Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar, Volvo & A Sinclair C5 - Updated 21/09.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

*Health and Safety Womble Alert Begins*

 

Is the halon fire extinguisher legal for you to own?

 

*Health and Safety Womble Alert Over*

 

Looks like you're getting quite close to the Invacar being on the road now.  Dreadfully exciting.

[LightBulbFun]

The MOT is neigh! 

 

seriously excited to see this hit the road

 

BTW im curious can the seat still slide side to side or was that part of the old stuff you removed to fit the Xantia seat?

[Zelandeth]

*Health and Safety Womble Alert Begins*

 

Is the halon fire extinguisher legal for you to own?

 

*Health and Safety Womble Alert Over*

 

Looks like you're getting quite close to the Invacar being on the road now. Dreadfully exciting.

Probably not...but if the Environmental Police are going to chase me for the sake of a single tiny fire extinguisher I'm already doomed.

 

I figure in a plastic car which has a reputation for a fondness for spontaneously combusting, I'd rather have the most effective extinguisher I can on hand in case it's needed...and Halon wins that competition hands down. Hopefully I'll never need it.

 

Once the car has proven itself over a few months I will probably replace it with a modern equivalent behind the dash or something and just keep a replica of the original visible.

 

I think I need to just take the financial hit and order the last batch of stuff. Tyres, battery, wheel cylinders and a master cylinder...at least then I've no excuses for holding it up. Wheel cylinders are only £10-15 each so I reckon just order them all and swap if needed.

 

Meeting up with an engineering company in Northampton on the 4th regarding the fuel tank, so will see what comes from that.

[Zelandeth]

The MOT is neigh!

 

seriously excited to see this hit the road

 

BTW im curious can the seat still slide side to side or was that part of the old stuff you removed to fit the Xantia seat?

I honestly can't remember... it's clamped directly to the old seat's support frame...so might still be able to move... I'd need to check!

[Zelandeth]

Task number one, which I'd been forgetting to do for a couple of weeks.  Sticking some tape over the holes left by the high level tail lights on the van which were removed historically for some reason.  One of the few places where I'd seen evidence of water getting in.

 

 

I intend to reinstate the lights at some point (I do have them in a box) so have just put some tape over the holes for now.

 

On the subject of weather proofing, I figured this was as good a time as any to replace the mangled nearside roof gutter on the Invacar.  These are actually quite important in terms of keeping the weather out of the car as they stop water running into the door apeture from the roof.  Or rather they do when there isn't a 1/4" gap between the roof and the gutter.

 

Of course the screws haven't had heads on them for decades so the drill had to come out.

 

 

Cleaned up the old sealant etc around the door apeture ready for the installation of the new gutter...

 

 

It was at this point that I had to abandon this particular task as I couldn't find the dispenser to lay a new bead of tiger seal.  Of course can't just go grab a new one as absolutely everything is closed because it's new year's day.  Annoying.

 

Irked at this I instead reverted to type and resumed where I left off cleaning stuff.  Windscreen had never been properly cleaned up until this point but scrubbed up really well actually.  Just need to get something a bit more aggressive involved to get rid of the remains of the adhesive from a tax disc holder.

 

 

Pleasantly surprised how good condition the glass is in there given how bashed up the bodywork is.

 

Then continued to scrub the gunk off the inside of the doors.  This is quite a slow job as the grime is really quite deeply ingrained as they've been sitting outside for years.  Starting to get there.

 

 

 

With a bit of luck I'll get the gutter refitted tomorrow and then using my usual system, pick something else utterly random to move attention on to.

[dollywobbler]

Probably not...but if the Environmental Police are going to chase me for the sake of a single tiny fire extinguisher I'm already doomed.

 

No probably about it, which is why I definitely don't have TWC's original one...

[Fumbler]

Knowing what dry powder does would that be a good choice? It might be the only choice given there's petrol involved with this vehicle. I forget.

[LightBulbFun]

Task number one, which I'd been forgetting to do for a couple of weeks.  Sticking some tape over the holes left by the high level tail lights on the van which were removed historically for some reason.  One of the few places where I'd seen evidence of water getting in.

 

IMG_20190101_154009.jpg

 

I intend to reinstate the lights at some point (I do have them in a box) so have just put some tape over the holes for now.

 

On the subject of weather proofing, I figured this was as good a time as any to replace the mangled nearside roof gutter on the Invacar.  These are actually quite important in terms of keeping the weather out of the car as they stop water running into the door apeture from the roof.  Or rather they do when there isn't a 1/4" gap between the roof and the gutter.

 

Of course the screws haven't had heads on them for decades so the drill had to come out.

 

IMG_20190101_152228.jpg

 

Cleaned up the old sealant etc around the door apeture ready for the installation of the new gutter...

 

IMG_20190101_152223.jpg

 

It was at this point that I had to abandon this particular task as I couldn't find the dispenser to lay a new bead of tiger seal.  Of course can't just go grab a new one as absolutely everything is closed because it's new year's day.  Annoying.

 

Irked at this I instead reverted to type and resumed where I left off cleaning stuff.  Windscreen had never been properly cleaned up until this point but scrubbed up really well actually.  Just need to get something a bit more aggressive involved to get rid of the remains of the adhesive from a tax disc holder.

 

IMG_20190101_161035.jpg

 

Pleasantly surprised how good condition the glass is in there given how bashed up the bodywork is.

 

Then continued to scrub the gunk off the inside of the doors.  This is quite a slow job as the grime is really quite deeply ingrained as they've been sitting outside for years.  Starting to get there.

 

IMG_20190101_161051.jpg

 

IMG_20190101_161046.jpg

 

With a bit of luck I'll get the gutter refitted tomorrow and then using my usual system, pick something else utterly random to move attention on to.

 

hey look some original? paintwork 

 

is the spare tyre on the camper original to the van?

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Knowing what dry powder does would that be a good choice? It might be the only choice given there's petrol involved with this vehicle. I forget.

 

 

Powder is quite nasty in enclosed spaces.  I was doing some consultancy in a school recently and had to give them a ticking off for keeping a powder extinguisher inappropriately.  Although in this instance, powder probably is the best choice.  They all have their ups and downs but CO2 wouldn't be terribly effective on oil or fuel...

 

Halon really is the most effective extinguisher out there - which is why it's still permitted in certain military applications.  Those big fire suppression systems they have on aircraft carriers (specifically in the hangers) are halon.  I mean, it could very well suffocate the personnel but when you've got huge amounts of ordnance and jet fuel around, best not to take chances.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/firemax-dry-powder-fire-extinguisher-1kg/5534h

 

This is a decent replacement.

 

The problem with a CO2 extinguisher is that you run the risk of it reigniting if fuel or oil is involved.  Plus, the powder ones are so cheap and easily available that it just makes sense.  CO2 is really best if you're dealing with electrical fires - which a car fire would turn into (any fire that might, for instance, encompass the battery would be classified as electrical even if it's not the ignition source) but given that the major risk is fuel and oil, powder makes more sense.  Plus, if you use a CO2 incorrectly (which is very, very easily done) it'll take the skin of your hand off.

 

EDIT: It's been a while since I taught health-and-safety Wombling (briefly taught CSCS in a previous job) and electrical fires have now been de-classified.  'Electrical' is no longer a category of fire because electricity in and of itself does not burn.  Just had a quick Google of it all and wanted to update.  I know it's terminally boring but I don't want to put misinformation out there...

[Fumbler]

AFFF Suppresent that the US uses is great. Snowy and is also just as deadly but oh well. Extinguishing snoz.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

AFFF Suppresent that the US uses is great. Snowy and is also just as deadly but oh well. Extinguishing snoz.

 

 

Foam would be ok.  Powder ones are a bit smaller and lighter, though.  So better for being in a car.

 

To be honest, at the precise moment a fire breaks out in a car you're not going to be splitting hairs over which extinguisher you've bought and that's assuming you even get a chance to use it.  As long as it isn't a water one...

[Minimad5]

Nice to know there's another Lada liker around!

'Liker' ... I have two in my unit, which both need welding, sadly working 12hr shifts takes up my time (as does sorting my house out), and finding a reputable / good chap to weld them up, is proving difficult !

[Zelandeth]

I've already got several powder extinguishers around the house, and will definitely be adding one to the Invacar in due course (nice and easy to mount one invisibly but instantly accessible under the dash), and once it's proven that it can reliably travel for a while without spontaneously combusting I'll ditch the halon one given this is the third forum folks have pounced on that. I had no idea they were such a hot topic.

 

Hopefully disposing of it correctly will be less of a gigantic pain than the tiny asbestos heat shield from an old valve amp was a couple of years back.

 

On that occasion I looked up which of our waste centres took it, had the offending article damp, quadruple wrapped in double sealed bags and clearly labelled. I even rang up the council to check.

 

You'd have thought I'd walked in with a leaky vat of glowing radioactive waste from the reaction I got...and when I eventually did get them to take it...last thing I saw in my rear view mirror as I left was my bag being chucked into the general household waste bin. One of those times where you really do wonder why you bothered trying to do things right in the first place.

[dollywobbler]

I'm not sure there's an easy way (ie free) to dispose of them. 

[Fumbler]

I've already got several powder extinguishers around the house, and will definitely be adding one to the Invacar in due course (nice and easy to mount one invisibly but instantly accessible under the dash), and once it's proven that it can reliably travel for a while without spontaneously combusting I'll ditch the halon one given this is the third forum folks have pounced on that. I had no idea they were such a hot topic.

 

Hopefully disposing of it correctly will be less of a gigantic pain than the tiny asbestos heat shield from an old valve amp was a couple of years back.

 

On that occasion I looked up which of our waste centres took it, had the offending article damp, quadruple wrapped in double sealed bags and clearly labelled. I even rang up the council to check.

 

You'd have thought I'd walked in with a leaky vat of glowing radioactive waste from the reaction I got...and when I eventually did get them to take it...last thing I saw in my rear view mirror as I left was my bag being chucked into the general household waste bin. One of those times where you really do wonder why you bothered trying to do things right in the first place.

In fact they're making it harder around here. Although they have general disposal bins for the stuff people taking even the smallest pieces will have to pay something like £10.00. Have no idea why but funding must have been cut elsewhere.

 

'Liker' ... I have two in my unit, which both need welding, sadly working 12hr shifts takes up my time (as does sorting my house out), and finding a reputable / good chap to weld them up, is proving difficult !

Welding I might need to take up proper if I end up buying one!

[PhilA]

*Health and Safety Womble Alert Begins*

 

Is the halon fire extinguisher legal for you to own?

 

*Health and Safety Womble Alert Over*

 

Looks like you're getting quite close to the Invacar being on the road now.  Dreadfully exciting.

No worse than having a carbon tetrachloride (CTC) extinguisher, just slightly less toxic.

 

 

Phil

[Fumbler]

Or a Freeon fire alarm...

[LightBulbFun]

Id prolly keep the Halon extinguisher in place since its a part of the vehicle and its history and considering how you cant get them anymore, it would be a shame to get rid of it

 

are they actually illegal to OWN? I always thought they where illegal to make new, and that you MIGHT get into some trouble if you just freely vented it to the atmosphere but I didn't think they where illegal to just have sitting around?

 

(I do find it funny with people mentioning the Halon when the entire Vehicle was outlawed at one point LOL)

[Fumbler]

There was a time when the Invacar itself was illegal to own so I say it cancells it out. After all, it's a small container full of a not-so-nice substance which is quick and effective for use on a car which likes to think it's a bonfire sometimes. It also helps that it's a flammable plastic box on wheels as well so the stronger the better I'd say.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

I've already got several powder extinguishers around the house, and will definitely be adding one to the Invacar in due course (nice and easy to mount one invisibly but instantly accessible under the dash), and once it's proven that it can reliably travel for a while without spontaneously combusting I'll ditch the halon one given this is the third forum folks have pounced on that. I had no idea they were such a hot topic.

 

Hopefully disposing of it correctly will be less of a gigantic pain than the tiny asbestos heat shield from an old valve amp was a couple of years back.

 

On that occasion I looked up which of our waste centres took it, had the offending article damp, quadruple wrapped in double sealed bags and clearly labelled. I even rang up the council to check.

 

You'd have thought I'd walked in with a leaky vat of glowing radioactive waste from the reaction I got...and when I eventually did get them to take it...last thing I saw in my rear view mirror as I left was my bag being chucked into the general household waste bin. One of those times where you really do wonder why you bothered trying to do things right in the first place.

 

 

Sorry if I came across as being an arse!

 

I'd not recommend keeping it in the garage in a corner away from prying eyes at all.

[Zelandeth]

Sorry if I came across as being an arse!

 

I'd not recommend keeping it in the garage in a corner away from prying eyes at all.

Don't worry about it! Have been bombarded with PMs on a couple of other forums as well, so fair enough.

 

Couple of the powder ones in the house are coming up for being due for replacement anyhow, so will grab a couple of extras at the same time.

 

Should be possible to mount it in an essentially invisible but also instantly accessible location up behind the dash which gets rid of a bit of clutter in the cabin. The bracket I've got obviously isn't original anyway, especially obviously thanks to being screwed through the vehicle identify plate which is annoying. Not much I can do about that sadly.

[Zelandeth]

Just a quick update today as I spent a good chunk of the afternoon giving our fridge/freezer a total internal clean as I've just resurrected it.  It's baffling to think that the vast majority of households these days would have scrapped this for the sake of a £2 relay (the offending item is sitting on the water dispenser below).

 

 

The car stuff is what you're here for though...so back to that.

 

The Invacar windscreen washer bottle was given a thorough clean in the "parts washer" overnight and was then reunited with the car.  Couldn't shift some of the external rust staining but it's better than it was and is spotless internally.

 

 

We all remember this menace don't we?

 

 

It was disintegrating and shedding blue powder all over everything when you so much as went near it.

 

That had to go...few quid from Decathlon sorted that.

 

 

Obviously the handlebar assembly itself is going to see paint at some point (hammered black finish likely so it will match the dash reasonably well), but it's funny how this little detail has made the cabin feel much more like an actual car than a random lost cause project.

 

I forgot to get the mastic gun though didn't I...which was what I actually went out for in the first place wasn't it...so the roof gutter still isn't fitted.

[Zelandeth]

Thanks to input from the Microcar World group on Facebook (which I've extremely begrudgingly made use of simply because not doing so was proving to be a major pain in the tail in resource terms) I've finally been in touch with a fabrication shop who are actually interested in making me a fuel tank.

 

Fusion Fabrication over in Oxfordshire have agreed to make me one up that will be as close as possibly a direct replica of the original tank but in aluminium (because lightness counts of course!). £230 was the price quoted which is precisely the sort of ball park I'd been expecting really - not the £850 one other lot quoted... Will let you know how it turns out obviously.

 

Next step, order fuel gauge sender...Need to dig back through this thread I think as I'm sure someone mentioned which one I needed somewhere. The gauge reads full scale full with no sender attached...

[PhilA]

Sounds like mine, the resistance across the sender decreases as the fuel level drops, allowing more current to pass through the coil that pulls the needle towards empty.

 

Surprising though, I would have thought a Smiths bi-metallic heated gauge would have been the thing there. Does the needle flick across almost instantly when power is applied?

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

I believe from memory that one of these is what I need.

 

Should be easy enough to test to make sure the calibration is correct.

 

It does indeed immediately jump to full as soon as power is supplied with no sender attached.

[PhilA]

Yup, same principle as my fuel gauge. Sender disconnected = maximum fuel is normal.

 

Phil

[LightBulbFun]

is this what your looking for? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132909464076

[Zelandeth]

Possibly... I'll need to check. There are several different types of fuel gauges used during the production run, the fact that this sender has three terminals makes me think it's quite possibly for one of the other types which also have a low fuel light, unlike mine.

 

The seller of that seems pretty knowledgeable so I'll drop them a message and see what they say. Planning to pop into the garage this afternoon with the box of random resistors and find out what the resistance range actually needs to be as that will help clear up any uncertainty.

[LightBulbFun]

Good point I never noticed the different fuel gages before

 

IIRC TWC has this type of fuel gauge I think https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132905420227 and im guessing thats what the above fuel sender goes with, I wonder which type of gauge came first or was a later replacement or if it was really just whatever was in stock that week at whatever the British equivalent of the Shenzhen market was... (that moment you realise your wondering about the different fuel gauges on an invacar, this is what happens when I properly get interested into something! ) 

 

(on the note of the gauge if the 2 different gauges work on the same principles? and the 3rd terminal is just for the the low fuel light, would it be possible to just ignore said terminal?)

[Zelandeth]

I'm assuming - purely based on the visual appearance - that the one fitted to TWC and that the eBay seller there has is a later Veglia one, the one I have here being Smith's made and common to a plethora of British motors across the board in the 60s and 70s.

 

The headache is that there are two main types - moving iron and moving coil. The difference between them being that one uses a sender where low resistance = full indication, and the other (helpfully!) does exactly the opposite. As far as I'm aware there's no visible way to tell them apart.

 

There is a temptation just to grab the gauge and sender from there - though I've already spent quite a lot on cars this month so need to think about it. Especially as I prefer the look of the older style gauge...