Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 16/04 - Routine Consumables...

[dozeydustman]

I think a light abrasive such as a scotch pad would do it without causing damage to the tyre. Could also try acetone nail polish remover - it's rubber safe. Even removing the wheels from TPA and giving them a good jet wash may remove the bulk of it.

[Noel Tidybeard]

8 minutes ago, RayMK said:

If the paint on the tyres won't come off with reasonable abrasion, why not lightly spray them white for that stateside yo!?

fify

[LightBulbFun]

thats one way to sort out the throttle cable! *notes it down for own use* happy to see you got it going in the end  I do want to sit in TPA again so I can see how her throttle action compares to REV and see if I can suss out what's wrong with REVs throttle action (as currently the throttle in REV is quite hard to operate and I dont recall it being that stiff in TPA)

on the throttle cable outer, John mentioned how he used to remove the inner nylon sheathing from the throttle cable outers, apparently while it did shorten throttle cable life a bit, it made the action much quicker nicer etc I have not done this with REV but its an option im thinking about

I will have to get one of those windscreen wipers for REV

on the pulley front its 10.25 inches indeed  

 

On 8/19/2019 at 11:59 AM, LightBulbFun said:

speaking of pulleys the workshop manual rather curiously rather then talking about drive belt tension specifically states that the distance between the centers of the 2 shafts carrying the pulleys should be 10.25 inches apart,  it would be interesting to see how yours is set, and if setting it to 10.25 inches specifically, makes things better or worse...

(same goes for TPA in that regard)

I find it rather curious how they specifically say 10.25 inches rather than "make sure belt is under so much tension" I guess they are relying on the belts being made to a tight enough tolerance that all belts have the same properties regarding tensioning etc

I also mentioned the above at the time because I noticed everyone was just trying to tension the belts by eye so I was not sure if you/ @dollywobbler had missed the 10.25 inch bit in the manual or not, so I mentioned it to be on the safe side

im very happy to hear its resulted in TPA running even better then before! 

also TPA is looking very nice now! thank you for the "stock photo" images, I can finally update the picture in my survivors list now

 

what sort number plates did you order for TPA?  (I personally quite like the pressed ally plates like what REV has and I imagine a pair would suit TPA nicely  easy enough to say when they are both the same model of car  )

[xtriple]

Push bike shops used to make up cables of any length and a variety of ends on the spot, do they not do that anymore? Also 'proper' motorcycle shops but they have all disapeared sadly.

Not being funny or deriding your efforts (which I much applaud in fact) but why so much love for 'crip carriages'? They were universally hated when people with disabilities were forced to use them or stay at home and I recall the sad demise of them as being an event with much cheering and a mass influx of modded Metros!

I am a great lover of the worst cars history has thrown at us, but this love affair with 70s has me baffled.

[LightBulbFun]

its interesting that you say that, as per the research that I have done in my thread

it seems a lot of the hate was from a vocal minority and just the fact they were a fashionable thing to hate on at the time

much like Top gear and the Morris marina etc (and its because of this social stigma put on them by normal able bodied people which caused some of the disability community to seek a normal car, not because anything was wrong with their invalid vehicle persay, but because they just wanted a normal car because how society viewed the invalid vehicle)

the majority of people with disabilities at the time where very happy with their invalid vehicles because of the freedom of mobility it afforded them

the Government intended to scrap them all by 1981, and yet the final one was not withdrawn until October 14th 2004! (also keep in mind even today the Model 70 etc can cater to someone's disability much better then adapted normal car can, because the invalid vehicle was built specifically for being adaptable to pretty much any disability under the sun you have 1 arm and no legs? No problem you can drive and operate a Model 70 no problem with the Tiller control option for example  )

and it was also realised on here that the Model 70 especially even just used as a regular car is not as awful as some of the critics might have you think!

I highly recommend you check out my 72 page megathread on the little blue besties  https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence/

 

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, xtriple said:

Push bike shops used to make up cables of any length and a variety of ends on the spot, do they not do that anymore? Also 'proper' motorcycle shops but they have all disapeared sadly.

Not being funny or deriding your efforts (which I much applaud in fact) but why so much love for 'crip carriages'? They were universally hated when people with disabilities were forced to use them or stay at home and I recall the sad demise of them as being an event with much cheering and a mass influx of modded Metros!

I am a great lover of the worst cars history has thrown at us, but this love affair with 70s has me baffled.

All the bike shops I could find round here just have pre-made cables in packages now - they don't have anything on a reel.  Which on a front engined car would probably be just fine where you don't need a cable that's 3.75 metres long.  The longest I found pre-made locally was 2.75 metres - intended to be the rear brake cable for a tandem.

For me the interest was primarily engineering wise as I had never seen one consciously until DW unearthed his pair.  I lived out in the sticks in rural Scotland, so unsurprising there I guess.  The fact that it's such a mish-mash of over engineered and crude just appeals to me. 

How much fun it actually is to drive was an unexpected bonus. 

A lot of my driving these days is really local anyway, so having something small is great for that.

Plus my garage is really narrow - to the extent that trying to get a full sized car in there is pretty much an act of futility unless you want to climb out through the sunroof or out the boot.

There are a LOT of urban myths floating around about these cars (a lot of which ARE far more true for the earlier models), and disproving some of those has become something of an amusing passtime. 

Given the reputation they have I was really, really surprised the first time I drove TPA properly having sorted the drive pulleys out.

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

what sort number plates did you order for TPA?  (I personally quite like the pressed ally plates like what REV has and I imagine a pair would suit TPA nicely  easy enough to say when they are both the same model of car  )

I've gone with the plastic digit option.  Looks more in fitting with the date of the car to my eyes...and was cheaper than the pressed ally ones.

There is quite a bit of drag on the throttle, though a lot better than it was, and the cable seemed to move freely and smoothly within the outer before I attached it to the carb - so I think it might be largely down to the twist grip itself or a combination...There's far less mechanical gain there than you'd have with a throttle pedal, so it might just be a bit stiffer than normal...especially with the long cable.

[quicksilver]

TP is certainly looking good now and has come a very long way in the last couple of years! I re-watched the first episode of Project Invacar recently and several times Ian looks at poor old TP and says how unlikely it is that this one would ever see the road again. How wrong he was...

 

I've started bringing my Invacar experiences up to date on my blog with a feature on TP. There will be more Invacar stuff to come too.

[LightBulbFun]

44 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

TP is certainly looking good now and has come a very long way in the last couple of years! I re-watched the first episode of Project Invacar recently and several times Ian looks at poor old TP and says how unlikely it is that this one would ever see the road again. How wrong he was...

 

I've started bringing my Invacar experiences up to date on my blog with a feature on TP. There will be more Invacar stuff to come too.

yeah it really is quite something how far TPA has come

I enjoyed that blog post very much it was a very good read  

[Zelandeth]

I figure that by far the best thing for TPA at the moment is to cover miles given how long she's sat dormant.  To this end I took the very long way round both to and from the shops this afternoon, covering roughly another 40 miles.

Nothing I've ever owned does quite such a good job of making conventional parking spaces look absolutely massive.

She didn't miss a beat.  The only gremlin I have discovered is that the heater control flaps aren't closing fully in the control box...so the heater doesn't switch off quite fully.  The efficacy of the heat exchanger definitely isn't in doubt...The air coming out of the vents is *painfully* hot...so it would be nice to be able to switch it off properly.  Especially as the outlet for the main cabin heater is under the seat.  Gets a bit toasty after half an hour or so.

[beko1987]

RE Bike shops and cables, I needed a Bowden cable made up for a vacuum cleaner a few years ago and went to our local shop run by kids.

They did help me out as they did make cables. Sadly they could only crimp one end as the other on bicycles screws in somewhere, and the cable was far too thin... just about worked.

Measure it up and try a motorbike place maybe for thicker cables?

[Andyrew]

Regarding overspray. 

A stiff brush and  scrub may take some off but I think there's just too much on there. 

A quick fix is black tyre paint 

Or just get the tyres popped off and rotated round

 

[Zelandeth]

Speaking of paint overspray...

Really should have masked off the engine bay or waited until after painting the car to do things like the fan or cooling fan shroud...

Oops.

At least there's not much work to be replicated.  Top cowling has already been painted (again).

Was out and about running more errands today and it would have been rude to take anything else wouldn't it

Plus meant I was able to get a photo of TPA in slightly more period looking surroundings.  Wouldn't take a huge amount of photo manipulation to turn the clock back 30 years here.

Starting to actually get a better feel for the car now and can definitely vouch for it being at home darting around congested city streets, even though the initial launch is a little slower than most modern cars (actually very much like an old school automatic like my Saab which has a very long first gear) so requires you to plan just a little further ahead than in some cars if joining a busy roundabout or turning right out of junctions.

Granted, being tiny does help there too so it's a bit of a swings and roundabouts situation.

Have been a little more daring today, and can definitely vouch for this car having far more tenacious levels of grip than you'd thing when cornering.

[LightBulbFun]

Love the out and about photos  

that one is especially good, as you say, has a good old timey feel to it  

happy to hear she handles the city streets well, especially  given where I live!  (I recall TWC handled going through London quite well as well)

Does TPA also bog down like REV does if you go Wide open throttle to get moving quickly from a stand still?

(I found with REV you have to get her moving a little first before you can really open the throttle up)

have you managed to get the back end to step out of line yet?  

[dollywobbler]

Interesting. TPA still sounds very different to TWC, but then most of my driving in TWC is done in the hills, so 60mph is a bit more of a challenge.  TWC's heater is also very much not fierce. I've had it turned on most of the summer. Maybe still some mouse nests in there somewhere...

They are almost joyous around town. So easy! Twist and go. Only problem really is the crap over-the-shoulder vision allied to pretty poor mirrors.

 

[Zelandeth]

Sounds like your carb still needs attention, unsurprisingly. 

Biggest limitation on initial launch here is a not insignificant amount of drivetrain judder just making it uncomfortable (see earlier comments about engine or more likely gearbox mounts), though I reckon the rate of engagement of the clutch and the time taken to spin up what is quite a heavy flywheel for a small engine are likely the biggest limiting factors for launch.

I found with TPA that I was chasing my own tail for ages with the carb just being slightly off.  It was only once I took it off the car and subjected it to a thorough clean on the bench that the engine started behaving immeasurably better.  Given you know that she's had crud brought through from the tank and has run on stale fuel it's almost definite that the same sort of attention will be needed.  Especially if there's no fuel filter fitted.

[dollywobbler]

I do plan a proper mechanical overhaul for TWC next year. I can almost imagine myself actually doing it! Engine out, carb off for a proper clean, maybe even heads off. We'll see...

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

I do plan a proper mechanical overhaul for TWC next year. I can almost imagine myself actually doing it! Engine out, carb off for a proper clean, maybe even heads off. We'll see...

and a 650cc Piston and barrel set?   (well there's the 643cc engine and then the 660cc TR1 and TR2 engines and I think you can go even higher than that, I know fraser spoke about it in passing )

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Interesting. TPA still sounds very different to TWC, but then most of my driving in TWC is done in the hills, so 60mph is a bit more of a challenge.  TWC's heater is also very much not fierce. I've had it turned on most of the summer. Maybe still some mouse nests in there somewhere...

They are almost joyous around town. So easy! Twist and go. Only problem really is the crap over-the-shoulder vision allied to pretty poor mirrors.

 

The inability to look over your shoulder isn't ideal.  Especially with the lack of inertia reel seatbelt meaning you need to be pretty firmly strapped in.

I really need to get the camera out for another driving video now so you can see how she's behaving compared to TWC.

Question to DW, does TWC tend to judder at all when moving off from a standstill?  I know my clutch shoes are a bit scored (probably evidence of the previous life KPL's drivetrain), so not sure if that may have something to do with it.

This was definitely worse when she first started driving...so not sure if the belt breaking in may play a part.

 

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

The inability to look over your shoulder isn't ideal.  Especially with the lack of inertia reel seatbelt meaning you need to be pretty firmly strapped in.

I really need to get the camera out for another driving video now so you can see how she's behaving compared to TWC.

Question to DW, does TWC tend to judder at all when moving off from a standstill?  I know my clutch shoes are a bit scored (probably evidence of the previous life KPL's drivetrain), so not sure if that may have something to do with it.

This was definitely worse when she first started driving...so not sure if the belt breaking in may play a part.

 

 

I have been wondering if its the belt breaking in or something?

I have only driven REV for a total of about 10 miles so far and only up to about 15-20Mph

but because of the small space I had to run around in, there was a lot of starting and stopping etc and getting moving,, she felt pretty smooth, or at least it felt it to me! no squealing either, so ill take that as a good sign that the CVT side of things is in good health hopefully!

if you want (with Mrs6c/six cylinders permission of course since its their land!) your welcome to pop over to the FoD and take REV for a spin around in the FoD and take some comparison notes or what have you if it helps?  (assuming REV has not slowly leaked all her fuel away by now LOL)

I know the question was directed to DW specifically but the whole judder thing is something I have been wondering about myself, so I figured id give some input on it regardless

[dollywobbler]

6 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

The inability to look over your shoulder isn't ideal.  Especially with the lack of inertia reel seatbelt meaning you need to be pretty firmly strapped in.

I really need to get the camera out for another driving video now so you can see how she's behaving compared to TWC.

Question to DW, does TWC tend to judder at all when moving off from a standstill?  I know my clutch shoes are a bit scored (probably evidence of the previous life KPL's drivetrain), so not sure if that may have something to do with it.

This was definitely worse when she first started driving...so not sure if the belt breaking in may play a part.

 

Mostly she does not, but going wide open throttle from standstill can make her judder. Have found just waiting for the clutch to bite and then going wide open helps. Tends to be less juddery once  everything has warmed up. My first Autosolo run at the Retro Rides Weekender was pretty horrendous for judder.

[Zelandeth]

Thanks for that.

Sounds like identical but more pronounced behaviour then.  I don't seem to get it if I gently bring the revs up until we're just rolling then smoothly ramp the power up. 

Not going to worry too much about it at this stage.  I'll look at getting some fresh gearbox mounts fitted in due course and see if that helps.  That's the cheap and simple thing to try after all and I know they are looking a bit sorry for themselves.

 

[Zelandeth]

Had a spare hour this afternoon so figured it would be a good time to start tackling the snagging list on the Invacar.

The repainted engine cowl was reunited with the engine.

Being such a visible thing in the engine bay this immediately makes it look far less decrepit.

 

I then turned my attention to the slow puncture on the nearside rear wheel.  This has lost roughly 5psi per day ever since the tyres were fitted.  As such my suspicion was always that there was a leak from the rim rather than in the tyre itself.

Five minutes with the leak detector spray later, we have a winner.

Bubbling merrily from the bead right behind the larger balance weight.  There's another smaller leak I spotted just after taking this photo just out of frame.

I've faffed around fitting tyres at home before and have deemed it to be considerably more trouble than it's worth (until such time as I inevitably pick up a tyre fitting machine) so decided to entrust sorting this to Formula 1 over in Newport Pagnell.  My usual go-to for tyre stuff, only reason they didn't get the job of fitting these originally was that they literally wanted double the price for what were inferior tyres.

Suffice to say this being in the workshop caused a few scratched heads.

The gent who was working on the car for me couldn't have been more than 18 and was really enthusiastic which was nice to see.

Once the tyre was off it was obvious that no effort had been made to clean the rim up beforehand...bit disappointing given the tyres were fitted by a specialist not Kwik-Fit.  Five minutes with the wire wheel had things looking far healthier, and we flipped the tyre around (they're not sided) to hide my horrible overspray.  Was all going great...right up until this happened.

Gent doing the work was being careful and was doing everything by hand - that stud just decided it had had enough.  They're happy to cover the cost of sourcing replacement and fitting no questions asked.  So I'll have a dig later today (I still have the parts manual here waiting to be scanned because I'm bloody disorganised) to ascertain exactly what spec the studs are and will then get replacements ordered.  Hopefully they're straight from the Mini as those will be plentifully and inexpensively available.

I'll plan on replacing all of them as a matter of course now.  If one has failed without being abused in my time with the car there's no reason to believe the rest are in any better shape.  I had one fail on a car before (can't recall which one) and the very next time I had the wheel off I recall a second stud snapping...so they're all getting done.

Once they're done they're done...one less thing to worry about.

Just hope access isn't an issue...

[LightBulbFun]

love the shots of TPA in the workshop/garage

it looks so "silly", shame there not some fancy modern or something in the next bay over

as for the studs, looks like they might be mini items indeed as seen here I think https://autoshite.com/topic/33844-autoshites-official-for-salewanted-thread/page/86/?tab=comments#comment-1760174 (although the poster just says "studs for mini wheels" so the other end of the stud that doesn't go into the wheel might be different? )

I was wondering about the parts manual myself glad to hear that's not been forgotten  (Im quite eager to have a read of that, I didn't even know the AC Acedes Mk14A was a thing until I saw it in the list of Invalid vehicles it covers, I knew of the Mk14 and Mk15 but not of the Mk14A)

 

[Zelandeth]

The manual is far from forgotten.  It's literally sitting on top of my scanner.  I just need an evening or afternoon where I know I'll have a good couple of hours free to get it scanned in.  Just really want to get it done in one shot as that vastly reduces the odds of me messing things up.

[Zelandeth]

Well I can categorically state that the Model 70 does NOT use Mini wheel studs.  The Mini ones are splined and are knocked through from behind the hub.  These ones are threaded and screwed into the hub.

Parts manual is unhelpful.  As I kind of expected it simply lists "hub assy c/w wheel studs" and a stock number.  It doesn't go into any detail.

 

Not being certain of the stud type I wanted to confirm it before I splashed out £30 odd on a set of studs and wheel nuts (a few of mine are quite dog eared so I'd like to replace them to save hassle in future).  So back out to the garage.

It was immediately apparent that my plan to replace all the studs was wise when I got the wheel off.

Yep, a second one is visibly bent.  So I have to assume that someone has overtightened or otherwise abused these in the past.  They're all being changed.

A bit of investigation made is apparent that these weren't press through studs as everything was completely flush with the back of the hub, and the Mini studs have distinctive domed heads.

A bit of trial and error indeed confirmed that they would unscrew.  I managed to get three out without too much difficulty, but of course as is always the way, one had to be difficult.

Yep...this one which had prior evidence of having been cross threaded just stripped. 

Next trip out today will be to grab a tap and die kit so I can tap the stud a size smaller hopefully and get enough purchase to wind it out that way.

Then I need to figure out what the heck these are from.

I do note that the hubs have a plethora of tapped holes in, so do wonder if they were intended for multiple applications.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I despise wheel nuts with fixed studs...give me wheel bolts any day of the week.

[LightBulbFun]

 

3 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Then I need to figure out what the heck these are from.

 

hmm they are not from a Reliant of some kind are they?

i know the Reliants of the time also used similar setups

[Zelandeth]

8 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

hmm they are not from a Reliant of some kind are they?

i know the Reliants of the time also used similar setups

Sadly not, they seem to use the same splined studs as the Mini etc.

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Sadly not, they seem to use the same splined studs as the Mini etc.

Fiat 500/Fiat 126 maybe? (I think those have a different hole pattern, but maybe the use they same studs...)

[dollywobbler]

Brakes also cross reference to Triumph Herald. No idea what stud set-up they use.

[RayMK]

I had a Herald 1200 estate many moons ago. I remember replacing the studs but they were interference/force fit splined type.

Febi Bilstein does a vast range of wheel studs including many which have a threaded fixing. Unfortunately, they are listed against applications and have metric thread sizes rather than giving dimensions. Perhaps one of theirs could be found if yours have metric threads.  Alternatively, assuming you can't find a spare hub with salvageable studs for sale anywhere, could a local machine shop replicate yours for a modest sum?  Studs for normal vehicles seem to be in the £7-£12 range (each).