Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 16/04 - Routine Consumables...

[Jikovron]

That looks like 26Tpi up against the rule as I count 13 threads but if there is a paralax then I'm likely wrong lol

[Jikovron]

Just now, Jikovron said:

That looks like 26Tpi up against the rule as I count 13 threads but if there is a paralax then I'm likely wrong lol

As you were your right 10-24 unc ,,,I included the first peak!! 

[Zelandeth]

Package arrived this morning that I'd honestly forgotten ordering.

I had noticed when out in TPA after dark that the indicator flasher was struggling when I had the headlights on.  It was fine otherwise, but once the headlights were on the indicators basically just stayed on constantly save for the occasional blink every 40 seconds or so.

I was honestly astonished this thing even worked bearing in mind it looked like this when I found it back in KPL!

I'm pretty sure I shook a not insignificant amount of water out of it too.

New one was all of £3 from eBay.

Indicators now flash even without the engine running with the headlights and brake lights on, so looks like problem solved.  It's still a thermal flasher though so we should still get the old school variation in flash rate depending on system voltage (and ambient temperature) we're used to.  The old one has been stowed in the "tired but serviceable" spares box.

Next task was to refit the wiper mechanism to the Jag...having checked that it was still behaving properly after I reassembled it (it was).  This went fine right up to the point at which I snapped the hose barb off the check valve for the windscreen washers.

I uttered some quite unprintable things when that happened.  No huge problem, replacement was all of £2 from Motorserv, but it was just annoying.  This has been one of those jobs which has just been determined to take as long as possible.  At least once I've got that fitted I can properly bolt the scuttle cover grill back down and hopefully forget about that for another couple of years.

While I was putting things away I stumbled across an LED P21 retrofit bulb I discounted using for actual vehicle lighting a while ago and realised that I did actually have a good place to use it.

That's far more useful than what used to be in there for a fraction of the power usage.  We've found we do actually tend to use that light quite a bit in the evenings in the summer if we're sitting under the awning and/or when tidying stuff up.  So having actually useful output from it is definitely a bonus.

This is a pretty accurate before photo if you were actually looking straight at it.

 

There was another little vintage electronics care package waiting for me on the doorstep this morning.

First up, the Texas Instruments TI-1250.

This was a low cost calculator dating from 1975.  The TI-1200 (which I have one of already) is identical but doesn't have the memory functions - well...it actually does.  It just doesn't have the buttons fitted!.

This one is pretty much immaculate.  The only visible wear anywhere is on the label on the back.

Here it is next to my TI-30 for scale.

Nicely this one seems to be mercifully free of the key bounce issues which plague both my TI-30 and T-1200.

It's noticeable that this doesn't have the "screensaver" mode that the TI-30 does which blanks the display aside from a single chasing dot to save battery power.  Also when the TI-30 encounters either an error or an overflow condition it actually prints out "error" on the display like so...

...Whereas the TI-1250 simply flashes the whole display to signify such conditions.

This display is also about twice as bright as the TI-30.

Next up is the Casio LC-828.  Again still with its admittedly rather battered box.

While the box may be battered, the contents are immaculate.

Launched in 1985 this is a carbon copy of the LC-826 from 1979, simply using more modern LCD technology allowing the yellow filter to be dispensed with and with the case graphics having had a slight refresh.

Display seems to be identical even down to the border around the function symbols.

 

Now for the main reason I grabbed this little trio though, the Sharp EL-8130A.  I'd not seen one of these before.

First impression on picking this up: "This feels expensive."

It basically feels like a solid slab of brushed aluminium that someone has just carved a calculator out of.

I was expecting this to be mid 80s...but a bit of research shows this to date from 1977-79!

Look how thin it is!

That's 0.5cm right there.

Even the texture printed on the rear of the case looks classy.

Guessing from that serial number this one dates from 1979.

I'm waiting on batteries to arrive for this before I can test it, though I've confirmed it does work.  Still had the original (very dead) batteries in, being Sharp branded they're almost a museum piece in themselves.

The flat panel keypad looks just like your typical touch sensor, but has an almost leatherette sort of texture to it and does deform just enough to know you've actually pressed a key - miles better than that Tandy (Casio made) PDA I got hold of last week!  It also has the option for a keypad beep, which with any membrane keypad seems a sensible option to have.  Turning that on or off is what the key with the musical note on is for.

An interesting little time capsule from the era where there was a distinct race between makers to create the thinnest possible calculator.

Should hopefully have some more actual car content on the way soon! 

[jon928se]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:36 PM, Zelandeth said:

Have to wonder how long it is till she pops up spotted somewhere.  The Xantia so far is the only one that's made a mention on groups on both Twitter and Facebook...and I thought it would be the least noticeable car I've owned in years!

Headlights seem to do the job, though I've not been on an unlit road yet so it's hard to really tell.  They definitely need adjustment though as they're way too low at the moment (I deliberately erred on the not blinding oncoming driver's side when setting them up).  Will need to get a tape measure and some sticky tape out to make a target on the garage door and adjust them properly.

They definitely visibly light the road in front of me though even in traffic under streetlights - more than can be said for the headlights in the Xantia which are bloody hopeless.

Looks like I've got my text editor quandary sorted.  A regular on one of the other forums I'm on suggested Borland Sprint as a good editor for resource limited machines.  Definitely seems decent so far.

Runs happily off a single 720K floppy and does exactly what you'd expect a text editor to.

Tasword would be fine I reckon if you were literally treating the machine like an electronic typewriter and just dumping the resulting file into a text printer.  It's basically useless if you want to take the text and import it into other software though.  It justifies the text by inserting double or triple spaces to evenly spread words over a line - and adds a carriage return at the end of each line.  So you end up having to spend a huge amount of time fixing that before you can do anything else with it in other software.

Sprint happily seems to spit out an absolutely bog standard text file.  Not sure what encoding it's using but my main PC seems to have auto detected it just fine.

Reckon that will be a good match for the Toshiba T3100e too.  It does run WordPerfect, but it takes a bloody age to load...and takes up rather a chunk of the 20mb hard drive. 

I'm still curious to know what it was that I used to run back in 1999/2000 on the T1200... hopefully when I get a working one back up and going I'll be able to find it on the hard disk and see what it was.  Sprint does feel very familiar though, so it may well be that!  I do recall *finding* a workable solution took me a while back then though...was before the days of WinWorld and similar abandonware archives which are absolute godsends to the likes of me these days!

Back in then if you suddenly discovered one of your Windows 3.11 install discs had a read error it was a real pain!  I distinctly remember having my folks driving me around for several hours until I found someone who had a set I could copy a spare from!

 

Have you tried PCWrite. IIRC would run from one one 320k floppy. I still have a copy from 1986 I could put on google drive for you if required. It's still the only editor I have come across that would let you search and replace with wildcards in the search that would be replicated in the replace. 

On second thoughts as it's very emailable let me know your email address and I'll email the folder contents. IIRC you just run the exe file from the folder it is in and it will automatically find everything else. Sadly it won't run directly on a Windows 8.1 64 bit machine so I can't test it.

[Zelandeth]

16 hours ago, jon928se said:

Have you tried PCWrite. IIRC would run from one one 320k floppy. I still have a copy from 1986 I could put on google drive for you if required. It's still the only editor I have come across that would let you search and replace with wildcards in the search that would be replicated in the replace. 

On second thoughts as it's very emailable let me know your email address and I'll email the folder contents. IIRC you just run the exe file from the folder it is in and it will automatically find everything else. Sadly it won't run directly on a Windows 8.1 64 bit machine so I can't test it.

Not one I've heard of that I remember anyway - nor is it listed on WinWorld.  Email address is just this name at gmail.com (I don't really care about that being in the open...it's already linked to from my website).  Would definitely be curious to give it a try and add to the library.  You can never have too many software options.

I'm hoping once I get the Toshiba T1200 back up and running that it will be one of my more often used machines as it's a nice form factor and has good battery life, so will give me a good excuse to have a bit of a dig around for decent old DOS based software.

-- -- --

Had the Jag out and about today and I'm glad to report that the wipers have behaved all day.  The only unexpected discovery (other than re-re-re-rediscovering quite how careful you need to be applying power from a standing start in the wet) was finding that I'd obviously managed to get some grease on either the windscreen or one of the wiper blades...so it's a complete smear-fest at the moment.  a really thorough clean and degrease of the windscreen will be task number 1 for tomorrow.

[dollywobbler]

Your exploits in TPA have inspired me to have another go at freeing the distributor on TWC. It's been getting regular doses of penetrating oil, though no joy yet. After what happened last time, I'm reluctant to put too much force into the dizzy housing...

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Your exploits in TPA have inspired me to have another go at freeing the distributor on TWC. It's been getting regular doses of penetrating oil, though no joy yet. After what happened last time, I'm reluctant to put too much force into the dizzy housing...

Before getting too involved in trying to move the timing, would it be worth checking what it's set to?

Can't honestly say I ever did with TPA as I never had any real reason to touch it.  I can check it though to give a comparative value for you at least.

Definitely worth cleaning, gapping the points and sticking a fresh condenser in though I found!

Given these were originally set up to run on two star fuel it wouldn't surprise me if they could handle a bit of a tweak to the timing without causing any issues though.  If the distributor wasn't welded in place anyway...

[dollywobbler]

I've a feeling I did check the timing when it was still in TPA and found it a little retarded but good enough for me to yank the engine out. That means I've haven't checked it for a fair while though!

[somewhatfoolish]

2 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Your exploits in TPA have inspired me to have another go at freeing the distributor on TWC. It's been getting regular doses of penetrating oil, though no joy yet. After what happened last time, I'm reluctant to put too much force into the dizzy housing...

Cyclic heating and cooling is worth a go, get a tin of freeze spray and alternate with a heat gun or even just taking the thing for an italian tune-up.

[SiC]

Get the engine super hot from a good drive first before attempting to turn it again?

But then if it 'aint broke, don't try breaking it?

[Noel Tidybeard]

i had a texas ti 53 like this

you could unclip the back and flip the lcd filter to give white on black 🤡

[egg]

I think the oldest calculator I have is this Casio, from the late 90s. I had a fx82  or two before that at school, but I think it got nicked by a classmate*

[Noel Tidybeard]

i had a 451 like Zels and the leatherette cover used to freak everone out as they thought it felt like skin!

 

***edit***

i think i may have had 2 of these as i'm sure one had a full width solar panel

 

***edit 2***

it would seem i may have had a fx-450 before the 451!

[dozeydustman]

Back onto 80's Amstrad PCs, I used to use Galaxy on my 1512, as well as the Zenith PC (Z181?) my dad borrowed* from work.

* 3 rescued  from a skip from which we made 1 good one. With Hercules graphics

[Zelandeth]

Okay... I'll really need to reign in the vintage tech acquisition a little, but have one more on the way.  Most notable in that this allows me to tick off another display technology - in this case one I've never actually seen in person so far - one of the first generation DSM LCDs.

I never even realised they were so functionally different to "conventional" LCDs in their operating principle...I just assumed they had the polariser flipped.  Never realised the digits were actually opaque when powered until a couple of days ago.  Will be really curious to see it.

[LightBulbFun]

this funnily enough popped up in my twitter feed just now  

https://twitter.com/kenshirriff/status/1340369275836538880

figured it would be rude not to share it here  if nothing else for the very funky looking VFD display, never seen one stylised like that before

[Zelandeth]

Yeah, something with the Itron display is probably going to be next on the list I'd think.

[Zelandeth]

Well that's just great.  I am apparently now in ownership of three dead battery chargers.

The fancy pants smart one went bang last week.  It was used to charge the battery from the C5, so has actually had far more use than most domestic ones would see, and was bought back in 2014.  So while it's annoying I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it.

Number 2 was a cheapy old school one bought from Tesco on the way to Center Parcs one year when I realised I'd forgotten to pack the above charger for the C5.  It has been used maybe half a dozen times.  Transformer primary is open circuit.

Number 3 is another old school one dating from around 2005.  Rectifier in that's gone short.

So I think tomorrow's job will be to make one working charger out of the latter two.  Then think about actually buying a new battery charger.  I only wanted to top off the vehicle battery in the van as it sounded like she turned over a bit slow last time I moved her.  A temporary solution has been deployed involving the leisure battery charger and a jump lead.  Not pretty but it'll do.

So.. current fleet status report.

[] Xantia.  Usable in emergencies but temporarily laid up.

- Rear spheres utterly shot so I've got about 1" of suspension travel.

- Cam belt overdue.

- Rear brakes grumbling (new discs and pads are in the boot).

- Water still getting into the bloody boot from somewhere.

- OS headlight dip beam bulb failed AGAIN last time I was out.  Really don't want to have to change that again...

[] Van.  In winter hibernation.  MOT is out and it just doesn't make sense given the current situation to get it tested until then.

- Needs rear brake Flexi hoses.  I reckon they should have been flagged up at the last MOT rather than failing it on not missing missing rear reflectors - especially as the garage did several hundred Anne's worth of work on the rear brakes.  Reckon I'm just going to change all of them on the van for peace of mind.  She's a heavy old barge and it's really not much extra work.

- Would like to try to tame the exhaust a bit.  May try sticking one of the deresonator boxes I took off the Jag on...

[] Jag.  Being a Jag...

- Finally sorted the windscreen wipers, then the alternator stopped charging.  Well until I got home and tried to investigate, at which point it refused to misbehave again.  Keeping an eye on it.  If it does it again and the issue turns out to be with the alternator (rather than an external issue like a dodgy connection to the warning light on the dash) it'll just get replaced.  It looks like a replacement will be around £150, and given how awful access is I'd far rather just sort it in one shot rather than replacing the brushes or regulator only to have a bearing fail in six months time and have to pull it out again.

- Not sure if we still have water getting into the cabin.  It's still quite musty, but quite a bit of the carpeting can't easily be removed so that may be responsible.  Need to get my dehumidifier sorted and leave it in the car for a few days.

- Headlights are bloody useless.  Will drop a fresh pair of lamps in and see if that helps.

- Economy seems to have shifted from ~12mpg to ~14mpg with the fitment of the new tyres.

[] Invacar.  Getting better with use.

- Demister is useless.

- Need to tidy up the distributor.  I'm just going to get a small enclosure and mount the condenser externally.  The replacement I've fitted is far physically larger than the original.  It'll be painted to match the engine cowling so you wouldn't know it wasn't just meant to be there.

- Instrument pod needs finished.  I fitted it months ago but still haven't wired it in.  Recent issue with the Jag not charging has reminded me how useful an instrument a voltmeter can be.  I'm ditching the oil pressure gauge for now as getting a feed for the pressure sensor will be a pain and will need me to make up an extension pipe to mount it remotely because the pressure switch is stuffed down between the distributor and oil filter.  The second instrument will be a cylinder head temperature gauge.  I'll fit that to the nearside head as it will be the one that runs hottest I'd expect on account of it being shaded by the oil cooler.  I don't expect this to be anything resembling an issue around town, but I'd prefer to have some idea of how temperatures are doing during sustained high speed cruising or on any long climbs up gradients.  Third instrument will be a clock.  I'd not realised how annoying not having one would be until I started using the car regularly.  Will all just be whatever comes to hand for now, but I'll fit period appropriate Smith's gauges if/when I find them.

 

 

[PhilA]

35mm film canister?

[SiC]

Get a bench power supply, set it to ~14v and let it sit on the current limiter until it's charged. 

 

[Zelandeth]

19 hours ago, PhilA said:

35mm film canister?

Probably just going to use an off-the-shelf IP65 enclosure.  Will be a bit bigger than I need but it'll do the job and will be a lot easier to mount securely.  If I position it on the nearside chassis rail it'll disappear as that's where the battery, start solenoid, coil, voltage reg etc all is anyway.  I *really* want to fit a remote starter switch in the engine bay as well so may well use the same enclosure to house that.

Finally had a package from the US arrive today - which was posted well over a month ago.

This was a very random purchase from a while ago which very much appealed to my inner geek.

These bags contained these bits of hardware.  One switch and one indicator.

While these are both from the 80s I believe, the designs haven't really changed hugely since the 60s.

The number of components in this thing for a four way latching switch is absolutely ridiculous.

From an engineering perspective it is simply a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

Now need to figure out something to do with it...Probably a master power switch for my workstation as I can use the split indicator (one side is red, other is green) for something useful then.

Yes, those are the same style as used in the Nasa control rooms from the Apollo era onwards (these are a slightly later style, but very similar).  The one labelled Radar Acquisition is actually made by the Master Specialities Company who produced the original Apollo era kit, the unlabelled one is made by Unimax, but they're a very similar setup.  Main differences are in the panel mounting method and the exact design of the ratchet used to latch it.

I've always been a major Apollo enthusiast, so the moment one of the YouTubers I follow identified what the switchgear in the old MOCR (which everyone calls Mission Control) actually was I was on eBay hunting stuff down within minutes.

The seller I got this pair from has THOUSANDS of mil spec bits of switchgear and instrumentation in their eBay shop - I could quite happily have spent a small fortune in there as it's basically an entire shop full of stuff I WANT.  I have precisely zero use for 99.993% of the stuff I'd buy, but that doesn't stop me wanting it!  The only thing which saved me from going utterly overboard was that postage costs a small fortune from the US these days.  If I'm ever in that area in a future visit to the US though you can absolutely guarantee that probably half my luggage will be full of stuff from that warehouse.  I will seriously be like a kid in a sweet shop.

[PhilA]

You need to get a speed camera detector, mount it in a suitable aerospace housing with the RADAR AQUISITION light that comes on when it detects a signal.

Then mount it in the Invacar.

[PhilA]

Oh, and note that a box up to 1.25 lb is $24.50 flat rate.

Just make sure that the customs value is marked under $15 because otherwise you'll get a NOT ON THE FREE MARKET $32 fee imposed and the box held at the Post Office for ransom.

[Zelandeth]

11 hours ago, PhilA said:

Oh, and note that a box up to 1.25 lb is $24.50 flat rate.

Just make sure that the customs value is marked under $15 because otherwise you'll get a NOT ON THE FREE MARKET $32 fee imposed and the box held at the Post Office for ransom.

One of those situations where they're a commercial seller, so not a huge amount of say over how things happen.  Was a setup where all the fees etc were paid as part of the postage, as has been the case with the last couple of things I've ordered from there.

Still remember getting absolutely clobbered with fees a couple of years back when a $300 order wound up costing me north of £300 by the time I'd paid all the fees and got Parcelforce to release it to me.  It still royally irks me that they charge VAT not only on the value of the goods you're importing but also on the price of the postage (which was about £75 in itself on that occasion).

Nothing huge to report today, but the enclosure I'll be putting the distributor condenser on the Invacar has arrived.

Nothing fancy, it'll do what I need it to just fine though.

I'll probably tuck it away underneath the battery tray in the engine bay so should disappear once it's in place and has got a bit of dust and grime covering it.

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I really want to install a remote engine start switch in the engine bay.  That will likely end up on this enclosure as well which makes it a little less oversized for the job.

In other Invacar related news, I reckon I'm now about 1/3 of the way through the first pass of the basic text for the webpage for the car.  There will then be images to add, links to make, references to quote etc...but I'm getting somewhere at least.  Which is massive progress compared to anything I've done in the last...well decade if I'm totally honest.

[Zelandeth]

Nothing to report car-wise today thanks to the non-stop rain.  Aside from nervously watching as the run off from the driveway made it into the garage - thankfully only by a few inches.

Fair warning...The rest of this post is all vintage tech.  If that's not your thing, don't bother reading on.  I just don't do quite enough of this to really be worth my splitting of an entirely separate thread elsewhere...Plus I know from prior history that I'll utterly fail to remember to keep more than one thread updated.

Did have the last arrival I'd been waiting for in the old tech category for now though.

Didn't spot from the eBay listing that it still had the original slip case, that's always nice to have for something in the collection.

At a glance it's just a very basic four function calculator, by 1972 when this dates from that really wasn't anything to write home about.  What was the standout feature of this example though was the display.  This was as far as I'm aware only the second model commercially available which made use of a liquid crystal display.  Though it's not quite an LCD as you know it (unless you're into this sort of stuff...though even then I'd not seen one of these in person until this evening).

So it's got the light/dark flipped...what's the big deal?

Oh no...It's much more than that.  This is a DSM LCD - or Dynamic Scattering Mode LCD.  The Twisted Nematic LCDs you're used to seeing work by changing the way the polarise the light depending on whether a segment is subjected to an electric field or not.  These are very, very different.  For a start, no polarisers anywhere here.  The way these work is that in their rest state they are completely transparent, however when current is passed through a segment here the crystal structure is disturbed so the segment becomes opaque, taking on the appearance of frosted glass.

The way Sharp used this actually to place the display segments in front of a mirror.

The inside of the hood on this calculator is lined with a black felt which is what the mirror behind the display reflects so as to give a good visual contrast.

It's a challenge to photograph clearly!  However the display is every bit as clear as it looks in the photos.  The really interesting thing is that if you look close enough you can actually see a sort of shimmering effect within the LCD segments due to interference patterns set up within the crystals.

There are far less decent photos of DSM displays out there than I expected, so here's a few.

That's where I've slipped a bit of paper in between the hood and the display so you can see how the digits actually do appear like frost on the mirror rather than anything vaguely resembling the appearance of any other type of display I've ever seen.

That almost retroreflective like texture on the surface of the digits isn't a camera artefact - it's not static either.  The digits do actually shimmer very slightly whenever the display segments are powered.  It's quite beautiful to observe through a powerful macro lens.

I'll need to do some experimentation with a macro lens and natural light to see if I can do better.

A video showing some absolutely gorgeous super-macro video of these displays in action can be found here though:

On a completely unrelated note to display technology, which is why I bought this thing...Is it just me, or does this thing seriously look like an Original Series Star Trek tricorder?

The quality of this thing is worlds apart from anything like this nowadays...Absolutely everything about it just *feels* expensive and just oozes quality.

Quite a bit smaller than I thought it was, here's it next to the Kovac which turned up a week or so back.

Yeah, this one is going to be staying on the desk full time I think. 

That pretty much gives me *nearly* full coverage on display technology now I think...

[] Nixie: Check.  Fine, it's a benchtop multimeter, but Nixie calculators are EXPENSIVE.

[] Panaplax: Nearly...The Kovac has a segmented neon display which is nearly there.  The only calculator I'm actively looking for just now does have a Panaplax display though.  Compucorp 324G or similar if you happen to have one floating around...

[] EL: No...Though I don't *think* anything as small as a calculator has ever used an EL display.  They were more of a competitor to plasma displays in the early days of laptops I think.

[] LCD: All three generations, check.

Only missing the really exotic ones like edge lit incandescent or single plane projection (Don't think numitrons were ever used in calculators?)...Still have my eye on getting a proper flipdot display at some point to, but that's nothing whatsoever to do with vintage technology really, I just want one!

Oh...Or CRT.  A Friden EC-130 or 132 would be sort of the "unicorn" find for me.  I seem to recall making strange squeaking noises when I spotted one in the National Museum of Computing.  Odds of ever finding one: Slim to zero.  Odds of finding one for sale at a price I can justify paying: Probably less than zero.

Hopefully I might actually be able to get back into the garage at some point in the next couple of days if the rain ever stops!

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

That pretty much gives me *nearly* full coverage on display technology now I think...

[] Nixie: Check.  Fine, it's a benchtop multimeter, but Nixie calculators are EXPENSIVE.

[] Panaplax: Nearly...The Kovac has a segmented neon display which is nearly there.  The only calculator I'm actively looking for just now does have a Panaplax display though.  Compucorp 324G or similar if you happen to have one floating around...

[] EL: No...Though I don't *think* anything as small as a calculator has ever used an EL display.  They were more of a competitor to plasma displays in the early days of laptops I think.

[] LCD: All three generations, check.

Only missing the really exotic ones like edge lit incandescent or single plane projection (Don't think numitrons were ever used in calculators?)...Still have my eye on getting a proper flipdot display at some point to, but that's nothing whatsoever to do with vintage technology really, I just want one!

Oh...Or CRT.  A Friden EC-130 or 132 would be sort of the "unicorn" find for me.  I seem to recall making strange squeaking noises when I spotted one in the National Museum of Computing.  Odds of ever finding one: Slim to zero.  Odds of finding one for sale at a price I can justify paying: Probably less than zero.

Hopefully I might actually be able to get back into the garage at some point in the next couple of days if the rain ever stops!

I think you missed one, the 7 segment display made up of incandescent strip lightbulbs as seen in the secret life of machines the Quartz watch  

at around about 18:50  for those who have not seen it before (and if you have not I do highly recommend checking out the episode and all of the Secret life of machine episodes in their entirety) 

 

 

but on a slightly more serious note I never knew that type of LCD was a thing until now, it reminds a lot of those controllable windows you see that go from clear to frosted at a flick of a switch,

also holy shit that video you linked is quite something! really quite fascinating up close, Ill definitely have to get a good look at yours when the world returns to some vague semblance of "normal"  

(also never knew they made CRT based purpose built electronic calculators, thats very cool)

[Zelandeth]

41 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I think you missed one, the 7 segment display made up of incandescent strip lightbulbs as seen in the secret life of machines the Quartz watch  

at around about 18:50  for those who have not seen it before (and if you have not I do highly recommend checking out the episode and all of the Secret life of machine episodes in their entirety) 

 

 

but on a slightly more serious note I never knew that type of LCD was a thing until now, it reminds a lot of those controllable windows you see that go from clear to frosted at a flick of a switch,

also holy shit that video you linked is quite something! really quite fascinating up close, Ill definitely have to get a good look at yours when the world returns to some vague semblance of "normal"  

(also never knew they made CRT based purpose built electronic calculators, thats very cool)

I was sticking to commercially used standards...if we're including homebrew it becomes far more interesting (and potentially silly).

I knew DSM displays were a thing, I've seen calculators from the early 70s in various online museums with the white digits...just the photos there never really made it at all clear that they weren't just a normal LCD with the polariser flipped.  I just assumed it dated from before someone had decided dark on light was the standard to settle on.  Only recently I realised that the entire operating principle was completely different, and that they look completely different.

You'll definitely have to have a look next time you're round.  I'll grab my best macro lens next time I'm in the loft (one of the focusing lenses from our old rear projection TV!) and see if I can get some better closeups.  Possibly even video.

It's a crying shame they're so rare as I'd love to set a clock up using one, it's a really quite beautiful display.  Especially when the digit state changes as you can actually see the interference patterns caused by the physical crystal structure moving.

Not surprised you hadn't really heard of them though, they were only around for a year or two, twisted nematic displays rendered them obsolete virtually overnight once they cracked the manufacturing challenges and started churning those out in volume.

I'll need to investigate but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if those switchable opaque/clear glass windows used a DSM liquid crystal element to achieve the effect...I can't off the top of my head think of any other way you'd do it!

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

I was sticking to commercially used standards...if we're including homebrew it becomes far more interesting (and potentially silly).

I knew DSM displays were a thing, I've seen calculators from the early 70s in various online museums with the white digits...just the photos there never really made it at all clear that they weren't just a normal LCD with the polariser flipped.  I just assumed it dated from before someone had decided dark on light was the standard to settle on.  Only recently I realised that the entire operating principle was completely different, and that they look completely different.

You'll definitely have to have a look next time you're round.  I'll grab my best macro lens next time I'm in the loft (one of the focusing lenses from our old rear projection TV!) and see if I can get some better closeups.  Possibly even video.

It's a crying shame they're so rare as I'd love to set a clock up using one, it's a really quite beautiful display.

Not surprised you hadn't really heard of them though, they were only around for a year or two, twisted nematic displays rendered them obsolete virtually overnight once they cracked the manufacturing challenges and started churning those out in volume.

I'll need to investigate but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if those switchable opaque/clear glass windows used a DSM liquid crystal element to achieve the effect...I can't off the top of my head think of any other way you'd do it!

Yeah I too wonder if I had seen some without realising it, since as you say they look a lot like just an inverted LCD at first glance

and yeah iv not looked into it, but thats one of the reasons I mentioned those windows I cant think how else you would do it!

 

but that does remind me tho, do these count as their own display tech? (and did anyone make an E-Ink calculator? LOL)

 

[Zelandeth]

Interesting question... I'm not *aware* of one.  Though I know Motorola did produce at least one mobile phone which used an e-ink display.  I'm sure someone will have used one in a calculator - though these days probably out of novelty or because an OEM in China suddenly found they had suddenly ended up with a surplus of 100,000 displays because of an ordering balls up, rather than as a demonstration of technological prowess as with the first LCD calculators.  Only thing I can see working against them would be bulk as e-ink displays are a lot deeper than an LCD - the two devices I've had to bits with them in (Kindles in need of battery replacement) have had displays that were about 5mm deep, so pretty much on par with a TFT panel.

Never had a chance to play around with those memory LCDs, though I did look into using one for a project years ago.  It just didn't make sense though unless the display spends a huge amount of time static as the power required to actually flip the state of each pixel was higher than for a bog standard TN display - for which the power requirements are pretty much negligible anyway.  I'm sure there are applications where they'd be very well suited though. 

I *think* the memory LCDs are sort of a hybrid LCD/electrochromic job...but we're talking memory from me rummaging through datasheets back in 2005 or earlier...so I'd suggest having a poke around Google and see for yourself.

...Just because it appeals to my sense of silly...have a a picture of a DSM LCD displayed on an e-ink display.

No huge surprise the browser doesn't render this site too well...

To be fair it was always buggy as hell, and that was back in...2007(?) I think when I bought this thing and I don't think they ever updated it!  Only thing I've ever used it for was downloading files over the local network anyway...WiFi is never on otherwise.

 

[RichardK]

Love clocks, watches and gadgets like this, but no electronics in my clock...