invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Seller talks about cable brakes, but there are some very definite hydraulics in a couple of the pictures.

interesting yeah I do see something, is it possible to adapt hydraulic brakes to cable operation?

(I mean I guess if you had a cable tied round a master cylinder so that it acted like a brake pedal would then that would would work?)

2 hours ago, keef said:

I assume cars came with hydraulic brakes originally?

 

indeed, as shown here you can see the brake master cylinder (NB shown is a Model 64 Mk5, with parallelogram front suspension, the Mk4 would have had C tube front suspension, but im pretty sure had the same brake setup)

1 hour ago, Jikovron said:

Those model 64 trikes look built to take some weight looking at the size of that battery box, how many were they specced to have? 

im not sure how many batteries there were exactly, but at a minimum I know there where 6 batteries as the Model 64 was unusual in that it was a 72V vehicle, driving a 72V 1.5 horsepower electric motor mounted to a rear differential  (and 72V divided by 12V gives us 6 12V batteries ) 

most electric invalid vehicles where 36V, (and sadly I only have battery information sheets for the Model 69E Electric Tippen Delta, and Model 44 Stanley Argson Electric)

(im curious @Mrs6C do you know the voltage of Molly the milk float?  )

 

3 hours ago, keef said:

All my cars have tow bars, even Yoko.

oh very cool! would you potentially be up for grabbing and storing it for us?  

im more then happy to pay for it/lob some cash towards saving it, I just want to make sure its saved and in good hands!

obviously if someone else on this forum wants to go for it then there more then welcome to, but I want to setup a "default" option should nobody in particular want to go for it or is able to go for it

[Mr Pastry]

18 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting yeah I do see something, is it possible to adapt hydraulic brakes to cable operation?

Its probably got the remains of a cable operated handbrake system, which may well  operate on the wheel cylinders.  In fact you can see the operating levers sticking out at the bottom of the backplates.

 

18 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

(I mean I guess if you had a cable tied round a master cylinder so that it acted like a brake pedal would then that would would work?)

Well, yes, but why would you?

[busmansholiday]

5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

because the Model 57/64 have its rear wheels set far back in the vehicle, so it looks like a lot of the chassis forward would have been lopped off sadly

Looking closely, I'd say that everything forward of the rear wheel mountings has been lopped off. The tow bar looks like a scaffolding pole that's been welded under the rear wheel supports. There's signs of the old hydraulic pipes and I'd guess the cable brake made use of the previous handbrake system. 

So whilst it's still identifiable as a model 64, restoration to its original glory will be a massive challenge.

 

[busmansholiday]

5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

because the Model 57/64 have its rear wheels set far back in the vehicle, so it looks like a lot of the chassis forward would have been lopped off sadly

Looking closely, I'd say that everything forward of the rear wheel mountings has been lopped off. The tow bar looks like a scaffolding pole that's been welded under the rear wheel supports. There's signs of the old hydraulic pipes and I'd guess the cable brake made use of the previous handbrake system. 

So whilst it's still identifiable as a model 64, restoration to its original glory will be a massive challenge.

 

[Mrs6C]

Molly the Milkfloat is 60V and would have had 30 x 2V individual cells joined up to form one big 'battery', albeit the cells are distributed around multiple wooden battery boxes which IIRC means one on each side under the back deck, one at the rear under the back deck and on some models under the front seat as well. Possibly this was for 72V vehicles.

From the Parts Manual it looks like multiple batteries of 12V and 6V were joined up and used to make up the right no. of volts to drive the motor, rather than a set of 2v cells. The Model 64 wasn't mentioned specifically but the set-up was discussed for the Model 69E and Stanley Argson Electric Three-Wheeler so I guess they would have been similar.

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Molly the Milkfloat is 60V and would have had 30 x 2V individual cells joined up to form one big 'battery', albeit the cells are distributed around multiple wooden battery boxes which IIRC means one on each side under the back deck, one at the rear under the back deck and on some models under the front seat as well. Possibly this was for 72V vehicles.

 

interesting! I figured it would of used just a bunch of 12V batteries  

where the 2V cells Cyclon cells or something different?, I used to know a guy who powered his shed via a whole bunch of these  running a 12V Pure sine wave inverter for 240V stuff

 

24 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

From the Parts Manual it looks like multiple batteries of 12V and 6V were joined up and used to make up the right no. of volts to drive the motor, rather than a set of 2v cells. The Model 64 wasn't mentioned specifically but the set-up was discussed for the Model 69E and Stanley Argson Electric Three-Wheeler so I guess they would have been similar.

indeed, I wonder why the Argson used 2 12V and 2 6V batteries instead of 3 12V batteries

it is worth noting that the battery sheet for the Argson is about 10 years older then the Tippen Delta's sheet, (it is mentioned in the Tippen sheet, that some Tippens used 2 6V batteries, but to convert them to single 12V batteries when replacing them)

(or maybe the argsons needed to retain 2 6V batteries because some auxiliary thing ran off 6V? or maybe space/packaging reasons, im not sure sadly!)

I do have a picture of the battery/motor setup of a Miller conversion Tippen Delta, its pretty neat how they packaged it all, ill have to ask if I can share that picture tho!

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

Its probably got the remains of a cable operated handbrake system, which may well  operate on the wheel cylinders.  In fact you can see the operating levers sticking out at the bottom of the backplates.

 

 

1 hour ago, busmansholiday said:

Looking closely, I'd say that everything forward of the rear wheel mountings has been lopped off. The tow bar looks like a scaffolding pole that's been welded under the rear wheel supports. There's signs of the old hydraulic pipes and I'd guess the cable brake made use of the previous handbrake system. 

 

ah of course I forgot that the hand brake would of obviously been cable operated so they could of just adapted that  

[Mrs6C]

Use of 2 x 6V batteries could be for better weight distribution.

Molly's cells would be like those here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/223858604253

Interesting YT video here of how to maintain this kind of thing:
https://youtu.be/OZHG52b46xo

[keef]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

would you potentially be up for grabbing and storing it for us?  

Happy to pick up, but have no room to store it unfortunately.

[keef]

I've made a FoI request about the not taxed for road use thing.

[keef]

I'm not after a trailer, but wonder how useable this EBay one is?

Would it have 10" rather than the usual 8" trailer wheels?

image by keef, on Flickr

image by keef, on Flickr

image by keef, on Flickr

image by keith h, on Flickr

[LightBulbFun]

29 minutes ago, keef said:

Happy to pick up, but have no room to store it unfortunately.

ah yeah thats the issue a few of us are facing sadly, good to know and I appreciate that your happy to pick it up at least  

24 minutes ago, keef said:

I've made a FoI request about the not taxed for road use thing.

oh cool, do you have a link to it so we can keep an eye on it?  

it will be very interesting to see what they say!

13 minutes ago, keef said:

I'm not after a trailer, but wonder how useable this EBay one is?

Would it have 10" rather than the usual 8" trailer wheels?

 

its im pretty sure, on 12 inch MoH/DHSS standard Spec dunlop LP 519 wheels   (first used on the AC Acedes Model 57 I think, and last used on Model 70's GPL350N and JAR184N )

im not sure if 12 inch wheels is a good or bad thing for trailers, iv not had any experience with them!

[keef]

28 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh cool, do you have a link to it so we can keep an eye on it?  

it will be very interesting to see what they say!

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/not_taxed_for_on_road_use

I don't expect a sensible answer.

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, keef said:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/not_taxed_for_on_road_use

I don't expect a sensible answer.

thanks for the link  yeah! its always worth a shot! but if nothing else at least it might provide us with a good laugh  

 

[keef]

31 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

its im pretty sure, on 12 inch MoH/DHSS standard Spec dunlop LP 519 wheels   (first used on the AC Acedes Model 57 I think, and last used on Model 70's GPL350N and JAR184N )

im not sure if 12 inch wheels is a good or bad thing for trailers, iv not had any experience with them!

OK: thanks.

The 8" ones are fine for small trailers carrying little weight, like my 4x6. I find my 3x5 trailer rides better on 10" (mini) wheels and the 5x8 & car transporter both use 13" wheels.

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, keef said:

OK: thanks.

The 8" ones are fine for small trailers carrying little weight, like my 4x6. I find my 3x5 trailer rides better on 10" (mini) wheels and the 5x8 & car transporter both use 13" wheels.

ah interesting  

(BTW small correction I meant to say LP 591 not 519!, and for those wondering, from Model 70's GPL351N/JAR185N, and onwards is when they switched to 10 inch Mini wheels, Dunlop LP 1161's  )

[overrun]

On 1/26/2020 at 10:33 PM, plasticvandan said:

Mr LBF, watch this Reliant factory film from 1973,from about 9 mins on it shows the whole process of making a fibreglass body,from clay master,mould making to making bodies,this is the wet lay up process Reliant used from 1956 to 2001.

 

Have you came across much RS200 production, mate? Particularly videos.

If anyone has, its you.

[egg]

re: the invacar trailer, if someone wants to buy it I will be able to store it temporarily in my lock-up in Whitstable (about 30-35 miles away). I think it will fit with some messing about. But...I do want the space back by the spring so I can actually fiddle about with my MK12 when the weather warms up. Not sure if Keef wants to drag it all the way, but it is a possibility.

However, if the buyer is LBF or Busman's holiday bear in mind that you're taking it further away from where it ultimately needs to go!

[LightBulbFun]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

re: the invacar trailer, if someone wants to buy it I will be able to store it temporarily in my lock-up in Whitstable (about 30-35 miles away). I think it will fit with some messing about. But...I do want the space back by the spring so I can actually fiddle about with my MK12 when the weather warms up. Not sure if Keef wants to drag it all the way, but it is a possibility.

However, if the buyer is LBF or Busman's holiday bear in mind that you're taking it further away from where it ultimately needs to go!

ah thats good to know, any sort of offer of help etc is much appreciated!  

yeah I was wondering if  @keef or someone else would be up for getting it and then shitelying it to another location

and on that front @Six-cylinder or @Mrs6C would it be possible to store the trailer at the FoD until a more permanent home is found or such?  

or alternatively, (if I end up being the owner of it/the one paying for it) then im happy for it to become a communal trailer that members of the forum can use/borrow from where ever it ends up living, for when they need a trailer for something or such  

(so long as it does not leave the forum and someone does not do something silly with it!)

as mentioned I just want to make sure its saved!

 

(I also heard that @Bucketeer runs some sort of car delivery/shitely service? but im not sure what it entails exactly or if he can do trailers!)

[Mr Pastry]

On 1/29/2020 at 4:58 PM, egg said:

re: the invacar trailer, if someone wants to buy it I will be able to store it temporarily in my lock-up in Whitstable (about 30-35 miles away). I think it will fit with some messing about. But...I do want the space back by the spring so I can actually fiddle about with my MK12 when the weather warms up. Not sure if Keef wants to drag it all the way, but it is a possibility.

However, if the buyer is LBF or Busman's holiday bear in mind that you're taking it further away from where it ultimately needs to go!

 

[LightBulbFun]

I noticed @keef's FOI request has a response, if they continue to get confused after your latest response

perhaps you should ask them how does a vehicle acquire the vehicle status of "Not taxed for on road use" 

as you can only see a way to only SORN or Tax a vehicle and cannot find an explanation on the DVLA website of what exactly "Not taxed for on road use" means or how a vehicle would go about acquiring that status

(you could also perhaps give them an example reg like NNO803M for example)

[keef]

Very difficult to know how to respond to DVLA. They immediately bury their head in the sand if you mention any specifics and use the data protection "flag" and then refuse to deal with a request.

Probably doesn't help that the person responding no doubt has no knowledge that there is anything other than SORN or licenced on the system.

Asking them to pass the request on to someone with common sense is also a no no and will probably result in the request being ignored as well. 

[Mrs6C]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah thats good to know, any sort of offer of help etc is much appreciated!  

yeah I was wondering if  @keef or someone else would be up for getting it and then shitelying it to another location

and on that front @Six-cylinder or @Mrs6C would it be possible to store the trailer at the FoD until a more permanent home is found or such?  

or alternatively, (if I end up being the owner of it/the one paying for it) then im happy for it to become a communal trailer that members of the forum can use/borrow from where ever it ends up living, for when they need a trailer for something or such  

(so long as it does not leave the forum and someone does not do something silly with it!)

as mentioned I just want to make sure its saved!

 

(I also heard that @Bucketeer runs some sort of car delivery/shitely service? but im not sure what it entails exactly or if he can do trailers!)

If someone would like to buy it and get it transported up here (maybe initially via Keef to Egg's garage then along up to here via whatever means) then I'm happy to have it live at the FoD for a while.

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

If someone would like to buy it and get it transported up here (maybe initially via Keef to Egg's garage then along up to here via whatever means) then I'm happy to have it live at the FoD for a while.

Awesome thats very much appreciated   

so @keef would you be able to collect it and take it to @egg's lock up or the FoD for me?  im happy to cover petrol costs etc

 

so assuming I can find someone to shitely it for me, im thinking ill bid for it, then tell the seller that ill have a friend pick it up for me etc, much like I did for the 2 vintage fluorescent tubes @Skizzer kindly picked up for me

(I would like to do it this way since I would be directly be paying for it and that makes me the owner of it directly, and then I can then directly send off a V62 for it knowing in good faith I am owner of this vehicle or well what's left of it!, I Just have to find someone with a cheque book still!)

 

(I also understand @Wingz123 has some sort of delivery business? just thinking who here is known for moving cars around for people! as a contingency plan incase @keef cant shitely it to where it needs to go)

 

 

and just shoe horning this in this post, (I would of posted it earlier but did not want to break the flow LOL)

but had my 24th lesson yesterday  went pretty well, weather was pretty nice, which was extra nice as we did a lot of A road cruising, so that made it quite enjoyable

sadly did not manage to practice any parallel parking as I had hoped because the area we practice, was unusually congested with traffic and road works, but it did mean I got plenty of practice meeting cars and making sure I pull in to a space so they can get through etc  

(also as a side note/general observation, im definitely much more relaxed when just driving around then when I first started so thats good  although I do still get a bit nervous when it comes to busy junctions especially when turning right/going across multiple lanes of traffic, or roundabouts!)

[Wingz123]

Let me know if you need anything.....I'll upload pics of the 3 wheelers I've moved before tomorrow! 

This was about 6 hours ago....I even got papped going down the M1 by a member from the owners group I think!.....mileage done today circa 700/750ish miles....on the road since 6am! Reading > Birmingham > Middlesborough > Maidstone (Kent) > Reading

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, Wingz123 said:

Let me know if you need anything.....I'll upload pics of the 3 wheelers I've moved before tomorrow! 

Awesome! good to know there's a back up option  incase your not aware, this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324053138563 is what im looking to have moved ultimately to the FoD if possible, but if not then @egg's lock up at least

it started life as a 3 wheeler, and technically it still has 3 wheels if you count the little wheel on the tow bar!

[Wingz123]

Sure no problem I can do that. 

As an aside and on the subject of three wheelers....errr.....kind of.....was heading down the M1 and this CONVERTED three wheeler into a 4 wheeled reliant Robin passed me with massively wide arches! Had to mention!!! Never seen that done before! God knows what engine that had in it but it was flying down the fast lane

[overrun]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Awesome thats very much appreciated   

so @keef would you be able to collect it and take it to @egg's lock up or the FoD for me?  im happy to cover petrol costs etc

 

so assuming I can find someone to shitely it for me, im thinking ill bid for it, then tell the seller that ill have a friend pick it up for me etc, much like I did for the 2 vintage fluorescent tubes @Skizzer kindly picked up for me

(I would like to do it this way since I would be directly be paying for it and that makes me the owner of it directly, and then I can then directly send off a V62 for it knowing in good faith I am owner of this vehicle or well what's left of it!, I Just have to find someone with a cheque book still!)

 

(I also understand @Wingz123 has some sort of delivery business? just thinking who here is known for moving cars around for people! as a contingency plan incase @keef cant shitely it to where it needs to go)

 

 

and just shoe horning this in this post, (I would of posted it earlier but did not want to break the flow LOL)

but had my 24th lesson yesterday  went pretty well, weather was pretty nice, which was extra nice as we did a lot of A road cruising, so that made it quite enjoyable

sadly did not manage to practice any parallel parking as I had hoped because the area we practice, was unusually congested with traffic and road works, but it did mean I got plenty of practice meeting cars and making sure I pull in to a space so they can get through etc  

(also as a side note/general observation, im definitely much more relaxed when just driving around then when I first started so thats good  although I do still get a bit nervous when it comes to busy junctions especially when turning right/going across multiple lanes of traffic, or roundabouts!)

I’m sure you have considered this, but if you get nervous in a modern car with enough torque for regular driving, you will be bricking it in a Model 70, as it will be slower than the rest of the traffic to pull away etc, not to mention your own nerves.

You will soon get used to the sound of irate horns!

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, Wingz123 said:

Sure no problem I can do that. 

 

Awesome good to know  (I look forward to seeing the pics!)

Just now, Wingz123 said:

As an aside and on the subject of three wheelers....errr.....kind of.....was heading down the M1 and this CONVERTED three wheeler into a 4 wheeled reliant Robin passed me with massively wide arches! Had to mention!!!

haha, sure it wasn't a reliant kitten?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Kitten

I imagine it would be a lot of work to convert a Robin to 4 wheels! 

(I feel inclined to tag @plasticvandan at this point ) 

somewhere on facebook is a somewhat decent photoshop job of a 4 wheel Model 70 will have to try and dig it up now!

[overrun]

I reckon Wingz will be aware of a Reliant Kitten. Lol.