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1992 Range Rover - the economy vehicle


N Dentressangle

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There's just something that looks so 'right' about a Range Rover. I like the airdam on them, looks like something's fallen off with it missing

 

whs ^^ about late 80s and 90s.

 

mid80s and earlier cars had a plastic valance/dam that sits just behind the bumper, I guess to deflect water and rubbish away from engine electrics. You cannot see it unless you are being mown down by one. :D

 

post-3439-0-12360100-1539637264_thumb.jpg

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Wot he said.

 

You’re making me want one again. Thought I was over that.

 

 

Like various diseases once you're infected by these there is no cure.

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What's so scary about them? They're mostly the same as an early Discovery, and relatively low tech compared with anything modern.

 

Rust is a PITA, but then welding wire is cheap and so is labour if you can DIY.

 

The worst part is the fuel bill, TBH.

 

I wonder if they've still got a reputation gained 30 years ago as vast moneypits, whereas when run as a 'classic' they're not much worse than plenty of other similar aged stuff?

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So, first 100 miles or so covered. Developments:

 

Pair of Cooper Discoverer AT3 fitted to the front:

 

syZ1882.jpg

 

Feel better than the pair of 10 year old, worn out Avons they replaced, and should cope with a bit of mild trialling when the time comes.

 

Mpg is looking like 14 at the moment. That's on mixed A roads and a bit of local. Should it be better than that? No idea!

 

In finding that out, I also discovered that the spring which opens the fuel filler flap has broken - nothing happened apart from the click of the solenoid when I pressed the flap open button, and it took a minute or two to persuade it to swing free.

 

Part number seems to be MXC8732, but only Craddocks list it at £12.10 plus vat. Must be some kind of cheap alternative around - maybe another trip to the scrapyard in prospect!

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14 Mpg, it would appear you've not got a single sticky caliper and the engine is in good tune. Best pop matching tyres on your rear before the viscous coupling shits its guts.

 

The Coopers are much closer in size to the Nexens on the back, in any case, so shouldn't be a problem...  :unsure:

 

Why such a tiny little spring should cost so much, I don't know. Its remains can be seen here:

 

2qM541B.jpg

 

Might nip down to Wilko and see if there's anything cheap I can butcher up.

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The metal was weird. Kind of almost soft and buttery, and even when cut back to 100% sound metal not something you'd want to hang from the edge of a skyscraper from. God knows where LR got it from - maybe given the recent fall of the iron curtain in 1992 Solihull had taken some deliveries from the East.

 

Exactly like on my 1994 Disco 1, some of the metal, particularly in that area, isn't good quality steel (LOL like any of an LR body is), genuinely feels like super cheap recycled tin. You can almost reshape it by hand.

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Yours is looking   8)

 

No obviously sticky calipers, and I have a pretty relaxed right foot.

 

I've bought it a new Bosch coil (right one) to replace the Valeo, and will probably try a set of plugs as well as leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm.

 

Are these leads any good?:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-Discovery-3-5-3-9i-i-V8-09-89-12-98-BOSCH-IGNITION-SPARK-LEADS-B831/153196024807

 

I'm going for NGK BP6ES plugs, unless you think different?

 

Other daft questions:

 

Do I need to change / upgrade the ignition amplifier?

I'm going to strobe the timing as well - 6 btdc a good starting point?

 

Sorry to hijack your thread   :?  Please do reply on mine if it makes things neater!

 

 

 

 

 

Hi ND

 

high levels of torque easily disguise a sticky caliper ;)

 

if me I would jack each axle right of the ground in turn and double check for free movement of each wheel on that axle, have engine running so the system is pressurised. get an assistant to press brake and release. check that it releases immediately.

 

if one wheel is tight on one axle but you cannot figure which it is, jack both wheels on same side of the car and repeat the above.

 

you should be able to isolate the sticky corner :)

 

then what is causing the stick :)  it could be flexi hoses that are collapsing internally. the fluid goes to the caliper under pressure fine but cannot easily return from the caliper under vacuum. when hoses start to breakdown the pads release but slowly. this situation never gets better and eventually the brakes will overheat. check brake flexies for cracks and bulges. again with engine running, get an assistant to press the brake pedal while you check over each hose. 

 

Calipers next, the pistons get rusty and stick against the seals. also the channels that the pads sit in rust. this means that the pad moves but can then be reluctant to move back when the caliper piston retracts. Remove pads and get rid of any rust that might interfere with the pad movement on it's edges.

 

If brakes are not sticking :) I would next want to check that the viscous diff is working. Jack up one front wheel, engine off and gear selector in neutral, handbrake on. put the wheel wrench on one wheel nut and try to rotate the wheel clockwise, it should turn but slowly. I think something like 30degrees in 1 minute or something like that. I shouldnt need huge force. Seized viscous diff will be stuck locked meaning that you are running in fixed 4wd which on your will mean that one wheel on each axle will be driven rather than one wheel on the car being driven when in normal circumstances. That will impact fuel economy.

 

If viscous diff is seized look for a guaranteed P38 unit, they fit into the housing on a classic BW transfer box ;)

 

if brakes and diff are good then next look at the engine

 

compression check would be useful. all cylinders need to be within 10% of each other. and the reading should be taken cold and with throttle open. to do the job properly you should then squirt a little oil into each cylinder in turn and recheck compression. I would not expect more than a 20% increase in compression.

 

So what the actual fuck does that mean? 

If one or more cylinders are more than 10% lower on the "dry" compression test then there will be something wrong with those cylinders. that could be that a valve is not closing properly, the head gasket has failed, the bore is excessively worn or the rings are dead.

 

If a "wet" test shows more than a 20% increase in compression that would indicate a problem with cylinder bore or piston ring

 

If a "wet" test shows no real increase over a low "dry" test, then the fault is more likely in head gasket or valve seating

 

goddit?

 

Rover V8s have hydraulic lifters so there is no tappet adjustment as the hydraulic lifter takes care of that. If the engine has had head work or new cam fitted with new lifters it is important to check tolerances to ensure that no valve is left even slightly open when it should be closed. shims are available to install under the rocker shaft pedestals. unless you have head related issues with low compression that you cannot understand or know that head skimming or engine work have been done don't worry about this but keep it in mind.

 

Rover V8s will also run in a terminal state and still sound fabulous, alas a fair number of horses and torques will have fled.

 

Camshaft and timing chain are the most likely source. both wear badly in normal usage but when oil changes are abused this wear accelerates. Not unheard of for camshaft lobes to be worn round. i.e. that valve will have limited if any function and the cylinder will be dead.

 

The "mumsnet" folk on landy forums will tell you that a Rover v8 cam cannot last more than 80k miles. Mine is just coming up to 180k, there is no change of performance or economy of this engine since it was 43k. LPG has helped by keeping the oil uncontaminated. Regular oil changes have kept the engine clean

 

I use mineral 15/40 multigrade. then engine feels far peppier than when it is running an average 20/50. Genuine LR oil filters help the oild pressure lift to go out quicker ;)

 

Cats are a necessary pain in the arse. if one is restricted then performance will suffer as will economy. Do either of your cats rattle? time for a change if they do

 

Ignition, Bosch Super 4 plugs are awesome, pricey but mine have been in for 50k miles and still have life in them.

 

K&N filter helps breathing, I once had a paper air filter that worked fine of Pez but LPG simply would NOT run. that certainly would not have helped pez economy

 

Cap and rotor, watch out there a world of shite parts available cheaply, unclip your cap, it will rotate a degree or two if shite, any sideways movement is shit. fit the rotor, is it a snug fit? these kind of cheap parts run on pez BUT LPG running will cause issues, LPG needs ignition and engine in peak of condition.

 

There are now so many crap ignition parts on the market that I could only recommend that you slide on down to the church of triple distributordoctor. Other vendors of products of varying quality are available ;)

 

Coil, Bosch is a good start, make sure it is genuine ;) fakes are available donchano.

 

Silicone HT leads are a must, not sure about those in the link, they seem a bit too cheap for a v8 set which I would expect to be twice that price at the minimum.

 

I have a code reader to check that other stuff is working like fuel pressure and lambda sensors

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Freezer collected and wrestled down into the cellar, then off to the top of Aggs Hill near Cheltenham to set up the trial for today:

 

2NtwqPM.jpg

 

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pWw5Aw6.jpg

 

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3kcMjUe.jpg

 

K6Wo6Jv.jpg

 

Went really well off road - the Cooper Discoverers are decent tyres, and it's so much less of a sweat than my old Series.

 

Should have taken it today. I drove like a turd and came home early.

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Just checked the viscous coupling, and all seems to be working as it should.

 

No obvious signs of brakes binding, either.

 

I'm guessing genuine Lucas dizzy cap and rotor arm like this are OK?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-RANGE-ROVER-V8-LUCAS-DISTRIBUTOR-CAP-ROTOR-ARM/122359514936?hash=item1c7d320738:g:fLoAAOSw4A5YpxV5:rk:37:pf:0

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Just checked the viscous coupling, and all seems to be working as it should.

 

No obvious signs of brakes binding, either.

 

I'm guessing genuine Lucas dizzy cap and rotor arm like this are OK?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-RANGE-ROVER-V8-LUCAS-DISTRIBUTOR-CAP-ROTOR-ARM/122359514936?hash=item1c7d320738:g:fLoAAOSw4A5YpxV5:rk:37:pf:0

 

Good news on brakes and centre diff :)

 

OE Lucarse doesnt exist, there are loads of cheap copies wearing the lucas name on the green box. Pretty much anything in a green lucas box on the bay just aint I am afraid. Hence distributor doctor makes good money selling quality stuff

 

New or used old stock caps have "made in england" around the centre contact

 

New of used old stock rotors have LUCAS proudly stamped and the blade is held in place as part of the moulding. 

 

Copies of the caps are often a poor fit, install one and start the engine. it is not uncommon to watch the damn thing wobbling about at the engine runs. that isnt going to last. If they dont wobble about see how much you can rotate it once the clips are in place. then ask yourself what is the point of setting the ignition timing to the degree :)

 

I have also seen cheapo copies arcing down the outside of the cap because the HT lead contacts are crap and the cap is not made correctly

 

the rotor with the metal rivet are a nightmare, you often find that the blade is so thin that you can bend it. the rivet works loose so that the blade moves about and then the ultimate insult is that the spark intermittently goes via the metal rivet straight to the baseplate creating a misfire that you will inevitably tear your hair out trying to find.

 

I have personally broken a green rotor that was "higher quality" that what I am not sure. the rotor wouldn't easily push down onto the distributor shaft then when it did click into place I double checked the back lash on the mechanical bobweights to make sure that they still worked and the rotor was spinning on the distributor shaft. I pulled it off again fnarr and found that I had squashed the plastic lug that fits into the slot on the distributor shaft to prevent it slipping. i managed to fuck that using hand pressure and no i am not david banner

 

You will almost certainly get lucky and find a cap that is not too bad a fit and a rotor that seems ok. Me? I just don't fancy the risk of loosing ignition just when I need it and having to coast across three lanes of motorway to get to the hardshoulder. And then waiting in the pissing fucking rain for 2h for the recovery to turn up. distributordoctor all the way for me. No business connection other that satisfied customer

 

I will do a youtube vid of cheap crap caps and rotors

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Brilliant, thanks - I did wonder.

 

There's a bit of wiggle in the cap, so that'll get replaced, along with the rotor arm. I'll drop DD an email to get some prices.

 

The vac advance seems to be doing nothing - no hint of movement when sucked, so I suspect all is seized. Given a lack of willingness to rev, I reckon the bob weights will be doing bugger all as well, so I'm about to pull the distributor for a good strip, clean and lube of everything. The HBOL suggests stopping before such things as air gaps are disturbed, so that's what I'll do.

 

Engine is currently at TDC with rotor arm pointing at nr 1 plug, so we should be good to go. I'll mark the position of the dizzy body on the block too, obviously.

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Well, if you get what you pay for then what I've currently got is crap. Distributor Dr's rotor arm and cap are £58.80 delivered, so a bit more than the Lucas Ebay special! Better get another paper round.

 

Here's the grotty old thing, skulking in the middle in the blue cap:

 

XoVGiBK.jpg

 

The clamp bolt is nicely accessible* and a bit of wriggling with a 9/16" spanner leaves us with this:

 

6BlCNfB.jpg

 

The guilty party is now ready for cross examination, or at least a cross-head screwdriver:

 

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c9Kh20x.jpg?1

 

I'll be replacing the vac advance, but I might as well replace the ignition amplifier whilst I'm here, no?

 

Unfortunately chores stopped play. New and exciting machinery has been acquired, and we needed to get a few more pressings in before the light goes:

 

P3Wx69s.jpg

 

Although here we're back on the 'you get what you pay for' theme. The el cheapo crusher and press we borrowed from a friend (£100ish, genwine Eastern Europeen) was awful. It took 4 hrs to produce the same amount of juice as we did today in 1 hr, and with much more discomfort. The s/h Vigo kit in the pic cost a bit more, but will outlast me, pumps out juice like a drunk once the seal's broken and is a doddle to use.

 

The cheap kit isn't worth any money, really.

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vacuum advance, can you suck or blow through it? If you can it is broken. if when you suck you feel resistance then with the cap removed you should see the optic on the baseplate move ever so slightly. I shouldnt be difficult unless something has seized

 

replacing vacuum is easy enough but does need the ignition baseplate removing. also easy, 3 screws

 

bobweights can be disturbed by pulling the rotor arm on a tired distributor. when the baseplate is off you can see if they are in place.

 

Also rotate the rotor while holding the drive gear at the bottom end. it should rotate a few degrees in one direction only. and then spring back. This is the mechanical advance bobweight doing its thing.

 

Personally I wouldn't worry about the amplifier. I think they work or the don't and if they dont then you loose all ignition.

 

clean up the connections and make sure earth lead is attached when it all goes back together.

 

What is the apples going to be?

 

please say strong cider :)

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Don't worry - I read a while ago that these boxes don't like being revved in park. I just noticed that once we're over 2k revs when driving, not much more happens, and suspect bob weights or ignition timing. We'll see how things turn out.

 

Normally when you suck hard on a vac advance pipe you can hear some movement in the dizzy, in my experience. In this case there's nada, although the diaphragm's not obviously leaking. Again, a strip down and see what the base plate's actually doing, I think.

 

Sadly I've never been into cider. If Calvados were easier to make I'd have a crack at it, but hey ho. I think we're on for the best part of 100 litres of juice this year, so if you want to come and collect some to make your own blinding scrumpy then you're very welcome!

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yes something very wrong with ignition if not a lot happens over 2k rpm.

 

Mine has bags of torques upto 2k but on kickdown does to 4k very quickly, quicker when on pez :)

 

It doesnt often need to go beyond that, again because of torques. and fearful movement from fuel gauge. 

 

Interestingly when on LPG it doesnt like to go beyond 4k, there is a flatspot but once the ecu and stepper valve respond to the need for speed it allows me past and will go beyond

 

Motorway cruising for me is between 2.5k and 3k and is certainly not flat or unresponsive in that range.

 

time to get the baseplate out of that dissy

 

The vacuum advance on my stag sounds similar to yours, the unit was sound and I couldnt breath through it, but neither would it shift the ignition. I ended up replacing it and never got to the bottom of why

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So, all stripped down and fault found.

 

Bob weights are good - clean and moving freely

 

Base plate rotates freely, and all looks clean

 

Vac advance unit completely seized. When I pushed the lever in hard I got some movement, but accompanied by 'I'm all seized and knackered' type noises, and now I can suck and blow through it. I'm guessing the diaphragm is ruptured and the internals are all corroded and seized.

 

I'll order a new one and get it re-fitted. That seized advance would have been stopping the base plate from rotating at all, so no mechanical advance or anything. No wonder it didn't want to rev!

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So, distributor all cleaned, lubed and put back together with a new vac advance unit.

 

Result - it flies! Feels livelier at all revs, but especially on kickdown you start to get far more of a whoosh of acceleration, whereas before it had just built speed steadily.

 

16mpg on the last filling too, so we're going in the right direction.

 

 

New Solihull challenge is that the headlights have stopped working. Nothing happens when the switch is wiggled, and the sides work, as does the headlamp flasher. Am I right to suspect the relay, and if so, where the hell is it?

 

8) because I might as well wear dark glasses, for all I can see.

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