Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 19/04 - HVAC Preemptive Investigation...

[SiC]

How hard is it to remove the bonnet?

[Broadsword]

Loving the sound of the V12 in that video. The gearbox sounds smooth as well. Great progress on multiple fronts there. The dash lighting is an important job for sure as it is very hard to see most of the instruments on your average XJS in the dark. For the belts I'd definitely get the bonnet off. As long has you have a spare pair of hands it's dead easy. Remove six or so self tapping screws to get the grille off, then four bolts behind it hold the bonnet on. You will need a 1/4 inch ratchet with a socket attachment for your Phillips screwdriver bits to get the grille screws off due to the angle the are in. They are stainless steel though so should come off.

[Zelandeth]

The illumination on the instrument panel isn't bad actually.  Really the ventilation controls which suffer from poor lighting.  The switchgear isn't great but does the job.  I've heard a lot of people say the instruments are poorly lit but they're definitely better than the ones on the Lada or van in the dark.  The warning lights are pathetic though and will all be converted to LED where possible (not sure if it's possible to do that for the ignition light as I assume it's in series with the alternator excitation winding as on most cars).

Have another few coats of clear coat on the trim now but sadly forgot to get any photos.  Has dried a bit dull today I think because it was a bit too cold, so will make sure the last couple of coats are applied in the garage.

[SiC]

Alternator bulb can always be converted to LED providing an exciter resistor is put in parallel. Actually how many modern cars do it out of the factory with LED dashes. 

[Zelandeth]

Useful to know.  Figured something like that would work, just not something I'd ever given much thought to before.  The old school symbology used on the ignition light on this car pleases me far too much.

Confusingly the battery symbol is also present on the dash - it however is an overcharge warning. 

They're labelled backwards in the handbook too!  I'm chalking that up to British Car Syndrome I think.

While digging around for something else I came across someone on eBay who had some switches available for a sensible price, so have ordered replacements for the rear window heater and main interior light switches as mine have cracked lenses.

There is a little crazing in the other two but it's not noticeable unless you're looking closely, whereas these ones look horrible just now.

They're little details I know, but will be nice to have things like this sorted.  Just helps make the car feel more like it's mine getting them ticked off too.

[dozeydustman]

My Scimitars (SE6 & 6a) had that lightning bolt no charge warning. So did Bedford TKs with the later round dials. Most other old British cars I've been in had a red light with IGN under it.

[Anglevan]

Been watching your exploits with the Jag for a bit, it looks simply amazing and great to see all the effort you are going to. 

[Zelandeth]

After quite a bit of experimentation I eventually came to the conclusion that the correct formula required to remove the old finish from the woodwork is a combination of carefully applied heat and patience. I'm sure if I could get hold of some proper old school Nitromors (the can we thought I'd found it turned out had dissolved the bottom out of the tin) or similar I'm sure it would be sorted in minutes...but the modern water based nonsense is a total waste of space when up against what I am pretty sure at this point is a polyeurythane clearcoat.

The starting point:

After the old clear coat had been removed it was given a gentle rub down with 1200 grit sand paper just to remove any bits I had missed and to key the surface ready for the application of the new coating.

Which is a little disheartening to be honest as it ends up looking awful when the first couple of coats are applied.

However after a few coats it did start to look better, though spraying one coat when the ambient temperature was too cold resulted in a satin-like finish at close of play a couple of days ago.

Today though it felt like we actually made decent progress towards it looking decent, reasonably warm but breezy weather was ideal to get several coats added to it which has resulted in a pretty decent finish.

I think this one better demonstrates the degree of gloss we've managed to attain (even though the camera has helpfully focused on the wrong surface).

Those pieces are sitting in the spare room just now safely tucked away while the clearcoat fully hardens. Given I now have a workflow which works reasonably well for this I'll look to get the remaining trim removed and put through a similar treatment shortly. While this isn't maybe a factory perfect finish I think it's fair to say that it will look a whole lot better in the car than the flaky mess that's currently in there.

[Zelandeth]

14 hours ago, dozeydustman said:

My Scimitars (SE6 & 6a) had that lightning bolt no charge warning. So did Bedford TKs with the later round dials. Most other old British cars I've been in had a red light with IGN under it.

The same as on the Y series Bedfords too.

Which I really think looked to be a lovely well integrated bit of design compared to the random scattering of parts bin lights and gauges seen on Leyland and similar products of the time.  Had all the warning lights, dual circuit air pressure gauge, fuel and temperature gauges all in one package...all you needed to add was a speedometer/tachograph and if you wanted, a rev counter.

[dozeydustman]

7 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

The same as on the Y series Bedfords too.

Which I really think looked to be a lovely well integrated bit of design compared to the random scattering of parts bin lights and gauges seen on Leyland and similar products of the time.  Had all the warning lights, dual circuit air pressure gauge, fuel and temperature gauges all in one package...all you needed to add was a speedometer/tachograph and if you wanted, a rev counter.

I think by the time of the Leyland National things had changed. The national’s dash, while very utilitarian, used bespoke parts very well laid out.

 

[Zelandeth]

True, the National dash was a brilliant example of minimalist industrial design, even if the warning lights are nigh on invisible in direct sunlight.  Think in that time period though it was the exception rather than the rule.

Got the first two bits of trim refitted into the Jag now.  Think it's fair to say it will be worth the effort once it's all back in place.

Glovebox lid and the trim from the offside air vent are now on the operating table waiting their turn.

[LightBulbFun]

liking the jag fettling, always nice to the small jobs come together  

 

BTW @beko1987's comment here

 

18 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

I'm presuming you wanted it for the complete looking rear axle, brake components, good wheels and tyres and suspension rather than wanting a trailer? Because its not a good trailer (we borrowed the smashed light fitting from the trailer board to make a test lamp for cx fettling) but it rolls and bounces well

 

did make me wonder, I know obviously the Model 64, does not share any major components with the Model 70 but I do wonder if it uses the same wheel studs that the Model 70 use?

sadly the parts manual does not say sadly (the Model 70 uses its own spare parts numbering system compared to the rest of the electric and villers machines which in themselves use the same number scheme) but I would not be surprised if it does  

if they are the same, then your more then welcome to rob them off the trailer if it gets TPA back on the road  

[Scruffy Bodger]

If you need some proper stripper this stuff has been doing the rounds on the forums for years https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heavy-Duty-Industrial-Strength-Synstryp-1-Litre-Paint-Stripper-1L/202374029201?hash=item2f1e6e9f91:g:EmgAAOSwaTtdvWAo

It's good for stripping steel wheels etc and PPE should definitely be worn.

[dozeydustman]

51 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

True, the National dash was a brilliant example of minimalist industrial design, even if the warning lights are nigh on invisible in direct sunlight.  Think in that time period though it was the exception rather than the rule.

 

The National I used to drive when I was in Kent had little cowls over the warning lights as fitted on the left bank on the dash above. Whether standard or not I don’t know. The later Titan B15 dash was an evolution where the warning lights were repositioned to make them more visible.

Anyhoo, sorry for the diversion talk about cranky old PSV instruments. The woodwork is looking great fella.

[Zelandeth]

The Titan moved the old style round warning lights up to the top of the panel where they then stayed right through the later model Tigers/Leopards and into the Olympian when they switched to the rectangular Lucas parts bin warning lights didn't they?  Demonstrated for us here by E131DRS.

The battery was nearly flat, hence the tachograph having a fit.

The preservation team out at Alford did a lovely job there, I still like the 80s version of the green and cream GRT livery.

While it's a totally different palette, I do enjoy how much the current First livery borrows graphically from this scheme.

There were a pair of Titans used on a school run relatively close to where I used to stay, still irked I never managed to get a proper look at them.

For those wondering what we are on about regarding the nicely integrated Bedford instrumentation... here's a nice clean example courtesy of VPR17X snapped at a show a few years back.

If memory serves, the ignition/no charge lamp which started the random tangent is immediately to the right of the large central warning light at the bottom of the cluster.  Which given it's probably fifteen years since I last sat behind the wheel of one is rather sad to think I can remember nonsense like that...

Never apologise for dragging this thread off topic...the off topic rambles are often the most interesting bits.

On topic...

The offside air vent surround and the glove box lid have now been stripped back and are waiting their turn to be resprayed tomorrow.

I'll be finding bits of this stuff for years.

 

[dozeydustman]

Having never been behind the wheel of anything newer than 83/4 A-reg when it comes to buses, all the other Leyland machinery have driven (which isn’t much) had had this instrument configuration.

I think the National 2 used this gauge and light arrangement, the two Titans and early Olympian I have driven certainly did. All ex-LT stock so there may be variances for individual operators.

It has been 5+ years since I last drove a bus. All semi-auto. Would love to get my hands on an Ailsa, especially a screaming on with an SCG 5-speeder

 

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, dozeydustman said:

I think the National 2 used this gauge and light arrangement, the two Titans and early Olympian I have driven certainly did. All ex-LT stock so there may be variances for individual operators

 

Yep, National 2 used the same setup of the Olympian etc you've shown there.  Got a whole set of those warning lights from a scrapped in the past and have used them in a few random locations over the years.

[Zelandeth]

Glove box lid and offside air vent surround have had their first three coats of lacquer today.

Will probably get the same again tomorrow then be ready to be refitted.

In other news, I appear to have an oil leak from somewhere.  Have noticed a bit of a whiff of burning oil when parking up the last day or two, but there's evidence of oil spatter on the back of the car too.

No levels have dropped and I certainly couldn't see an obvious source at a quick glance - though given the ridiculous capacities of most things on this car it will have to drop quite a lot for it to show up on dipsticks!

I'll have a closer look tomorrow.  I know both cam cover gaskets are weeping a bit, so that will be the first thing to look at carefully.

 

[egg]

What is the oil capacity on this Zel? And what grade is it meant to run on? Thanks.

[Zelandeth]

36 minutes ago, egg said:

What is the oil capacity on this Zel? And what grade is it meant to run on? Thanks.

10.7 litres of 10W/40 or 15W/40 looks like according to the handbook.

[PhilA]

Hot damn, that takes more than the boat-anchor bolted into mine. I'm guessing it has large filters and an oil cooler for the engine to add capacity also.

[J-T]

Those veneers are looking loads better!

[mrbenn]

I must say I'm quite taken with the work you've carried out on this car so far. Taking a good example towards being a brilliant example.

What you've achieved on the interior lighting and trim is amazing. This is the difference between and "enthusiast" and an "owner".

Top stuff, 15/10.

[Zelandeth]

I'd definitely like to think that despite the lack of a garage for it to live in that the car has landed in a decent place.  Plans for it were always very dependent on how I gelled with it or not.  As it is I find myself rather liking it, so there are decent odds on it sticking around for a while.

This morning a little parcel arrived containing the replacement switches.

Not hard to spot the difference.

The other two have a little bit of crazing in the lenses but nothing that sticks out so badly so I'll keep my eyes peeled for a hazard and interior light 2 switch turning up cheap.  I'm guessing these are prone to cracking like this based on the mental prices that new ones seem to be advertised at on eBay.  I don't care how special you think it is..I ain't paying £75 for a switch!

Second task was reinstating the glove compartment lid...

How much better does that dash look now?

Then having a hunt for the oil leak.

Engine oil level hasn't visibly moved on the dipstick...

(Reads slightly high due to the slope of our drive).

Nor has the ATF, which is slightly overfilled if anything.

The power steering fluid is on the "Add" mark, but hasn't moved since the car arrived here.

Looking underneath the car didn't immediately reveal anything obvious.  The marks on the ground were from where oil has dropped from the exhaust fasteners and heat shields.

The complexity of the rear suspension of this car is quite something.  It's one thing seeing diagrams etc...but actually seeing a car with two sets of springs on each side is still quite something else.

There were two areas I was immediately drawn to.  The first was the rear of the left hand cylinder bank, as I knew there was visible evidence of that can cover leaking.

Looks like that flare nut on the A/C line to the expansion valve needs some attention too as that is visibly oily which usually means refrigerant leak.

The other area that's obviously oily is the front end of the right hand bank.  While these areas are only, neither looked wet enough to explain the degree of splatter on the back of the car I'd seen.

A common area to cause issues are the pipes to/from the front mounted oil cooler...which looks absolutely disgusting, but in half an hour of the engine running didn't produce a single actual drip...so I think a thorough session with the degreaser and pressure washer might be in order here to pin down where this is coming from.

So definitely attention needed there but I'm pretty sure it isn't the main issue.

Having a dig around did reveal a horrific mess below the brake servo though due to the small fluid leak spotted earlier.

That will want cleaning up sooner rather than later.

Eventually after the engine had been running for about 30 minutes I spotted a fresh drip on the driveway away over on the far side of the car.

Closer look revealed this definitely to.be engine oil.

This is right to the rear end of the left cylinder bank, and looking up from by that exhaust flange shows this assembly up there...

Which is the far end of the lines to the oil cooler.

My guess is we've got a failed seal in there which is allowing oil to be forced out at higher engine speeds.

Given this is a bit of a pig to get to without a ramp I may well chuck this at my local garage to sort as it shouldn't really be too bad a job on a four post lift.  I'll probably just get a set of seals for everything involved here so I've got everything necessary in hand.

 

[Broadsword]

Oh boy is it packed in that engine bay. At least it’s a very minor leak.

[Zelandeth]

Yeah...you wouldn't have thought that given how long the bonnet is that the space under it could be so densely packed!

Only a quick update today.  I discovered yesterday that half the interior lights weren't working in the Jag.  This happening immediately after I changed one of the switches involved seemed far too much of a coincidence, so I took a closer look.  Sure enough, they're different.  The new switch only be four pins on the back rather than six on the old one.  So I switched over the cap from the old and new switches and put everything back together.  Problem solved.

I've also painted the area behind the switches alongside the trip computer black for now.  I will be looking for some veneer offcuts to rebuild the wood trim here in due course, but this looks better than the cracked, warped mess that was there for the time being.

The distributor breather air filter has also been swapped for something a little more standard looking.

The red anodised thing would have looked at home on my Suzuki Cappuccino...not so much on a Jag.

[richardmorris]

Do you know why the old switches seem to be prone to cracking up?

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, richardmorris said:

Do you know why the old switches seem to be prone to cracking up?

Nothing definitive.  My guess though is that it's at least partly down to the lens only being held in around the edges, so if you press it by the middle of will flex a little.  Old age and/or the wrong type of cleaning solutions will probably make them more brittle.  Just know that between that I've seen them in similar states in several scrap cars and the price folks seem to be asking for them on eBay I have to guess it's pretty common.

They're odd switches...the connector attaches to the side rather than back of it and the illumination is totally external to the switch.  There's just a light sitting next to it which shines into the switch through a slot in the body.  Only other car I've seen with a similar setup was on a Lada Samara.

[Noel Tidybeard]

maestro/montego/metro all had switches with a window for night illumination (green/orange) and a bulb (yellow sleeve) in the wiring connector which fits though a hole to signal on status

early maestro had 5/6 switch cluster lit by 2 bulbs

[Zelandeth]

This afternoon involved a lot of standing around and waiting.

To put in perspective how much oil is in this engine...this much.

What came out wasn't that disgusting but it was definitely well due a change.  The fact that I had to resort to mechanical assistance to remove the oil filler cap tends to suggest it's not been off for a while!

The oil filter is not the most inaccessible one I've ever encountered...but is close.  It would be dead easy if the left hand exhaust down pipe wasn't directly underneath it.

No access whatsoever from above!

 That circular thing you can just see through the gap is the top of the filter housing.

WhileI was waiting for the oil to drain I took the opportunity to check all the other levels, especially coolant.  Glad to report it's not moved at all since it was topped up.

Did spot something which will need to be remedied before I try to reinstate the air conditioning...jubilee clips aren't normally classed as suitable fasteners for HVAC systems!  This is on the high pressure side of the system too.  At least it's nice and easily accessible to replace.

Should imagine getting one made up by Pirtek will be an order of magnitude cheaper than buying an off the shelf one made specifically for the XJS.