefarious, or miss guided reasons

 

on that note of the trailer , pleased to say, transportation has been paid for, and everything is in place for it to be collected tomorrow and hopefully be at the FoD around lunch time, im hoping whoever is at the FoD then, can grab a picture of REV and the trailer together, especially for me to post on retro rides I think that will be a bit of laugh  

I have also requested a cheque book from my bank, as the DVLA is still stuck in 1974!

it will be very interesting to see if the DVLA does have this Mode 64 in their archives, and If I do get a logbook from them or if it died and become a trailer before the DVLA (well DVLC) was formed?

(its registration number does not turn anything up on the DVLA checker online, but as we have proved the DVLA does seem to have some offline archives, so it will be interesting to see how the V62 goes!)

 

also TIL, sellers can browse your purchase history on ebay LOL

[LightBulbFun]

so I finally finished running everything Ministry spec, Stanley argson Electric (MoH Model 44) chassis number through my tool, and all in all dug up a surprising number of Stanley's that still show up on the DVLA   

ill do a full write up once iv sorted out the last bits of data tomorrow 

but one for @Zelandeth I did come across this, "First generation" TPA  (which the DVLA has recorded as diesel fueled!)

 

(theortically there may be a xxxTPA Stanley Mk7 or AC Acedes Model 57 or Model 64 here)

 

 

and then the AC Acedes Mk14 Model 67 I found a while back

and obviously TPA the Model 70  

[keef]

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, keef said:

a Very nice photograph, one of @Zelandeth's photo's I believe  

just wondering what made you post it now? (im not complaining, just curious on context etc  is it in response to my post above?) 

 

[LightBulbFun]

pleased to say that @Wingz123 was able to successfully collect my trailer and deliver it to the FoD without any issues today  

 

 

 

 

 

and here it is finally at the FoD

many thanks to @Wingz123 for collecting and transporting it for me to the FoD, and to @Six-cylinder and @Mrs6C for letting me stash it in the FoD!

sadly I dont have any pictures of it next to REV, but @beko1987 has a picture of REV next to his ZX like above!

(side note @beko1987 do you mind if I borrow this picture for posting on my Retro rides thread? ) 

 

now I just have to send off for the V5 for the trailer, not something you normally say! LOL (just waiting for the cheque book to arrive)

 

(also just out of curiosity to those at the FoD today, as a trailer what sort of condition is it in? LOL)

[Dick Longbridge]

That's great that the 6Cs have given it a safe place for now. Billy bargain- the trailer board, jockey wheel assembly, axles and tyres are worth more than you paid instantly. 

As an aside, I can't see your Model 70 parked on the green damp stuff is going to do the chassis any favours. I know the storage is an amazing favour, but I wonder if there's any hard standing space or any area where you could lob down a membrane and some gravel or something. It's lasted well to date, but when metal starts rotting, it doesn't hang around for spectators.

[keef]

Well done on the trailer.

Looks in better condition than I thought.

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

That's great that the 6Cs have given it a safe place for now. Billy bargain- the trailer board, jockey wheel assembly, axles and tyres are worth more than you paid instantly. 

 

Thanks yeah I noticed it came with a trailer board, that was a nice little bonus  

10 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

As an aside, I can't see your Model 70 parked on the green damp stuff is going to do the chassis any favours. I know the shortage is an amazing favour, but I wonder if there's any hard standing space or any area where you could lob down a membrane and some gravel or something. It's lasted well to date, but when metal starts rotting, it doesn't hang around for spectators.

indeed that is a very real concern for me, and id love to get REV some drier storage, I know there is a barn at the FoD but I dont know if REV can be stuffed in there or not, and I have been a bit reluctant to say anything, as you say im very thankful they are lending space for me in the first place and I dont want to "overstay my welcome" so to speak if that makes any sense!

(luckily Model 70's are very resilient to Rotting, but its still a concern I have)

[Wingz123]

The trailer had superficial rust but structurally wasnt too bad at all. 

The previous owner had had it 25 years. He bought it from an ad he saw in the paper! 

I think in all that time he had never painted the wood. That really needs a coat of black paint to smarten it up. Wheels are tidy and tyres looked to be in ok(ish) condition too.....

It's a nice light trailer that rolls easily. 

 

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, Wingz123 said:

The trailer had superficial rust but structurally wasnt too bad at all. 

The previous owner had had it 25 years. He bought it from an ad he saw in the paper! 

I think in all that time he had never painted the wood. That really needs a coat of black paint to smarten it up. Wheels are tidy and tyres looked to be in ok(ish) condition too.....

It's a nice light trailer that rolls easily. 

 

ah interesting  never really knew the history of it so thats good to know  

glad to hear it looks to be in alright shape!

im curious what tyres its wearing, definitely looks like its still on MoH Spec wheels, but the tyres look a bit chunkier then the 4.40x12 cross plies or 125R12 radials they would of been fitted with originally 

 

as mentioned previously if anyone does find themselves needing a trailer for something suddenly, there welcome to borrow this one as long you return it one piece! 

however I cant vouch for its mechanical fitness ATM so keep that in mind tho! *legal disclaimer goes here* LOL

[keef]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

just wondering what made you post it now? (im not complaining, just curious on context etc  is it in response to my post above?) 

Someone mentioned RetroRides, so I headed over and found this, which I assume is the largest gathering of Invocars in the recent past?

I have sent notes to all those owners not to leave their vehicles unattended as they might now come back to a car without it's bodyshell, now you have a partial chassis to clothe.

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, keef said:

Someone mentioned RetroRides, so I headed over and found this, which I assume is the largest gathering of Invocars in the recent past?

I have sent notes to all those owners not to leave their vehicles unattended as they might now come back to a car without it's bodyshell, now you have a partial chassis to clothe.

haha, that gathering was at the FoD on this very forum  (during the last FoTU)

the AC Model 70 closest to the camera is Dolly (OPH868R) belonging to @Mrs6C

the Invacar Model 70 in the middle of the picture is REV451R, that one belongs to me  

and the AC Model 70 at the far end of the picture is TPA621M, that one belongs to @Zelandeth

[keef]

No TWC?

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, keef said:

No TWC?

Sadly not,  @dollywobbler was hurtling towards croatia in his 2CV at that point in time! 

Im hoping sometime this year we can have all 4 together finally! 

(hopefully ill have REV on the road by then! speaking of I wonder how the fuel tank inspection went @richardmorris ? )  

[keef]

Four? Don't you mean five or at least four and a bit?

So is FoD Milton Keynes? I noticed there was a "gathering" there today to welcome your new purchase.

[Six-cylinder]

3 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

As an aside, I can't see your Model 70 parked on the green damp stuff is going to do the chassis any favours. I know the storage is an amazing favour, but I wonder if there's any hard standing space or any area where you could lob down a membrane and some gravel or something. It's lasted well to date, but when metal starts rotting, it doesn't hang around for spectators.

You are of course entirely right standing steel vehicles or even ones with steel chassis's is very bad for them. The trouble is we have limited hard standing that will not even accommodate our own stuff without taking away all our visitor parking and jamming the yard so we end up grid locked. I am afraid grass is all we have to offer.

 

[Zie]

Happy to see you won that trailer. ?

[LightBulbFun]

realised I didn't get round to posting about the argsons will have to sort that tomorrow

but in the meantime heres some interesting AC Acedes findings I made yesterday  

sadly most of the findings are a bit hard to describe without using actual chassis numbers which I dont want to do

but thanks to these findings I am starting to make some headway into why the Private AC Model 70 chassis numbers all start in the 2600s when there certainly where not 2600 private AC Model 70's!

but primarily I found a few what I believe are private examples that still show up on the DVLA, and this also helped explain/make sense of some early AC Acedes chassis number weirdness (specifically, vehicles which where years apart in date of registration but only a few chassis numbers apart, for example 594BGN and 1940PE are years apart but are only 44 chassis numbers apart, I now know that thats because im probably looking at the private Acedes chassis number range rather then a government one)

I must contact Scott Milne, the owner of 1940PE as I believe that one now to be a private example, and so im curious to see what its chassis plate says and if it says "government property" on it or not as that would disprove or confirm my theories

(I knew 594BGN was most likely a private example due to its non surry registration number, but I was not sure about 1940PE as that is a Surry reg)

so heres the "new" AC Acedes I found, note these are not known survivors, just ones I found that still show up on the DVLA

 

first one is 193VPK, this one is interesting because it shows up as Purple on the DVLA (when these were usually blue) and as Mauve And White on my 3rd party tools

(I have noticed that vehicles can be down as multiple colours, just the main DVLA checker wont tell you, for example I know of an Blue and white Mk12 that is down as Blue and white but you can only see it on 3rd party tools, LKE635E)

I have never seen a multicoloured Acedes before so it would be interesting to know what this one looked like IRL  (this one is 4 chassis numbers ahead of 594BGN and is registered very close in date to it)

 

 

 

next up is EFD326B, this is a strange one it is 6 chassis numbers ahead of 594BGN 

not only does it have the engine capacity of a AC petite its also down as Tricycle rather then an Invalid vehicle, however it has an engine number down in the same format as 193VPK so I believe to be an Acedes (especially as AC did not make petites into 1961 nor did they use Acedes style chassis numbers!)

and then also the, well not age related plate obviously, but its not its original plate either, now I know in the 1980s when a vehicle with a non suffix/prefix plate was robbed of its plate the DVLA would issue an A suffix plate (Age related plates not being a thing at that point) but its weird I have never seen a B Suffix plate used in this way, and im curious what prompted it, I cant imagine the DVLA ran out of A suffix plates to issue?!

 

just a few cars down that reg series, is a 1955 Ford for example so its not a fluke

sadly my tool does not say what the original plate of the Acedes (or the ford for that matter) was

 

next  to show up was just to keep me on my toes, was DMG197A, 45 chassis numbers ahead of 594BGN or only 1 chassis number ahead of 1940PE!

I thought ah this must be an stolen plate joby, but I thought best check to be sure, and nope not a stolen plate joby!

it is a genuine A Suffix vehicle, London registred (which is interesting because ALB761A, was originally, and one for the Routemaster fans, sort of! ( @Yoss )  NML72, also a London reg but it is 26 chassis numbers away from 594BGN so a good bit earlier then DMG here)

(fitting that the reg has 197 in it given the 197cc villiers engine that powered it ) 

 

next to show up in my sleuthing was 1350KR, it is 54 chassis numbers ahead of 594BGN, and the above where all 2500 number cars here we are entering the 2600's

if this one sounds familiar to you thats because BFW598B ex 9771KR (this one makes sense since 9771KR is from 1964 so its just an age related B reg plate), is a survivor that I have talked about before  and its interesting to note that 9771KR is only 4 chassis numbers ahead of 1350KR (also Kent registrations rather then surrey regs) https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence-25th-lesson-had-an-epic-trailer/?do=findComment&comment=1896486

and on the thing about it having a government chassis number from that linked post,

if you recall how I mentioned in the past that All AC invalid vehicle chassis numbers start with either 1 2 or 3 letters then a series of numbers, it looks like AC for its Acedes, used the same 2 starting letters for both its government and its private vehicles, but the 2 ran on different numbers, until much later when confusingly AC re-used some chassis numbers for much later AC Acdes Model 57's

(it MAY be that early Government AC Acedes used 3 letters instead of 2, there for meaning that private Acedes did have their own chassis number, but I cant confirm that just yet)

but its worth noting that as mentioned by 9771KR we are into the 2600's and this is where it goes cold suddenly, but I believe this is where the Private Model 70 chassis numbers pick up, with their own 2 new starting letters but keeping the numbers sequential (although it may be that the Private Model 70 chassis numbers actually go back to the Model 67 but sadly nothing shows up before RRE20L sadly so i cant say)

(its not the only time I have seen something like this, the Very late Model 57's did something similar)

 

but yeah some very interesting findings that im still pondering things over, but regardless its very interesting to have come across this small gaggle of what are likely all private AC Acedes! (or in MoH speak Model 57's)

(it would be interesting to know specifically if anyone knows what EFD326B's registration is about!)

 

[keef]

I believe some authoritys didn't issue A plates, but went straight from "dateless" to B plates. I don't know if that explains your B plate findings?  FD appears to be a Dudley issue and very rare.

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, keef said:

I believe some authoritys didn't issue A plates, but went straight from "dateless" to B plates. I don't know if that explains your B plate findings?  FD appears to be a Dudley issue and very rare.

aye yeah 

but im talking about plates issued in the 1980s to vehicles that had their original plates transferred off them

see these days if you have a car and you take the number plate off that car stick it on retention what have you,

the car you just took the plate off of, would get issued whats called an age related plate, ie a number plate that matches the age of the vehicle

however back in the 1980s if you took the number plate off of a car whose registration was ageless ie did not have a suffix or prefix

then that car would get issued an A suffix plate, because as you say, most authorities skipped over the A suffix year of 1963 as they still had suffix less plates to issue (as Suffix plates did not become mandatory until 1965)

so the DVLA would have had a load of A suffix plates spare which they decided to use for when an ageless car was robbed of its original plate

and that looks to be the case with EFD326B,

EFD-B was not issued in period, but looks to have been issued as a replacement series, Im curious as to why it was issued at all rather than an A reg as was the norm in the 1980s

just weird I have never seen a B suffix reg issued in this type of 1980s practice before and im curious as to why it was done at all when im sure there would of been plenty of A suffix plates to choose from!

(remember the vehicle is from 1961, it would not of been issued with a B registration originally, and certainly not the 1955 Ford either!)

[keef]

You live in Dudley in the 1980s and have just plate raped a tricycle. DVLA go to issue you with a replacement plate but find the A suffix range still has the cling film on, so they give you a B suffix one instead.

[LightBulbFun]

30 minutes ago, keef said:

You live in Dudley in the 1980s and have just plate raped a tricycle. DVLA go to issue you with a replacement plate but find the A suffix range still has the cling film on, so they give you a B suffix one instead.

yeah! its the DVLA I shouldn't read into it too much!, but just curious thats all  

I noticed from having a poke around that a lot of the vehicles tend to have been inactive since the quite early 80s

I wonder if this is from the start of this particular "scheme" so the DVLA was still figuring out what they did and didn't want to issue etc

also makes me wonder how did it work in the 1970's and before, (especially as before 1974 everything was handled by local offices) if you transferred a plate off a vehicle especially if it was a vehicle wearing an ageless plate

(like KRW794 for example im curious what the vehicle that plate originated from would of been given)

[keef]

55 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah! its the DVLA I shouldn't read into it too much!, but just curious thats all  

You and me both. It's very frustrating trying to get any sense out of them: I must have a kind of OCD.

I did try and find out more info on Kory and her number plate, but just kept hitting their data protection "brick wall"! How can the date a car was registered fall under "personal information" for example? The original owner was a Flight Lieutenant and a lot of the paperwork I have is from the RAF, so I am sure her history is very colourful.

Rowan Atkinson's Jag wears KRW621, ( https://www.drivearchive.co.uk/vehicledetails.asp?CarID=51062 ) so maybe KRW794 was originally on a Jag? I'd like to think it was on a little MG that the original owner was very attached to though. Maybe it got written off after one of his binges following a flight he was celebrating?

[cms206]

A number of Scottish Routemasters ended up on both xDS-A and xDS-B suffix plates ISTR.

 

(Typically I can't find an example of what I had mentioned, but Strathtay's Routemaster SR6 (821 DYE) ended up as YSL 32B.