Project Mercedes Benz - W123 230E & W124 200E - Both happy and working ok

[Peter C]

The replacement exhaust clamp arrived the other day. Here they are, the old (top) and the new (bottom), spot the difference.

Fitting took about two minutes. Job done.

On the subject of the exhaust system, I noticed the other day whilst walking away from the car that the rear box tailpipe was starting to look rusty again. I think it's part of the original system and thus almost 30 years old. Getting a square peg into a round hole is easier than making a cheap EPC exhaust fit a W124 (been there, done that) and a proper replacement is over £100, which I am not prepared to pay out until the exhaust starts to rot through and blow.

So I gave the tailpipe a lick of Hammerite. From a distance, say from the cockpit of a traffic police car, the exhaust looks nice and fresh now.

I keep checking the coolant reservoir tank for signs of more mayo and sludge. On a couple of occasions, post longer drives, I did see very slight deposits of mayo on the underside of the cap but I do mean slight and the coolant has stayed clean.

As much as I like the look of a phase 2 W124, with the side cladding and sill covers, the plastic trim can cause rust issues on neglected cars. General muck tends to accumulate on top of the plastic trim, within the rear wheel arch, to the front of the wheel.

The easiest way to remove the muck is to remove a single 8mm fixing located to the underside of the sill trim panel.

With the fixing removed, the plastic trim can be bent down to release all the muck. Even on my well maintained car, a lot of crap dropped out. If left for longer, the crap gets wet and just sits there, holding moisture, which over time causes issues with adjoining metal.

The same thing happened on the other side.

With the crap removed, I noted some surface corrosion on the bottom lip of the sill, which I promptly covered over with Hammerite.

Finally, I had a look at all four jacking points - a common issue on all W124s. Fortunately, mine were solid when I bought the car and have remained so since I cleaned and painted them a couple of years ago. I spotted minor surface corrosion in a couple of places, which.... I painted over with Hammerite.

[Peter C]

Earlier this week, James @Wingz123 very kindly sorted me out with a set of correct W124 200E steel wheels (2 tyres are legal, 2 are slicks) and a super set of original wheel trims, all for a bargain price of £30, which included delivery to my house. Thanks mate! Don't you just love this place?

The wheels will come in handy as one of mine is badly kerbed.

One of the new wheel trims was badly scuffed (circled in yellow) but otherwise the trims are great, a lot better than my old ones, even if that is not so obvious in the photo.

I had a go at fixing the 4th trim today. Once cleaned up, the deep scuff marks had to be filled with P38.

Once sanded down, I gave the trim three coats of Mercedes Brilliant Silver paint, followed by two coats of clear lacquer.

Job done and the 200E is now fitted with a full set of presentable wheel trims.

On Monday I'm heading out to Great Yarmouth, a 160 mile each way work related trip. This will be furthest from home that the 200E has ventured. Wish me luck.

[Peter C]

I am pleased to report that the 200E successfully completed a 324 mile round trip from Beaconsfield to Great Yarmouth without a hitch. 

For most part of the journey, I cruised at or just below the legal limit. At that speed, the engine is silent and the 200E just glides along. I filled up on route home and worked out the fuel consumption - 40.3MPG. Not bad for an old under powered two litre saloon.

Destination reached and looking pretty. 

And the best news is that when I got home and once the engine cooled down, I checked the coolant reservoir and found no traces of mayo. No sign of OMGHGF here.

[Six-cylinder]

I am due to get my 200TE back soon.

We are just waiting on a s/h central locking vac pump to arrive at the garage to fit it and I can have my W124 back.

27 mpg seems a more typical mpg for mine.

[HMC]

Great result on the trims. I found similar mpg difference auto vs manual as you guys on longer runs. The Manual has a longer striding top (about 2900 at 70 rather than 3400) and the auto has no lock up torque converter so is that bit more less efficient.

[HMC]

The 230te auto i had was the thirstiest 4 cylinder I had where 25-29 was typical, with the e320 auto (4 rather than the 5 speed one) the thirstiest  6- did 24 mpg however I drove it. Both those were pretty knackered by the time  I owned them tho

[Peter C]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

 

27 mpg seems a more typical mpg for mine.

Ouch. Is that on a run or around the houses?

[Peter C]

39 minutes ago, HMC said:

Great result on the trims. I found similar mpg difference auto vs manual as you guys on longer runs. The Manual has a longer striding top (about 2900 at 70 rather than 3400) and the auto has no lock up torque converter so is that bit more less efficient.

@Wingz123

This!

[Wingz123]

5 hours ago, Peter C said:

@Wingz123

This!

Absolutely agree! I drove back @HMC as had to be back for my daughters birthday dinner.....sat at 80ish and truth be told for the old 200e that is a bit much. She is working a bit too hard at that speed. As @Peter C says 65/70 is much more peaceful.....you retain your ear drums at those speeds! 

Not the car for blasting up and down autobahns.....bigger engines for that. This is for those who value Mercedes built quality and Mercedes ride comfort....much like myself come to think of it! ?

And on the subject of economy.....I filled up at Taunton Sainsburys, sat at 80-85 and once back home in Reading filled up again only needing £14 to brim it.....I thought that was pretty good - 121 miles door to door for that leg of the trip

[Peter C]

I took the 200E down to Basingstoke today via the M40, M25 and the M3 and back again. There was little traffic and I mostly cruised at c70MPH. I filled up the tank before I got home and worked out the MPG - 44!

Also, with the ambient temperature in the low 30s, the engine got up to full running temperature (c87 degrees) even whilst driving for prolonged periods at high* speed.

[Peter C]

I've been using the 200E a lot lately, this week I've clocked up over 500 miles. Whilst the car has behaved itself, I have been struggling with my phone / sat nav. I previously extended the phone charging cable towards the centre console, between the front seats, where the phone sat charging and providing radio and navigation. Whilst my Kenwood head unit controls the stations (I listen to Absolute Radio via the phone app), the location of the phone has not been ideal whenever I needed to follow directions on the screen. 

I decided to install a phone cradle. I made use of an old cradle I last used in my W219 CLS and a piece of plastic of unknown origin. The idea was to install the cradle without drilling holes in any exposed surfaces.

I marked up the ideal location of the plastic trim by using gaffer tape.

I removed the section of carpet that covers the side of the transmission tunnel (it comes out very easily) and screw fixed the plastic panel to it. Two of the screws are hidden, the other two are not but should I need to remove the phone cradle, I am sure that the thick carpet would fluff up and conceal the location of the two exposed screws.

With the cradle installed, I now have the phone in a near vertical position, where I can easily see the screen but where it won't distract me whilst driving. The installation is entirely reversible and cost me nothing.

 

[Peter C]

It's been a good few month since I last updated this post, mostly because the 200E has been on its best behaviour, until yesterday. 

A few weeks ago I took the 200E to Islington, London N1, on a busy Friday morning. Parking was fun, the 200E just about fitted in the only parking space available for a mile.

I took this arty photo next to an industrial unit, in deepest Slough.

And these two shots inside an old large warehouse located on the outskirts of Thatcham.

It's been very hot and dry lately, hence I've been making regular use of the 200E for both work and pleasure trips. Yesterday, on route from Farnham to Reading, the engine developed a misfire at idle and up to 2,000 revs. The engine bay was bloody hot and I guess the old ignition system developed an issue. I am not a fan of the original design of the HT leads, which are fixed to the top of the engine with plastic trunking. In case the misfire was related to the leads, I removed the trunking and secured the leads away from the cam cover with 3 cable ties.

On route home from Reading the misfire became intermittent rather than constant, so perhaps my assumption about the leads was right.

I have ordered new leads, plugs, rotor arm and distributor cap, which I should hopefully be collecting tomorrow. In preparation, I removed everything this afternoon.

The distributor cap and rotor arm don't look brilliant.

I replaced the spark plugs some time last year and they're still ok. Although there is evidence of an oil leak, which affects cylinder 3. Cam cover gasket strikes again.

More about the 200E soon, once I sort out the ignition parts.

In the meantime, the W123 has passed an MoT, although the steering box needs some more adjustment / overhauling. I did drive it last week, took it to see a client who lives in a proper Berkshire manor. Pretty car next to a pretty house with a pretty sky above. 

[MJK 24]

On 6/23/2020 at 6:01 PM, HMC said:

The 230te auto i had was the thirstiest 4 cylinder I had where 25-29 was typical, with the e320 auto (4 rather than the 5 speed one) the thirstiest  6- did 24 mpg however I drove it. Both those were pretty knackered by the time  I owned them tho

I had a 230E and it was poor on fuel.  31mpg on the motorway at the steadiest 65mph you could imagine.

Urban use only and you’d be getting 23/24mpg.  
 

 

[Peter C]

Before removing the old distributor cap and HT leads, I marked where each lead fits on the cap. I thought it would be best if I re-assembled the new parts correctly. I'm clever like that.

I fitted the new plugs, leads, rotor arm and cap. All in, the parts cost me £85. I asked my wife to help me re-fit the leads into the original trunking as I could not manage with just two hands. W124s are brilliantly engineered cars but there are a few design issues that bug me. The HT leads trunking is one of them. The clips used to secure the door cards is definitely another. I digress. I forgot to fit the black plastic cover that slips over the distributor cap. Never mind. With the new parts fitted the engine started up straightaway and idled smoothly. I let it run for a few minutes but couldn't take the car for a drive as there is currently 0.5 tonne of gravel stacked outside my garage, ready for tomorrow's landscaping project. Time and weather permitting I'll test drive the 200E tomorrow. Wish me luck.

[timolloyd]

Good luck!

[stuboy]

lovely cars and home

[Peter C]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:45 PM, timolloyd said:

Good luck!

Thank you.

I took the 200E for a quick run this morning. Everything seemed ok, engine was running fine, however let’s see how it behaves next time I’m stuck in traffic on a hot day.

[Peter C]

The 200E has been running just fine. The misfire has not returned, however the hot start misfire is still there. This confirms my suspicions that the problem relates to an injector rather than the ignition system.

Since passing the MoT, I have not used the W123 due to an ongoing issue with the steering box. The MoT tester, very kindly, passed the steering at the last test but made it clear that attention is needed. There is far too much slack in the system and turning the wheel quickly from left to right and back again causes a worrying clicking sound, which emanates from within the steering box.

I found a company in Wakefield, which specialises in overhauling Mercedes steering boxes. They're called Steering Specialists Limited. For £250, which includes courier costs both ways, they will overhaul the steering box, all I had to do is get it off the car. Research on the internet suggests that the task  can be made difficult by 35+ year old fixings and a couple of chaps on a Facebook W123 page advised against doing it at home.

On a RHD 230E the steering box is visible from the underside but nicely hidden under the exhaust manifold when viewed from the engine bay.

One of the toughest jobs was getting these three bolts out. I've never come across a fixing so rusted and seized.

Anyway, two hours later, I had the steering box out and on my bench. It's a big and heavy old lump! I couldn't get the pitman arm off, a known problem. Hopefully the steering specialist will be able to sort that.

And this is the problem:

[Peter C]

To celebrate my victory I had lunch in the garage.

[Mally]

You'd not be having lunch off my bench.

[Peter C]

2 hours ago, Mally said:

You'd not be having lunch off my bench.

My wife laughs at me whenever I mop the garage floor.

[Dick Longbridge]

34 minutes ago, Peter C said:

My wife laughs at me whenever I mop the garage floor.

Since fitting the same floor tiles as you, I've actually found myself hoovering the garage. My fiancée doesn't know this.

[Peter C]

13 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Since fitting the same floor tiles as you, I've actually found myself hoovering the garage. My fiancée doesn't know this.

I remember my dad hoovering our driveway. I guess that’s where I inherited my mental illness from.

[Peter C]

As part of the process of overhauling the steering box I replaced the power steering fluid and filter. I got an original MB filter from my local Mercedes dealer.

Old against new. The power steering fluid has never been renewed or topped up during my ownership (shame on me). 

The refurbished steering box arrived (via courier) on Thursday. Apart from being shiny and clean, turning the input shaft revealed significantly less play in the box and a complete absence of alarming clicking sounds.

Despite the relatively small size of the steering box, it's a bloody heavy bastard of a thing. Manhandling it into place from underneath the car and securing the three fixing bolts was a two man job. Actually it was me and my wife that got it back in. Before removing the steering box I forgot to mark up various elements and prior to reinstatement I had to work out at which point the steering box was centralised and align the steering wheel to match, then bolt the two together. I was sure that I got this right, however with everything back together, the first test drive revealed that the steering wheel was approx 60 degrees off centre. Theoretically this should not be an issue, however I have never been able to remove the allen key bolt that secures the steering wheel, which would enable removal and adjustment of the steering wheel location. Despite using my longest power bar and all my strength, I could never shift the bolt.

I had booked the 230E for an appointment at Wheels in Motion in Chesham for a geometry check and adjustment.

I explained the situation to the technician and he agreed that before the geometry could be adjusted, the steering wheel and box need to be aligned. Matey got his power bar out and despite using every Newton that he could exert, the steering wheel bolt would not shift. Bugger. Then matey brought out his Snap-On electric impact wrench and repeated the exercise. The bolt was loose and off in about 2 seconds. Bingo. With the steering wheel lined up with the steering box, the geometry check and adjustment could begin.

The front wheels had too much toe, which caused excessive wear to the inner sides of the front tyres and made the car nervous in a straight line. The toe was adjusted, however the slight misalignment of the camber and castor (both adjustable on the W123) were left as they were on the basis that all fixings are 35 years old and attempts to release, adjust and re-tighten the fixings could prove to be a nightmare.

On route home from Chesham the steering felt a lot better, especially now that the steering wheel was perfectly straight. One issue that needs attention relates to the adjustment of the steering box. I think that the box has been over adjusted, which causes the steering to bind in the straight ahead position, which makes it very difficult to keep the car driving straight. The steering box adjustment nut is located on top of the box, approx 1/2 an inch below the exhaust manifold. To get to the nut, the engine needs to be lifted off the exhaust manifold. I have everything set up and will adjust the box later this evening / tomorrow morning, once the engine has cooled down.

Looks like I'm 95% there.

[jonathan_dyane]

Personally I would wait a couple of weeks in case it beds in.

Lovely car

[Peter C]

Regular readers will know that I've had a long term problem with the 200E's 5 speed manual gearbox. The gearbox would crunch horribly when changing up from 1st to 2nd, unless the process was taken very slowly, preferably with a short pause in neutral but the change was smooth when down changing from 3rd to 2nd. In my opinion this was not a synchromesh related issue but something to do with the selector mechanism. 

Last year I found a replacement gearbox on EBay, described to be in good condition. I travelled to deepest East Anglia to fetch it (from Buckinghamshire) only to find out upon arrival that the gearbox has been modified. Apparently, the gearbox was mated to a Mercedes V8 engine and fitted to a BMW E30. The bellhousing had an opening cut into it, to accommodate a larger starter motor and the holes for bolts that connect the gearbox to the engine have been enlarged. Despite these issues, the seller claimed that the gearbox was in good working condition. In the end I got the gearbox for free.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to clean up the gearbox and find a local mechanic to do a gearbox swap for me. I was quoted £150 for the job, which I thought was reasonable. I delivered the car and replacement gearbox to the mechanic on Tuesday and all being well I should have had it back yesterday. As I am writing this today, clearly things have not gone according to plan.

First time the mechanic called me yesterday was to say that the vibration damper on the propshaft is knackered. A Febi replacement soured from the internet costs £60 inc p&p. An original part from my local Mercedes dealer costs £157 plus VAT and would not be with me for 10-12 days. I told the mechanic to leave the damper as it is and crack on with the gearbox swap, on the basis that I will fix the damper myself in due course. Then came the second call. The input shaft on the replacement (modified) gearbox has been machined down by approx 12mm. This was done professionally and without the other gearbox along side it, I had no way of knowing that the replacement gearbox is scrap. 

Whilst working from home, a quick look on EBay revealed a suitable Buy It Now gearbox for sale in Epsom, only 40 miles away from me. I bought it, the seller's phone number appeared on the screen, I gave him a call and arranged to collect the gearbox within 2 hours. By 5pm, I had delivered the new replacement gearbox to my mechanic. This latest bit of kit was once fitted to a W201 (190E) Mercedes, however to the best of my knowledge, it is the same as gearboxes fitted to W124s. The casing number even starts with 124... The gearbox is filthy but the seller claims that it is in good working condition. I guess time will tell. By placing this gearbox alongside the other two revealed that the flange and doughnut fixed to the output shaft are smaller, however these can be easily swapped. 

All being well, the 200E will be ready for collection tomorrow. The job will now cost more that £150 but if everything works out, I will have a crunch free transmission.

Have some pics.

 

[lesapandre]

Always interesting threads Peter. The old like but not quite syndrome - often happens to me too.

[Fabergé Greggs]

43 minutes ago, Peter C said:

Regular readers will know that I've had a long term problem with the 200E's 5 speed manual gearbox. The gearbox would crunch horribly when changing up from 1st to 2nd, unless the process was taken very slowly, preferably with a short pause in neutral but the change was smooth when down changing from 3rd to 2nd. In my opinion this was not a synchromesh related issue but something to do with the selector mechanism. 

Last year I found a replacement gearbox on EBay, described to be in good condition. I travelled to deepest East Anglia to fetch it (from Buckinghamshire) only to find out upon arrival that the gearbox has been modified. Apparently, the gearbox was mated to a Mercedes V8 engine and fitted to a BMW E30. The bellhousing had an opening cut into it, to accommodate a larger starter motor and the holes for bolts that connect the gearbox to the engine have been enlarged. Despite these issues, the seller claimed that the gearbox was in good working condition. In the end I got the gearbox for free.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to clean up the gearbox and find a local mechanic to do a gearbox swap for me. I was quoted £150 for the job, which I thought was reasonable. I delivered the car and replacement gearbox to the mechanic on Tuesday and all being well I should have had it back yesterday. As I am writing this today, clearly things have not gone according to plan.

First time the mechanic called me yesterday was to say that the vibration damper on the propshaft is knackered. A Febi replacement soured from the internet costs £60 inc p&p. An original part from my local Mercedes dealer costs £157 plus VAT and would not be with me for 10-12 days. I told the mechanic to leave the damper as it is and crack on with the gearbox swap, on the basis that I will fix the damper myself in due course. Then came the second call. The input shaft on the replacement (modified) gearbox has been machined down by approx 12mm. This was done professionally and without the other gearbox along side it, I had no way of knowing that the replacement gearbox is scrap. 

Whilst working from home, a quick look on EBay revealed a suitable Buy It Now gearbox for sale in Epsom, only 40 miles away from me. I bought it, the seller's phone number appeared on the screen, I gave him a call and arranged to collect the gearbox within 2 hours. By 5pm, I had delivered the new replacement gearbox to my mechanic. This latest bit of kit was once fitted to a W201 (190E) Mercedes, however to the best of my knowledge, it is the same as gearboxes fitted to W124s. The casing number even starts with 124... The gearbox is filthy but the seller claims that it is in good working condition. I guess time will tell. By placing this gearbox alongside the other two revealed that the flange and doughnut fixed to the output shaft are smaller, however these can be easily swapped. 

All being well, the 200E will be ready for collection tomorrow. The job will now cost more that £150 but if everything works out, I will have a crunch free transmission.

Have some pics.

 

I wish I knew a mechanic who would swap a gearbox for £150- sounds like a good price to me. 

[Peter C]

17 minutes ago, Fabergé Greggs said:

I wish I knew a mechanic who would swap a gearbox for £150- sounds like a good price to me. 

It was. Crazy thing is that he did the work with the car raised on stands. No two/four post lift nonsense here!

[SiC]

On 9/19/2020 at 3:33 PM, Peter C said:

Wheels in Motion in Chesham

Is that the outfit that the MX5 guys love for their alignments? @gm probably will know.