Project Dollywobbler's Invacar - Ongoing

[plasticvandan]

From.memory the model 67 (same shape but villiers) had an electric version,but I don't think the model 70 did,as it was meant to be one model to suit all customers,Tippen were contracted to provide electric carriages after the model 70 was launched.

[DodgeRover]

Should be plenty of crashed self driving* cars to get the electric bits out of.....

[Fumbler]

Rob Tesla.

 

AA book of car has a section to Invacars but their versions were a two stroke or electric.

[Broadsword]

Seems like a pretty worthwhile breakdown now that it is suddenly running properly again. Well done on the team effort there. For the first time I caught your live broadcast and was kind of excited when you read my question. Wasn't very helpful mind, naturally all I could think of was to suggest you buy a Jaaaaag.

[Fumbler]

Or a Staaaaaaaaaaaa...g.

[andy18s]

Thought about electrically driven hubs?

This twin motor kit is up on Aliexpress for £700ish

Maybe something to start with?

[dollywobbler]

Interesting. How does the differential equivalent work or is just GR8 4 Donuts?

[andy18s]

I'm sure it'll all be taken care of by the controllers

That or you'll be contesting the UK Drifting championship in 2019....

 

Or this,which looks a motor running directly into it's own diff

[dollywobbler]

Yes, a few people have suggested fork lift motors, but do they provide enough OMG revs? Given how light the Invacar is to start with, I have been feeling that perhaps using a standard car gearbox is not the way to go. So much wasted weight when one gear will do.

[LightBulbFun]

as mentioned in the fox thread 

 

im very much against the idea of electrifying poor TWC

 

its not that I have anything against electric cars id be just as object if someone wanted to fit something like a motorbike engine into her

 

because I have an slightly* irrational love for model 70s and given how few survive/are the on the road it would be a shame to alter one so radically

 

and you would lose that lovely Puch engine noise

 

now I realise im not being very helpful, so it got me thinking, in my extensive research of Model 70s one thing iv learnt is they are very much a production "kit car" with pretty much everything being off the shelf

 

so im wondering what else used the same gearbox as Model 70s? for all we know there could a whole bunch of new ones somewhere that we cant find just because they are not labelled as "Invacar gearbox" or such

 

also what would be involved in rebuilding an existing unit? maybe thats an option? I know people have rebuilt conventional gearboxes.

 

at any rate, im glad you where able to get home safely after she ate a drive belt, and im glad she is running a lot better now on different pulleys 

 

do you think she might crack 60Mph on flat ground now? 

[matara]

Makes you think about the poor people that required these cars originally, and how the hell they would of coped with a breakdown of this sort. Was there an invalid carriage AA of some sorts?

[dollywobbler]

Pretty sure the transmission is the only bespoke bit. So, maybe I need to replace the transmission with a generator and have electric drive that way. Would probably be more efficient...

She did hit 60 pretty easily on the way back, but level bits of road are hard to find here.

[egg]

I think TWC needs a 'carrying passengers is forbidden' sticker in Welsh. Which probably really wouldn't look like this....(I should be working)

 

 

[dollywobbler]

Ha! Maybe. 

 

Someone on YouTube has found this. Not sure it entirely applies to the Invacar, but the first time I've seen anything giving any clue to how the transmission can actually be serviced.

http://www.vintagesnow.com/Clutch_files/SalsburyShopManual.pdf 

[SiC]

For me, one of the interesting things about cars is the experience. An experience that is unique to every car and can be lost if too much of the core things about the car are changed. It isn't just what they look like, feel like, sound like, smell like but of course also how they drive. Not only does the body, interior and controls contribute to this, but of course the engine too. Changing the engine out to anything else - be it electric or even a motorbike engine will change that.

 

For example. On my 1100, the hydrolastic suspension for me is a core thing that can't be changed to anything else. Even if I could get springs + shocks or even just removing the interconnect pipes, it would lose a core thing that makes the 1100, a 1100.

 

This little car unique point is that its a taste of 70s Britain for those that were disabled. By driving this, you're likely finding what life was like for those who used to use these things back in the day. Slipping belts? I bet that happened. Noisy, rattly, barely guarded engines & exhausts? Health and safety was different then. Uncomfortable seats? Ok these will be worn now, but I bet not much better back in the day. Disdain from other motorists? Wouldn't be surprised if it used to be even worse.

 

Its your car to do what you want of course. But I guess my question would be is, what do you want from this little car? A small insight into life in 1970s Britain? Or just another funny little car that is quite quick with a drivetrain of the future?

 

Converting to electric, I feel, will change it from one of those things to the other and loose the uniqueness of a 70s Invacar. Given the work and modifications needed to convert, its likely it will be changed forever. Or at least a shed load of work to change it back to IC. If it ever is sold on and when it inevitably wears out, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up as a spares car - rather than a restoration.

[Zelandeth]

I have to think that any gearbox specialist worth their salt should be able to sort the actual gearbox from the Invacar.

 

It's by far most likely that it's having issues because a bearing has worn, and given they were made in pretty low numbers I'd tend to expect everything inside the custom casting to be off-the-shelf stuff. So long as the gears themselves are serviceable it should be a simple strip down, clean, fresh set of bearings where appropriate, fresh set of seals and the job's done.

 

Given how few moving parts it has compared to a normal one (being a single ratio forward/reverse with no syncro or anything) I'd be surprised if the cost would even be that terrifying as it should take a fraction of the time of a "normal" box, and it's the labour costs that are usually the killer.

 

An electric conversion could definitely be done in a sympathetic and entirely reversible way. Especially if there's another rolling chassis floating around which could be used to help with making of brackets etc or to be used as a jig for testing.

 

The car was designed to be an easy as possible to drive back of all trades within the confines of the available resources at the time. I think an electric drivetrain could really go a long way to realising that goal and end up with a really useful vehicle at the end of it.

[LightBulbFun]

http://www.vintagesnow.com/Clutch_files/SalsburyShopManual.pdf

 

 

DWs Gearbox link somehow grew some extra lettering on the end and broke it self (if that dosent sum up autoshite i dunno what does  ) so here is a hopefully fixed version (worked on my end )

 

edit: same guy who linked DW to the PDF on his youtube video also linked to this forum post in the same comment, well worth checking out IMHO

 

http://www.6x6world.com/forums/transmissions/6172-salsbury-clutch-rebuild.html

 

how many countries are we up to in the model 70 now? proper parts bin car 

[PhilA]

Devil's advocate says that these were designed to be modified and tailored to the individual needs of the driver.

 

Phil

[dollywobbler]

I find the Salsbury interesting. I thought it was a Salisbury transmission. Perhaps it was, but the design was sold off to someone who used a similar-sounding name?

[DodgeRover]

Zelandeth has it exactly, strip one unit down and find the problem, bearings will be stock items and source able.

[richardthestag]

could a single motor drive the front wheel?

 

I imagine that steady torque of electric power could be 'kin scary in TWC, maybe drive pulling from the front wheel might be the answer.

 

Must admit that I find myself interested in leccy power if you go down this route. 

[dollywobbler]

Zelandeth has it exactly, strip one unit down and find the problem, bearings will be stock items and source able.

 

Yeah, no chance of that happening before the big drive to the NEC. I've got a 2CV in bits in the garage at the moment.

 

could a single motor drive the front wheel?

 

I imagine that steady torque of electric power could be 'kin scary in TWC, maybe drive pulling from the front wheel might be the answer.

 

Must admit that I find myself interested in leccy power if you go down this route. 

 

Having recently driven a Bond Minicar, I can confirm that one-wheel drive is a bloody daft idea. There's nowt wrong with rear-wheel drive in this application, though whichever wheels are driven, you'd want to be a bit easy on the go-go handle.

[stonedagain]

3x3 would be cool!

[LightBulbFun]

question for the more seasoned invacar lickers

 

I was looking at that gearbox assembly thats on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113273401767

 

and I noticed the big AC Logo on that cover plate of sorts, im curious do invacar made model 70s have "INVACAR" there or do they still have AC?

[st185cs]

question for the more seasoned invacar lickers

 

I was looking at that gearbox assembly thats on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113273401767

 

and I noticed the big AC Logo on that cover plate of sorts, im curious do invacar made model 70s have "INVACAR" there or do they still have AC?

No, they are all AC. I also believe AC designed the Model 70.

[plasticvandan]

Yes the contract to develop the model 70 was given to AC,but Invacar were given the contract to build it as well as AC. Early prototypes used the Fiat 500 and 600 engine,and there was one 2 seater prototype before the ministry decided to continue with the single seater design.

[plasticvandan]

I think that a full strip down and proper rebuild is needed,and stop all this electric nonsense.Its survived 40 odd years against all odds after all.

[LightBulbFun]

Yes the contract to develop the model 70 was given to AC,but Invacar were given the contract to build it as well as AC. Early prototypes used the Fiat 500 and 600 engine,and there was one 2 seater prototype before the ministry decided to continue with the single seater design.

 

 

oh thats really interesting I knew the prototype had a Fiat engine but I did not know about the Dual seater

 

are there any pictures? have any of the prototypes survived?

 

BTW as a side note has anyone here actually come across a 600cc invacar? its one I have read about but I have never actually "Seen"...

[dollywobbler]

Right. Here's what happened on the day. Note to self. Stop tackling monumental hills in a car with a clearly knackered transmission...

 

I'll learn one day...

[busmansholiday]

If you want something blue, plastic, electric and operated by hand controls, don't convert the Invacar, buy one of these.......