Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 14/04 - Overdue service items...

[Daviemck2006]

In my humble opinion the Ford blue looks the best. I would stick with it. Get a decent finish on the invacar and then do the activa. Your bound to improve the lacquer peel on it!

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

[SiC]

Your Invacar certainly attracted a lot of photos of the event. Pretty much every gallery from FoTU has a picture of it. 

[LightBulbFun]

7 hours ago, SiC said:

Your Invacar certainly attracted a lot of photos of the event. Pretty much every gallery from FoTU has a picture of it. 

I cant wait for next year because there was 1 Invacar at the 2018 event, 1 at the 2019 event

but hopefully by 2020 we should have at least 4 to gate crash the event with

[quicksilver]

For what it's worth, here's my thoughts on the colour saga. Admittedly I'm too young to have seen a brand new Model 70 and only became aware of them later in their life, but my memory tells me they were a definite powder blue colour like TWC and REV. The paint on ATW looks far too green to me, as does the colour-matched stuff on the front of TPA. OPH is an interesting one as it's mostly blue but the burnt bits have turned a similar shade of green - look at the roof and you can see two distinctly different colours.

Do I remember rightly that ACs have a coloured gelcoat? That makes me wonder if the insides of TP are actually painted or it's the bare green gelcoat you can see, and if the paint has been burnt off completely would also explain why OPH has gone green.

[Fumbler]

Pigment impregnation into fibreglass would be my thoughts. The only other application of this techinque that I know of was for outdoor warning sirens from the same time, however I'm sure there's many other instances as it's a real advantage that fibreglass has over metal.

[LightBulbFun]

TPAs inside has defo been painted at 1 point, there's even a drop of paint on the VIN plate  

 

we still have not gotten to the bottom of what had coloured gel coat and what didn't sadly!

(but we do know at least some cars/bits where impregnated turquoise and some bits where painted turquoise, we just aint figured out if there's any pattern to it or not)

[Zelandeth]

That paint drip is probably from when the roof immediately above the plate was repaired.  At that point they appear to have painted everything in that corner as well.

The rear body moulding in this case does indeed have a coloured gel coat, as does the roof. The front section however was painted, from the factory so long as we accept the assumption that it's not been changed during the life of the vehicle.

[Zelandeth]

Two things of note today.

Firstly me using going out to run errands being used as an excuse to take the Invacar out for a spin again.  Confidence in the fact it wouldn't randomly explode encouraged by the trip to and from FotU something needed to be tested: can she do 70?  Yes, of course she can.  Confused the heck out of a few other road users!

Not something you'd want to do for hours at a time and I'd definitely question the wisdom of driving her on a motorway on all but the calmest day, but she's more than capable of doing motorway speeds. 

Secondly was a present for the van which arrived on my doorstep from Shite Knight for the van just as I was about to lock up for the evening.

They should look the part once fitted.

Sorry I didn't invite you in or offer hospitality... didn't realise how rude I was until you'd left.  I'll try to do better next time!  Hope the rest of your trip home goes smoothly!

Look forward to getting those trims fitted tomorrow.

[LightBulbFun]

happy to hear TPA is in good enough shape to do 70Mph now  do you think she could hit the long touted 82Mph if provoked or where you at wide open throttle at that point?  

(also please tell me you recorded it?  )

it really makes me grin how much of a "Q Car" the Model 70 is  (In that no it can't do 150Mph or a rolling burn out, but no one expects the Model 70 to be as capable/quick as they actually are and that is the definition of a sleeper/Q car )

 

I look forward to seeing how the camper looks on those wheel trims  

[DodgyBastard]

10 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Two things of note today.

Firstly me using going out to run errands being used as an excuse to take the Invacar out for a spin again.  Confidence in the fact it wouldn't randomly explode encouraged by the trip to and from FotU something needed to be tested: can she do 70?  Yes, of course she can.  Confused the heck out of a few other road users!

Not something you'd want to do for hours at a time and I'd definitely question the wisdom of driving her on a motorway on all but the calmest day, but she's more than capable of doing motorway speeds. 

Secondly was a present for the van which arrived on my doorstep from Shite Knight for the van just as I was about to lock up for the evening.

They should look the part once fitted.

Sorry I didn't invite you in or offer hospitality... didn't realise how rude I was until you'd left.  I'll try to do better next time!  Hope the rest of your trip home goes smoothly!

Look forward to getting those trims fitted tomorrow.

 

Don't be silly, I'm sure you weren't expecting me to turn up after 9pm, I spent too long talking shit with the owner of the 305 so my Mrs was keen to drop the trims off and get a move on.

 

RJC_1260 by srblythe, on Flickr

RJC_1261 by srblythe, on Flickr

RJC_1262 by srblythe, on Flickr

We got stuck in more traffic on the way home and didn't get back to Dunfermline until 7am.

[Zelandeth]

Well I learned something this afternoon: apparently there is more than one type of these trims to suit different wheel offsets. 

These are about 1/2" too shallow to clear the centre of the wheel dish.

Balls.  Back to the drawing board I guess.  I know there is a version of these which fits as I've seen a T1 with them fitted, so they are out there (unless that van was wearing non-standard wheels of course), so back to looking for those or the smaller centre caps.

Thanks to SK for bringing them down anyhow, really appreciate it.

[Zelandeth]

Some of you may recall I had issues with the clutch master cylinder on the van a few months ago in that it wouldn't hold pressure, so the clutch would slowly engage itself again over the course of a few seconds even if the pedal was kept to the floor.

This was initially resolved by thoroughly cleaning it, however the problem has now resurfaced...so I think it's going to be time for a new master cylinder this time...have got one on order.  Hopefully no more comedy kangaroo hopping away from junctions once that's fitted.

Both it and the Xantia are due a service too, so need to get the stuff in for that shortly.

[Zelandeth]

Care package arrived for the van today.

 

Thumbs up for Simply Car Parts...I only ordered this on Monday evening!

Here's the part number for those of you playing along at home.

This is what Mercedes would have ordered apparently...however didn't because the dealer has gone crazy and now won't order anything for me because it's a commercial vehicle and they insist that I deal with a local commercial vehicle specialist they've apparently partnered with.  Said specialist won't deal with non-trade customers - and even before that had been ascertained, literally laughed in my face when I went in looking for parts for a 29 year old van.

The guy at the parts desk at Mercedes agrees it's an utterly stupid situation and has on a couple of occasions so far gone well out of his way to get around this situation by tracking down which parts were shared with cars - this didn't show anything non-commercial though, only the 601 platform, so we were stuck.  Was a bit surprised they'd be ordering in a Febi part though...all the stuff I've had from them has been in MB packaging and if I recall usually showing as Bosch made.

Whatever...not going to grumble at a Febi part, I trust that just as much as a Bosch part with a Mercedes logo stamped on it.

Just a shame Mercedes have made such a daft decision, especially as their heritage parts support has always been so fantastic (and I'm sure it still is for passenger cars), I was staggered the first few weeks I had the van and they were able to find me a replacement seems lens for the cracked indicator light on the dashboard...

Not going to let it spoil things though...doesn't mean I won't rant about it though!

[Zelandeth]

Nothing massive to report other that than with use TPA seems to just keep running better.  Had her out this afternoon to run a few errands, rubbing shoulders with rush hour traffic.  No bother.

Have finally brought the PCV valves picked up last week inside for a clean up and fitting when I next get a chance.  They're used examples but in a lot better state than the ones on the car currently.

No idea whether I should expect this to make any difference to running, but it certainly can't hurt I figure.

 

[Zelandeth]

That was pretty painless.

New clutch master cylinder is now fitted to the van.

Only slight headache was discovering that the hose clip had cut into the hose to the reservoir meaning I had to trim the end back a little, so the hose is now a little too short.  Not a major issue in the grand scheme of things, hose looks pretty crusty anyway so probably not a bad idea to change it anyway.

The test drive revealed quite how bad it had become.  The gearchange is considerably more slick now which leads me to believe that we weren't seeing the full range of motion actually at the clutch end.  The pedal is also a good deal lighter which is surprising given it was already surprisingly light for a design this old.

Next task there is probably going to be getting hold of some more fuel line and swapping out the tails which connect the rigid vacuum lines around the fuel pump together (I'm assuming they're something to do with the system which raises the idle speed slightly when the engine is cold) as they have perished a bit, and I figure it just makes sense to get them dealt with while I'm thinking of it.

[PhilA]

Pedal needs a flying eyeball on it because I first glanced at the title and misread Van Clutch as Von Dutch.

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

Been struggling for energy a bit this last couple of days so not been a huge amount going on.

Have got the new PCV hardware fitted to the engine on the Invacar though.

While I had the valves off it gave me a good chance to see how things were looking in the vapour separator now that we've had a few decent runs under our belt.

This used to look like the aftermath of a water cooled engine with a stuffed head gasket.  Glad to see that the moisture has all boiled off now.  I'd ideally like to get the whole tower off to give it a really good scrub internally.  However given that they are apparently quite prone to leaking at the joint to the crankcase where mine is miraculously oil tight I'm probably just going to leave it be rather than tempt fate.

Not expecting the new PCV kit to make any difference to normal driving, but will be nice to know that side of things is working as the designer intended.

[Zelandeth]

Decided that it was time to properly sort the Invacar throttle cable.  My body's had held perfectly for an order of magnitude longer than I'd expected, but I always felt I was playing a lottery every time I went to open the throttle.  Not ideal.  This was starting to become a real matter of stress when driving the thing so I felt it had to be sorted.

Of course Halfords, GSF, Motorserv, the independent I've forgotten the name of and ECP were of no use as stuff like that by the metre hasn't been stocked in a decade or more.  Like heater hose I discovered a year or so back.

I did then try my usual bike shop as there's no reason bike brake cable wouldn't work (the fitting on the twist grip is actually the same as the brake cables on the C5), sadly the longest they have in stock is 2.75m - and I need three and a bit.  Tried another three bike shops with the same results...cables just come pre-made in packets now, has been years since they made them up in store and crimped the ends on for you apparently.

Fine...20m of cable and fittings has been ordered from Amazon.  I'd been trying to avoid throwing money at the internet, but meh...if the actual shops around me don't have what I'm after what choice do I have. 

It's the sort of thing which will get used in the future too, so not bothered about having to buy in extra stock...just irks me that I can't just go out and buy simple stuff these days.  Guess I'm a bit of a luddite...

 

[LightBulbFun]

suddenly that little bit happier there was a couple spare throttle cables in the Box of spare parts that came with REV and Dolly!

im glad you where able to find something in the end, and given apparently back in the day Model 70's where known for eating throttle cables, its probably not a bad thing you have 20 meters of the stuff now!

 

side note, make sure you check your outer is in good nick too, the one on REV was just as damaged as the cable itself was

[Zelandeth]

NoThe outer is a little dog eared just at the end but is perfectly serviceable.  I might see if I can flip the last bit between the joiner under the dash and the handlebars through 180 degrees to put the worn bit out of sight...if needs be though I can easily change that later. 
 

It's just annoying that this is the sort of thing I remember (even when I lived a 20 minute drive from civilisation) I clearly remember being able to just go out, grab random generic items like this and be back home, part in hand inside an hour.

Even more annoying is that I now have a sneaking suspicion that this is coming all the way from China given I've just had a notification from Royal Mail that someone has posted something to me from there...and I've not ordered anything else lately.  So much for "UK based seller" then...

 

[LightBulbFun]

I know what you mean, I do wonder if it is down to the stores themselves  just buying ready made stuff from the internet and just reselling it on

there should be a spare throttle cable sitting on Dolly's seat IIRC (well that's where I left the cable at the end of the day on the 20th after repairing REV with the other cable) which your welcome to nab as a "get out of jail for free" card if you want  (note its of the type that has a balled end which i'm told is not as good as the ones with the separate cylindrical bit on the end, I do wonder why exactly)

 

[Zelandeth]

Sadly the cable I need is the one with the barrel shaped end on it.  The other types won't locate properly in the grip.

Not precious about changing the twist grip (it will probably happen at some point anyway as it's hardly the most comfortable thing to hold) though none of the "throttle system in a box" solutions have anywhere near enough cable in.

Based on my experience with bikes over a number of years, the barrel type cable ends tend to be more reliable.  I reckon this is because the cable end is free to rotate as twist grip (or brake lever) is pulled, whereas the "top hat" ones hold the cable rigidly in place.  So that movement puts more strain on the cable and will cause fatigue over time.

I think the key to long life of the cable on the Invacar is probably to lubricate it beyond all sense.  It's a massively long cable run compared to that you'd expect on a motorbike, so there's probably a lot more strain on the cable just due to drag than the twist grip was probably designed with in mind.  I imagine that's also why the external throttle return spring is so important, whereas *most* cars will still close the throttle without the need for such things.

Only one I can think of which had a similar external "helper" spring was the Skoda Estelle...which similar to the Invacar has a really long throttle cable because it too is rear engined.  Probably have a photo of the arrangement somewhere I can dig out if you're curious.

Really need to look at the Xantia exhaust this weekend, it's rattling something rotten just now...yet I've no idea why.  The back box is still securely attached to the rest of the system and the car, but it's very obviously fouling on the bodywork...so not sure what's going on. At a guess I have to assume I've lost a hanger somewhere which is allowing excessive movement...but wherever it is it ain't obvious.  Time to get the ramps out I think.

[LightBulbFun]

interesting  

the end on the spare cable is like a ball rather than a barrel or a top hat shape

it looked something like this IIRC

(to me it seemed better then the barrel shaped one because the round ball would of let the throttle cable turn inside the twist grip/sheathing if it wanted to rather then twist and put stress on itself, but im hardly an expert on these matters!)

yeah the return spring because of the long cable run, reminds me at the Fod when I was asking if anyone had a spare throttle cable and @brownnova proudly fetched one from his 2CV for his 2CV but we quickly realised thats not going to work LOL

(as I mentioned given the experience you just had, im happy we had a suitable spare in the stash of parts, because it was mentioned when the cable broke before I went to raid the spare parts stash that "oh you can just get a new cable from a bike shop or such" )

as a side note do you still have that label from the bag the throttle cable now in REV came from? maybe might turn something up

[Zelandeth]

Took half an hour out to investigate the rattling exhaust on the Xantia.  Not least because it's driving me round the twist.

...Great, now I'm going to have that song stuck in my head.

I'm none the wiser.  It's not broken anywhere and all the hangers are present and correct and in good order.  The only possible theory I've got is that someone has managed to bash that corner of the car but very carefully managed to only smack the tailpipe, bending one of the hangers or the pipe itself.  It's fouling on the boot floor and the rear chassis rail (yes I know...monocoque - but it's what would be the rear chassis rail so I'm using the term) quite firmly.  However I can't see how that's possible without either the exhaust or the car changing shape.  It's definitely never done this until in the last week or two.

The rear silencer is distinctly crusty though.  Of course I'm an idiot so felt it necessary to poke the crusty bits.

Now there are two holes in it.  One at the rear seam and one next to where the pipe goes into the front of the box.  So that's a new back box needed...and I've serious doubts whether the middle section will survive being detached and reused. Also really needs a set of tyres (rears have plenty of tread left, but are circa 2010 and starting to perish, fronts are barely above the limit at this point)...this is going to be an expensive month.

Attempted (and failed) to locate an independent paint specialist this afternoon, so wound up at Plan B, which is LKQ Coatings.  I've used them before and have always been very impressed with the service.  We've got all the forms filled in, and hopefully will get some paint mixed up in cellulose tomorrow and some decent primer.  Hopefully that will be a step towards getting the Invacar looking rather more presentable.

[LightBulbFun]

like for invacar paintage not for exhaust woes

order an exhaust from the same place you got the van one from and see if its also missing the internal baffles?

[robinmasters]

34 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Now there are two holes in it.  One at the rear seam and one next to where the pipe goes into the front of the box.  So that's a new back box needed...and I've serious doubts whether the middle section will survive being detached and reused. Also really needs a set of tyres (rears have plenty of tread left, but are circa 2010 and starting to perish, fronts are barely above the limit at this point)...this is going to be an expensive month.

Mine's just gone the other end of the back box, and repair sections (middle bit, but only from behind the cat) are available, and cheap.

EDIT: Mine's an HDI, just noticed yours is a totally different engine. 

[Mrs6C]

Would you mind photographing the physical layout and run of the outer throttle cable on TPA  from handlebars to carburettor? The layout on REV could be improved I think; it was done at the FoD because the old cable fell apart and so wasn't able to reproduce the exact cable run of before, which did work well. I gather it was based on the layout on Dolly, which may not have been the most ideal example to use for reference! There doesn't seem to be an obvious route for them to follow, so it would be good to see how and where the throttle cable runs on other Model 70s, to get an idea of where best it should go for ease of free movement.

You mention also the 'joiner under the dash' - could you elaborate? REV's new throttle cable goes end to end in one long run, with no joints.

I have seen that REV''s original (broken!) outer cable had a grease nipple along its length to enabel the addition of grease for lubrication. John, the gentleman who had REV and Dolly previously, advised that the nylon inserts in the outer throttle cables used to be removed on fitment, to ease the movement of the inner cable...

Many thanks!

[Zelandeth]

Will grab a photo when I get a chance.
 

From memory it heads under the car following a similar route to the handbrake cable, then runs through the cutouts in the chassis outriggers along with the wiring loom.

The joiner under the dash I believe is the grease point.  This is about 1/4 of the way between the bulkhead and the handlebars for me.

The exhaust for the Xantia will probably wind up being made in stainless, probably by Fusion Fabs who made the fuel tank for the Invacar for me.  I'm not messing about with cheap ones.  There really isn't much room around the back box and I know that even back when we sold these prior to 2005 we binned more than one generic system because of poor fit and rattling etc. 

The van has bags of room under so I wasn't expecting problems with fit so a cheap(ish) system, not taking that gamble this time.

It's also a turbocharged car, so having a system that flows well can make a heck of a difference to performance.

While I don't want to thoroughly "chav up" the car, but the complete and utter lack of exhaust note is something I've always felt was a bit of a shame on a car which was always marketed as the sporty version of the model.  So having a system made up where I can specify in a bit of a burble appeals.

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Would you mind photographing the physical layout and run of the outer throttle cable on TPA  from handlebars to carburettor?

Just realised I can do better as I have photos of KPL's underside from when we did the initial inspection.

I've arrowed the cable where it drops under the car.

Hope that's helpful!

Oh...and make sure the cable goes up through this little eyelet on the transmission so it stays clear of the CVT belt.

[Zelandeth]

Can't sleep, so have an update.

Firstly, Mrs6C... here's the "join" in the throttle cable under the dash.  It does look to be a grease point, though the cable outers are just a friction fit in the ends of it.

I have paint!

Took a bit of discussion to come round to what was probably the best compromise in terms of being sprayable with the equipment I have, being suitable for the substrate, and not being horrifically dangerous so as to require a respirator with a remote air supply.  We got there in the end though.

£11 for a litre - and a litre should go a lot further in a proper spray gun than in rattle cans if my prior experience is anything to go by.  The Halfords rattle cans were the best part of a tenner each.  Yeah...this should save me a few quid.

This paint has really good high build properties apparently, so all the better for scruffy fibreglass.

Picked up a suitable mask while I was there too.

Haven't even come close to having time to get the spray gun out today, but couldn't resist having a peak.

It's really hard to tell in the can obviously, but it looks a decently close match for my purposes.  If anything it's slightly lighter than the Halfords paint, which if it's not a perfect match is what I'd prefer.

Worth noting that the engine cover in shot there has several coats of clearcoat on as well, which this paint shouldn't require.  So that may also explain why it looks a bit darker.

No, there would have been nothing to stop me getting them to mix up the original colour at this point - sticking with this Ford colour is a purely personal choice at this stage.  I just like it better.

No idea if I'll have a chance to get anything done tomorrow at this stage....but I'd obviously like to get some spraying done.

Another part for the Invacar arrived this morning in the post (which I'd totally forgotten ordering).

The blade I'd been using was stuffed despite having been on there only a few months and nobody locally stocks 10" ones any more.  Nor do any of the refill kits I have fit (the blade is too fat to fit in the retainers)...so I just ordered one.  Figured if I was doing that anyway I may as well get something that looks vaguely in period.

I'm not holding out much hope for it actually being even vaguely useful in terms of actually clearing the screen - but at least it won't scratch it when I forgot the existing blade is knackered and turn the wiper on in error again.  I've already got very lucky in that regard twice.