Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 19/04 - HVAC Preemptive Investigation...

[beko1987]

Grr bloody lockdown! I'd love to lick this again some time and it's as close as its ever been to me, hopefully you'll chew through the issues and get pottering about with it! 

Have you 'bought it' then or are you just the next stop along it's journey? 

[spartacus]

It's landed on its feet with you I think Zel. Good work.

[Daviemck2006]

I went backwards with Citroens, having a c5 2.2hdi, then a c5 2.0hdi, then a xantia activa, then a xantia 1.9td (an ex Zel car) so would I be tempted to go further backward to a bx? Probably lol

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

[strangeangel]

18 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Issue with the steering rack.  Not sure if it's a wear problem or if it's peeing LHM everywhere.

 

 

It's not as bad as that - it just has a split boot that needs replacing. Unusually for a BX it doesn't actually leak LHM from anywhere!

 

[Broadsword]

Looking forward to your progress with the BX. You are definitely the right custodian for it!

[Daviemck2006]

If the condition of the Xantia I bought from a third party who bought it from Zel is anything to go by this bx will be well sorted out. Although the third party was a renowned citroen enthusiast the mechanical condition of said xantia was brilliant, although she was cosmetically challenged. It did 20000 miles with me in a year with nothing more than one weld patch in a rear door shut and 2 oil changes and tyres. It was in need of a clutch, heater matrix, fuel pump and had a hydraulic leak when she went to meet her maker at around 250K, but was brilliant for the year I had it.

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

[Zelandeth]

11 hours ago, beko1987 said:

Grr bloody lockdown! I'd love to lick this again some time and it's as close as its ever been to me, hopefully you'll chew through the issues and get pottering about with it! 

Have you 'bought it' then or are you just the next stop along it's journey? 

...I think you probably know as well as I do at this point!

I think a lot of the long term outlook from my perspective will depend largely on what happens when I take her for an MOT.  My usual tester is thorough but fair, and in my experience is about as classic friendly as you could hope for (he used to run a V12 XJ-S in the past!), so I expect a realistic appraisal from him.

Once we're safely able to move around and mingle again you know you're always welcome to come and have a nosey at any of the fleet.

5 hours ago, strangeangel said:

 

It's not as bad as that - it just has a split boot that needs replacing. Unusually for a BX it doesn't actually leak LHM from anywhere!

 

Well that makes life a bit easier.  Hopefully we'll just need a new boot and a track rod end to get that resolved then.

-- -- --

Nothing huge to report today.  Just took the HT leads back off TPA and gave them a clean and wipe down with some silicone spray to help keep the water off.

While I was at it I made a spacer out of a couple of cable ties to keep the lead to the nearside cylinder and the king lead separate.  I'm sure I've got some actual spacers from back in my "grab anything not welded down from an old Saab in the scrap yard" days somewhere in the garage, so it'll be replaced with a proper one one day.

Really do need to actually order a new distributor cap and rotor arm already!

The initial stages of apprehension regarding the imminent arrival of the BX have pretty much passed now and I'm just looking forward to getting to see it.  The Jag and Invacar have been the only two cars I've ever picked up without at least some degree of prior involvement in, and I've really enjoyed the whole getting to learn my way around something new process.

Plus, c'mon it's a classic Citroen...what's not to love?  I've always fancied a BX (ever since a neighbour back when I was about five used to take us out quite regularly in his almost dayglow red GTi version...with black and white striped interior), but is just a car I've never had a chance at.  It would always have to be an early one though ever since I saw one at a show with the Series 1 interior.  Plus I've always thought that I'd rather have a smaller engined one really...just seems that lazy wafting is more what a BX is about rather than blasting around being a hooligan.  That's what the Activa is all about.  Nearly four years in and the shove in the back when she comes on boost still hasn't stopped making me grin.  It's bloody addictive and is a terribly bad influence.

So this one is pretty much exactly what I'd have been looking for if I had actually been looking for one!

[Zelandeth]

Right, let's try this again.  I made the mistake of trying to tag someone when I wrote this post earlier on my phone and then proceeded to wind up unable to type or delete anything further.

Yesterday afternoon I had a bash at sorting out the ball joints which there was some play in, the worst of which was the one between the steering knuckle and the drag link.  Didn't take much work to find that!

It turned out though that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the ball joint...The nut just hadn't been tightened up properly, the clonk was the taper moving against the seat rather than actual play in the joint.  I got at least an additional two or three turns on it...Then surprise surprise, there was no play in there any more.  Having a closer look revealed that they were all like that with the exception of the one I'd already changed.  So yeah...If you haven't changed any of them yet @dollywobbler, you might want to check the steering ball joints on TWC are all properly tightened down.

-- -- --

Back to today - I wanted to finish up the work on the brakes.  This meant making the adjustment to the brake yoke assembly to account for the different rest position on the new master cylinder.  The easiest solution to this I'd figured was to drill a new hole in the yoke slightly further back, and slightly further up to provide a little additional mechanical advantage to account for the fact that the new master cylinder has a slightly wider bore (which in theory would make the brakes heavier to operate), though the other reason for moving upward slightly was to ensure that I stay well clear of the original pivot point, the last thing I wanted was to have a drill slip cause damage to that - plus one of my goals with pretty much any of the improvements or modifications I've been doing should all be things which can be reversed in the future should I/any future owners want to.  A blob of weld and a bit of paint will be all that's needed to get rid of this hole if someone was so inclined.

Before I could do that though I needed to get the yoke detached from the car (as the support frame is in the way of where I'd be wanting to drill).  You don't actually need to remove the steering tie rod, indicator wiring etc - just these two bolts (one of which required a LOT of effort to initially crack off).

With these out there's enough reach on the wiring and flex in the steering tie rod ball joints to rest the yoke against the seat to work on it.

I

I actually did this the right way for a change, using a centre punch, small pilot drill and progressively drilling out to 8mm (which is pretty much spot on what the original hole was measured at).

Tidying up from doing this and getting ready to reassemble things, I then dropped the pin from the clevis and lost it. 

Or rather I *thought* I had dropped the pin and lost it.

Can you see it?

How about now I've turned the flash on?

You absolute bleeping pain...I wasted the best part of half an hour hunting for that thing...which I had of course actually put back exactly where I meant to, right next to where I was working.

On the plus side, while crawling around on my hands and knees I *did* find the similar pin which I lost from the gear linkage back when I did the engine swap!

So that's a bonus, I'll get that cleaned up and refitted next time I've got the rear service hatch out.

Now I had fully expected getting things back together to be a pain.  Having moved the pin forward in the yoke meant that there was no longer clearance to get it into the hole it needed to go into.  Eventually a combination of a bit of levering to flex the yoke to one side and loosening the master cylinder off got it in there.  It was a bit of a faff, but I knew that going in.  This isn't something that you're going to need to remove all that often (hopefully!) so I'm not too bothered that it's a bit fiddly.

With things reassembled I was rewarded by a much more reasonable feeling brake, and after another thorough bleeding session (turns out there was still a lot of air trapped in the front circuit) and we were rewarded with this amount of travel.

Brakes fully released:

Brakes firmly applied:

That looks (and feels) about perfect to me.  I can get about another 3/4" if I really hang on it.

I think we're now at the point where I need to find out if this whole messing around has been a gigantic waste of time or if my brakes still work (I'd not complain if they're better too!).

I need to run a couple of errands tomorrow, if it's not tipping it down with rain I will probably treat that as my test run. 

So...What's been done since she was last out?

[] Distributor condenser remotely mounted and remote start switch fitted.  Can't 100% remember if that was actually done before or after I started pulling things to bits now!

[] All brakes cleaned, shoes de-glazed and adjusted.

[] Offside rear wheel cylinder replaced (due to seized bleed nipple).

[] Split circuit brake master cylinder (Triumph Spitfire) fitted, requiring slight modification of yoke.

[] Rear brake flexible lines replaced.

[] Dayco HP2020 CVT belt fitted.

[] Driver's seat frame bolted to rear runner to stop it wobbling.

[] Got rid of a few kg of flashband from the rear service hatch. 

[] Sealed the bungs around both the heater/choke control cables and gear linkage.

[] Cylinder head temperature gauge installed.

[] Front mud guard removed and straightened out (still need to re-fit that).

Aside from a bit of miscellaneous wiring tidying I think that's everything...Hopefully I've not made things worse than they started!

Clear a few bits and pieces out of the way then we should be all set for a test drive tomorrow.

Determined to get this sorted out before I get...sidetracked...by the arrival of another vehicle later in the week.

[LightBulbFun]

happy to see things progressing relatively smoothly on this front

I hope it works well! and I look forward to seeing how it does on the open road (I hope someone can film the emergency stop test that would be interesting to see!)

it looks like a relatively easy thing to do, so I can defo see myself applying such an upgrade to REV at some point in the future just for piece of mind if it works well for you

 

[Zelandeth]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I hope it works well! and I look forward to seeing how it does on the open road (I hope someone can film the emergency stop test that would be interesting to see!)

it looks like a relatively easy thing to do...

 

I really need to figure out a workable video recording solution in TPA.  Everything I've tried so far has resulted in video that is utterly unstable due to the levels of camera shake.  Reckon the way forward is probably going to be the Not-A-Go-Pro using the head mount, so you essentially see whatever I'm looking at.  Though it'll make you motion sick instead probably and I'll need to mess around splicing two streams together as the built in mic on it is hilariously bad.

Hoping that this works!  It's been a pretty painless job all told, so long as it works!  Only thing which will be left as part of the job really will be to fit a remote fluid reservoir and a fluid level warning light.  Could pay £££s for a specialist kit car one...or just buy a Riva one from Lada for £6.

Which will do the job precisely as well.  Plus using a few bits of Lada feels like I'm staying in some small way at least close to my motoring roots.

Functionally the existing reservoir is fine, just the angle being off will bug me, and I want to incorporate a level warning float anyway...and when I can buy the whole lot for £10 delivered it's not worth faffing about with the current one.  Still have plenty of EPDM hose from when I re-piped the reservoir on the Jag.

[dollywobbler]

Bear in mind with a head mount that the camera really needs to be at eye level or it'll just be a load of the panel right in front of your head. 

Action cameras are the only way I've found to get steady in-car footage, though the camera shake from mobiles does give the speed a very real feel of terror!

[Zelandeth]

Before I could conduct a test drive I had a couple of minor jobs to finish.  Reattaching the front mud guard and draining off a bit of brake fluid as the pressure bleeder as usual left the reservoir too full.

Job done.

Mud guard is still a bit scruffy but given the location I think it's absolutely fine.

Also found an ideal stowage location for my cover prop!

So on to the test drive.  Well, after ten minutes of car Tetris anyway.  Slightly concerned by whatever the heck this is under the Jag.

Nothing has visibly dropped, though given the capacity of most of the fluids on this thing that doesn't mean much!

Answers on a post card as to what that is?

I have proven that there's ample room to park the BX behind the Xantia.

If the Jag and Xantia can fit there, Xantia and a BX should have room to spare.

We ended up with almost exactly 20 miles covered.

Which I think gives the game away that the test was successful as otherwise I'd have turned around pretty much immediately and headed back to base.

Instead we got all the errands run without incident.

Observations:

Really wish I'd done this sooner.  The difference in braking performance really is night and day.  Previously you had a degree of free travel followed by an inch or so of very firm travel where all braking effort took place. 

Now there's more travel - but delivering progressive braking throughout.  It used to be just about possible to lock a wheel if you absolutely threw your weight on the bars, but it took a lot of effort.  Now I'd say the effort required to deliver that amount of braking force is on par with any other car that doesn't have ABS.  The overall feel of the brakes is *massively* more confidence inspiring.

Regarding locking up the wheels that was something I was most concerned about, so one of the first things I did was find a deserted bit of industrial estate and do a bunch of 30mph emergency stop tests.  She isn't any more prone to locking up than anything else without ABS, and there doesn't seem to be any tendency for the front to lock up overly easily.  I think the forward weight shift under heavy braking helps there.  I wasn't able to detect any tendency for control to be compromised at all.

Limited to 50mph at the moment while the new belt is run in, but braking down from that sort of speed for a roundabout/junction is no more effort than in the Jag or van.  The brakes honestly feel pretty decent now.

Handbrake is fully applied seven clicks out it seems, and is quite capable of stopping the car, no slower than in any other car really.

Obviously she's not been worked particularly hard given I've got to obey a 50mph speed limit for the first 50 miles of the life of the new belt, but I was pleased at the cylinder head temperatures we were seeing.  Bumbling around at low speeds it sits pretty solidly at about 125C.

Highest I saw on a long uphill stretch was 165C.  Perfectly reasonable numbers, and it seems to be pretty stable.

Interesting to see that - I'm assuming because it's bristling with cooling fins - that this engine doesn't seem to suffer the sort of heat soak issues I'm used to seeing with water cooled engines.  The Xantia is particularly bad for that, the temperature on that if you come back to start it up after a brief stop can be quite alarming.  This just seems to immediately start dropping in temperature from the moment the engine stops.  Which being a thermocouple gauge you can actually see as it's self-powered, so doesn't shut off with the ignition.

Speaking of confidence inspiring...I honestly had no idea how much the seat was moving around before!  That actually staying put really does make the handling feel far less wayward, as I'm not subjected to an inch or two of what feels like oversteer every time I change direction.  It was also apparently a source of several rattles.

I can't say I noticed a huge difference in the steering, though it *might* be slightly more stable in a straight line.  Hard to say how much of that is just placebo effect though.

Brake fluid level reassuringly hasn't moved at all during the journey.

Glad that fluid is staying where it belongs!

On the subject of fluids, it looks like I might have also been successful in sorting the gearbox oil leak.  Bit hard to tell because of historic deposits, but this area would normally be visibly wet after a run, rather than just "a bit oily."  The upper part in particular you could usually see where it was running down from the top cover plate join.

I will obviously monitor that to make sure the oil continues to stay where it belongs.

While I'm still treating it gently at the moment I can't say I can tell any difference so far between the HP2020 belt and the NOS actual Invacar one which came off.  Will keep you up to date on that.

Here's a brief snippet from the first few minutes of the run out.  This was done by attaching the phone to the rear view mirror with rubber bands...better than the actual proper phone mount, but still horribly shaky.  Plus it meant the mirror wouldn't stay put.   That was the main reason I called time on video and pulled over to stop it, I wanted my mirror to behave given I was going to be doing a lot of stops/starts for a few minutes.

It's early days but the initial impressions are that these improvements have been precisely that.  The braking performance improvement in particular and having a seat that stays put both make a *huge* difference in the overall driving experience.  

Can't say I notice any real difference in the noise levels having pulled the flashband off the service hatch.  Definitely not worth the few kilograms of extra weight for all the difference it was making.

Today also gave me the opportunity to do something I'd meant to for ages... actually get a photo of all of the cars together in one shot.

They're all filthy...but better than nothing!

Of course in two days this group will be out of date and I'll need to get an updated one!

Given there's been quite a bit of work done there it feels quite good to actually have tangible improvements coming out of it.

[LightBulbFun]

50 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Before I could conduct a test drive I had a couple of minor jobs to finish.  Reattaching the front mud guard and draining off a bit of brake fluid as the pressure bleeder as usual left the reservoir too full.

Job done.

Mud guard is still a bit scruffy but given the location I think it's absolutely fine.

Also found an ideal stowage location for my cover prop!

So on to the test drive.  Well, after ten minutes of car Tetris anyway.  Slightly concerned by whatever the heck this is under the Jag.

Nothing has visibly dropped, though given the capacity of most of the fluids on this thing that doesn't mean much!

Answers on a post card as to what that is?

I have proven that there's ample room to park the BX behind the Xantia.

If the Jag and Xantia can fit there, Xantia and a BX should have room to spare.

We ended up with almost exactly 20 miles covered.

Which I think gives the game away that the test was successful as otherwise I'd have turned around pretty much immediately and headed back to base.

Instead we got all the errands run without incident.

Observations:

Really wish I'd done this sooner.  The difference in braking performance really is night and day.  Previously you had a degree of free travel followed by an inch or so of very firm travel where all braking effort took place. 

Now there's more travel - but delivering progressive braking throughout.  It used to be just about possible to lock a wheel if you absolutely threw your weight on the bars, but it took a lot of effort.  Now I'd say the effort required to deliver that amount of braking force is on par with any other car that doesn't have ABS.  The overall feel of the brakes is *massively* more confidence inspiring.

Regarding locking up the wheels that was something I was most concerned about, so one of the first things I did was find a deserted bit of industrial estate and do a bunch of 30mph emergency stop tests.  She isn't any more prone to locking up than anything else without ABS, and there doesn't seem to be any tendency for the front to lock up overly easily.  I think the forward weight shift under heavy braking helps there.  I wasn't able to detect any tendency for control to be compromised at all.

Limited to 50mph at the moment while the new belt is run in, but braking down from that sort of speed for a roundabout/junction is no more effort than in the Jag or van.  The brakes honestly feel pretty decent now.

Handbrake is fully applied seven clicks out it seems, and is quite capable of stopping the car, no slower than in any other car really.

Obviously she's not been worked particularly hard given I've got to obey a 50mph speed limit for the first 50 miles of the life of the new belt, but I was pleased at the cylinder head temperatures we were seeing.  Bumbling around at low speeds it sits pretty solidly at about 125C.

Highest I saw on a long uphill stretch was 165C.  Perfectly reasonable numbers, and it seems to be pretty stable.

Interesting to see that - I'm assuming because it's bristling with cooling fins - that this engine doesn't seem to suffer the sort of heat soak issues I'm used to seeing with water cooled engines.  The Xantia is particularly bad for that, the temperature on that if you come back to start it up after a brief stop can be quite alarming.  This just seems to immediately start dropping in temperature from the moment the engine stops.  Which being a thermocouple gauge you can actually see as it's self-powered, so doesn't shut off with the ignition.

Speaking of confidence inspiring...I honestly had no idea how much the seat was moving around before!  That actually staying put really does make the handling feel far less wayward, as I'm not subjected to an inch or two of what feels like oversteer every time I change direction.  It was also apparently a source of several rattles.

I can't say I noticed a huge difference in the steering, though it *might* be slightly more stable in a straight line.  Hard to say how much of that is just placebo effect though.

Brake fluid level reassuringly hasn't moved at all during the journey.

Glad that fluid is staying where it belongs!

On the subject of fluids, it looks like I might have also been successful in sorting the gearbox oil leak.  Bit hard to tell because of historic deposits, but this area would normally be visibly wet after a run, rather than just "a bit oily."  The upper part in particular you could usually see where it was running down from the top cover plate join.

I will obviously monitor that to make sure the oil continues to stay where it belongs.

While I'm still treating it gently at the moment I can't say I can tell any difference so far between the HP2020 belt and the NOS actual Invacar one which came off.  Will keep you up to date on that.

Here's a brief snippet from the first few minutes of the run out.  This was done by attaching the phone to the rear view mirror with rubber bands...better than the actual proper phone mount, but still horribly shaky.  Plus it meant the mirror wouldn't stay put.   That was the main reason I called time on video and pulled over to stop it, I wanted my mirror to behave given I was going to be doing a lot of stops/starts for a few minutes.

It's early days but the initial impressions are that these improvements have been precisely that.  The braking performance improvement in particular and having a seat that stays put both make a *huge* difference in the overall driving experience.  

Can't say I notice any real difference in the noise levels having pulled the flashband off the service hatch.  Definitely not worth the few kilograms of extra weight for all the difference it was making.

Today also gave me the opportunity to do something I'd meant to for ages... actually get a photo of all of the cars together in one shot.

They're all filthy...but better than nothing!

Of course in two days this group will be out of date and I'll need to get an updated one!

Given there's been quite a bit of work done there it feels quite good to actually have tangible improvements coming out of it.

Oh yay! very happy to hear that not only does it all work, that theres also a noticeable improvement and that the HP2020 belt seems to be working well 

I do wonder what exactly is responsible for the most improvement, was it the De-glazing, or the upgrading of the brake master cylinder to a high quality one or the fact its a Dual circuit one

(also have to wonder what caused the brake shoes to glaze over like that, did you do the front brake shoes as well?)

but yeah very happy to hear it all works well, and glad to hear the front wheel locking up is not something to be worried about, it was something I wondered about as friends of mine had expressed such concerns to me in the past

but I had a feeling the forward weight transfer during a harsh stop would help to mitigate that, glad to see I was on the right track!

[Zelandeth]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Oh yay! very happy to hear that not only does it all work, that theres also a noticeable improvement and that the HP2020 belt seems to be working well 

I do wonder what exactly is responsible for the most improvement, was it the De-glazing, or the upgrading of the brake master cylinder to a high quality one or the fact its a Dual circuit one

(also have to wonder what caused the brake shoes to glaze over like that, did you do the front brake shoes as well?)

but yeah very happy to hear it all works well, and glad to hear the front wheel locking up is not something to be worried about, it was something I wondered about as friends of mine had expressed such concerns to me in the past

but I had a feeling the forward weight transfer during a harsh stop would help to mitigate that, glad to see I was on the right track!

There in theory shouldn't be any particular bias towards either end as far as braking is concerned as the master cylinder applies the same *pressure* to each circuit, so the difference in volume shouldn't make a huge difference.

You can get a lot of braking effort before locking up anyway - not least because the car is so light.

As for the glazing?  Not sure.  Most likely candidate is contamination of the shoes.  I did clean them before they were fitted, but as with a huge chunk of my spares they hadn't been stored well.  It wouldn't hurt to just get a set of actually new shoes fitted.

The front one wasn't too bad, though it's worth noting that the front brake had shoes in when I got TPA...so all I've done to that brake was replace the form flexible line, grease the pivots and adjust it.  That one just behaved perfectly from the very start.

It's hard to say what makes the biggest difference!  Hypothetically being dual circuit shouldn't make any difference to braking performance. 

The new cylinder does have a slightly larger bore (17.8mm from memory), which should actually make the pedal heavier to operate (I'm just using the term pedal here as it saves confusion) - one of the reasons I chose to alter the operating yoke rather than trying to find a longer pushrod.  As that should increase the mechanical advantage thanks to the laws of physics by moving the working point nearer to the fulcrum.

I don't recall the brakes in TWC feeling that different to in TPA (though I always had a bit more dear travel) once I'd sorted them.  When I actually did briefly drive TWC though I was still dealing with a sticky conical seal in my master cylinder so her brakes were decidedly sketchy at the time. 

Between me having cleaned and greased all the pivot points, adjusted clearance on all three wheels, cleaning all the shoes, *thoroughly* bleeding the system (remember I'd not been able to fully bleed the offside rear before), replacing the flexible lines, modifying the brake operation yoke AND fitting the new master cylinder... it's impossible to say for certain what did what.

All I know is that it really has transformed the feel of the car.  While she's always been fun to drive the brakes have just never really inspired huge confidence as they've always felt quite wooden.  Now she's quite capable of standing on her nose if asked, that really does help reduce stress levels significantly.  Combined with the seat actually holding you in place, she really does feel like a different car.

Need to get another 30 miles under her wheels so I can drive normally again!  It's astonishing how easy you need to take it to keep her under 50 on any open road.  Plus it doesn't make you too popular with the locals.

When TPA arrived here she was showing 11353 miles on the clock, so we're 31 miles from hitting the big 1K which feels like a decent milestone.  Will be doing a change of all the oils, oil filter, drop and clean the oil pickup strainer,  finally actually changing the distributor cap and rotor arm, checking and regapping the plugs if needed, going over all the grease points etc at that point.

Do hope that I can get her to at least some form of show or event this year, even if it's just something where a bunch of classic enthusiasts get together and have a convoy, parade of something like that without leaving our cars. 

Feel bad for the Jag there too, have had her for over a year now but aside from one rained-off breakfast meet up haven't been able to get that to anything.

[somewhatfoolish]

Need to print off a 'Running in - please pass' sign for maximum retro-shite points.

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Need to print off a 'Running in - please pass' sign for maximum retro-shite points.

Model 70's did actually have a running in sticker, although it was more worded as a warning/instruction to the user than something for other drivers!

this is the type TPA most likely would have had when new (as seen on GPG721K)

there was also this clear style seen on later Model 70's (as seen on XEV88S/VES108S)

 

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Need to get another 30 miles under her wheels so I can drive normally again!  It's astonishing how easy you need to take it to keep her under 50 on any open road.  Plus it doesn't make you too popular with the locals.

When TPA arrived here she was showing 11353 miles on the clock, so we're 31 miles from hitting the big 1K which feels like a decent milestone.  Will be doing a change of all the oils, oil filter, drop and clean the oil pickup strainer,  finally actually changing the distributor cap and rotor arm, checking and regapping the plugs if needed, going over all the grease points etc at that point.

 

I find it oddly fitting that her new belt will full be broken in as she hits the 1K milestone, maybe see if you can plan it so after stopping to photo the milestone, you can then do a recorded/timed 0-60 run?

[Zelandeth]

Ah yes...this would be why I didn't just replace the cap and rotor arm originally.  They're sods to get.

Only place I can find with a cap in stock want €20 to ship to the UK.  Mister Auto show the rotor arm in stock...but their ordering system appears to be borked at the moment and it won't actually let me place an order.

Time to get in touch with the Steyr-Haflinger guys directly again methinks, hopefully they'll have the service items like this in stock on the shelf.

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Ah yes...this would be why I didn't just replace the cap and rotor arm originally.  They're sods to get.

Only place I can find with a cap in stock want €20 to ship to the UK.  Mister Auto show the rotor arm in stock...but their ordering system appears to be borked at the moment and it won't actually let me place an order.

Time to get in touch with the Steyr-Haflinger guys directly again methinks, hopefully they'll have the service items like this in stock on the shelf.

Dizzy cap is shared with the DAF33 if its any help! (not sure about the Rotor arm however)

heres a handy cross reference of sorts of the the bosch part numbers they fly under as well

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bosch/1185296

(Bosh 1235522119 looks to be another thats not listed there)

 

otherwise

these are the guys are who you want for engine bits

https://www.haflingertechnik.com/

and if you want go fast engine bits these are the guys (they do own a Model 70 so they should know what your on about!)

https://prokschi.at/

[Zelandeth]

That was easy...All the service items ordered in one hit from Prokschi. 

Haflinger Technik sadly lose points for not having any form of web shop sadly or I'd just as happily have used them and probably saved a packet on shipping.  However I'm juggling enough things right now without needing to go back and forth over email to confirm availability, get prices etc. 

Let's see how many months this package takes to arrive...

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

That was easy...All the service items ordered in one hit from Prokschi. 

Haflinger Technik sadly lose points for not having any form of web shop sadly or I'd just as happily have used them and probably saved a packet on shipping.  However I'm juggling enough things right now without needing to go back and forth over email to confirm availability, get prices etc. 

Let's see how many months this package takes to arrive...

Yeah I noticed that sadly

im curious which Dizzy cap did you go for, they list clear and black ones (both under the same PN)

https://prokschi.at/puch-500-500-s-from-1968-1973/electrical-parts/distributor-cap.html

https://prokschi.at/puch-500-500-s-from-1968-1973/electrical-parts/distributor-cap-transparent-for-aluminum-and-cast-iron-distribution.html

but I have never seen a Clear Dizzy cap before, so I wonder what the deal is there, sounds like a neat thing tho, being able to watch the rotor arm wiz round

(but is it just something just meant for testing and tuning like a colour-tune spark plug or is it a genuine permeant item so to speak?)

[Zelandeth]

I imagine the clear ones would be made of acrylic rather than phenolic resin (bakelite) that they usually use.  Tend to think that would be more prone to degrading over time in the rather harsh environment that is an engine bay.

Just went with the black one as I'm not trying to introduce bling to the engine bay any more than I can avoid.

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

I imagine the clear ones would be made of acrylic rather than phenolic resin (bakelite) that they usually use.  Tend to think that would be more prone to degrading over time in the rather harsh environment that is an engine bay.

Just went with the black one as I'm not trying to introduce bling to the engine bay any more than I can avoid.

Yeah that what I was wondering, hence my comment about if it was just made for testing/tuning/diagnostic purposes or not  

for me its not the bling factor, I just find it neat seeing transparent versions of normally opaque things/seeing into things you cant normally to see into (especially if they can seen still working/in operation), why do you think I own a half coated fluorescent tube

[Zelandeth]

There seem to be a few listings for them in clear form for the Steyr Puch engined Fiats, so might just be one of those oddities.  Like the OEM ones for the Jag being violently bright blue so they look like something from the Halfords £1 bargain bin.

Can't see from a tuning perspective anything useful they'd show you maybe other than being able to confirm if there was/not excessive sparking at the points... though that's nothing you can't do carefully with a screwdriver.

[dollywobbler]

Haflinger Technik do respond well to emails as a general rule.

 

TPA sounds really nice out on the road - far better than TWC. I've now actually measured the pulley gap, and it's spot on, so you'd hope a belt with about 1000 miles on it and new pulleys would give similar performance. But, I do think the brakes were dragging more than I realised, so hopefully that'll make a difference.

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

Haflinger Technik do respond well to emails as a general rule.

 

TPA sounds really nice out on the road - far better than TWC. I've now actually measured the pulley gap, and it's spot on, so you'd hope a belt with about 1000 miles on it and new pulleys would give similar performance. But, I do think the brakes were dragging more than I realised, so hopefully that'll make a difference.

I really do wonder what exactly is causing the performance discrepancy between the 2, its a shame there are not More Model 70's avliable to test drive on the Open road, it would be interesting to chart them out and figure out whats actually average for a Model 70  

 

one thing im curious about on TWC and I think was mentioned in the past about when you first got her but behind the hub, on the drive shaft? theres something that looks like its been scraping, was it ever figured out what that was about?

 

[Zelandeth]

22 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I really do wonder what exactly is causing the performance discrepancy between the 2, its a shame there are not More Model 70's avliable to test drive on the Open road, it would be interesting to chart them out and figure out whats actually average for a Model 70  

 

one thing im curious about on TWC and I think was mentioned in the past about when you first got her but behind the hub, on the drive shaft? theres something that looks like its been scraping, was it ever figured out what that was about?

 

TPA is exactly the same.  I think there's just a very tight gap between the hub and surrounding metalwork so anything getting in there causes it to get scratched up.  Pretty sure I remember seeing similar witness marks on KPL as well.

[strangeangel]

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, strangeangel said:

Thanks for the update!

Much excitement now to get my hands dirty and start sorting things out. 

Of course having been through several of my boxes of bits of Citroen, I've got enough miscellaneous parts to make half an engine...but can I find an ignition amplifier?  Not a chance!

Of course the weather forecast is now showing solid rain all the way through to Saturday lunchtime which is less than ideal!

[worldofceri]

[Zelandeth]

4 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Haflinger Technik do respond well to emails as a general rule.

 

TPA sounds really nice out on the road - far better than TWC. I've now actually measured the pulley gap, and it's spot on, so you'd hope a belt with about 1000 miles on it and new pulleys would give similar performance. But, I do think the brakes were dragging more than I realised, so hopefully that'll make a difference.

It's tricky to say what the differences are!  I do wonder acceleration wise if the slightly larger rolling radius of the 12" wheels over the 10" ones might have an effect.  Sometimes though you do just find two engines which notionally should be identical which do just behave noticeably different for no readily explicable reason.  It's also hard to really judge things like that over a video.  One day in the future we may have an opportunity to drive the two back to back to each make our own observations.

Final two instruments are now on the way for the dash pod.  I wasn't going to bother about this until next month, but the voltmeter ended up going for the grand sum of £3.20 so I was able to get both of them for less than £25 - which is less than most of the older clocks I'd been seen were selling for alone.  At least once they're all fitted they will all match reasonably well with the pointers being the same colour,  and nothing will look stupid and modern like the plastic tat which I'd previously had in place.  That will be really nice to have finished as it's the last really obvious thing which makes the interior look unfinished at the moment. 

Voltmeter on two cars recently has saved me from getting into bother when I had issues with the charging system (which didn't bring on the light on the dash!), so I've come to consider it an essential instrument nowadays!  Clock is just something which the absence of really irritates me, even though I know it's far from mission critical.  One day I might consider swapping it out for oil pressure...but plumbing that in will be a pain so that's a possibility for somewhere down the line.  Not worrying about it for now.