Jaguar S Type..........FTP. Help/Advice needed.

[0ldCh0d]

I hope some Jaguar minded person can help here..

 

My Dads Jaguar S Type had a FTP yesterday/today.  

 

He went out to start it, turned on the ignition, turned the key to start it &.......Nothing....not even a click. The dash lights seem to be lit up OK, & it had been starting perfectly fine every time, up until yesterday.

 

I had a try today, & it is the same, turn key to start it & nothing at all?...

 

 Has anyone heard of this, or can offer any advice?

 

Putting your foot on the brake to release the gear lever does not seem to be working either.

 

 

it is a 3.0 V6, 2003.

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Furious]

Do you normally have to put your foot on the brake to start it?  If so that would tie in nicely with not being able to release the gear leaver and suggest a brake-pedal position switch.

 

If not then since they seem to be related then my next port of call would be the start-inhibitor switch on the gearbox (that prevents it starting if its not in P or N)

 

I don't know Jaguar specifically but bypassing this should be relatively straightforward. 

[Guest]

Yep ^^^^ Good advice. Also try wiggling the gearstick whilst holding the key in start- Auto Saab's were bad for this too

[0ldCh0d]

Thanks for the replies. By wiggling the gear stick, do you mean do this when trying to turn it over?

 

As for the inhibitor switch....I did not think of that.

 

I at first thought it might be the battery, but, the car had been starting perfectly fine right up until yesterday, no matter what the weather.

[bangernomics]

If you’re near Manchester I have the old dealer level diagnostic tool.

[0ldCh0d]

If you’re near Manchester I have the old dealer level diagnostic tool.

 

Unfortunately not near Manchester. Thank you for the offer though. 

[DodgeRover]

Aren't these mega sensitive to battery voltage? Stick some jump leads to it from a running vehicle and see if it suddenly comes back to life.

Also could it be a faulty brake light switch?

[0ldCh0d]

Aren't these mega sensitive to battery voltage? Stick some jump leads to it from a running vehicle and see if it suddenly comes back to life.

Also could it be a faulty brake light switch?

 

I don't know about voltage sensitivity on these, but being modern(ish) probably. The strange thing is though, the car had been perfectly fine up until yesterday. The ignition lights illuminate as normal, with no dimming & when you turn they key...they stay the same brightness.

 

I know that does not rule out a duff battery however.

 

Also, my Dad mentioned the brake light switch, so we checked to see if the brake lights are coming on & they are all fine.

[Guest]

Just had a flashback to one I went out to on the breakdowns- shared all your symptoms, as well as the steering lock not disengaging, and a flashing immobiliser light- found the ECU plug to be loose, gave it a wiggle and it fired right up. Worth a try, up above the pedals IIRC.

[Captain Furious]

“I know that does not rule out a duff battery however.“

 

Well, it kinda does, if the battery were that low then all your dash lights would die as soon as you turned the key.

 

Also then switch for the gearbox/start inhibitor on the brake pedal will be different to the switch that is used for the brake lights, so those working doesn’t necessarily rule that out.

[0ldCh0d]

“I know that does not rule out a duff battery however.“

 

Well, it kinda does, if the battery were that low then all your dash lights would die as soon as you turned the key.

 

Also then switch for the gearbox/start inhibitor on the brake pedal will be different to the switch that is used for the brake lights, so those working doesn’t necessarily rule that out.

 

I stand corrected. I will investigate this more tomorrow, I appreciate everyone's suggestions so far. Thank you.

[Split_Pin]

Mind that a dying battery can appear 100% fine one day and then stone dead the next. Worth a shot before you spend on/disturb elsewhere.

[cpjitservices]

I know from experience, these cars need good batteries!

[dieselnutjob]

XJs (largely the same electronics) are famous for throwing a temper tantrum if the battery is below par as well.

Also the standard fix for all ECU gremlins on XJs is to disconnect the battery for a few minutes and reconnect it (make sure you have the radio code etc).

I would have thought that if it was a weak battery then connecting it with good jump leads to another car would fix that.

I am trying to remember whether my XJ has to be in P to start or whether you can also start it in N.  I really don't remember but I will try later.

[cpjitservices]

With the S Type you can do a factory reset to which is recommended if you change the battery, simply, remove old battery and touch both  + and -  terminals together for a couple of minutes and leave to settle. 

 

My old battery was idling at 11.1v - Not enough to start the engine, then when I boosted the battery it would idle at 12.3 enough to start it but meant ABS fault showed, DSC was fault, and EPB was stuck on.

 

New battery and its perfect.

[DodgeRover]

Are these things fitted with a smart* alternator because the above just sounds down right wierd,,,

[hauserplenty]

There could be a defective cell in the battery. I recommend you load test it. The dash lights may not draw enough current to cause dimming and could thus be misleading. Do the lights dim when you turn the key? Also try removing, filing, then replacing each connector.

[0ldCh0d]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. Still no further forward with this, however, being a weekday & working, it is hard to get the proper time to spend

on the car. Today, We had a brief go at getting to the bottom of this problem.

 

When turning on the ignition, the lights are as normal, then when you turn the key to start it, it turns as normal, but nothing at all happens, the ignition lights do not go dim or anything.

 

What I did notice however, when the ignition is turned on, the display comes up....DSC Fault, ABS Fault & Gearbox Fault......But the car was perfectly fine right up until this happened. So....I am thinking some sensor has fucked up somewhere. 

 

I also tried what Barry Cade suggested, Turn the key as if starting it & try gently move the gear stick at the same time....but it does not move from P........

 

I also had a quick look up at the Brake light switch on the brake pedal as suggested by Captain Furious....Both the switches & plugs into them looked & felt fine, with no signs of loose connectors etc. 

 

My Dad also removed the battery last night after I posted on here, to see if it was possibly needing a small charge up, but when he connected the battery charger, that said that the battery was fully charged already. 

 

So, he put the battery back in today, & it has not made any difference, the car is still the same. 

 

Time will be spent at the weekend on it (if the weather is not shit) & hopefully, get to the bottom of this.

 

Again, thanks for all your suggestions, any help is very appreciated.

[Parky]

Wifes Fiat 500 did something similar. Car was dead but all lights inside worked.

 

Second attempt to start set off various warnings - no fuel, low oil pressure, it was only when it started bleeping on about overheating that I knew it was lying.

 

Result was a dead cell in the battery. From perfectly fine to useless in an instant. Connected up a new battery and all was well. Not saying it's your problem but may be. Have you tried getting a jump from something else so it definitely has a proper ampage to play with? - obviously only do that if you can, some moderns are very temperamental about that sort of thing.

 

Mr Cade might be able to advise as to the wisdom of that course of action

[0ldCh0d]

Wifes Fiat 500 did something similar. Car was dead but all lights inside worked.

 

Second attempt to start set off various warnings - no fuel, low oil pressure, it was only when it started bleeping on about overheating that I knew it was lying.

 

Result was a dead cell in the battery. From perfectly fine to useless in an instant. Connected up a new battery and all was well. Not saying it's your problem but may be. Have you tried getting a jump from something else so it definitely has a proper ampage to play with? - obviously only do that if you can, some moderns are very temperamental about that sort of thing.

 

Mr Cade might be able to advise as to the wisdom of that course of action

 

We did not try that, but as you say, it might be sensitive to this...& I dont want to be held responsible by my Dad for frying something..lol. But if advised it is ok to try, then we will give it a try. 

[DodgeRover]

Look everybody so far has said the first thing to do is try the battery, just stick some jump leads on to it from another car before you go any further.

[bub2006]

Starter motor relay?

[AMC Rebel]

My X350 pulled all sorts of shit like this when the earth points had disintegrated.

 

S Type beards along with everyone on here will say this is the battery all day long (and with good reason there do seem to be a lot of examples reported).

 

I dimly recall a bit of the wiring loom that runs through the front wheelarch causing trouble on these.

 

The electrical wiring on these can be shocking.

[cpjitservices]

Those 3 faults are all sign of the battery, i know from experience. I have an S Type and have had them in the past also Seen this many times.

[Isaac Hunt]

Battery on my x_Type died at 5 years old and I had the car new. No symptoms, unlocked it one day, put key in ignition, lights came on as usual, turned to start and 'all hell let loose'. Central locking was chattering away and the dash lit up like Blackpool. The battery had suffered instant failure when asked to deliver cranking current.

 

Don't rule out the battery

[Guest]

Everyone's diving on the battery... s'not the battery. Best way to test the battery is, to test the battery.. Drop tester is the right and quickest way, or spend a tenner on a digital multimeter, connect it to the battery, switch on the ignition and put on every electrical item you can and watch the voltage. If it holds more than about 11.5v for a few minutes, then returns to over 12v after everythings switched off, then it's OK enough to turn the car over.

 

Test the starter motor. Get under the car..making sure handbrake is on and in park. Switch on ignition and bridge the main battery lead to the small spade terminal. If it turns over, starter (and battery) are OK.

 

Next in line- check you are getting 12v to the starter solenoid when the key is turned. Get your voltmeter, earth to a clean metal point on engine, + to thin wire to starter solenoid and get someone to turn the key to start. If you get 12v +, then rule out ignition switch,starter inhibitor, starter motor,battery and immobiliser. 

 

If you don't get 12v+ then the issue is between the ignition switch and starter- most likely on these, as I've found, the plug that goes into the ECU. Had this on an X-Type and it fell apart when I touched it.

 

Be logical. Or guess. 1 way is expensive, the other will get to the root of the problem.

[hauserplenty]

Barry Cade is correct, and I should add by clarification that this is in fact a way to load test the battery in situ, but the use of either a digital battery tester or a carbon pile load tester is a more direct means of accomplishing the same. Many roads, one destination. An open-circuit voltage test, which is simply connecting a multimeter to the battery without any other loads such as described above, is inaccurate, as it does not load the battery enough for the fault to become evident. A 12V battery has 6 cells at 2.1V each, for a total of 12.66 fully charged, but a multimeter is designed not to load circuits so does not provide voltage under load on its own, only voltage at rest. Which tells you something, I grant you, just not what you need to know in this case. You first need to rule out a duff battery, and the quickest way to do this is with a jump start, then by the most feasible method of load testing (in situ or external load tester.)