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Invacar Model 70 Acquired! and general ramble thread, index on page 1, Phase 2: finding a suitable driving school/instructor getting lessons and a licence! 15th lesson had!

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Hasd a wander round the Riverside Museum today. Thought id take some pics for ye chap...7fd708446b0d59a5fe1143339e3a011a.jpgfec08ba61ca5c1a913d07f19c3badf7b.jpgb061de58b10d3d8d769ff753a2de806d.jpg9236dd5d1268c322130ba6d31880f293.jpgb842b6b5f3a0a731b68d7cc30131a6da.jpg3e261a4eb2f9ec8a030b377e7c9163ee.jpg770d528aaff3706b0dab8e611a5aefd9.jpg75be11330aa8829cc98a65fe07714405.jpgd105137b02620cf91840092c301f6a88.jpg884444570c8dda02df8945b23ea3e6ae.jpgd88285c984983da9a63e4b0fca58ed38.jpgc9a3ca0702af68eb48a35065489c2545.jpge907f306f4cb5e2cd9c439d370bacc77.jpg1cc92f5edd756d51ae592203c6c51ced.jpgf8e56420a06fe25e2ab3ef1cfc42be1f.jpg553d4b2327d6d1b702e849c43bbee61d.jpgc04a09cdffc69982b36c76c7ac8d2f6c.jpg

 

Some have come out sideways....sorry

 

ohhh very cool! thank you for grabbing those :)

 

any chance if your back round next time you could grab a vin plate shot?

 

its interesting to see that running in label I really do wonder what the history of that Model 70 is, being the oldest known surviving Model 70 and also the longest untaxed that iv come across, having been untaxed since 1978! so its been off the road, or at least out of tax since it was only 7 years old

 

I wonder if its ever been on the road?

 

do you remember how many miles the speedo said? :)

 

not sure if its your phone or if its tapatalk but your photos are somewhat low rez so its hard to make out all the details sadly 

 

but I appreciate the effort very much :)

 

 

(once again they speak of invacars as one vehicle, ignoring the fact there where many different models and types, and the tiller control they show is not of a Model 70)

 

 

50mph maximum? Oops...

 

oh dont worry thats just a recommended top speed, not an actual hard limit, its just saying if you go above 50 you automatically get a mad man certification  :mrgreen:

 

it is interesting to see the 40Mph break in rule, because its basically saying "do not exceed 3500RPM" (since above 40Mph is when the CVT goes into fixed ratio mode and RPMs start increasing)

 

and it reminds me the 2CVs 4000RPM limit :)

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heres an interesting one

 

https://www.motorcheck.ie/

 

found this site while looking for any irish sites that might tell me the DOM/DOR for the 2 NI Model 70s without having to pay for it

 

and while sadly that site does not tell me such up front, it does tell me the body type

 

so iv been having a bit of fun popping in a few different invacars :)

 

TWC725K comes back as a tricycle as expected because DW changed the body type to such, but interesting TPA621M comes back as invalid vehicle still despite Zel changing it to tricycle on the V5 I think? (although i dont actually know if he got the V5 back from the DVLA)

 

 

its also interesting to see the following preserved and on road or previously on road Model 70s: TTW991R NPN924P ATW722L JPA268N and JBY 503J the Mk12E all come back back as "invalid vehicle" for body type still :)

 

so as stuart says, it doesn't seem to actually matter/the DVLA dont care about the body type, so you dont actually have to change the body type from invalid vehicle to Tricycle :)

 

(I wonder if you can change it back if you did change body type to tricycle, i know personally its always bugged me LOL)

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Cor! I didn't know his book had been published, I thought it was still 'draft' (maybe I'm reading very old forum posts).

 

I will be getting this too for sure.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction-British-Invalid-Carriage-Abandoned-ebook/dp/B00G706R0O/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1551440074&sr=1-3&refinements=p_27%3AStuart+Cyphus

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Cor! I didn't know his book had been published, I thought it was still 'draft' (maybe I'm reading very old forum posts).

 

I will be getting this too for sure.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction-British-Invalid-Carriage-Abandoned-ebook/dp/B00G706R0O/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1551440074&sr=1-3&refinements=p_27%3AStuart+Cyphus

 

no this aint his new book, this an older book of his :)

 

just finished reading it,  the sections where a bit brief but it was still very enjoyable and was interesting learning if nothing else exactly what other invalid carriages existed :)

 

I look forward to his next book which is said to be much "juicier" so to speak :)

 

updated the survivors list with MEV419P which is the Model 70 pictured on the "Model 70" page of the book (I guess ill have to scan in the picture at some point)

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managed to dig up a little more information on WOI654 and SOI7570 :)

 

this site https://cartaxcheck.co.uk/

 

seems to actually give me some date of reg info

 

up first is WOI654 which comes back as registered on the 1st of July 1980, with "year" as 1980, is that supposed to be year of manufacture or year of registration?

 

post-25614-0-01726200-1551451410_thumb.png

 

and then next is SOI7570 which comes back as 1st of December 1978....

 

post-25614-0-42596500-1551451491_thumb.png

 

going by this info I want to say that NI got ex used UK Model 70s that where then registered as new vehicles in NI.... I do wonder why they did not just keep their UK regs...

 

 

 

BTW updated the survivors list with RPU821R :)

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managed to dig up a little more information on WOI654 and SOI7570 :)

 

[…]

 

going by this info I want to say that NI got ex used UK Model 70s that where then registered as new vehicles in NI.... I do wonder why they did not just keep their UK regs…

 

Well done, that's some sleuthing!

 

Until the mid-1970s, cars in Northern Ireland could legally carry either locally issued registrations (NI series), GB issued registrations, or Republic of Ireland registrations. If they were brought in from outside NI, they would be registered by the new owner with DVLNI, Northern Ireland's own version of DVLA but could EITHER keep their original plate or gain a brand-new plate.

 

At some stage in the 1970s, it became no longer permissible to own a car registered with a Republic of Ireland plate in NI - it was necessary to re-register the car to a new Northern Ireland plate. I'm not sure whether this was for administrative or political reasons - i.e. to make a car registered in ROI more conspicuous at a time when there were rumours of bombs and guns being brought over the border.

 

My dad was running a 1961 VW Beetle at the time in Belfast, with a Dublin plate (RZA 99 - quite a nifty plate), and recalls being threatened a number of times in Loyalist areas for driving a 'dirty Free-Stater car', so it's possible there were a number of reasons for this change.

 

It seems that there was never a similar requirement for GB-registered cars to be re-registered after being brought over - this was optional. Some people liked the ability to do this (for example, you could buy a one-year old ex-dealer demo car in England, bring it over to NI and then put a brand-new plate on it, thereby fooling neighbours/colleagues into thinking you had a brand-new car), others didn't care (I thought my Cortina would look daft on a new plate when I brought it over from Scotland, so opted to retain its original plate of NJW605X).

 

My understanding is that once DVLNI/DVA merged with DVLA in 2014, this no longer became an option because the registration authority remains in Swansea regardless of where in the UK a car is. Consequently, there are now A LOT of GB-plated cars in Northern Ireland these days (my own being one of them - brought over in 2016).

 

So, at a guess, I'd say that NI probably did receive its Model 70s with GB plates (since it appears they were registered from the factory) and they were then re-registered with a local numberplate, possibly at the point at which they were issued to an individual. 

 

In the case of SOI, it was issued while Model 70s were still current - but for WOI, production had ceased by the time it was assigned to a user. I'd say this is what's muddied the waters.

 

The re-registration may have been done because people might not have wanted to be issued with an 'English' car - it doesn't mean much to me, but a few older people I've spoken to have said they'd be reluctant to drive a car with GB plates, in case it made them a target somehow. Bit like my dad was, only he was using Southern Irish plates.

 

I'm guessing that invalid carriages were issued out of Musgrave Park Hospital in South Belfast, as this is the main orthopaedics hospital in Northern Ireland - hence the Belfast 'OI' series plates.

 

WOI is a puzzle, for sure - though I might just have a bit of a lead.

 

post-17915-0-34225600-1551455810_thumb.jpg

 

Yesterday a friend of MrsDC's from uni contacted her to say she'd got a new job.

 

She now works for the Transport Galleries at the Ulster Folk & Transport Museum, where WOI lives.

 

I might just be getting in touch with her... I'd like to nail down the build year and chassis number for this one.

 

[Edited for clarity - sorry, bit garbled in a few places there!]

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interesting stuff :)

 

its worth noting even SOI was registered after Model 70 production ended if the site I found is to believed

 

(production of Invacar Model 70s ended in February 1978 with VES108S, but SOI has a DOR of December 1978)

 

thats cool that you have a potential "contact on the inside", ill also ask tentatively ask stuart about the whole thing :)

 

the thing about "not wanting to be seen in a UK Car" was one I was thinking of too

 

Also looked up UOI4719 for the giggles of it and that one comes back with a DOR of 1st october 1979

 

I find it interesting how the Irish websites can pull this info up but the main DVLA checker cant...

 

BTW is it me or does WOI654 not have an engine? I cant see an exhaust in that picture, and the wheels look to have camber to them like the suspension is unloaded

 

edit: never mind looking very closely i think I can make out an exhaust tip

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alright heard back from stuart on the NI Model 70s :)

 

turns out not even he is exactly sure what the whole story is, and that he was digging into it a few years back but there just was not a lot to go on

 

and that he cant say for certain why these have NI reg plates (although he agrees with your possible theories of making them look less British during some troubles)

 

he says it would he really could do with the chassis numbers of WOI654 and SOI7570

 

GIG4834 is the reg of the one that is suspected to be built out of spare parts, its chassis number being T495 which is a couple hundred up from the last known "officially produced" AC Model 70s (tho I am curious how it got an official AC Chassis number if it wasent made anywhere near themes ditton )

 

so yeah seems like we have a proper mystery on our hands :)

 

(I wonder if SOI7570 and WOI654 where also built out of spare parts hence given NI reg plates as well? because if theres one thing iv noticed is all of the NI reg Model 70s iv come across, yes all 4 LOL have been registered after production ended)

 

do HPI checks work with NI cars? if so could someone please run a HPI check on WOI654 SOI7570 and UOI4719, and tell us what details your able to pull up?

 

(specifically the chassis numbers please :) )

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Oh holly hell, I did not....

 

thank you very much for finding that :) (I was watching the 3 wheeled section on cars n classic but never saw it iv now got a page open on their AC section to keep an eye on)

 

 

£2K is a bit much as DW says, especially as iv only got £793 saved up and especially as he does not show the rest of the car, I wonder if again its a case of, does not have a clue what its actually worth

 

but otherwise yeah that does look like exactly what im looking for good body work and good mechanical bits :)

 

there are a couple issues of,

 

A im not sure how id get it down from yorkshire, although it does sound like it might be drivable if nothing else LOL (main thing there is what condition are the brakes in)

 

and B why does it have to be on a Q plate, because as far as the DVLA is aware its a 1997 car so would not be eligible for historic tax/MOT exemption, and as such I would not be able to park in the dead end here as thats public highway (so the car would have to have valid tax and MOT if its not exempt from those)

 

(theres the 3rd issue of the fact its been horribly painted over, but thats relatively minor LOL)

 

it should be possible to re-register it with its original number plate/ID assuming the original chassis number survives somewhere, but id have nowhere to stick it while its in the processes of being re-registered

 

 

the seller provides a phone number, so ill see what you guys have to say first then I think ill give him a call sometime soon :)

 

On a Q plate... that’s interesting! Wonder what the story there is??

 

Maybe a way round the scraping order?

 

aye most likely I imagine it was done specifically as way to shake its Identity so the DHSS couldn't go "Oi thats my car give it back!"

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A decent running example sold for £2k last year. There's an element of piss-taking there.

Is that not just the standard Classic Car market nowadays though? Something sells for x, person y has one in worse shape but gives it a go selling it at x+[pisstake]%. Someone is after one, see that is the only around and then buys it. This end up causing people to come to accept that price new norm. While there is demand for Classic Cars and there is a finite supply, people will pay it and the cycle repeats.

 

I mean to put it another way, if you _really_ want an Invacar real bad, what are your options? That is about the only one around for sale at the moment. Hence its a case of make that guy an offer or wait longer in the hope a better one comes along.

 

If you want a project and a hobby to tinker with, £2k cash isn't a whole lot of cash to blow nowadays. Especially not a lot of cash for the the demographic of this - i.e. middle aged house owner, stable job and career, possibly children have left the nest too who remember these cars from their childhood and maybe have a connection to them (family/friend/neighbor).

 

It might sell for that or he might take an offer. We also don't really know the condition apart from one rubbish photo. Might just be cosmetically bad or might have more troubles.

 

Not I like the classic car market this way but it unfortunately seems to be the reality. Its why I can't get a decent Triumph GT6 for less than, say, a Boxster in very nice condition.

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LBF - I'm sure a shiter between Sheffield and London would keep it for you while you badger Simon @ the ICR for the original reg plate. As we know, they have all the model 70 records, unlike my situation :-).

 

Complete and running - I have the figure of £1200 in my mind. I may be well out, but that's what's in my head.

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LBF - I'm sure a shiter between Sheffield and London would keep it for you while you badger Simon @ the ICR for the original reg plate. As we know, they have all the model 70 records, unlike my situation  :-).

 

Complete and running - I have the figure of £1200 in my mind. I may be well out, but that's what's in my head.

 

thats an idea :)

 

I was looking at around about that figure as well (I was aiming at saving up at least £1K although with ESA on the wonk, i have no idea whats going to happen now)

 

 

I'm to the north of Sheffield so the wrong way really. Have you rung them and asked, in particular, where in Sheffield it is as it could be anywhere from the outskirts of Chesterfield to a couple of miles from me.

 

I have not given them a call yet, I wanted to see if anyone here had anything else to say etc before I did :)

 

 

AFAIK you might have a bit of a battle on your hands getting rid of a Q plate. Usually when a vehicle has one they are stuck with them.

 

hmm I was hoping it would be case of

 

Figure out the original reg and Chassis number, then apply for a V5 that way etc

 

or something like that :)

 

 

 

 

 

(its just my life that a Model 70 shows up for sale, right when im properly up shit creak *sigh* )

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AFAIK you might have a bit of a battle on your hands getting rid of a Q plate. Usually when a vehicle has one they are stuck with them.

 

Good point.

 

But I think in this case the Invalid Carriage Register should have the information to prove the original year from the chassis number (assuming it is present) - and that the ICR have previously agreed specific arrangements with the DVLA - so that should help here. Though not in my case - as MK12 records are more sketchy.

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hmm I was hoping it would be case of

 

Figure out the original reg and Chassis number, then apply for a V5 that way etc

 

or something like that :)

 

A bit chicken and egg maybe? Usually it's a lack of evidence to ID that gets a vehicle a Q plate in the first place. It could actually be used to your advantage though as Q plate cars always sell for less than their equivalent with a standard plate, it could be used as a bargaining chip. :-)

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alright small update

 

Talked to stuart about it, theres now 79 known surviving Model 70s  :mrgreen:

 

(aka this one is a new discovery :) )

 

he says it should not be too hard to get rid of the Q plate, and that its most likely registered on a made up chassis number

 

so it should be entirely possible with its actual real chassis number to send in a V62 for its real registration number etc :)

 

he also told me where the chassis number will be located on the actual chassis which is handy to know :) (it means I can ask the seller about that) if im reading stuarts message correctly its "on the front surface of the front suspension top mount"

 

 

 

I just gave the seller a call but sadly he did not pick up, so I think ill formulate a text message.

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