Jump to content
dozeydustman

Saab 93 - Smuts and knocks. Also fridge.

Recommended Posts

Tried putting a jumper cable between the engine block and battery negative terminal? Makes a nice chunky ground path.

 

 

I don't know if I said it earlier but check the alternator is earthing to the engine correctly too. I had that once years ago & took me ages to find.

 

 

Did all this back in March when the problem first appeared, cleaning up and adding an extra earthing strap between body and engine block did fix the problem. My jump leads are on loan at the moment to my brother, who quite conveniently lives 80 miles away. I'm going to try adding another strap direct from alternator exterior to a nearby grounding point, along with a chunky cable between B+ and battery +ve.

 

Only things on that main positive feed line are alternator, starter, EMU and battery. Going to disconnect each one in turn and see if any resistance along the cable changes. If this makes sod all difference then it's pull out each of the many millions of fuses isolating a circuit at a time to see if there is a change in voltage.

 

Don't have any more car tinker time this evening as have guests for dinner who are due any minute and I'm still yet to get showered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bollocky bollock fuck shitbags.

 

Trying to track down this loss of voltage between the alternator is doing my nut in. Borrowed a set of jump leads to test for dodgy earths.

 

Earthed the engine direct to battery. 12.4v

Earthed the alternator direct to battery. 12.4v

Did the same of the above to the chassis with a known good earth point. 12.4v

 

Earthed alternator to engine. 12.4v

 

Direct alternator feed B+ to battery +ve. 12.4v

 

Removed battery and its mounting box, traced the battery cables to where they distribute around the engine bay. Everywhere had good continuity.

 

Front bumper off, unplugged engine control box connectors, so I could trace the L terminal connecter at the alternator, eventually found it - high resistance. Waggled wire at alternator, and resistance dropped. As the eyelet connector was in good order I nipped back the wire a couple of mil at a time until I found a break. New eye terminal. 13.1v at the battery with the engine running. Superb.

 

So I thought.

 

Went for a drive. Got diesel, came home again. 20 yards from my house dashboard goes haywire and no charge light on again. 11.9v at the battery, and 14.1 at the alternator B+

 

Save from pulling the fuse from each circuit in turn and seeing if that makes a difference or getting another verdict on the condition of the battery, I'm pulling my hair out.

 

Just went out to see if car starts - battery is now flat. A fucked battery or a faulty component really does seem the most likely culprit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the car have a "Battery Main Switch" attached to the positive terminal? Black box with a yellow reset button, meant to cut power in a collision. Not all cars have them, but corrosion causes high resistance in the main battery - solenoid cable. They're not cheap new, but can be easily bypassed if desired. Also check all the fusible links/ Maxi fuses corrosion can cause all sorts of excitement too.

 

More

https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252100

https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the car have a "Battery Main Switch" attached to the positive terminal?

 

 

 

Unless it's hidden away in a fuse box or something, there's nothing that looks like a switch on the +ve battery terminal, I'll take a photo later on. It's just got a battery terminal clamp with 3 wires coming out of it. Next to this there is a push switch with thin wires coming out of it. I think it's something to do with the alarm, but I will check the book of I have checked the 4 in-line fuses on the side of the battery box, one was extremely corroded so gave it a clean with some sandpaper and it now has continuity.

 

The maxifuses in the engine compartment fuse box are all good - tested them this afternoon after I whipped the battery out to charge it. All the minibuses in the engine compartment fuse box are also good. Not tested any relays, and I've yet to go through all those in the boot and passenger door fuseboxes.

 

That's about as far as I got today. It's threatening to rain, I'm tired and hungry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Switch is really obvious, part of positive terminal, so you wouldn't miss it. Looks like this

https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/34119/Battery-Main-Switch-12791308/

 

Push switch will be the alarm bonnet switch.

 

Certainly sounds like a high resistance in either the main earth cable or the main battery- solenoid- alternator cable. If the terminals are all clean, then is it the actual cables and/or terminal crimps themselves?

 

Not that it helps you, but last week I was asked to look at a SAAB that wouldn't turn over. The negative lead looked OK, but swapped it for one off another car & it fired up straight away. Corrosion in one of the crimps?

 

Can't remember how the later 9-3s cables split at the battery, but I have seen a few older SAABs (c900 & 9000) where two cables are crimped into the battery terminal, and corrosion in the crimp itself caused problems. Also at the solenoid where the ring is crimped into the middle of the red cable, then sleeved, so difficult to see the corrosion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've re-read the whole thread, and looking at the picture in post #15 you don't have the main switch. Plunger next to + terminal is indeed the alarm/bonnet switch.

 

You look to have two cable terminals bolted to the + terminal. One will go to the fusebox main terminal, other (thicker?) to the solenoid and then alternator. The wiring diagram from SAAB's WIS that SIC posted #103 shows a 25mm cable from battery to solenoid, and 16mm solenoid to alternator. Voltage (drop) checks you've done suggest a possible break  or resistance in one of these cables, which from memory are part of the engine main loom, not separate cables. 

 

Can you check voltages at the alternator, solenoid and battery, and any differences between the three? Differences may help suggest where a possible break is?

 

Alternatively, can you bypass either both leads, or each one in turn, with either a jump lead or (better) a proper battery cable? Like this Halfords one.

https://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/battery-chargers-jump-starters/halfords-positive-battery-cable-76cm-30

 

SIC's also posted from WIS about earths, and in post 37 you seem to have had some success with a replacement body-engine earth. From the battery negative terminal there should be one cable to the engine earth (G25 in SAAB speak), and one to the main body earth (G2) on the inner wing. There should also be a third earth cable (SAAB "redundant") between the body & gearbox. Has the engine or 'box been out or in bits and one of the earths left off? Or broken/dirty?

 

Looking again at SIC's wiring diagram, the alternator connects to the warning light via the "control module" and the I-bus & P-bus. This is way beyond my knowledge, and I'd usually refer you to a local SAAB specialist with Tech2. I'm in Lancashire, so not local at all...

 

Hope this helps.

 

I could tell you the tale of coming back to an automatic c900 in a car park many years ago. The starter was turning over with the car locked & key in my hand.  Long story short, but the main alternator-solenoid cable (permanent live) ran in the loom next to the ignition switch-solenoid cable, round the back if the turbocharger and the loom had been mis-routed too close to the turbo, cables had melted, and the starter was turning (locked in park fortunately). Full SAAB service history FTW. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for this Finlandia, Stanky very kindly plugged his box of tricks into the ODB port and this revealed a couple of electrical faults, one of which was "Open circuit or short circuit on A/C system." removed the relay and this made no difference so some investigations to do here. Going to whip the engine bay fuse box out to have a look and do some poking around.

 

Also when I put the battery back on this lunchtime, I checked the security of the alternator connections. The B+ lug which was tight the other day was now slightly loose. Nipped the nut up finger tight, felt a little resistance, and then it slipped, so I think there is a knackered thread on this terminal. Couple of new nuts and a shake proof washer or 2 should sort this. Kill or cure. If it makes no difference I'll run another lead direct from Alternator to battery (I hope 16A cable should be sufficient), then again for £5.69 that's probably better than sodding about making one. Might be able to get this done tomorrow.

 

I will in due course check the solenoid terminals for any voltage drop. 

 

Stanky, many thanks for plugging your machine in at the gathering this afternoon. Gives me a lead on what to check for next time I get tinker time, or run out of electricity again. If you need a hand with anything please let me know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the issue may be in the fuse box or wiring to the pump. Given it more thinking this evening and with "Open Circuit or short" could be the relay low current side isn't going to earth when it gets a 12v feed so the relay doesn't click on, especially as when the high current side was bridged with wire the compressor started up.

 

Going to get a handful of M8 nuts and suitable shake proof washers tomorrow and a generic battery lead just to go direct from alt to battery. Hopefully that will restore reliability and chargeables. Will go a bit belt and braces. Will still check the voltage at the starter solenoid terminal as the drop could be between the alternator and solenoid.

 

The MAF sensor could be a cause of the smoke, along with the shagged swirl flaps. Just wish the latter wasn't a manifold off job, as I hate doing cambelts even on simple engines like Pintos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If it makes no difference I'll run another lead direct from Alternator to battery (I hope 16A cable should be sufficient), then again for £5.69 that's probably better than sodding about making one. Might be able to get this done tomorrow..

If you mean a second cable OK, but if you mean a replacement then 16A will be too small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just an update now I have fixed the charging system with a kwalitee* repair. No EML on either for a while now having checked over the MAF sensor wiring and cleaning the connections. Still not taken over 50 miles in a single run yet so still time for it to come on and bugger up my journey.

 

List of jobs:

  1. Limp mode - faulty accelerator pedal? Also read somewhere it could be swirl flaps - Hasn't come on for a while.
  2. Fault with MAF sensor circuit - wiring from this in loom hasn't been hacked and appears not to have any breaks. Will order new one.
  3. Excessive smoke - clean the manifold, EGR & turbo? Could also be MAF sensor
  4. Headlamp washer jets piss water everywhere when washer reservoir is full - inline valve for pipe has arrived, fitting this afternoon (subject to weather)
  5. Ditchfinder rear tyre.
  6. Dashboard mounted cupholder is broken (this is high on the wife's priorities, not mine, but worth mentioning)
  7. Few bits of interior trim missing.
  8. Sluggish starting, though possibly caused by not having had a good run for at least a month now and glow plugs are kaput.
  9. Air Con buggered - Stanky's magic box diagnosed an open circuit on the wiring, now just to find where (it's not the relay). Shorting high current side of the relay socket makes air-con switch on and work quite nicely.
  10. Exhaust is boomy when hot - coming from exhaust manifold where swirl flap isn't seating properly.
  11. Need to find which ABS sensor is causing the system to register a fault every now and then.

 

One question I do need to ask - will removing the swirl flaps, cleaning out the EGR & manifold reduce the smoke, especially when cold?

 

I do really like this car and want to keep if at all possible (or replace with another). When it works properly, it does give me many smiles per mile, but in a different way to a chuckable little car like a 205 or a Mini.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EML light came on today. I put £20 of weasel in the tank after work and drove to Southampton and back just to road test her. 60 miles in before we got limp home mode. Before this we had a few kangaroo moments before the light came on.

 

This sounds very much dieing MAF sensor to me, so that's defo next thing to buy.

 

The run did it some good though. Did a massive regeneration on the journey down, to the point of proper glowing smuts coming out the tailpipe. Then NO SMOKE. none at all even making the turbo spool up under load in too high a gear. WIN.

 

Still need to sort out the flap problem, unless I win Cavcrafts 107

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hooli

I'd read the codes before buying parts to throw at it. Cheapo code readers are so cheap these days its daft not too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No MAF related codes came out when we ran it through my Delphi a few weeks ago - at least I don;t think any did. There were a couple of codes, but none engine-related.

 

DD, if you're over this way again give me a shout - more than happy to plug it in again and see what its telling us now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hooli

My code reader was under £5 & gets engine codes ok off my Saab, probably cheaper than driving to Stanky!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd read the codes before buying parts to throw at it. Cheapo code readers so cheap these days its daft not too

 

 

Stanky did that for me at the Sussex meet up last month. They were:

 

ABS sensor intermittent fault x2 - think it's both rears.

Something intermittent fault.

Short or open circuit air-con circuit

 

I've bought 2 cheap code readers in the last few months that have been DOA. Thankfully I can clear the EML by removing the warning light wire from the alternator then going for a 10 minute drive.

 

 

No MAF related codes came out when we ran it through my Delphi a few weeks ago - at least I don;t think any did. There were a couple of codes, but none engine-related.

 

DD, if you're over this way again give me a shout - more than happy to plug it in again and see what its telling us now!

 

 

There were 4 faults altogether, I can't remember the 4th one though! Got a lot on for the next couple of weeks or so but when I got a spare afternoon or something I'll drop you a line  :grinning-smiley-043:

 

There's an 08 plate Vector Sport Wagon TiD in a local breakers and they've said I can have the MAF sensor for a tenner. It's a rear collision write off - wondering how much he'd take for the whole engine as it's only got 93k on the dial by all accounts.

 

Did you see my recommendations re: home-brew on the what are you drinking thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hooli

It'll have stored a new code now the light is back on, that's why I said read them again. You might be right on the fault, but it helps prevent guessing.

 

I've got https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torque-ELM-327-Bluetooth-V2-1-OBD2-OBDII-Car-Diagnostic-Auto-Scanner-Code-Reader/282940682739?epid=1442054158&hash=item41e09431f3:g:oDQAAOSwhHFbMI72 although mine is an earlier version (which SiC said is better). Links to an app on my phone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll have stored a new code now the light is back on, that's why I said read them again. You might be right on the fault, but it helps prevent guessing.

 

I've got https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torque-ELM-327-Bluetooth-V2-1-OBD2-OBDII-Car-Diagnostic-Auto-Scanner-Code-Reader/282940682739?epid=1442054158&hash=item41e09431f3:g:oDQAAOSwhHFbMI72 although mine is an earlier version (which SiC said is better). Links to an app on my phone

 

 

Possibly a new code, but the symptoms are the same as when it came on beforehand - a bit of a cough & splutter, some kangarooing, go like shit off a shovel, then limp mode after 15 mins. Will try this reader, what app do you use for it? And does it connect to a Sinclair Spectrum 48k?

 

Meanwhile, on Bookface marketplace, there's a nice looking Hyundai Matrix locally by the look of things for a couple hundred quid. I need a car with the indicator on the correct side of the wheel, fed up with putting the wipers on all the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since my last post I've had 3 months of trouble-free motoring with this old heap, albeit with the ABS & ESP fault lights on, until Xmas eve.

 

Monday evening, driving along the M26 to the Wrotham hill turn off en-route to visit family, ABS & ESP lights went off, EML light came back on and limp mode was enabled. It's also done 4 DPF regens in the last 2 weeks, which to me seems excessive given the DPF is about a year old and it only gets used for the family's long runs.

 

I have asked the fitter at work if he has any ideas why one fault should clear and immediately a new one develops. He said unless coincidental, then the ECU is probably shot. He's going to read the codes for me tomorrow if he doesn't have too many breakdowns and defects to attend to. Given the occasional mechanical knock I'm going to cut my losses with this car at MoT time. Shame, as until I had the Alternator incident a year ago it was completely reliable.

 

There'll be plenty* of roffles between now and then I should imagine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear that DD, when's the MOT due? Have you got long to sort out an alternative? 

 

Let me know if it is being bridged and you're open to the idea of picking some bits off, I need a few little things and would be happy to exchange beer tokens for them if you're amiable to the idea

 

(also sorry to sound like a vulture)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MoT is up in early May, so it gives me plenty of time to find something that is a little more stepdaughter insurable. I still have a pushbike to get to work, or a pair of working legs. Hoping a smoll vehicle with a smoll engine comes up on here or locally for a decent price.

 

Fitter plugged his reader into it and it came up with 19 different codes, cleared them all, 8 came up on restart, cleared them, and there are still about 4 that won't clear. And I had limp mode again on way home from work.

 

I'll let you know nearer the time before I get rid of it, see if you still need anything, or indeed the entire car for spares.

 

Time to transfer the plate beckons....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further updates. Given the Saab has proved very reliable over the last few months with no charging issues, the ABS fault has cleared (cure below) and a lot more regular use over the winter, the only thing preventing this car getting another MoT in the next few months is emissions and the leaky swirl flap. It's booked in with my dad's friendly mechanic for a pre-MoT check in march, so if it just need consumables and the exhaust fannymold sorting, I'll get it through.

 

 

List of jobs:

  1. Limp mode - faulty accelerator pedal? Also read somewhere it could be swirl flaps - Swirl flap actuator is knackered, so I plan to get this done.
  2. Fault with MAF sensor circuit - replaced, no faults 
  3. Excessive smoke - clean the manifold, EGR & turbo? - use non-supermarket diesel helps, as does a bloody good run 2-3 times a week.
  4. Headlamp washer jets piss water everywhere when washer reservoir is full - New inline valve fitted and has reduced the flow but not stopped it.
  5. Ditchfinder rear tyre - It's legal, it's not knackered, it can stay for the time being
  6. Dashboard mounted cupholder is broken (this is high on the wife's priorities, not mine, but worth mentioning)
  7. Few bits of interior trim missing.
  8. Sluggish starting, though possibly caused by not having had a good run for at least a month now and glow plugs are kaput.
  9. Air Con buggered - Stanky's magic box diagnosed an open circuit on the wiring - Can't find a fault with wiring, bridging high current side makes pump engage, so will do this if the car gets through an MoT.
  10. Exhaust is boomy when hot - coming from exhaust manifold where swirl flap isn't seating properly.
  11. Need to find which ABS sensor is causing the system to register a fault every now and then - using a calibrated airline when I checked the tyre pressures seems to have sorted this.

 

I'm hoping that a swirl flap delete or replace will sort the smokiness out, as it's only when the turbo spins up from low revs it's claggy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Similar Content

    • By strangeangel
      I thought I'd start a thread for this as I'll probably end up asking all sorts of questions, given that this is my first 'proper' Citroën.
       
      So... the ground clearance lever won't go all the way to the highest setting (all others work), which is bad 'cos the book says I need it to do that in order to check the LHM level. It feels like something's seized, so I don't want to force it. Any ideas for a plan of attack would be much appreciated.
       
      Next up are the wheels. I now have a set of 205 pepperpots that have just gone off for powder coating & I need to get some tyres for them. The handbook says the car should have 165/70R14s on, the wheels came with 185/65R14 on. Any thoughts about what size I should get please? Cheers.
       
    • By Peter C
      Woke up this morning, had a little time before I had to leave the house for work, had a quick look at what’s new for sale on Retro Rides and saw an ad for a W124 200E manual, located 15 miles from home. I had no intention of buying a car today but I had to have it! I called the seller and arranged a viewing.
       
      Faults:
       
      2 x rusty front wings (TADTS)
      1 x rusty rear arch
      Needs a polish
      Tracking is out because new track rod end was fitted for MoT
      Engine has oil leak/s
       
      Good points:
       
      It’s a W124 200E!
      5 speed manual transmission
      New clutch
      Brand new MoT
      Superb MoT history
      4 x as new Continental tyres
      Last owner for 15 years, her husband before that for 4 years
      Very tidy MB-Tex interior
      Drives well
      All electrics work
       
      The dealer kindly delivered the car to my house but I managed a pez station shot on route:
       

       
      Plans:
       
      Remove front wings, cut away rust and apply plenty of wob.
      In-situ similar repair for rear arch
      Clean and polish
      Service engine
      Adjust tracking
      Leave patina and enjoy the car as it is
       
      I will update this thread once progress is made.
       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       
      Hopefully these two will become good friends.
       

    • By Zelandeth
      Well I've been meaning to sign up here in forever, but kept forgetting. Thanks to someone over on another forum I frequent poking me about it recently the subject was forced back into my very brief attention span for long enough to get me to act on the instruction.

      I figure that my little varied fleet might bring you lot some amusement...

      So...we've got:

      1993 Lada Riva 1.5E Estate (now fuel injected, as I reckon the later cars should have been from the factory...).
      1989 Saab 900i Automatic.
      1987 Skoda 120LX 21st Anniversary Special Edition.
      1985 Sinclair C5.
      2009 Peugeot 107 Verve.

      Now getting the photos together has taken me far longer than I'd expected...so you're gonna get a couple of photos of each car for now, and I'll come back with some more information tomorrow when I've got a bit more time...

      Firstly...The Lada. Before anyone asks - in response to the single question I get asked about this car: No, it is not for sale. Took me 13 years and my father's inheritance to find the thing.



      Yes, it's got the usual rusty wings...Hoping that will be resolved in the next couple of months.







      Next, a proper old Saab. One of the very last 8 valve cars apparently, and all the better for it. I've driven two 16v autos and they were horrible - the auto box works sooooo much better with the torque curve of the 8 valve engine. Just wish it had an overdrive for motorway cruising...






      Next up a *real* Skoda...back when they put the engine where it belongs, right out the back. In the best possible colour of course...eye-searingly bright orange.





      Seat covers have been added since that photo was taken as it suffers from the usual rotting seat cloth problem that affects virtually all Estelles.

      Then we have possibly the world's scruffiest Sinclair C5...



      Realised when looking for this that I really need to get some more photos of the thing...I use it often enough after all! We have a dog who's half husky, so this is a really good way of getting him some exercise.

      Finally - again, I really need to take more photos of - we have the little Pug 107.



      Included for the sake of variety even if it's a bit mainstream! First (and probably to be the only) new car I've bought, and has been a cracking little motor and has asked for very little in return for putting up with nearly three years of Oxford-Milton Keynes commuter traffic, before finally escaping that fate when my housemate moved to a new job. Now it doesn't do many miles and is my default car for "when I've managed to break everything else."

      I'll fill in some more details tomorrow - I warn you though that I do tend to ramble...














×
×
  • Create New...