Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 19/04 - HVAC Preemptive Investigation...

[MorrisItalSLX]

Definitely time to break out the paving slabs.

[LightBulbFun]

I think if we continue coming up with such excellent ideas im pretty sure Zels housemates are going to get an internet restraining order put in place 

 

have to say the Dip stick leaking is a new one to me, but if that aint autoshite/"Little British car" then I dont know what is

 

the Lada sounds like one of those cars that has no right to be cruising at 70Mph but yet will happily do so (I wonder what it would do flat out or is it gearing limited?)

 

BTW im curious whats that 0.5W Neon indicator looking thing inside of the Xantia for?

 

[Zelandeth]

I think if we continue coming up with such excellent ideas im pretty sure Zels housemates are going to get an internet restraining order put in place 

 

have to say the Dip stick leaking is a new one to me, but if that aint autoshite/"Little British car" then I dont know what is

 

the Lada sounds like one of those cars that has no right to be cruising at 70Mph but yet will happily do so (I wonder what it would do flat out or is it gearing limited?)

 

BTW im curious whats that 0.5W Neon indicator looking thing inside of the Xantia for?

 

 

It's the level indicator for the LHM reservoir.  The little orange disc should sit between the two red lines with the suspension set to the service high position.  I'll snap a proper shot of it later today when I do the weekly fluid checks.

 

I reckon the Lada will run out of puff around 85/90, though I've never felt the need to actually find out where it tops out.  Max speed by the spec sheets is 93 if I remember rightly.  Brick wall aerodynamics being the major factor there - though realistically you don't want to be venturing too far north of 80 for any real time as it's quite low geared, so 70 is already around 4000rpm - and between the noise from the wind, engine, diff, gearbox and the thousand bits of interior rattling and creaking, it's more your ears that limit cruising speed than what the car will actually do I think.

 

It is one of those cars that oddly is actually happier at 70 than 60 though.

[Fumbler]

The 2107's top speed is around 160 km/h as seen in some top speed Russian highway videos, just for reference. Whether they are overreading or not is another matter entirely.

[LightBulbFun]

is that what Zels one is?

 

I need a cross reference of those Numbers to which Lada they go with LOL

 

have to say 97-100Mph sounds surprisingly decent especially considering IIRC an MGB runs out of puff around about then, and thats a 2 seater sports car with a 1.8 B series...

[Zelandeth]

According to my satnav the speedo in the Lada is actually one of the more accurate I've had.

 

Worst by a country mile were the ones in the Skoda Estelles - the most recent of which read well over 10mph high at 70mph - showing 75mph on the speedometer I was still being overtaken by coaches which I know are limited to 100kph...

 

The most amusing piece of instrumentation on the Lada by a country mile is the fuel gauge as it very much gives a moving average when in motion.  There's no damping on the gauge nor any baffles in the tank, so it wobbles around all over the place.

[Fumbler]

is that what Zels one is?

 

I need a cross reference of those Numbers to which Lada they go with LOL

 

have to say 97-100Mph sounds surprisingly decent especially considering IIRC an MGB runs out of puff around about then, and thats a 2 seater sports car with a 1.8 B series...

I go by the Russian model codes. Zel's is a VAZ-2104 and the saloon is the VAZ-2105. On export as well we occasionly god some 2107s and 2106s

 

 

What is a joke on Lada dashboards is the econogauge and the tachometer on the 2107 and 2106. They bounce around more than the fuel needle!

 

You can switch out the camshafts in the engines for a racing one, as A1 Spares had them in stock side by side. Apparently they gave some more modern sports a run for their money!

[Zelandeth]

The 2107 is essentially to the Riva what the Wolsey version of the Allegro was. You got a fancy grill, better seats and some more instrumentation.

 

2104 is the Riva Estate - 21047 specifically denotes the later export version with the cat etc.

 

I can't remember what the number of the Canadian/Scandinavian version was which shipped with the 1.7i engine we only saw here in the 95-98 Nivas (2121). That's what my fuel tank and fuel pump came from - expensive bits, but made the installation far easier!

[LightBulbFun]

thats another thing iv been wondering about on the invacar

 

when they moved to 10 inch wheels did they have to change the speedo, and is that why later model 70s have bigger speedos?

 

(I know on a normal car if you change the wheel size it throws your speedo out, but I know the invacar is a CVT setup and iv heard people say on CVTs you dont need to worry about the speedo)

 

 

I go by the Russian model codes. Zel's is a VAZ-2104 and the saloon is the VAZ-2105. On export as well we occasionly god some 2107s and 2106s

 

 

What is a joke on Lada dashboards is the econogauge and the tachometer on the 2107 and 2106. They bounce around more than the fuel needle!

 

You can switch out the camshafts in the engines for a racing one, as A1 Spares had them in stock side by side. Apparently they gave some more modern sports a run for their money!

 

I do remember seeing that under the bonnet of Zels Lada which I found pretty cool but I couldn't recall the exact number

 

if Zels is the 2104 and the Saloons are 2105, then whats the 2107 and 2106s? are they the last of Fiat 124 based Ladas?

[Tadhg Tiogar]

....You can switch out the camshafts in the engines for a racing one, as A1 Spares had them in stock side by side. Apparently they gave some more modern sports a run for their money!

...and that's one of a number of available mods, if this Hungarian specialist is anything to go by!

[Zelandeth]

Here's a cheat sheet for the models we officially had in the UK

 

I believe the overall rolling diameter of the 10/12" wheels on the Invacar are the same. The 12" ones just have lower profile tyres.

[Fumbler]

thats another thing iv been wondering about on the invacar

 

when they moved to 10 inch wheels did they have to change the speedo, and is that why later model 70s have bigger speedos?

 

(I know on a normal car if you change the wheel size it throws your speedo out, but I know the invacar is a CVT setup and iv heard people say on CVTs you dont need to worry about the speedo)

 

 

 

I do remember seeing that under the bonnet of Zels Lada which I found pretty cool but I couldn't recall the exact number

 

if Zels is the 2104 and the Saloons are 2105, then whats the 2107 and 2106s? are they the last of Fiat 124 based Ladas?

The 2107 is executive 2105, with larger chrome grille and a bonnet to match. It also has some other parts (think some horses were also added). The 2106 was the executive 2103 and 2101, bearing more Fiat resemblence with round headlamps, Fiat-esque tailights and general Fiatness. Also has a nicer interior colour choice. the 2101 and 2102 were the original Ladas from the Fiat models. Search up each model number in Google images for better viewing

[Zelandeth]

The best thing about the 2107 of course was that it was available with a truly violently red interior.

 

I had the opportunity to buy one with that a few years ago and still kick myself for not getting it.

[LightBulbFun]

thats very interesting, and that link from Zel has been fun to flick through

 

also surprised to see the UK got the Lada all the way back in 1974

 

do any UK RHD models from then still survive? I always pictured/remembered the Lada as a late 80s early 90s car in the UK 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

thats very interesting, and that link from Zel has been fun to flick through

 

also surprised to see the UK got the Lada all the way back in 1974

 

do any UK RHD models from then still survive? I always pictured/remembered the Lada as a late 80s early 90s car in the UK 

There was a 1600 saloon at FoTU this year. Think that was a 1977/78 car.

[Zelandeth]

Here we go...had to go back to my desktop to dig out the photos saved from the eBay auction years ago.

 

 

 

 

[Fumbler]

Of the 2107 there are. There is one for sale in the gloriously hideous hearing aid beige colour.

 

thats very interesting, and that link from Zel has been fun to flick through

 

also surprised to see the UK got the Lada all the way back in 1974

 

do any UK RHD models from then still survive? I always pictured/remembered the Lada as a late 80s early 90s car in the UK 

I know of one 2106 which is rotting with some Datsuns. There are several 2105s being used. There is a 2102 someone in the UK drives which is RHD.

 

And of course, there is the lovely 2104 estate which I'd love to have one day.

[Zelandeth]

There was a 1600 saloon at FoTU this year. Think that was a 1977/78 car.

 

Yep, an orange one.  They followed me out of the show as I recall.  Sadly I don't think I got any photos of it.

 

EDIT: Checked the photo folder and I didn't.  It's visible in this panorama though.

 

 

There are a few around - though at the time they were probably harder to spot as they were visually pretty much identical to the Fiats they were based on.  It was only with the Riva arriving in 1983(?) as a pretty major facelift that they became much more visually distinct - even if the mechanicals were by and large unchanged.

[Fumbler]

Something that I hope to delve into in the not-so-long future. It always amazes me how I like the communist idea of a car, and that I would be compelled to buy one. Father Fumbler is also surprised and would rather me buy new but where's the fun in that?

[Zelandeth]

I fully admit that I'd love a 2111 - which we never got in the UK.

There's one in Aberdeen on Romanian plates that I've seen a few times, but that's the only one I've ever seen here.

Time for a road trip?

I don't know if you'd run into serious headaches around type approval and such trying to get one road legal over here though. You'd be stuck with beam correctors on the headlights forever at the very least as I don't believe they were ever sold in any RHD markets.

 

Dez, here's a closeup of the LHM level indicator you were wondering about earlier.

 

 

Level looks slightly low here because our driveway is on a slight angle.

 

It does kinda look like an old school neon indicator now you mention it!

[Zelandeth]

If anyone needs any data from these please don't hesitate to give me a shout. 

 

 

I'll probably get them all digitised at some point, but if anyone's looking for anything more than happy to do that first.

 

No, before anyone asks, the Invacar sadly isn't in there.

[quicksilver]

Here's that 2106 from FOTU. It's a posh ES model with lots of extra goodies tacked on by the importers that the Russians didn't get.

 

1979 Lada 1600 ES by Adam Floyd, on Flickr

[LightBulbFun]

Very cool

 

I actually noticed if you go to the Wikipidia page for the Fiat 124, under the Lada Section the example of a 2101 they show is actually a RHD UK example

 

interestingly it shows Export marker=Yes

 

im guessing it headed back to russia? but i find it interesting that it happened in 2007 (at least thats when the car ran out of MOT) I know back when the soviet union collapsed they headed back in massive numbers because UK market cars where better built, but I figured by 2006-2007 such an early example and rare example would have been recognised as such, rather then be bought back and sent back to Russia (where im guessing it would of been converted to LHD?)

[Fumbler]

As far as I know they wouldn't convert the driving side. They would just sell it on to Vadim, or toss some of the shells into the sea. Looking back to Top Gear where Quentin Richards drove a top spec (thereabouts) 2105 back to Hull makes me feel a teensy bit sad seeing all those estates in very good colours go back to their home country. Oh well, it happened.

 

That 2106 sure does look lovely!

[Zelandeth]

I was told (a long while back and I can't remember by whom so no idea how true it was) that a lot of the cars which were shipped back to Russia were quickly converted back to LHD on their arrival there.  All the parts involved were plentiful and cheap there...and they felt they could charge a few quid more for an LHD car.

 

All of the RHD specific bits were just weighed in as scrap...Yes, the now utterly unobtainable RHD steering boxes and linkages...Oh for a time machine.

 

This afternoon I had planned to do something more useful but instead wound up having something of a rage clean in the Invacar.  The sheer level of junk in there reached the point that I couldn't stand it any more and I had to tidy it.  This then revealed how bloody filthy it was, so I had to do some cleaning afterwards.

 

It's now a slightly less unpleasant place to be as shown below.

 

 

While I was in there I reattached the fire extinguisher to its clip - not least because I'm fed up of tripping over it, dropping it on my feet and it generally just getting in the way.

 

 

I do however need to find the proper bracket for it.  This is obviously for a later type which would be taller than this one is.  Or I could just fit an up to date extinguisher - though having said that, in a plastic car it's kinda nice to now you've got the most effective extinguisher on hand, and in a pinch I'd definitely by choice grab a Halon extingusher to a modern powder one...

 

The somewhat sticky heater controls were traced to the cable sheaths being able to move around too much (the termination for that at the heater box isn't great), but having properly secured the cables to each other the controls seem to move the flaps in the control box around much more reliably.

 

 

Plus the cables look more tidy now and we all know that's just important.

[LightBulbFun]

I was told (a long while back and I can't remember by whom so no idea how true it was) that a lot of the cars which were shipped back to Russia were quickly converted back to LHD on their arrival there.  All the parts involved were plentiful and cheap there...and they felt they could charge a few quid more for an LHD car.

 

All of the RHD specific bits were just weighed in as scrap...Yes, the now utterly unobtainable RHD steering boxes and linkages...Oh for a time machine.

 

This afternoon I had planned to do something more useful but instead wound up having something of a rage clean in the Invacar.  The sheer level of junk in there reached the point that I couldn't stand it any more and I had to tidy it.  This then revealed how bloody filthy it was, so I had to do some cleaning afterwards.

 

It's now a slightly less unpleasant place to be as shown below.

 

IMG_20181230_161029.jpg

 

While I was in there I reattached the fire extinguisher to its clip - not least because I'm fed up of tripping over it, dropping it on my feet and it generally just getting in the way.

 

IMG_20181230_153223.jpg

 

I do however need to find the proper bracket for it.  This is obviously for a later type which would be taller than this one is.  Or I could just fit an up to date extinguisher - though having said that, in a plastic car it's kinda nice to now you've got the most effective extinguisher on hand, and in a pinch I'd definitely by choice grab a Halon extingusher to a modern powder one...

 

The somewhat sticky heater controls were traced to the cable sheaths being able to move around too much (the termination for that at the heater box isn't great), but having properly secured the cables to each other the controls seem to move the flaps in the control box around much more reliably.

 

IMG_20181230_153232.jpg

 

Plus the cables look more tidy now and we all know that's just important.

 

thats pretty interesting to see, the fire extinguisher looks much newer then whats in TWC (or maybe TWCs is the same type just much scruffier trying to recall now LOL), but its interesting to see its still a halon one I guess they really didn't mess around back in the day when was halon outlawed in the UK?, (I wonder if someone had the miss-fortune of having to use the TPAs original one?

[Fumbler]

Nice to know about the conversions. Shame that the steering boxes were all weighed in for a couple thousand roubles.

 

If someone was able to make one out of unobtanium I really do hope someone else makes a patent part out of it to save us all should the one on the RHD car fail.

[Zelandeth]

I think these days the best solution is usually speaking nicely to an engineering firm to repair the box. I seem to recall the necessary drawings are out there. They do still appear from time to time in good used form, but they're definitely getting harder to find. It doesn't help that they're usually about as good at keeping their oil in as Land Rover swivel joints.

 

VAZ were quite willing to make some new ones for us - on the condition that 10,000 were ordered if I remember the story correctly! Not really practical.

[Fumbler]

If only it was. The European Lada Power provides seals and adjusters but not much else in the way of steering components. One thing I'm very happy about is how many OEM parts they have in stock. I suppost I should be thanking IzhAvto for that.

[Zelandeth]

Couple of packages arrived in the last couple of days.

 

Probably the most important being this one.

 

 

That should allow me to properly refit the hard brake lines in a far less annoying way.  The original lines have the joins between pipes in a really awkward location, so I'm going to use a few more separate bits of pipe to make life easier.  I'm probably also going to relocate the T-piece at the rear to somewhere slightly higher up so it's accessible easily through the transmission access hatch.  I've found that you're far less likely to foul up stuff when you can see what you're doing.  I've definitely got "investigate dual circuit brake upgrade" on the radar for the future.  That will likely be highly dependent on how much I wind up using the car though.  If I find myself using it a lot, it's definitely something I'd want to look in to.  Likewise adding a brake fluid level warning light.  Easy addition that just makes sense.

 

Second package contained this:

 

 

Nice new door seals.  So these will at some point replace my somewhat dog eared originals.  That will be a while away yet though, after any paintwork is done if I seem it necessary most likely.  Unless I have a crappy afternoon and decide I just want to get *something* done anyhow...

 

So, let's do a quick sitrep with regards to MOT prep.

 

Stuff I still need to do:

 

[] Tidy up brake lines, fully bleed and test system.

-- [] Replace master/wheel cylinders which don't behave.

[] Fit slightly smaller U-bolts to the driver's seat base to stop it wobbling.

-- [] Remove redundant seat belt buckle and pretensioner attached to the seat as they just get in the way.

[] Reattach front service hatch.

[] Reattach offside interior door release.

[] Sort engine cover lock.

[] Install fuel tank and lines.

[] Fit set of new tyres.

[] Sort out bodywork sufficiently that Mr MOT Tester doesn't see any sharp edges.

[] Fit horn & either replace indicator stalk or fit separate button for it (that function on the stalk is seized).  It will be getting a twin air horn...tiny car requires the loudest horn possible that I can fit in the available space.

[] General fettle of all lamp holders etc.

 

That should be it I think.  There will be a million small jobs from now to infinity, but those should be everything that she needs to officially become roadworthy...

 

Sounds like a lot listed like that, but a lot of those things are laughably simple, and nothing there is filling me with dread.

 

Bodywork was, but since I've come up with a bit of a plan of attack for that I've actually started to look forward to getting stuck into it.