Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 19/04 - HVAC Preemptive Investigation...

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

That damn cylinder 1 spark. I thought I cracked that. 

Couple things I did notice:

 - the acorn screw on the top is slightly different than the others and screws down to the bottom. Almost feels a modern plastic. I'm wondering if it's bottoming out without making enough pressure onto the contact. There should be spare HT connectors with acorn cap things in the boxes of spares. 

 - I did notice that lifting the back of the cap about 1mm or 2mm made the number 1 go slightly brighter. Then I found the LT spade dodgy and number 1 went bright again after fixing that. So I presumed it was that rather than moving the cap. Possibly worth a try again to see if it changes things. Obviously go careful with moving the cap with the engine running as you don't want any rotor/cap interfacing. 

 - Worth trying the old black rotor arm to see if that has any behavioural differences. 

There is a spare brand new cap and leads in the box of spares. It's the plug in type which I kinda prefer as not as likely to leak electrons in the wrong place. Isn't as pretty as the original though. However the king lead is too short for the 110 and you'll need a coil to take plugs. My plan was to buy a length HT cable from eBay with HT connectors and crimp it together. 

These are handy to give a quick cursory check across all cylinders:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361553428050

 

Seems like you did for a while!  Then it decided to come back.

Only so many things it can be.  Even with the acorn doodad removed the spark from no 1 lead itself is really weak, so that may have been a problem, but wasn't the only problem!

I'll re-terminate the lead first as that involves the minimum of faffing about then see where it gets us.

[SiC]

I never got around to writing up the sluthing and fix up of the ignition system but this is one of the videos I made. Shows pretty clearly the weak spark that Zel is talking about. The after is after I'd cleaned up the plug and HT acorn connection.

I've only got 4 spark plug testers which is why some aren't lighting up. 

[Zelandeth]

Switched over to the new cap and leads (one of my old Lada spares is long enough for the king lead) and it made precisely zero difference.

Old rotor on is worse.

Then noticed I can absolutely reliably make the miss come and go by pushing the whole distributor assembly towards the rear of the car.

Okay, so that's my avenue of investigation for the afternoon when I've next got five minutes.  Worn distributor shaft running off centre?  There is a spare distributor in one of the boxes which seems in good order so no massive headache if that's the case.

[Zelandeth]

Fixed it!  For now at least.

Root cause: There was no points gap.  Must have closed up when the securing screw was tightened up when they were last set.  Been there, done that myself more than once.  Gap has been set using a bit of card for now, I'll dig the feeler gauges out later to fine tune it.  

There is definitely some wear on this distributor though, and I think the lobe for number 1 is the most worn, so it was basically getting no spark.

Taking bets on it finding a new way to do the same thing in about 30 miles time...

While I had the distributor off the car I got the fine timing adjustment control knob freed off so that now works again.

[SiC]

Ah that makes sense and good catch! Especially if number one lobe is worn more than the others and the gap was adjusted on not number 1. What's the top rotor assembly condition like on the spare dizzy? Could be a straight swap. I imagine the dizzy parts are standard Lucas and shouldn't be hard to get otherwise. 

I didn't touch the points as it was generally running fine and I bought a new set that I was going to put in eventually. 

I've had points close up after a good run as the arm wears down and beds in with use. 

[PhilA]

Might just be off true and 1 is the lean away from the points. Worn bearing would accentuate the issue.

Partly why I changed to electronic ignition, there's about half the points gap in play in the distributor shaft which makes setting the dwell impossible.

Magnetic pickup is much more forgiving of that lash.

Either way, that's a really nice idle. 

[Zelandeth]

To be honest I'm surprised it was running at all - the heel of the points was just barely touching the spindle.  

Guess it proves the oldest bit of advice out there - always check the basics before assuming something complicated is amiss!

[PhilA]

Yup. Valves lash set, timing spot on and mixture dialed in- I reckon you'll surprise people with how quietly you approach.

[Zelandeth]

Test drive successfully completed.

I can confirm that she is now running *way* better.  Definitely feels more willing in addition to being smoother.  I've definitely got a lot better at driving the car smoothly as well...still not 100%, but vastly better than I was when I first collected it.

I really will need to do an onboard video at some point.  The noise in first gear in particular is something from a very different era.

[LightBulbFun]

9 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Test drive successfully completed.

I can confirm that she is now running *way* better.  Definitely feels more willing in addition to being smoother.  I've definitely got a lot better at driving the car smoothly as well...still not 100%, but vastly better than I was when I first collected it.

I really will need to do an onboard video at some point.  The noise in first gear in particular is something from a very different era.

Awesome to see that A: you have made it back safe and sound  and B: Rover fettling has resumed and is going well, awesome to see to the Barge out and about I do like that photo for the whole "one of these 3 cars is mine, can you guess which!"

it will be interesting to hear how she is to drive around MK, especially with regards to how other drivers behave around it, as @SiC said when he got it, its still got a fair amount of presence about it, even among todays large blobby SUV's so it will be interesting to see if the usual crop of idiots actually behave around it/think twice before trying to pull out in front of you/sit 3 inches from your bumper

[PhilA]

Oh, trust me. They'll still manage.

 

What'll surprise them is if you get a bit of a hustle on.

[Angrydicky]

My Austin Hampshire is pretty massive on the roads yet gets bullied relentlessly by idiots in moderns every time I take it out. The amount of stupid overtakes and just abysmal driving in general it attracts has to be seen to be believed.

It nearly got written off by some twat in an insignia overtaking me on my outside as I’m about to turn right on a NSL road. That was the very first time I took it out and it was only because I was on the ball and saw it barrelling up behind me at 60+ and thought “he’s not stopping” that I didn’t get killed. Because getting T-boned at that sort of speed in a car with no crumple zones, airbags or seatbelts I would have been.

The rear indicators are small and feeble (although my road positioning meant anyone with half a brain would have realised what I was doing) so I’ve bought an LED indicator conversion kit which should hopefully make them a bit more obvious.

[EyesWeldedShut]

1 hour ago, Angrydicky said:

My Austin Hampshire is pretty massive on the roads yet gets bullied relentlessly by idiots in moderns every time I take it out. The amount of stupid overtakes and just abysmal driving in general it attracts has to be seen to be believed.

It nearly got written off by some twat in an insignia overtaking me on my outside as I’m about to turn right on a NSL road. That was the very first time I took it out and it was only because I was on the ball and saw it barrelling up behind me at 60+ and thought “he’s not stopping” that I didn’t get killed. Because getting T-boned at that sort of speed in a car with no crumple zones, airbags or seatbelts I would have been.

The rear indicators are small and feeble (although my road positioning meant anyone with half a brain would have realised what I was doing) so I’ve bought an LED indicator conversion kit which should hopefully make them a bit more obvious.

My wife's first car was a Moggy and she suffered similar treatment. Then she bought a 1300 Capri (whoooooo!) and, voila! No more bullying/hassling/tail gating.
She still laughs about it as she reckons the Moggy was faster than the Capri.

[SiC]

"You might be right, but you're still dead"

A vehicle, especially any modern vehicle, may yield and let you through because of this cars presence. However you presume they won't as an impact, any impact will lead you off in a far worse state than they will be. An accident in something this age is going to hurt, hurt real bad. 

It's all well and good having a claim off an insurance company when you're in the right but if your face/back/body is completely mullered from that accident while the other party walked away scot-free, you're going to have to live with that split second incident for the rest of your life. No money or being in the right will fix that. 

As you get older you realise how much any collision can hurt and take a long time, if ever to heal. Even more so if you've been in crash or seen others that have been.

I've been in an accident where a van went into the back of me when I was in a modern (Saab 9-3) - it took a long time for my neck to get remotely normal. A colleague I worked with has been in a wheelchair for the last 35 years and in constant pain all because someone side swiped him back in the 80s on the road. Such things really do make you realise that you need to be careful. 

So if someone is tailgating you, especially when you're in an old car, you pull over where you can and let them pass. If you're coming up to parked cars on the otherside of the road with a car approaching, you slow down in the expectation of stopping or even let them through. As you're approaching a junction on your left/right and you see a car approaching it, you either put your foot over the brake or you start slowing down and judging if you can pull wide safely if needs be. 

What I found with this car though is you would approach a line of cars on your side and the approaching motorist would pull in then flash you to go passed. Or you need to pull out of a junction and the approaching motorist would stop and let you out. Stuff that used to happen all to often a decade or so ago but rarely happens now. 

[Zelandeth]

Had a spare half hour this afternoon and managed to dodge the showers to investigate the (main) oil leak on the Rover.  Sure there are a bunch, but there's only one I'm currently bothered about as it's making quite a mess.

Have to admit I was really, really surprised by how clean a scene greeted me when the rocker cover was removed.

Not entirely sure if this is the cause of THE leak, but it absolutely won't have been helping.

I've already got a full upper gasket set on the way, but I've blobbed a bit of instant gasket in there for now to see if it will help.  Leaving it to set for a couple of hours before I test it.

It's absolutely not a fix, and a new gasket will be going in when it arrives.  Stripping things down to this state takes less than ten minutes so it's no massive hassle.  It looks like the exhaust valve cover is weeping a bit too, so I'll change that at the same time.

The kit does include everything needed to do the head gasket, which at some point I will have to do - because of this O-ring which is clearly not in the best of health.

Leaving it alone until it becomes an issue or I have other reasons to disturb things.  I'm not going looking for work at this point.

Not sure why you couldn't do that by removing the water pump...or may be that you need to slide that in which makes it impossible to situate properly...or the expectation is that you would just have the head off semi-regularly anyway to be de-coked back in the day anyway.  Obviously less of an issue with modern fuels and oils.

Though I did find some...

Methinks some heat shrink will be getting deployed there.  Especially on that leftmost wire which is a direct battery positive...yeah, that looks completely safe doesn't it?

[SiC]

That white is just the cloth covering coming off the PVC wiring underneath, so don't panic too much. This age car wiring seems to always be that type - I had it on my Moggie. Older just have cloth covering. Presumably this was the transition point when car wiring became primarily PVC insulated and the trust wasn't completely there to have it without a cloth covering.

Definitely worth putting a bit of heat shrink or tape over that spade connector cover though. But unless you bend the terminal it back, then it's not going to hit the (painted/undersealed) body.  

There is a bit of wiring around the fuse box on an inline that probably could do with heatshrink or wire replacing as the pvc is degraded/perished. I put a bit of insulation tape to cover it over. But in hindsight I used my red reel of insulation that I meant to throw out as its one of those modern shit reels that doesn't really stick properly.

The reverse and number plate bulb light wiring on the boot hinge/join where I mentioned someone had scotch locked it, is the highest critical piece of wiring I'd look at to be honest. 

They should also have a mercury operated switch on the boot to turn the boot light on. I didn't investigate if there still is one but if there is then it doesn't work and could be related to that wiring. 

47 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

direct battery positive

Positive earth remember 😉

[SiC]

Oh just seen what you meant. That middle terminal is completely devoid of insulation? Iirc that's the charge warning light connection. 

Btw caution on the water pump assembly. It's well known apparently for the bolts to snap off in the head and be a right bugger to get out. 

[Zelandeth]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

That white is just the cloth covering coming off the PVC wiring underneath, so don't panic too much. This age car wiring seems to always be that type - I had it on my Moggie. Older just have cloth covering. Presumably this was the transition point when car wiring became primarily PVC insulated and the trust wasn't completely there to have it without a cloth covering.

Definitely worth putting a bit of heat shrink or tape over that spade connector cover though. But unless you bend the terminal it back, then it's not going to hit the (painted/undersealed) body.  

There is a bit of wiring around the fuse box on an inline that probably could do with heatshrink or wire replacing as the pvc is degraded/perished. I put a bit of insulation tape to cover it over. But in hindsight I used my red reel of insulation that I meant to throw out as its one of those modern shit reels that doesn't really stick properly.

The reverse and number plate bulb light wiring on the boot hinge/join where I mentioned someone had scotch locked it, is the highest critical piece of wiring I'd look at to be honest. 

They should also have a mercury operated switch on the boot to turn the boot light on. I didn't investigate if there still is one but if there is then it doesn't work and could be related to that wiring. 

Positive earth remember 😉

The cloth outer being tired I'm not too worried about, and generally it seems healthy enough - just something has obviously chewed on that bit and there's bare copper showing in a few spots.

That will not be the last time I mix up positive/nagative when writing it down...

I did just have to do one bit of wiring correction.  Albeit a 30 second one.

The brake/running light filament connections to the lower bulb had been flipped at some point so you got a bright running light and dim brake light.  Easy fix though.

Can't remember if @LightBulbFun was still after close ups of the rear plate.

If so, there you are!

No markings I can see at a glance on the front.

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Can't remember if @LightBulbFun was still after close ups of the rear plate.

If so, there you are!

No markings I can see at a glance on the front.

 

Oooh thank you for those close ups! I am actually after a detailed close up of the front number plate (including a measurement of the digit hight if you can? we are wondering if its 3 inches 1/8th, or 3 inches and a half digit hight?)  as I am pretty positive the front number plate to be of the same "make/model" that AC used for Pre Jan 1973 Model 70's and beforehand, note the same 8 and 5 as seen on KPF385K, sadly we have not yet been able to nail down exactly who made these plates and what their trade name was, but I am hoping in time that with enough data points gathered it can be figured out  (shame there is no maker stamping on the boarder or such, guess that would be too easy!)

 

 

 

but the rear number plate shots are very interesting in their own right! at first I thought ok standard bluemels plates, but I saw the "White Bronze Ltd Croydon" bit stamped on there also and I thought "oooh Is that the supplying dealer of the car? I mean 850AVB is a London Croydon registration mark" but I had never seen such an old plate with dealer markings! thats only something I have seen on later plates, so I then wondered maybe thats the company who made the backplate or such? so I thought "ok lets see what I can find on this company" I did a bit of research, and I came across this very interesting writeup about the place/company, 

https://london-road-croydon.org/history/0192-behind-kidderminster-terrace.html

which talks about White Bronze Ltd, which confirms that they where just a number plate manufacturer, but as being taken over by Charles Wright Ltd a another completely different number plate manufacturer at the time! 

so one has to ask where the hell does bluemels come into it all! I have obviously forwarded my findings to Staurt (who's other interests Invacars aside is also old number plates )  so it will be interesting to see what his thoughts are on it 

especially as this is not the only set of "crossed plates" I have seen, Stuart has another plate that he says is pure Charles Wright style, but is stamped bluemels! but thats a munch later K suffix plate, so dont know if the same shenanigans are afoot or different ones!

 

as an aside, thank you for remember about my interest in the number plates! so many times I have asked for a just a quick photograph or detailed shot of something to help with my research and it just gets brushed aside or forgotten about! its nice to be remembered for once  

[Zelandeth]

I'll try to remember to grab some measurements at some point.

Did forget one small detail I added today.  

Always just feels odd having an older car without a disc in the window.

 

[SiC]

There is a '94 tax disc in the glovebox. Presumably that was when it was last on the road when needing taxing. 

[Zelandeth]

16 minutes ago, SiC said:

There is a '94 tax disc in the glovebox. Presumably that was when it was last on the road when needing taxing. 

Yep, this is using the holder one of those discs were in.  Those have been safely stashed in the paperwork folder now so they can't walk off.

As far as the boot lid wiring goes, the reversing light does work, as does one of the number plate lights.  It will be getting a more permanent fix in due course though.  Will probably tackle that when I properly investigate why the boot lid doesn't latch properly.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

I'll try to remember to grab some measurements at some point.

Did forget one small detail I added today.  

Always just feels odd having an older car without a disc in the window.

 

you included the validation character thats not supposed to be there on a tax disc that old, this is long before the DVLC Centralised vehicle record computer was set up  (if you have an older V5 for the car in the history file, it will actually state when it was computerised, and thus when its tax discs would of started displaying valid characters) 

yes I know I am probably the only person who will notice it LOL, but still, as you say small details and all that  

also speaking of the fine details of the fine details, the stamp at the bottom would of been a circular stamp of the county council issuing the tax disc, for 1963-64 issue, likely would of said "London County Council" on it or such (this is pre GLC!)

 

yes I have spent far too many hours studying this sorts of thing! LOL

[Zelandeth]

I've seen discs as far back as the early 70s with a printed code (I'm assuming serial number) which I'd figured were ones that had been sent out by post direct from DVLC.  No idea when they actually first appeared though.

I've usually taken that approach as making the stamps up to look even vaguely correct is a lot more work...

TPA's one probably has the validation character on it too, though correcting that is a ways down the priority list right now.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

I've seen discs as far back as the early 70s with a printed code (I'm assuming serial number) which I'd figured were ones that had been sent out by post direct from DVLC.  No idea when they actually first appeared though.

I've usually taken that approach as making the stamps up to look even vaguely correct is a lot more work...

TPA's one probably has the validation character on it too, though correcting that is a ways down the priority list right now.

the Serial number is the number going round the top  like so

I dont actually know exactly what the long string of numbers in place of the issuers stamp is exactly but with that I dont think i have seen the long string of numbers on anything pre-computerised, so I think its a computer related number (a transaction ID or such?) however id have to conduct further research on that to verify it all

you did actually sort out the one on TPA after I made mention of it, so dont discredit yourself on that! I mean I was pleasantly surprised you knew that tax discs did otherwise in general have a validation character on them, its something I see most people miss out on when they make reproduction discs for their car, hence why I feel the need to mention it now since you do clearly care for the fine details

https://autoshite.com/topic/41948-my-replica-tax-discs-now-free-all-the-time-webshite-optimisation/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-2273091

anyways before someone chucks a brick through my window enough Tax disc rivet counting! and onwards to number plate rivet counting instead

 

I heard back from Stuart about it, and he knew much the same as I did, of that White Bronze Ltd being taken over by Chas Wright, however he was able to provide a more exact date of when the take over happened which according to his notes happened in 1964, (and likewise, as side Stuart has never seen a 3 inch 1/8th White Bronze plate, they have all been 3.5 inch hight, which the rear 850AVB is obviously also 3.5)  however he says its the latest white bronze plate he has seen (the Rover being from November 1963 is obviously from just before the takeover) 

he further went to say he knew that White Bronze Ltd raised digit plates before the takeover used Bluemels letters/numbers (or a clone thereof) which is what your plate is also, its a Bluemels Pyramoid in Satin Silver

but until now he had never seen white bronze plate also explicitly stamped bluemels, so thats very curious! like to me, this plate is a very fascinating item in his own research as well  and we are both wondering what the hells going on! here it seems white Bronze and bluemels where in bed together, and then Suddenly Charles Wright just swoops in and takes over, but there is no mention of Bluemels in any history accounts for white bronze, but there clearly was something, first by way their use of bluemels digits and then your plate with Bluemels quite literally stamped on it! so yeah its a right curious flustercluck of companies! 

 

 

its worth noting that White Bronze also had a range of Pressed plates, and these notably where (as far as we know!) their own font/design, its not a bluemels font or anything, so its not like White Bronze was completely a bluemels sub-company or such! 

and ill just tag @MorrisItalSLX in on this, I am curious if you have any white bronze plates in your collection  

so yeah its a very curious one! 

 

 

 

[Zelandeth]

 

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

the Serial number is the number going round the top  like so

I dont actually know exactly what the long string of numbers in place of the issuers stamp is exactly but with that I dont think i have seen the long string of numbers on anything pre-computerised, so I think its a computer related number (a transaction ID or such?) however id have to conduct further research on that to verify it all

you did actually sort out the one on TPA after I made mention of it, so dont discredit yourself on that! I mean I was pleasantly surprised you knew that tax discs did otherwise in general have a validation character on them, its something I see most people miss out on when they make reproduction discs for their car, hence why I feel the need to mention it now since you do clearly care for the fine details

https://autoshite.com/topic/41948-my-replica-tax-discs-now-free-all-the-time-webshite-optimisation/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-2273091

anyways before someone chucks a brick through my window enough Tax disc rivet counting! and onwards to number plate rivet counting instead

 

I heard back from Stuart about it, and he knew much the same as I did, of that White Bronze Ltd being taken over by Chas Wright, however he was able to provide a more exact date of when the take over happened which according to his notes happened in 1964, (and likewise, as side Stuart has never seen a 3 inch 1/8th White Bronze plate, they have all been 3.5 inch hight, which the rear 850AVB is obviously also 3.5)  however he says its the latest white bronze plate he has seen (the Rover being from November 1963 is obviously from just before the takeover) 

he further went to say he knew that White Bronze Ltd raised digit plates before the takeover used Bluemels letters/numbers (or a clone thereof) which is what your plate is also, its a Bluemels Pyramoid in Satin Silver

but until now he had never seen white bronze plate also explicitly stamped bluemels, so thats very curious! like to me, this plate is a very fascinating item in his own research as well  and we are both wondering what the hells going on! here it seems white Bronze and bluemels where in bed together, and then Suddenly Charles Wright just swoops in and takes over, but there is no mention of Bluemels in any history accounts for white bronze, but there clearly was something, first by way their use of bluemels digits and then your plate with Bluemels quite literally stamped on it! so yeah its a right curious flustercluck of companies! 

 

 

its worth noting that White Bronze also had a range of Pressed plates, and these notably where (as far as we know!) their own font/design, its not a bluemels font or anything, so its not like White Bronze was completely a bluemels sub-company or such! 

and ill just tag @MorrisItalSLX in on this, I am curious if you have any white bronze plates in your collection  

so yeah its a very curious one! 

 

 

 

Better?

Yes it probably should be a London Borough rather than Central - but I'm not making a stamp from scratch.  Close enough for me.

Also bolted the fuel filler back into place.

That's basically it for today.  Oil leak is definitely still there, but maybe slightly reduced.  Hard to say.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Better?

Yes it probably should be a London Borough rather than Central - but I'm not making a stamp from scratch.  Close enough for me.

Awesome!   I hope i did not come across as, well Im not sure what the word is

but I just wanted to point it out because again I know you also care for the details like I do and would want to know how things should be

I was not trying to point it out as a means to to deride your efforts or such or anything like that! but I realise it probably does come across a bit funny like that!

so I just wanted to clarify that LOL

[High Jetter]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:27 PM, LightBulbFun said:

yes I have spent far too many hours studying this sorts of thing! LOL

If you didn't, who would? I love this sort of in-depth knowledge of a subject.

[Zelandeth]

Only one job done today, sadly still suffering heavily from jetlag so by the time I'd got the day's tasks out the way it was about all I had energy (and brain) for.

All four doors on the Rover now actually have door seals again.  Rather than decomposing goo which was once rubber.

Simple enough job if really tedious.

Bag in the back seat is a bunch of recycling I ran out of time to drop off today.

Think I may have found one of the reasons the wind noise was so bad.

The passenger's front door needs adjustment, it's sitting a good 1/4" too far out at the top, so is actually sitting proud of the gutter.

So even with the new seal in there's quite a gap there still.

The driver's door has also dropped a bit probably due to wear on the hinge pins.

That I'm not massively surprised by on a car of this age to be honest.  That one at least *mostly* seals now.

Plus side of this (aside from hopefully less noise) is that the doors now actually close reasonably positively with a solid thump, rather than rattling on the latches as there was nothing to keep them tensioned when closed.  So hopefully they will rattle a bit less on the move now.

Edit: Managed to sneak in a quick test run after dinner.  Yes, the amount of general rattles in the cabin has been reduced by what feels like about 70% now the doors aren't rattling around like garden gates on a windy day.  The really intrusive wind noise is now very clearly centred solidly on the front passenger side door now too.  So adjusting that gap is definitely going to be high on the list.

[Zelandeth]

Turn of the Caddy for some TLC today, albeit just a bit of standard stuff.

Just getting the tyres rotated.  For less than £20 it's just not worth the hassle of hauling the jack, axle stands and torque wrench (once I've found it) out of the garage.  Wheel alignment was checked while I was there as there's still some what to my mind is excessive wear on the shoulders of the front tyres.  It was definitely out, albeit not massively.

We noted while the wheels were off that the brake pads are pretty much toast so will get those swapped out shortly.