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5 hours ago, garbaldy said:

Thats just it there is absolutely nothing wrong with Bollox,s posts at all,  his posts are his opinion and he's entitled to hold them and voice them, he as well as all members should not be moderated for that, if people don't like it they shouldn't read them,  

I remember his posts not understanding all the hate towards over zelouse moderation as he was not affected,  it seems now that this forum has now lost one of the old school better contributors, how many more have to go before people realise what the fuck is going on,   

What was it again we ended up with moderators for ? ah that's right dealing with spambots wasn't it.

Great job folks great job.

In retrospect, the spambots were less destructive. Driving away Mr Bo11ox, a member whose contributions shaped the tone of the board since practically day one, is all the evidence one needs that the needless moderation of this forum has been an abject failure. The beige slowly becomes the grey in an effort to achieve, what? The car forum equivalent of a soft play area? Whatever the moderators believe they are achieving, the wholly unnecessary moderation of this board has only caused division and upset. 

No, News24 is not an appropriate thread for this discussion, but when there was a dedicated thread on the matter it mysteriously vanished without trace. Well, not entirely without trace - someone smarter than me had the foresight to archive it, and that is still available. 

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I think someone has tried to balance the bad moderation of two years ago with another bad moderation. Like when the ref realises he shouldn't have sent a player off, so sends one of the opponents off to make amends. The problem of course was with the first sending off. That and the fact the game was two years ago and it was a different ref!

Maybe if Mr Bollox had made a stand against the poor moderation the first time around the forum wouldn't have lost so many members.

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5 hours ago, Sheefag said:

This debacle has Ursula von der Leyen's prints all over it.

She has fingerprints? I thought lizards had that shiz genetically engineered out.

  

52 minutes ago, Conrad D. Conelrad said:

In retrospect, the spambots were less destructive. Driving away Mr Bo11ox, a member whose contributions shaped the tone of the board since practically day one, is all the evidence one needs that the needless moderation of this forum has been an abject failure. The beige slowly becomes the grey in an effort to achieve, what? The car forum equivalent of a soft play area? Whatever the moderators believe they are achieving, the wholly unnecessary moderation of this board has only caused division and upset. 

No, News24 is not an appropriate thread for this discussion, but when there was a dedicated thread on the matter it mysteriously vanished without trace. Well, not entirely without trace - someone smarter than me had the foresight to archive it, and that is still available. 

There's a word for that; greige. It's a bit rubbish, except on a car interior obvs. People are politics, it can't be wished away and some get upset by it. Getting upset is part of being an adult, as is dealing with it. Although excising it to a separate forum works for me the 'secret super special permission only XXX secret knock only' forum is a crappy compromise. Have it in the open or not at all.

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5 hours ago, brownnova said:

Can I assure you that these concerns are heard, and I will take these backstage and discuss with the other mods. I too would be loathe to lose the colour from the forum... just because it is beige in colour shouldn’t mean we’re only beige in content!

However, can I ask that we keep this thread to news about our cars/news and if there are concerns that you would like to air I will happily listen to/discuss them by PM

I'm sure they are heard. Shame they haven't been listened to or taken seriously for the last 8 years. 

You will? What about the other Mods?  I'd hope that they should actually read stuff they need to moderate themselves and get an understanding of the tone of a convo.

It's grey, and has been for a while. That is a self inflicted injury. Stop the rot first, then try and reverse it appropriately - not some staged grand gesture which inevitably will lead to a 'told you so' when a spat gets out of hand.

You can ask, because in green you speak as a Moderator. Something that no-one else is allowed to do about subjects which are Forbidden without a technical glitch.  You shouldn't, because that misses the whole point and just confirms nothing has changed in the Politburo. 

Ps, and I can't believe I'm qualifying this, this is not Post-on-Poster, or Posting-for-Efffect ) which should be Moderated imho, but an actual opinion about the actions, not the person. 

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5 hours ago, Ghosty said:

I've made noises about keeping political discussions out of AS in the past, as this is a place I come to as respite, it's just a place for people that like old cars, and I wanted that for all of us. 

The way things panned out wasn't what I'd hoped for at all.

Then don't read the threads or the politics bit. Like you wouldn't watch a TV channel or read a paper. A choice to not be offended or upset.

You've wanted something for all that the 'all' didn't want and seem surprised by the outcome when Big Brother type controls were imposed. That kind of arrogance, well-meaning or otherwise, has lead here. It's a forum, not your or anyone elses safe space. 

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I don’t think politics should be moderated, but I do think than anyone that expresses racism, homophobia, sexism or transphobia should be.

Sometimes it seems being a bit racist is confused with politics, where in fact it’s just being a bit racist. 

I think this should include any hilarious “jokes” at the expense of these communities. 

Then we could live in a more colourful world.., live and let live etc.. that’s what we’re all after, right? 

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I mean, what about invisibly sweeping away spambots etc (as was the prime intention originally) and letting the forum moderate itself. Natural selection- those that for whatever reason decide it’s not for them can either stay away from that specific content and what have you. 
 

Sadly people being cast from the highest tower because of a lack of tolerance of what is said/ written reminds me of so much that dismays me about other social media.

 

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12 minutes ago, Fabergé Greggs said:

I don’t think politics should be moderated, but I do think than anyone that expresses racism, homophobia, sexism or transphobia should be.

To be fair, that's what the rules say.

 

The report appears to have been for breaking the "no politics" rule, which isn't a rule.  But the moderation was for causing "deliberate offence".  Boll says this in his post.  And to be fair, that is a rule.  

There's some good discussion on this on the dark wob, as well as the odd troll of course.

A bit more transparency and a bit less "send a PM if you have concerns" would be good here tbh.  As is always the case.  No, news24 probably isn't the place for it; maybe make a place and leave it there?

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On 2/13/2021 at 9:35 AM, Fabergé Greggs said:

I don’t think politics should be moderated, but I do think than anyone that expresses racism, homophobia, sexism or transphobia should be.

Sometimes it seems being a bit racist is confused with politics, where in fact it’s just being a bit racist. 

I think this should include any hilarious “jokes” at the expense of these communities. 

Then we could live in a more colourful world.., live and let live etc.. that’s what we’re all after, right? 

This place successfully self moderated itself for years. The problems have coincided with a self-electing layer of unqualified and unnecessary management and a slow creep of homogenisation and intolerance of view. The last time I saw anything resembling this, the forum involved was being secretly sanitised for sale and now resembles a desert.

If for example, Mr B wants to publicly call me a knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing racist, I won't agree with his opinion but in no way would I want him silenced.     I would reserve the right to laugh and take the piss, mind.

It's beginning to resemble a modern centre of further education. Let it go back to the adults self moderating themselves and the problems will cease.

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Ugh. This is all rather disappointing. 

The only rules we need are the ones that are enforced upon us by the host of the board, and the laws of that respective country. That’s it. 

Therefore, you need two or maybe three people (so the keys aren’t all held by one person) who are there to make sure we stay legal and that’s it. 

I look forward to that happening. 

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Disappointing but predictable. Once more Tony Benn's Five Essential Questions of Democracy spring to mind.

How are moderators here appointed? I don't know but I'd enjoy sight of the process.

Thing is, it's not so much that more even-handed moderation is required, less moderation overall is the answer.

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21 minutes ago, Sheefag said:

Disappointing but predictable. Once more Tony Benn's Five Essential Questions of Democracy spring to mind.

Edmund Burke (the full text) as well. Those who tried to steer the ship back on course were held accountable for the unaccountables actions in a twist worthy of the best. 

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It’s a crying shame he’s gone, it really is.  

 

Ask yourself this: if you contribute more trolling than worthy content, and more whining to the moderators than someone who is the polar opposite, how come the latter goes but the former stays?

 

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8 minutes ago, Cavcraft said:

It’s a crying shame he’s gone, it really is.  

 

Ask yourself this: if you contribute more trolling than worthy content, and more whining to the moderators than someone who is the polar opposite, how come the latter goes but the former stays?

 

I'll think you'll find that Mr Bollox was one of the most outspoken members on here.  Yet others have been silenced for saying far less.  I know he certainly pee'd me off with his comments about remberance stickers but I never felt the need to report him for it as everyone is allowed a view point. 

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20 minutes ago, Cavcraft said:

It’s a crying shame he’s gone, it really is.  

 

Ask yourself this: if you contribute more trolling than worthy content, and more whining to the moderators than someone who is the polar opposite, how come the latter goes but the former stays?

 

Because he chose to go. He could just stick to car threads. 

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20 minutes ago, Cavcraft said:

It’s a crying shame he’s gone, it really is.  

 

Ask yourself this: if you contribute more trolling than worthy content, and more whining to the moderators than someone who is the polar opposite, how come the latter goes but the former stays?

 

It's the follow on from your shameful actions as a moderator 2 years ago, where you made it clear dissenting options would not be tolerated by unilaterally deleting members accounts then lying about it.

The subsequent rewriting of the modgate thread to represent your version of history should tell you all you need to know.

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The world as I see it has become a lot more politicised and polarised in recent years mainly due to Bre*it with all sides believing they are right in the real world this caused real friction so I for one see the need to try and keep things sensible here, everyone can bemoan "its not how it used to be" but the world isn't either, if many of these discussions had continued unabated we could have lost far more members than if politics had been allowed to pervade almost every thread.

I'm with @Ghostythe rest of my life is full of politics and its nice to come here for some respite from it, we have quite a number of members who appear to have issues with their mental health and if this is their place of solice then it only seems right that agro and disputes are kept to a minimum..

I've met and spent time with at least three of the moderators and to me at least they appear to be some of the most considered, courteous,  friendly people I've ever met.  To be honest I've no idea why they would put themselves in the firing line for such vitriol from some around here, I for one certainly would never consider putting myself in the firing line.

As you were...

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I'm a gutted Bollox has gone it was following his threads on retro rides that brought me here in the first place. I can't think of many people other than him who have both the skills to fix the cars and the ability to write an entertaining build thread about it 

However, he probably shouldn't have posted what it he did as he likely did it to get a reaction and it worked, who ever got offended and complained to the mods is just as bad as it's different sides of the same coin as far as the argument about free speech on this forum concerned.

I still think it's fundamentally a car forum with a helpful community bolted on to it. That's the bits I'm interested in I don't come here to debate the why I hate Brexit as I see the supermarket shelves filling up with straight bananas.

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This isn't a designated, controlled, appropriately Moderated safe space for anyone with issues that require appropriate help or intervention. That level of 'safe space' is best left to actual professionals.

It can be, however, a welcoming, interesting and warm place to visit and take part in discussions in, if the overal approach changes. It does require self -control and a modicum of resilience from all participants, especially those who may be a little more 'fragile' then the norm. That doesn't happen at the moment, to the detriment of AS and it's members. 

Appropriate guidance,consensus and if required, Moderation , IS the way forward. What we have currently is not.

 

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12 minutes ago, cort16 said:

I'm a gutted Bollox has gone it was following his threads on retro rides that brought me here in the first place. I can't think of many people other than him who have both the skills to fix the cars and the ability to write an entertaining build thread about it 

However, he probably shouldn't have posted what it he did as he likely did it to get a reaction and it worked, who ever got offended and complained to the mods is just as bad as it's different sides of the same coin as far as the argument about free speech on this forum concerned.

 

I'd agree with most of this, except for the 'just as bad bit' - it was a Post for Effect, he knew it and thought he'd get away with it, as usual. Can't blame him for that, it's been enabled by others for a long time. The complainer isn't just as bad - it's a level playing field or it isn't - and it falls most definitely into the latter here, and has done for a long time. More like a ' good enough for the goose' situation then anything.

Denial,glossing over and re-writing what led us here serves no-one in the long term, save for those who want, for their own purposes, a place to be 'safe'.  An old car forum can be, but it's a by-product of tone, honesty, openess, discussion, personal responsibility and consensus. Things I'm afraid to say that are lacking.

Where's the Moderator thread gone?

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52 minutes ago, red5 said:

I'd agree with most of this, except for the 'just as bad bit' - it was a Post for Effect, he knew it and thought he'd get away with it, as usual. Can't blame him for that, it's been enabled by others for a long time. The complainer isn't just as bad - it's a level playing field or it isn't - and it falls most definitely into the latter here, and has done for a long time. More like a ' good enough for the goose' situation then anything.

Denial,glossing over and re-writing what led us here serves no-one in the long term, save for those who want, for their own purposes, a place to be 'safe'.  An old car forum can be, but it's a by-product of tone, honesty, openess, discussion, personal responsibility and consensus. Things I'm afraid to say that are lacking.

Where's the Moderator thread gone?

The 'How are moderators appointed?' thread seems to have been deleted by the moderators. By removing the thread the moderators are sending a clear signal to members that they do not want us to know how the moderators were appointed and that they want the process to remain cloaked by smoke and mirrors and to be unaccountable. I have long suspected that they effectively appoint themselves now, possibly having initially been appointed to remove the spam that bedeviled the forum in the 'Dave' era. Moderation was supposed to remove spam only - there is a post to that effect from the forum owners way back, if it hasn't itself been removed by the moderators of course. I imagine it is only  matter of time before criticism in this thread is itself removed and we are all compelled to go back to 'smiling-happy'.

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