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Zelandeth

Zel's Motoring Adventures...Lada, Citroen, Mercedes & AC Model 70 - 22/08 - Invacar post-paint-reassembly done.

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34 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Now there are two holes in it.  One at the rear seam and one next to where the pipe goes into the front of the box.  So that's a new back box needed...and I've serious doubts whether the middle section will survive being detached and reused. Also really needs a set of tyres (rears have plenty of tread left, but are circa 2010 and starting to perish, fronts are barely above the limit at this point)...this is going to be an expensive month.

Mine's just gone the other end of the back box, and repair sections (middle bit, but only from behind the cat) are available, and cheap.

EDIT: Mine's an HDI, just noticed yours is a totally different engine. 

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Would you mind photographing the physical layout and run of the outer throttle cable on TPA  from handlebars to carburettor? The layout on REV could be improved I think; it was done at the FoD because the old cable fell apart and so wasn't able to reproduce the exact cable run of before, which did work well. I gather it was based on the layout on Dolly, which may not have been the most ideal example to use for reference! There doesn't seem to be an obvious route for them to follow, so it would be good to see how and where the throttle cable runs on other Model 70s, to get an idea of where best it should go for ease of free movement.

You mention also the 'joiner under the dash' - could you elaborate? REV's new throttle cable goes end to end in one long run, with no joints.

I have seen that REV''s original (broken!) outer cable had a grease nipple along its length to enabel the addition of grease for lubrication. John, the gentleman who had REV and Dolly previously, advised that the nylon inserts in the outer throttle cables used to be removed on fitment, to ease the movement of the inner cable...

Many thanks!

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Will grab a photo when I get a chance.
 

From memory it heads under the car following a similar route to the handbrake cable, then runs through the cutouts in the chassis outriggers along with the wiring loom.

The joiner under the dash I believe is the grease point.  This is about 1/4 of the way between the bulkhead and the handlebars for me.

The exhaust for the Xantia will probably wind up being made in stainless, probably by Fusion Fabs who made the fuel tank for the Invacar for me.  I'm not messing about with cheap ones.  There really isn't much room around the back box and I know that even back when we sold these prior to 2005 we binned more than one generic system because of poor fit and rattling etc. 

The van has bags of room under so I wasn't expecting problems with fit so a cheap(ish) system, not taking that gamble this time.

It's also a turbocharged car, so having a system that flows well can make a heck of a difference to performance.

While I don't want to thoroughly "chav up" the car, but the complete and utter lack of exhaust note is something I've always felt was a bit of a shame on a car which was always marketed as the sporty version of the model.  So having a system made up where I can specify in a bit of a burble appeals.

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3 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Would you mind photographing the physical layout and run of the outer throttle cable on TPA  from handlebars to carburettor?

Just realised I can do better as I have photos of KPL's underside from when we did the initial inspection.

I've arrowed the cable where it drops under the car.

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Hope that's helpful!

Oh...and make sure the cable goes up through this little eyelet on the transmission so it stays clear of the CVT belt.

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Can't sleep, so have an update.

Firstly, Mrs6C... here's the "join" in the throttle cable under the dash.  It does look to be a grease point, though the cable outers are just a friction fit in the ends of it.

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I have paint!

Took a bit of discussion to come round to what was probably the best compromise in terms of being sprayable with the equipment I have, being suitable for the substrate, and not being horrifically dangerous so as to require a respirator with a remote air supply.  We got there in the end though.

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£11 for a litre - and a litre should go a lot further in a proper spray gun than in rattle cans if my prior experience is anything to go by.  The Halfords rattle cans were the best part of a tenner each.  Yeah...this should save me a few quid.

This paint has really good high build properties apparently, so all the better for scruffy fibreglass.

Picked up a suitable mask while I was there too.

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Haven't even come close to having time to get the spray gun out today, but couldn't resist having a peak.

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It's really hard to tell in the can obviously, but it looks a decently close match for my purposes.  If anything it's slightly lighter than the Halfords paint, which if it's not a perfect match is what I'd prefer.

Worth noting that the engine cover in shot there has several coats of clearcoat on as well, which this paint shouldn't require.  So that may also explain why it looks a bit darker.

No, there would have been nothing to stop me getting them to mix up the original colour at this point - sticking with this Ford colour is a purely personal choice at this stage.  I just like it better.

No idea if I'll have a chance to get anything done tomorrow at this stage....but I'd obviously like to get some spraying done.

Another part for the Invacar arrived this morning in the post (which I'd totally forgotten ordering).

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The blade I'd been using was stuffed despite having been on there only a few months and nobody locally stocks 10" ones any more.  Nor do any of the refill kits I have fit (the blade is too fat to fit in the retainers)...so I just ordered one.  Figured if I was doing that anyway I may as well get something that looks vaguely in period.

I'm not holding out much hope for it actually being even vaguely useful in terms of actually clearing the screen - but at least it won't scratch it when I forgot the existing blade is knackered and turn the wiper on in error again.  I've already got very lucky in that regard twice.

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Awesome stuff :) if that paint is the lighter blue that is on the lid then that's much better then the darker blue stuff you where using beforehand which was just that touch too dark/grey (cant quite put my finger on that)/blue to irk the crap out of me :mrgreen:

 

thats one thing both Rev and Dolly both need, new windscreen wiper blades, whoever said 10 inch at the Fod looks like you were bang on! :)

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oh forgot to say on the throttle cable front

yeah REV does not have that, its just a straight throttle cable outer that goes from the twist grip to the carb

I also see yours exits the cabin from the left side where on REV it exits from the right side, always thought that was just down to which side the twist grip is on, and I think it still is, it just happens that someone routed TPAs through the left hand hole even tho she is right hand throttle, but its something worth noting/trying on REV if all else fails LOL

as you can see in this picture, we had to tie the throttle cable in place, otherwise what would happen is the outer would slowly pull itself into the cabin as you turned the handle bars left and right etc, which then resulted in when you twisted the throttle grip, would jam the throttle on, until you physically pushed the outer back out through the hole (I also see I am missing a rubber grommet to prevent chafing we noticed the outer cable was rubbing there)

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On 8/14/2019 at 12:33 AM, Zelandeth said:

.....the complete and utter lack of exhaust note is something I've always felt was a bit of a shame on a car which was always marketed as the sporty version of the model.  So having a system made up where I can specify in a bit of a burble appeals.

By contrast the stainless system that will eventually go on the CX is going to be as quiet as a celebrity facing a major sex scandal. At my age I've had enough of exhausts with enough bass resonance to set off other car alarms.

Profusion Exhausts near Heathrow reckon they can put together a "silent" CX system for £1400 + VAT, so it's time to start saving.......

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Oh the exhaust for the Xantia will be very understated.  Just be nice to have something there, even if just a bit of a burble to accompany you as you pull out of the driveway with the windows open.  I have zero interest in making something antisocial or wearing on the motorway.

Had an opportunity to do a very quick test of the paint this evening - which was basically 30 minutes setting up the spray gun, wiping the panel down, then the same to clean the spray gun out.  Actually painting covered about five minutes.

Yeah...this is going to be an order of magnitude easier than any messing around with rattle cans.

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The green blob on the floor is a fair amount of the original paint matching test, spilled courtesy of next door's cat.  She is a menace.  No huge loss though given the neon peppermint colour didn't seem to really match anything well on the car.

It's not been put down nearly thick enough here, I'm fully aware of that.  This was just a quick test - a bunch of masking and cleaning will be done before I hopefully do a reasonably complete run round the car.  Shouldn't take me long to establish how far the paint is going too so I can see if I need to go and get more well before actually running short.

It's been a while since I've had a decent A2 rated respirator on.  Having a bit of equipment which successfully totally filters out the smell of solvents is *weird* I tell you.  You kind of expect goggles to restrict your vision, ear protectors to muffle sound...but to have a little plastic thing that does little to restrict air flow essentially be able to turn smell on and off is something which messes with my head a bit.

Effective though - was utterly oblivious to how strong the garage was smelling until I took the mask off (after airing the garage out a bit too)... should be effective though given that's why I bought it.

First time I've had paint actually made with spraying in mind through the spray gun...so much more user friendly than rattle cans.  Hopefully there will be an evening update with some more photos with a bit of luck.

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Awesome stuff on the paintwork :) 

I look forward to TPA being in 1 shade of blue!

BTW given the experience you gained repairing the corner without the indicator lense on in that picture,  do you plan to re do the other corner now?

(if it was my car id get way too obsessed with making sure the corners had the same bend radius etc LOL)

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Not worrying about the body beyond getting it to a uniform colour at this point.  I could faff around for months trying to get those corners properly matched.  For now though I'm getting the paintwork done then will be concentrating on actually getting some miles under the wheels.

I may well look to get a mould put together from one of the local pair either over the winter or next year to assist in getting things put to bed in the contour matching department.  I've wasted more than enough time on it so far though.

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yeah thats what would probably happen with me if I was handling the corners id look at the corners and go "hmm is that one slightly out or just me" and then there goes 3 hours as I faff around with it :mrgreen: (and knowing me just make it 10x worse LOL) 

(I was just mentioning that corner now before the major paintwork gets underway in case there was something you wanted to do to it before the paint went down and then suddenly its too late without having to undo a bunch of paintwork)

I very much look forward to TPA getting out and about :)

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Nah, not worrying about it.  At some point she will need a full respray of a better quality with full surface prep etc, but given how disinclined to shift some of the original paint has shown itself to be the stripping process at the very least will be getting handed over to a professional body shop.  Will probably do a fair degree of strip down then as well so all lights removed entirely, the glass out, probably roof off and bonnet/engine cover hinges removed etc.  Treating this very much as a practice run.

That's a job for a year or so down the line I reckon though. 

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Some progress.  First off was getting everything masked off so I didn't need to worry about overspray on stuff I didn't want painted.

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Bit more experimental spraying was done.

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No question that it's a thousand times better than where we started.

If you ever wondered if it's worth wearing a mask...well here's what the particulate filters look like now after about an hour and a half.

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They were white when we started, and this has produced about a quarter of the amount of garage fog that the rattle cans do...so yes, make sure you're wearing the correct PPE.  It's somehow reassuring to actually see evidence of the filters doing their job.

The only issue I seem to be having is actually getting enough paint onto the car.  Think I'll need to experiment with a bit more thinners than the instructions actually recommend to see what happens.

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Will do a bit more experimentation with paint mix over the weekend and see if I can get a thicker layer put down.  Feels like we're heading in the right direction, even though there's a fair way to go yet.

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Definitely struggling with the spray gun a bit.  I don't seem to be able to get any sort of a wet edge laid down no matter what I've done with the settings and the paint doesn't seem to be atomising all that well, hence the pebbly texture we seem to be getting most of the time.

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When covering other colours (like the grey primer on the roof front edge) it was immediately apparent how thinly the paint was going on too.  I did a little experimentation with thinners and found that I could get a decently "wet" spray - but at such a point that the paint was watered down to the extent I wound up with odd effects where the pigment had run...so not really a solution.

I think the £18 spray gun may need to be eyed as a possible contributor to these issues...I don't think air supply is an issue as I've verified I've got suitable pressure at the delivery point (not just shown on the regulator).

Every now and then it will sputter for a second then give me a few seconds of actually decent spray...so there are some spots where things are actually glossy.

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Bit frustrating to be honest as so far I've not come close to matching the finish I was getting from rattle cans (admittedly at about ten times the price) beforehand.  As demonstrated by the engine cover below, where it caught the rain a little yesterday evening when the back end was sticking out the garage door a bit.

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We'll get there I'm sure...just going to take some time and experimentation I think.

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It's a major cosmetic step forward so don't be too hard on yourself.  Even if experimentation does not give a more glossy result you will have the option of polishing until it shines once the paint has hardened, or even go the DW route and apply clear coat.  I brush painted my Reliant and years of polishing (20!) has given it quite a shine though the finish requires at least 10 paces away to look decent 😀.

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46 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Every now and then it will sputter for a second then give me a few seconds of actually decent spray.

theres not something floating around inside the gun blocking jets or what have you?

what you describe reminds me actually a lot of the carb on the Model 70 *cough splutter pop!* and then off to the races :) 

paint job looks good to me anyhow just on the fact she is all 1 uniform colour :) 

there will always be worse invacar paint finishes out there :mrgreen:

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(im not bothered about the paint on mine much at all, except for in this one photo because otherwise it slightly spoils what I think is quite a nice photo LOL)

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Not being able to get a good layer of paint down has three main drawbacks.

[] The obvious inability to get a gloss finish without significant work with the cutting paste later on and/or clearcoat.

[] Difficulty in getting a properly even finish on any of the larger flat areas as there's not enough paint to get a proper can pattern.  The offside quarter looks very patchy because of this.

[] Inability to build the paint up over imperfections.  This paint has pretty good properties from the perspective of being self levelling...but not if you're doing the equivalent of spattering it on the surface by flicking it off a toothbrush.

It's definitely a step forward, no question there...just want to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious before I accept where we stand with regards to the finish.  Matt or gloss, if I can get it all looking even I'll be happy enough for now.

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Nothing massively meaningful to report from today.

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Have had a brief chat with a friend who does a fair bit of paint on commercial vehicles, and he has suggested that working with this type of paint, a 1mm nozzle in the spray gun is probably smaller than ideal for full panel spraying.

This seems to tie in with my experimental results, where I managed to get a lovely finish on the little box I was using as my test subject - yet it felt like I was blowing paint through a drinking straw again when I turned back to the car.

He has suggested given the surface isn't great and we're using PU 1K paint, it would be worth trying painting it with a small roller.  That's four people who have suggested that now...so I'll give that a shot tomorrow.  Should make a good deal less mess anyway...and should be pretty quick.

Hopefully my throttle cable will arrive shortly... I've not discounted the National Microcar Rally yet, but I'd really need to get a few days of solid testing done...

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will say one thing, not sure if its just the light or what have you, but the colour is much better then what you got out of the rattle cans :)

im very interested to hear how you get on with the throttle cable given the PITA that is mine currently!

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Just realised on looking closer that the spray gun I have comes with both a 1mm nozzle (which I have) or 1.5mm one.  I didn't spot this when I bought it.  The 1.5mm one looks to be far more suited to this sort of paint.

Hmm... methinks I may be grabbing the larger one tomorrow.  It also has a far larger paint container which wouldn't be a bad thing.  This one I currently have only holds 100ml to the brim (so realistically 80ml or so usable), so refills are a frequent occurrence.

That's what I get for not doing my homework.

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That me getting snapped on people's dash cam footage again?

 

Unless I'm hallucinating, it looks like we might actually be making progress now.

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Ten points to everyone who suggested that a 1mm nozzle was smaller than ideal for this paint and application.  1.5mm is working far better.  It feels like far more of the paint is now actually ending up on the panel now than just floating around in the garage.  I had about 250ml left of the original litre...and it felt like it went way further than two refills of the original spray gun would have.  There's probably room to open it up a bit more yet to be fair too.

Will get an additional two litres picked up tomorrow, get the last few bits of car masked up, then have another bash at it.  It's behaving far closer to what I was expecting with this spray gun though, and is giving a finish which it's actually worth flatting back for the next coat, rather than a finish that is rougher than the abrasive I'd plan to flat it with.

Time will tell if it's a false start...but this feels like progress.

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20 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

I was in the garage in the white Sovereign waving frantically when you went past, then reappeared and all I got was the roof by the time I got my phone out!

Ah, today was one of those days where I was trying to get about a dozen things done at once so wasn't hanging about.

 

Granted, I rarely seem to when driving the Activa!

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What pressure are you spraying at? If you have a pressure gauge on the gun, then you should read the pressure with the gun trigger half on so the air is flowing but not the paint. I would recommend about 2bar. Also, make sure that the flow adjuster is wound out enough 

Too higher air pressure will cause the paint to atomise too much and you won't be able to get it on wet enough. If you don't have a pressure gauge, pop some thinners on the cup, hold the gun sideways in front of you and pull the trigger. You should see a nice full fan of spray. If the pressure is too high, it will be a broken fan with spray at the top and bottom but not so much in the middle. It's amazing the difference you will see when using the correct pressure.

Coming on leaps and bounds though.

Cheers

Ben

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