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pauldoubleyou

Lower arm / locking wheel nut bodge advice

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Right, first of all fuck locking wheel nuts.

 

This is her zafira. Failed its test on lower arms so I proceeded to change one. Went to do the other side and the locking but is so tight I have sheared three keys trying to release it. Tried everything. But I’ll get to that.

 

Question is would I be able, even though I accept it’s difficult, to change a lower arm with the wheel connected? Need to pass its test. Two bolts inside should be easy but the ballpoint won’t be as it’s sort of in the wheel cup.

 

Last question.. has anyone had success of removing a locking wheel nut by welding a large nut onto it and removing with a socket? That’s my next step but I have the fear. There the stupid ones with the rotating collar so just braying a socket on won’t help.

 

 

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Not a lot of help, but whenever I buy a new car (I mean Peugeot, and by new I mean second hand obviously) I bin the locking wheel bolts as quickly as possible. Besides, behind bolt covers who can see you haven't got locking bolts?

 

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I had Mcgard or something locking nuts on the 75. They too had a rotating collar on them. Mate at a garage had a tool you hammered over them and then they unscrewed and you then hammered the nut back out of the tool and binned it. Might be worth asking the mot garage it they have one.

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I've had one stuck before, I had hacked the fucking thing up trying to get it off. I eventually got it using these:

 

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Automotive/d60/Socket+Sets/sd2938/Irwin+Bolt+Grip+Nut+Remover+Set/p63045

 

Hammered the socket into the end of the locking nut and managed to get it with a bar and a length of pipe over it, absolute ball-ache. The wheel nut is still in the end of that socket in my shed.

 

I can't offer any advice on the welding technique but have heard of it before.

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Use a chisel or old flat screwdriver to beast off the rotating collar and then just hammer on the smaller socket as usual.

 

welding a nut on is possible, but you need a LOT of current to get good enough weld penetration and locking nuts are often made of some bullshit metal that doesnt weld very well.

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Use a chisel or old flat screwdriver to beast off the rotating collar and then just hammer on the smaller socket as usual.

 

welding a nut on is possible, but you need a LOT of current to get good enough weld penetration and locking nuts are often made of some bullshit metal that doesnt weld very well.

would this approach work if it’s tighter than my dads wallet?

 

 

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I've had one stuck before, I had hacked the fucking thing up trying to get it off. I eventually got it using these:

 

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Automotive/d60/Socket+Sets/sd2938/Irwin+Bolt+Grip+Nut+Remover+Set/p63045

 

Hammered the socket into the end of the locking nut and managed to get it with a bar and a length of pipe over it, absolute ball-ache. The wheel nut is still in the end of that socket in my shed.

 

I can't offer any advice on the welding technique but have heard of it before.

Was this the on the ones with the rotating collar? I’m game to try anything at this moment in time

 

 

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would this approach work if it’s tighter than my dads wallet?

 

 

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Yeah.

 With the whole "hammer on a smaller socket" thing, it might not work with the first size you try, it needs to be proper fucking tight....ie not a barely too small socket fitted with a few taps of a wee claw hammer, you need to go down a size or two and bash the fucker on with a decent lump hammer.

 

Obviously once unscrewed this leaves the nut well and truly stuck in the socket so you will need a punch to hammer the nut out from the rear of the socket by holding the socket in a vice or sitting it on top of the lip of a larger socket.

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As Dave has said, the socket has to be a tight fit and you have to hammer it all the way down until the socket hits the bottom of the collar. A sledge hammer is good, you can just tap at it with the weight of the hammer (no need to swing it over your shoulder)

Aand most important, when you are trying to turn the socket, use a T bar or a spider not a breaker bar because you just want to turn the socket, not put any sideways force on it

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I was considering loosening the other wheel bolts off and driving it round a car park too tbh, it worked when I was 17 and a wheel fell off my Rover

 

It bounced like fuck down the road and my brake disk made a six foot score down the tarmac. It’s still there too

 

 

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I was considering loosening the other wheel bolts off and driving it round a car park too tbh, it worked when I was 17 and a wheel fell off my Rover

 

It bounced like fuck down the road and my brake disk made a six foot score down the tarmac. It’s still there too

 

 

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TIGHTEN UP the other bolts to take the pressure off the locking bolt, and then try all the other bodges above !

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Can you post a photo of the locking wheel bolt? I've had success with various methods in the past, but it depends on how recessed it is, how much space you have to work with etc.

 

You may have to smash/dremmel the spinning cap off, and then dremmel a slot in the remains of the bolt. That way you can get some sort of tool in there to undo it.

 

The advice about tightening up the other bolts is good too. I would loosen the other bolts 2 turns (no further) drive the car a few hundred yards, then torque the other bolts back up really bloody tight. You may find this is enough to allow the locking bolt to be easily* removed.

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I was considering loosening the other wheel bolts off and driving it round a car park too tbh, it worked when I was 17 and a wheel fell off my Rover

 

It bounced like fuck down the road and my brake disk made a six foot score down the tarmac. It’s still there too

 

 

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This works make sure the other bolts are in but loose and you have a private area of road, left turns right turns hard braking etc will soon either sheer it or loosen it.

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This (welding sections of shit socket to Pug lockng nuts) is the bastard task currently assigned to our very own ScaryOldCortina after I sold the wheels and seats of my 206GTI for nearly as much as I paid for the car.

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Welding works well.......but clean up the wheelbolt first. I used a dremel to cut into that pesky collar too then built up some weld on the head........then got the biggest nut I could find and welded it on. Quite a lot.

 

It came off really easy after that.........probably due to all the heat but I also think it knew I was not fucking about and got scared.

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Last question.. has anyone had success of removing a locking wheel nut by welding a large nut onto it and removing with a socket? That’s my next step but I have the fear. There the stupid ones with the rotating collar so just braying a socket on won’t help.

 

Yes, lots of success with Peugeot ones which are recognised as being the most bastardy in the industry!

 

Find a way of breaking off the rotating bit. You might have to hammer a socket onto it to get it to shear off. Check there isn't a necked shear collar hiding behind it - if there is you'll want to shear this bit off as well. Next get your socket set out and find the biggest 6-sided socket which will fit in the bolt hole in the wheel. Buy plain steel nuts to fit, not stainless, not plated. Get a small wire brush in your drill and clean up the end of the locking nut back to bright steel if you can. Welder up on full blast because you want to get as much heat in as possible and aim the weld right on the locking bolt and let the weld melt into the nut rather than welding the two together, if that makes sense, because it maximises the penetration into the bolt. Fill it right up with weld all in one go. It shouldn't put up too much of a fight once cooled down.

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Jobbed. So I loosened the other buts off two turns and drove about for a bit. Nothing at all.

 

Went home, sprayed plus gas on between the wheel and the disk, heated the locking wheel nut up and then went round the block. It started ticking slightly eventually and I took it home, tightened the other ones up to fuck then it came right off.

 

Remind me never ever to use these ever again.

 

 

f70ab944e0c8c60eebaf8ff10088e867.jpg

 

 

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Jobbed. So I loosened the other buts off two turns and drove about for a bit. Nothing at all.

 

Went home, sprayed plus gas on between the wheel and the disk, heated the locking wheel nut up and then went round the block. It started ticking slightly eventually and I took it home, tightened the other ones up to fuck then it came right off.

 

Remind me never ever to use these ever again.

 

 

f70ab944e0c8c60eebaf8ff10088e867.jpg

 

 

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I'm looking at that and thinking "I may have put my omega wheels on with one of those" might have to remove and junk.

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Well done for getting it off. 

 

I once removed a similar McGard locking bolt by drilling the head off - it was not a particularly easy job and took the best part of an aftenoon.  

 

Some top tips for aspiring wheelnut driller-offers:  The little hole in the centre of the key makes it an ideal template for the pilot hole.   Don't start drilling the key until you've used it to remove all the other locking bolts, which you can then measure to work out the required dimensions of the hole, thereby avoiding going too deep and knackering the hub.  In my case I needed to buy a 13mm drillbit to sever the head of the nut.  The outside of the locking nuts is hardened steel, which was slow going and blunted a few bits until I broke through it.   

 

By the time you reach this stage, you will be well sick of kneeling on your drive so pick a nice day to do it:

 

post-705-0-22412800-1522099069_thumb.jpg

 

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I'm looking at that and thinking "I may have put my omega wheels on with one of those" might have to remove and junk.

Or sometime later when trying to change said wheel on a 1 in 5 hill in the middle of fuck8ng nowhere in the mist thinking. These are going on the bin.

 

Or later still when you notice that one of your wheel nuts has escaped thinking.

 

Better put a locking nut in because that's all I've got in the garage.

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Interesting how much the designs of locking wheelnut vary.  If you look at the McGard one in the photo I posted above, the rotating collar is quite thick compared to the one in drum's video.   It also bears the scars from me trying to split the collar with several brand new chisels, which seemed to be well matched in terms of material hardness, as they were getting just as chewed up as the collar (hence why I changed tack).  Clearly there's no one size fits all method for this!

 

Anyway, a thought: I had a lot of trouble breaking through the hardening on these nuts, and blunted several decent quality drill bits getting through it.   If I had put a big blob of weld on the end of the nut, would that have knackered (/annealed) the hardening, or would I just have had further to drill?  What effect would a dribble of molten weld have on an alloy wheel?

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that reminds me ....  in 2 years I still have not junked my locking wheel nuts .......

 Three of them are in the boot of my omega and ones holding the front wheel on. 

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Interesting how much the designs of locking wheelnut vary.  If you look at the McGard one in the photo I posted above, the rotating collar is quite thick compared to the one in drum's video.   It also bears the scars from me trying to split the collar with several brand new chisels, which seemed to be well matched in terms of material hardness, as they were getting just as chewed up as the collar (hence why I changed tack).  Clearly there's no one size fits all method for this!

 

Anyway, a thought: I had a lot of trouble breaking through the hardening on these nuts, and blunted several decent quality drill bits getting through it.   If I had put a big blob of weld on the end of the nut, would that have knackered (/annealed) the hardening, or would I just have had further to drill?  What effect would a dribble of molten weld have on an alloy wheel?

I thought about welding the collar to the nut then battering a socket over the whole lot.

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I do a lot of stubborn locking nuts, often after other garages/tyre monkeys have failed. My cure all solution is to sleeve over the nut with a short piece of pipe, weld inside of pipe to head of nut then weld a scrap socket into the other end.

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