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Mercedes Benz - W123 230E & W124 200E - Both happy and working ok


Peter C

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59 minutes ago, Conan said:

The only reason repeater holes aren't drilled is because in the rest of the world, even on Phase 2 and 3 cars don't have them. They're exclusive to the very few market requiring them.

 

Even in Germany or the US the Phase 3 car wouldn't have them.

Agreed.

My comments related to UK spec cars.

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Time to tidy up the little panels beneath the headlights.

Although the panels don't look too bad in the photos, they were both stone chipped and in sunny conditions you could see the rust on the underside of the panels reflecting in the bumper chrome.

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Once  removed the extent of the corrosion was more obvious. Not pretty.

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A quick rub down with some wet and dry and the panels were ready for a couple of coats of Arctic White aerosol.

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Professional working environment.

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Once the paint dried, the panels were easy to re-fit. Job done.

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Another quick look at my old copy of What Car? revealed that the following cars, based on the listed retail prices, could be had for less than a base model W124 200E.

Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 Lusso

Citroen XM Turbo SD

Ford Granada 2.9i GLX

Nissan Maxima 3.0 V6 S

Peugeot 605 SVi 2.0

Renault 25 TXi 2.0 Executive

Rover Vitesse (4 door)

Saab 9000 CS 2.3i

Volvo 940 SE Turbo

All very cool cars! And all of the above have far higher basic specifications. 

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I had to upgrade the speakers. The 200E was still fitted with the original paper cone speakers, which were too weak to handle the 4x50W output of the head unit. Not only are W124 speaker sizes a little odd, all four speakers are fixed by clips rather than traditional screw fixings. 

Thank you Amazon for delivering this little lot:

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I decided to go for 5.25" 3 way speakers for the back shelf and a pair of tweeters for the dash. 

I had to make MDF rings to enable installation of the rear speakers. Do not judge me by the quality of the cutting, my jigsaw is totally knackered and I am amazed that it got the job done at all.

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The speakers fit snugly into the original openings and with the original grilles back on, the installation is completely stealth.

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On the offside, I screw fixed the tweeter to the vent duct. On the nearside I had to use special double sided sticky pads as the design of the duct is different and I could not get my drill to fit into the speaker recess without taking the windscreen out.

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The results are very pleasing. The rear 3 way speakers provide all the mid range and high level rear fill that is required, whilst the tweeters are all that is needed to give a nice surround sound effect. Of course this installation wouldn't be worth bothering with if I didn't have a 12" sub in the boot. 

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Last month I clocked up over a thousand miles in the 200E without a single problem to report. On local journeys, including a few motorway trips, the 200E managed to return 37MPG. Last weekend, on a run to Basingstoke and back and then to the south coast and back, the 200E managed a very impressive 42MPG.

Yesterday afternoon, on route back from London driving home on the M40, I had to brake suddenly when traffic ahead suddenly slowed down. The 200E slowed but the brake pedal felt very soft. When I came off the motorway I had to apply the brakes a few times before arriving at home and on each occasion the brakes were weak and the brake pedal went to the floor. On my driveway, with the engine switched off, I pressed the brake pedal again and heard a distinctive hiss from the offside rear wheel. 

Removing the wheel revealed a pinhole in a corroded brake pipe:

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I arranged to visit my mechanic on Thursday to have the pipe replaced, however that would mean driving the 200E a distance of approx 25 miles. Without brakes? Surely not. I applied some chemical metal around the leaking section of pipe.

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The pedal feels firm and the repair should be adequate to get me to London tomorrow. Fortunately, the foot operated handbrake is very effective, just in case the brakes fail again.

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Surprising and somewhat worrying that pipe wasn't spotted at the last MOT...my garage would have made the rust on the ferrules an advisory as it is, no chance a pipe that crusty would have got through...

 

Obviously you would be wise to go over the whole system with a microscope now...if one pipe is in that state it's highly likely that any others of a similar age are likely to be in a similar state.

Good advertisement for why dual circuit brakes are a good idea though!

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When such has happened to me, I’ve simply crimped the pipe upstream, with a pair of pliers.

It restricts/ stops the fluid reaching the crusty pipe, but you do loose that caliper’s use.  Might be an idea if you feel the pedal dropping again.

 

in extremis cut it through( on a healthier stretch) and bend it back on itself, sharply.  And carry a bottle of brake fluid!

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Admittedly, the brake pipes that extend to the rear wheels are mostly obscured from view by the subframe and are covered with a lot of muck. Where visible, mostly where the pipe connects to the flexi hoses, I covered some of the pipework with waxoil.

This proves a point that even a well maintained and properly MoTd old car can suffer a serious fault.

I’ve checked again this afternoon, the chemical metal repair is holding up and the brake pedal feels good.

Fingers crossed, by this time tomorrow the pipe will be fixed.

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I had a Vito that burst a brake flexi hose on test last week . The ferrule ends are covered with a thick rubber sleeve that hides it all . I changed the burst one and the one on the other side - I barely touched the “good” one and it broke clean off . Scary stuff .

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The temporary repair to the rusty brake pipe worked and I got the 200E safely to my mechanic's place in west London. 

Up on the ramp it goes.

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The rear sub-frame restricts access to the partially concealed brake pipes but removal took all of 15 minutes, allowing for easing of very rusty fixings.

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The nearside brake pipe was also quite rusty and both were replaced with new copper pipes. Job done, the brakes are good again.

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Whilst waiting for the 200E to be fixed, I admired some of the other vehicles stored in the yard.

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The 200E suffered from a misfire whenever started, regardless whether the engine was hot or cold. The misfire would fix itself after 5 seconds, then the engine would run smooth. 

The first fix involved replacement of the spark plugs. The plugs for cylinders 1 and 2 came out easily but for 3 and 4 the plugs were amazing tight. I removed these some time ago but before I washed the engine. Perhaps some water had found its way into the plug recesses and caused the plugs to bind to the head? Anyway, I got the plugs out and fitted four new NGK plugs. The old plugs didn't look too bad. Since replacing the plugs, the misfire has not occurred but as part of my maintenance regime I will shortly be replacing the distributor cap and rotor arm.

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There are two ways of replacing the PAS fluid. One involves draining the fluid completely and re-filling it from the top. I have been warned that draining the system completely can cause problems with air locks on re-filling. The other option is to syphon  out the fluid from the reservoir, re-fill and repeat the procedure until clean. Whilst the fluid will never be 100% fresh, there is no risk of causing any issues with air locks. By using a syringe, I can get 75ml of fluid out at a time. 

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Whilst the 200E was up on a ramp having its brakes fixed, I had a look underneath it and found a few areas of rust that needed attention.

Firstly, the rear sections of the lower wishbone mountings had a lot of surface corrosion. Scraping off the loose stuff revealed 100% solid metal. I coated the metal with waxoil for a factory finish and job done.

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There was also a little of the brown stuff in the offside rear corner, in the gap between the bumper and the rear wing. The same area inside the boot was also showing evidence of surface corrosion.

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Scraping off the loose corrosion revealed a solid panel. A coat of waxoil on the inside and a coat of white Hammerite on the outside should keep the rust at bay.

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What injection system does this run?

If it uses a separate cold start injector that could be involved.  My Saab always stumbled when first started from cold, but it never got any worse so it was left well alone as the injection system otherwise behaved impeccably.

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For some time now I've been putting up with a very annoying squeak every time I pressed and released the clutch pedal. I had enough and had to investigate. A quick look in the footwell revealed only one connection between two moving elements, where the clutch pedal is linked to the pedal spring. A squirt of silicone fluid did not silence the squeak so I begun to take the lower part of the dashboard apart.

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I spent a very hot 30 minutes kneeling down with my head in the footwell and failed to find anything that could be causing the squeak. In the end, I removed the part of the pedal spring that links to the pedal, which I previously squirted with silicone spray and gave it a thorough greasing, right the way round around the pivot. Hey presto, silence. If I did the job properly first time around then I wouldn't have had to waste time looking elsewhere for the squeak. 

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Unfortunately, the misfire on start up is still an issue. It happens almost every time the engine is started, hot or cold. Initially, the engine just feels very rough and lumpy, then whilst settling down you can feel the engine missing on one cylinder, then it finally fires on all four. I replaced the spark plugs but that made no difference. I then bought a new distributor cap and rotor arm, ensuring that I get the correct parts by giving the chap behind the counter my reg details. Spot the difference.

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Fortunately I didn't pay much for the these parts and a quick check revealed that they fit my W123 230E. I'll keep them but will have to get the right parts sooner rather than later.

In other news, I bought a copy of Retro Cars magazine and found a very nice surprise inside.

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I haven't updated this thread for a while mostly because the 200E has been behaving itself, clocking up the miles, with little TLC needed from me. It's taken me to Bristol, Coventry and around the houses and it's been a joy to drive. 

The only thing I've done is replace the front shock absorber top mounts. 

Access to all areas is quite superb:

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No specialist tools needed:

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With the shock absorbers out, I rust proofed the turrets.

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Old and new! I've seen photos of bent bonnets, caused by failure of the mounts, which allow the shock absorber to fly out and punch the underside of the bonnet:

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The lumpy running post start-up is still occurring but not when the car is left standing for 2-3 days. I am sure the problem is down to a leaky injector. One bit of bad news relates to the water pump, which I renewed approx 18 months / 10k miles ago - it's squeaking. I have ordered a posh Febi pump from Germany, which I hope to fit in the very near future. 

Watch out for more updates.

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Great thread and a nice car. The W124 is my favourite Mercedes of all time and I owned one for around 7 years, an E320C in metallic blue, built in 1994 with 1 previous owner and 68,000km when I bought it. I like all the W124 body types but have a particular affection for the Coupe with its frameless doors and other offbeat solutions such as the pneumatic seat tilting and the laminated rear glass. I took ages to track one down that was in good nick, hadn't been lowered with psuedo AMG alloys and loud exhaust and I’d actually intended never selling it, but encountered cash flow problems a few years ago so it had to go, I still miss it. Spec included 5 speed automatic gearbox, full leather trim, electric memory front seats and sunroof as well as a few unusual extras such as a timer operated auxiliary heater and the brick sized OEM GSM telephone built into the front armrest. Once I’d recreated a credit card sized SIM card this turned out to still be fully functional, complete with hands free kit and a sound quality you just don't get these days with bluetooth.  A brilliant summer cruiser with a supple ride (by today's standards), pillarless windows, big sunroof and growly 6 cylinder engine. Hopefully I'll own another some day, though next time I think I'd go for a saloon or estate. Anyway, After reading this thread I wistfully went through some photos taken to sell the car, and here’s a selection.

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In case it's not obvious, it has German plates because I live in Germany.

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Sigh...

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Inspiral_Mondays - that's a lovely looking car but for me it needs more doors. My Mercedes fetish is quite specific. I don't enjoy the luxury aspect of the brand, instead I much prefer the taxi / working cars that you see on the continent, even nowadays. I'd rather have an ex-taxi 200D with a four speed manual transmission than a coupe any day! 

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Update on the squeaking water pump.

Various "experts" on the Facebook W124 forum have suggested that the squeak is due to a worn tensioner idler, not the water pump. As replacement of the tensioner idler is much easier than replacement of the water pump, I'm doing this first. I got a replacement part from Germany, including p&p for £16 and fitted it yesterday. All good so far.

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The auxiliary belt is probably the original and needs replacement. I am picking up a replacement from ECP this morning, assuming of course that they have managed to source the correct part.

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Hopefully with the new tensioner idler and belt fitted the squeak will be sorted. However, if not, I have as a precaution purchased a new Febi water pump. I got it from the same German supplier, including p&p all in for just over £50. Bargain! 

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Test drive and report to come hopefully later today.

 

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I really should read my own posts more often, it would save me some money. Whilst having a tidy up in the garage I found a box with the old belt tensioner that I replaced last year, inside of which was the old idler. I completely forgot that I bought a complete kit when the tensioner broke, including the idler. I highly doubt that an original MB part would have failed after a few months and less than five thousand miles. Never mind, the replacement idler only cost £16 and may come in handy in the future.

New auxiliary belt fitted and tensioner adjusted:

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Afterwards I took the 200E for a long drive and I am pleased to report that silence has been restored. Two things I don't understand. Why the old belt made a metallic sound, like a worn bearing and why the belt was silent one day and very noisy the next. 

 

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On 2/8/2020 at 8:09 AM, Peter C said:

Inspiral_Mondays - that's a lovely looking car but for me it needs more doors. My Mercedes fetish is quite specific. I don't enjoy the luxury aspect of the brand, instead I much prefer the taxi / working cars that you see on the continent, even nowadays. I'd rather have an ex-taxi 200D with a four speed manual transmission than a coupe any day! 

Thanks, I like all W124s and agree the basic ones have a charm of their own, as do the W123s. In fact after I bought the Coupe I very nearly bought a really basic but very well cared for doom blue W124 200E estate T Model to use as every day transport as it became clear the Coupe was basically too good to use day in day out. I ended up being given a company car though which rather put paid to those dreams. I'll get one sometime though.

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23 hours ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

The Coupes are sooo much prettier. Mercedes do that though. The W126 is a pig ugly tank yet the C126 SEC is a really beautiuful thing.

 

The W140/C140 though...........?

Everyone is enitled to an opinion, yours however, is WRONG!  So very wrong, I feel for you, I really do :) 

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In 1980s serials and films, especially in American productions, a W126 was always seen as a status symbol.

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The lease on my Korean SUV is coming to an end within the next 11 months and for a new daily I am considering getting an S-Class Mercedes. As the car will be used all year round, I don't particularly want a mint example, something for £3-4k should be sufficient for my needs.

I would love a W126 300SE (the V8s are too juicy) and I would have bought one last month (£3k via Auto Trader, looked great) but it would have meant leaving it or the SUV standing for 11 months. I would also be up for a W140, again in 6 cylinder flavour. The later cars became infinitely more complicated. The W220, aside from being a rust bucket, has issues with the air suspension whilst the not that old W221, which are available from approx £4k, can be money pits due to complicated electrical issues. 

Decisions decisions. 

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