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Mercedes Benz - W123 230E & W124 200E - Both happy and working ok


Peter C

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6 minutes ago, Pete-M said:

You've changed the fan for a "big metal one" and now the engine is overcooling. Hmm. 

I've changed the original fan, which even when disengaged would spin and thus provide some unwanted cooling for an electric fan of the same size, which remains static and restricts air flow past the radiator in 95% of driving conditions and does not kick in until the engine temperature has reached 90 deg C. What's your point Mr M?

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Approx 8-9 years ago, I had the rear arches replaced on the 230E. They were a little rusty rather than rotten and with hindsight, I should have had the original metal properly repaired. 

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I paid surprisingly little for the labour, however I was not 100% happy with the result. There is evidence of excessive use of filler where the old and new metal abuts and the shell is no longer original. That said, all these years on, there is no evidence of any cracking or rust.

I also had the metal around the rear window replaced. It was completely rotten and water was dripping into the boot.

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This repair has also lasted well, although the paint applied to the lower panel has lost some of its shine.

I decided to stick the 230E into my workshop and give it a minor cosmetic makeover. Nothing major, just a clean up and refresh where needed. I started at the back of the car, inside the boot.

With the boot carpet removed, the plywood spare wheel well liner is revealed. All good so far.

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Aside from the spare wheel and original tools, I carry a tow rope, spare fan belt and a piece of wood that was there when I bought the car.

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Keeping it old skool! The old P5 holds air, isn't cracked so I'm keeping it.

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Original tools have seen better days.

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With the spare wheel well cleared, you can see non-standard holes in the floor. When I bought the car, the first job that I did was to remove a tow hook, which was bolted to the boot floor. Whilst it's not pretty, all the metal is 100% solid and just wanted a hoover and wipe over. I touched up the slight surface corrosion around the redundant holes with waxoil. 

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With the rear bumper removed, the rear valance looked great, just needed a spit and polish.

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The bumper, on the other hand, had some surface corrosion.

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Which I wire brushed and coated with waxoil.

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The side rubber mouldings that secure the edges of the rear bumper contain metal plates. Whilst the nearside plate was pretty much mint, the offside part did not look too clever. I ended up giving both plates a coat of waxoil.

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More soon. What other gems will I uncover?

 

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10 hours ago, Pete-M said:

You've changed the fan for a "big metal one" and now the engine is overcooling. Hmm. 

But (as I already may have mentioned...) increased airflow has no effect, as when the coolant temperature drops, the thermostat will (should?) shut. Driving down a long gradient at motorway speeds will provide far more airflow than a fan will, yet everyone's engines do not indicate cold in that scenario.

It certainly is a puzzle, so I would be inclined to measure for myself the thermostat opening temperature, and assuming that is OK, even consider the possibility that it might not be operating correctly under pressure.

I'm clutching at straws a little bit here, but does your thermostat have a jiggle pin fitted? These are a crude valve allow air bubbles to bled out during filling, but seal under the pressure from coolant flow. If your thermostat(s) have been fitted the wrong way round, the flow will hold the valve open and allow *some* coolant to always bypass the 'stat. Wouldn't have thought that'd be enough to significantly reduce the engine temperature, but I may be wrong...

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I had a 4x4 Sierra years ago which had a dodgy viscous fan clutch. That used to over cool, the temp would get to 1/2 way when idling then as soon as the revs rose above about 2000 the temp would drop down to just below 1/4. Sometimes the coolant temp would drop low enough to kick the child start injector back in and it would run badly as if the choke was on. 

Replaced the stat, same problem. 

Replaced the fan clutch and it ran at 1/2 way like it was designed to. MPG went from 22 on a run to 30 mpg. It also no longer sounded like a Boeing at 3000 rpm.

If the big fan is dragging a lot of air through the rad the coolant won't be able to get to normal temp. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've made more progress with the 230E. Firstly, I re-assembled the rear bumper and the contents of the boot. I gave the spare wheel a good polish - I must be mad!

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I then turned my attention to the front of the car. I stripped the bumper and associated fittings.

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I didn't find anything particularly nasty but both front wheel arches looked grim compared with the re-painted rear arches.

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The amount of effort that went into cleaning and prepping the inner arches for paint was huge, a lot more work than I expected.

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However, the re-painted inner arches look great. I say that but up close the arches don't look particularly attractive. For some reason, Mercedes Benz didn't think it was necessary to finish the metalwork and sealers to a high standard and left various redundant holes and runs and smears unfinished.

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Next up to be treated was the rusting metal around the aerial. I've been touching up the blisters for years. It didn't look good.

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It looked worse with the aerial removed.

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Not wishing to damage any good paint, I protected the surrounding panels with gaffer tape.

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Wire brushing the metal revealed extensive rot and a small rust hole. Great!

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I applied generous quantities of Kurust and filled and prepped the panel for painting.

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I used a specially mixed aerosol can, then smoothed the paint with 1500 wet and dry paper, then cut it back with T-Cut before polishing. I am pleased with the quality of the repair. The paint match is 99% perfect and the new paint blends in nicely with the old.

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The nets fixed to the rear of the front seats were sagging horribly.

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I tightened up the top string with a cable tie, resulting in less droopy nets.

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Post repairs, the 230E needed a deep wash. Dust got in just about everywhere. 

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Unfortunately, having spent all this time tarting up the 230E, I ended up putting it back in the garage. I promise to take it for a good run once the lockdown is over.

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On 4/13/2020 at 10:29 AM, Pete-M said:

If the big fan is dragging a lot of air through the rad the coolant won't be able to get to normal temp. 

The electric fan is static until the engine temperature gets to approx 90 degrees C, thus it has no detrimental effect on the cooling system and is not causing the over-cooling.

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My 116 280 SE was the same colour as your 230. Lovely colour and mine was in great condition as well, perhaps the paint has 'rust proofing' capabilities or it's just a colour beloved of old duffers that looked after their cars?

Can't offer any advice on the over cooling issue other than it has to be, the fan or the thermostat or the sendor unit. Much help... not!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Last week I had a go at cleaning the 200E's power steering pump reservoir. I previously wiped it over with a Flash wipe and got the crud off it but it didn't come up particularly nice. I didn't bother taking a before photo as I was not expecting great results. With a little wire wool and Brasso action I achieved a bit of bling. I don't like the idea of chroming up parts of the engine bay that were not supposed to be shiny but I do like the look of a restored piece of metal. 

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I did the same on the W123 230E. To be fair the pump wasn't that filthy to start of with.

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The same method was adopted.

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And voila, we have another clean pump.

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On 4/7/2020 at 11:47 AM, The Mighty Quinn said:

Do you have to redo them every year/12'000 miles though?

With long. life oil to ‘spec’ you should be good for 18,000 or 2 years whichever comes first.

Mix the old engine oil with diesel fuel to make a ‘fence flush’..........It makes it flow just that little bit further and just a bit easier for the wood to soak up.   I did all my fences with about 25 litres of ‘mix’.  

Cutting creosote with old oil was a ‘economy dodge’ years ago, it made the creosote go further.  These days, we turn it on it’s head, with a lack of creosote as a carrier for old oil, we use Diesel Fuel.

some say ‘add sugar’ but i’ve never bothered as the fences are sweat enough without it.

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On 4/24/2020 at 4:42 PM, Peter C said:

 

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It looked worse with the aerial removed.

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Not wishing to damage any good paint, I protected the surrounding panels with gaffer tape.

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Wire brushing the metal revealed extensive rot and a small rust hole. Great!

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I applied generous quantities of Kurust and filled and prepped the panel for painting.

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I used a specially mixed aerosol can, then smoothed the paint with 1500 wet and dry paper, then cut it back with T-Cut before polishing. I am pleased with the quality of the repair. The paint match is 99% perfect and the new paint blends in nicely with the old.

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Nice job

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Whilst my W123 is generally a tidy example, the sunroof panel let the side down. Admittedly the fluorescent tube light in my garage exaggerates the problem, however the sunroof panel didn't quite match the colour of the rest of the car.

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Viewed up close, paint finishes along the front section of the sunroof panel were very thin, to the point that grey primer was grinning through. The biggest issue was the presence of millions of micro blisters. Something had to be done!

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I started rubbing down the old paint with 600 grade wet and dry paper. I'm no expert when it comes to car paints, however I've never seen paint come off so quickly.417.thumb.JPG.a3e19a843a500ca88bcb7d70506dd930.JPG

The paint was so bad and I really didn't fancy doing this job twice. I rubbed all the paint down to the primer, which was nice and smooth.

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I was expecting a lot of dust from the aerosol can so I covered up the W123 to prevent it from getting caked.

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I don't have a compressor and I've never held a spray gun in my hand. All I had to work with was aerosol cans, however I know that with patience and perseverance, decent results can be achieved. Once sprayed, I let the paint harden for 24 hours. The next day, I had to flatten the paint with 1500 grade wet and dry paper, then use my polisher and plenty of T-Cut to cut the paint.

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And voila, job done. Once cut back and treated with Autoglym High Resin Polish and Extra Gloss Polish, the sunroof panel looks a treat, nice and shiny and the colour match is good. The paint is very fresh at the moment and will need a little time to quieten down, however I am pleased with the results.

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Yesterday I took the 200E for an essential work related journey to Reading. I parked up in The Oracle multi-storey, which I’ve never seen so empty. The 200E was definitely social distancing!

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On route home, despite the light traffic conditions, a Corsa threw up a stone, which chipped the windscreen. The chip occurred in the field of vision and needs sorting out. Autoglass are coming out on Monday to hopefully repair it.

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Bugger.

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I spent a bit more time today looking into the 200E's coolant situation. Post longer journeys, despite performing perfectly fine, I've been finding very small amounts of mayo on the underside of the coolant reservoir cap.

I carefully removed the bottom radiator hose only to find a gush of clean and blue coolant. I promptly replaced the hose. I removed the hoses from the coolant reservoir and all of them promptly discharged a brown sludge. By pumping the radiator hoses, the brown stuff drained out, leaving the remaining coolant clean and blue. It would seem that the contaminated coolant was only present in and around the coolant reservoir, whilst the rest of the cooling system was functioning happily with clean coolant. I removed the coolant reservoir.

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And to my wife's immense satisfaction I took it to the cleanest place I could find - our kitchen!

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Where I begun to flush the contents of the coolant reservoir. This photo is of flush number fifty. Regardless how many times I flushed it through, more and more crud kept coming out.

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Eventually, after about half an hour of repeated flushing, I got the coolant reservoir relatively clean. I re-assembled the coolant reservoir and all the associated hoses, filled it with fresh anti-freeze, started up the engine with the pressure cap removed and let it reach full operating temperature before going for a drive. When I got back I let the engine cool a bit and had a look inside the coolant reservoir. A quick double finger test revealed that the coolant has remained clean. I need to keep an eye on this over the coming weeks. 

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If the head gasket or cylinder head has somehow failed and oil is finding its way into the coolant, why are the symptoms only visible in and around the coolant reservoir, whilst the rest of the cooling system is clean as a whistle? I haven't touched the coolant reservoir since I bought the 200E over 2 years ago. Could the crud be historic? 

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1 hour ago, Peter C said:

I spent a bit more time today looking into the 200E's coolant situation. Post longer journeys, despite performing perfectly fine, I've been finding very small amounts of mayo on the underside of the coolant reservoir cap.

I carefully removed the bottom radiator hose only to find a gush of clean and blue coolant. I promptly replaced the hose. I removed the hoses from the coolant reservoir and all of them promptly discharged a brown sludge. By pumping the radiator hoses, the brown stuff drained out, leaving the remaining coolant clean and blue. It would seem that the contaminated coolant was only present in and around the coolant reservoir, whilst the rest of the cooling system was functioning happily with clean coolant. I removed the coolant reservoir.

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And to my wife's immense satisfaction I took it to the cleanest place I could find - our kitchen!

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Where I begun to flush the contents of the coolant reservoir. This photo is of flush number fifty. Regardless how many times I flushed it through, more and more crud kept coming out.

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Eventually, after about half an hour of repeated flushing, I got the coolant reservoir relatively clean. I re-assembled the coolant reservoir and all the associated hoses, filled it with fresh anti-freeze, started up the engine with the pressure cap removed and let it reach full operating temperature before going for a drive. When I got back I let the engine cool a bit and had a look inside the coolant reservoir. A quick double finger test revealed that the coolant has remained clean. I need to keep an eye on this over the coming weeks. 

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If the head gasket or cylinder head has somehow failed and oil is finding its way into the coolant, why are the symptoms only visible in and around the coolant reservoir, whilst the rest of the cooling system is clean as a whistle? I haven't touched the coolant reservoir since I bought the 200E over 2 years ago. Could the crud be historic? 

Dishwasher is excellent for car parts cleaning*

*only do this when alone in the house.

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25 minutes ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

M102's can have a gasket issue but you generally get water in the oil as well and mayo on the oil cap. Perhaps the residue is from an old head gasket fail.

 

They're very easy heads to remove though. A shame yours was too old for the M111 engine, that really is a proper thing.

Mine went on Cylinder 4 (right at the back) and presented itself as proper gravy in the coolant.  There was so much of it that it started coming out of the overflow pipe! 

I don't know why I keep coming back to these cars.  I just adore them.  They're been surpassed in pretty much every conceivable, tangible way - and yet there's still something about them. (See - I did it! Praised a 124 without using the words "hewn" or "granite").

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7 hours ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

M102's can have a gasket issue but you generally get water in the oil as well and mayo on the oil cap. Perhaps the residue is from an old head gasket fail.

 

They're very easy heads to remove though. A shame yours was too old for the M111 engine, that really is a proper thing.

According to the World Wide Web, M102 head gaskets cause all sorts of different issues.

 I sat behind an M111 for four years and 60k miles when I had an E220 as my daily. That was a good motor, torquey enough at low rpms but also happy to rev to the red line. I crossed Germany in it at a steady 130MPH. It didn’t miss a beat.

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6 hours ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

A friend in that there London has a factory black 280E Estate, red leather and manual box. About a 1993 I think.

 

It's for sale. He's got a 300D estate as well, recently acquired.

I’ve had two T shape W124s and both had issues with the rear SLS. I’m sticking to the saloons, thank you!

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As I pulled out of the garage last Friday morning I heard an alarming rattle from underneath the car. The rattling turned into a vibration that could be heard and felt through the floorpan. A quick investigation under the car revealed a very rusty and mostly missing exhaust clamp.

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I fashioned a temporary repair, with the only old exhaust clamp I had in my collection of essential spare parts. Surprisingly, by clamping one of the two pipes I managed to completely silence the vibration. Whilst the clamp is visible and hangs very low beneath the car, I am yet to catch it on anything. 

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I called my local Mercedes Benz dealer, however, no surprise, they are shut due to the bug. A quick look on EBay revealed the right part, available for just over a fiver, inc p&p.

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In other news, when I bought the 200E, the front bumper had a nasty scrape on the nearside, which for some reason I have hitherto done nothing about.

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I rubbed down the disturbed plastic and got it as smooth as possible without overly reducing the depth of the plastic.

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A squirt of black paint and job done. Whenever I've sprayed panels with aerosols, I've adopted a technique that provides a smooth finish, however here, I had to work against my brain's instructions to obtain a textured effect. I am pleased with the results.

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Next, I tidied up the front wheel arches. I was not proposing to achieve the level of finish that I achieved on my 230E, all I wanted was to ensure that there is no rust hiding anywhere. I started with the offside wheel arch, which was the subject of welding repairs and waxoil coating in the past. It was all solid but not pretty.

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Painting over waxoil with white paint is never easy. The surface needs at least two coats of paint to hide the oily black mess. However, all is good here and whatever slight surface rust I found is now cleaned up and covered with Hammerite. 

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The nearside wheel arch was in much better condition.

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But I gave it a quick clean anyway. I was impressed with the condition of pretty much everything, considering that the 200E is approaching its 30th birthday. They don't make them like this anymore! I haven't bothered to paint the arches as the 200E can and will be driven in the rain and the arches will no doubt get dirty again before long.

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On 5/19/2020 at 1:20 PM, BorniteIdentity said:

I don't know why I keep coming back to these cars.  I just adore them.  They're been surpassed in pretty much every conceivable, tangible way - and yet there's still something about them. (See - I did it! Praised a 124 without using the words "hewn" or "granite").

Are they still Beirut minicabs, or is that just W123s?

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