Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 19/04 - HVAC Preemptive Investigation...

[Zelandeth]

You couldn't make this stuff up.

You know I just sold a W123?  Well this just dropped through my door yesterday evening.

I've precisely zero real interest in getting involved myself unless it's very cheap and looks like it could be a quick fix, MOT and pass on (assuming there's no strangeness about "oh my son has the documents" or the like), but as it's been off the road since 2016 I very much doubt it.  Obviously if there's any sort of questions over whether it's theirs to sell I'll be out of there no question in seconds.  I've got stuck in the middle of one of those disputes before and I've zero interest in repeating it.

Given the value of these cars if it didn't need major work it would be on the road.  Plus they can rust for the country even before you start throwing bespoke made bodywork at them.

I've offered to take an objective look at the car for them and potentially pass the details on to anyone who I think might be interested, hopefully steering them away from Cartakeback etc if they've been considering such things.

I'm pretty much expecting to find a bulkhead made of rust though and 35 years of bodges having been holding various systems together since it fell into private hands...God help us if it's ever been a wedding car...

 

In more normal fleet news, these finally arrived for the Caddy.  Actually arrived the morning we set off for Glasgow, but I was understandably focused on other matters at the time and just remembered the box was sitting by the front door this morning.

These are the top mounting blocks for the radiator.  Odd setup, but they locate into the top of the radiator and a bolt then runs down through the slam panel into the well on the top of the block, trapping the radiator.  It's all a bit odd and I imagine is designed with deformation in mind for crash safety.  The blocks in this case we're both long gone and the radiator was floating around held in only by the pipework.

With it properly mounted you can see how far it had dropped back.

The top radiator hose was previously rubbing on the fan shroud.

Good couple of inches clearance now.

On the other side the shroud had cut a deep gouge into this air conditioning line.

Over an inch clearance there now too.

I'm not 100% convinced it's going to stay put so I'll need to keep an eye on it.  Whole setup just feels a bit flimsy to me.  Though I guess there is just an element of modern car design there, 

This is how they sit once in place with the bolt tightened down.

Just looks like something is missing to me!

[Six-cylinder]

4 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

You couldn't make this stuff up.

You know I just sold a W123?  Well this just dropped through my door yesterday evening.

I've precisely zero real interest in getting involved myself unless it's very cheap and looks like it could be a quick fix, MOT and pass on (assuming there's no strangeness about "oh my son has the documents" or the like), but as it's been off the road since 2016 I very much doubt it.  Obviously if there's any sort of questions over whether it's theirs to sell I'll be out of there no question in seconds.  I've got stuck in the middle of one of those disputes before and I've zero interest in repeating it.

Given the value of these cars if it didn't need major work it would be on the road.  Plus they can rust for the country even before you start throwing bespoke made bodywork at them.

I've offered to take an objective look at the car for them and potentially pass the details on to anyone who I think might be interested, hopefully steering them away from Cartakeback etc if they've been considering such things.

I'm pretty much expecting to find a bulkhead made of rust though and 35 years of bodges having been holding various systems together since it fell into private hands...God help us if it's ever been a wedding car.

Its got to be worth the conversation and a look if that goes well!

[richardmorris]

5 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Its got to be worth the conversation and a look if that goes well!

We can all see your brain cogs moving!

[Six-cylinder]

2 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

We can all see your brain cogs moving!

You could get a lot of chips in there for a FoD chip shop run!

[Zelandeth]

Aye, I've arranged to drop by on Wednesday afternoon to have a look at it.  The messages exchanged were actually in both coherent and polite English which is always a pleasant surprise.  Sounds like the guy who had originally planned to restore it will also be there so that should give me a bit of an insight into what the barriers they see to it returning to the road (or indeed what took it off the road).

Of course one of the big questions I've not even touched on yet is what sort of money they're likely to be after for it.  I suspect the answer to that question will render me out of the picture pretty quickly.  Though I already am I reckon as I have no room for another car, as with the BX this would fill no particular role in the fleet so while it has alure (c'mon, who wouldn't*want* to buy it?), the answer from me has to be no!  One of the big decisions I made this year was that everything on fleet had to have a specific purpose, and that was one of the reasons I made the decision to move the Jag on, and jumped at the opportunity to pick up the Caddy.

This year's resurrection project slot is already claimed by the Cavalier.

[Six-cylinder]

It is good to look because one day you will find a gem.

Extended limousines are not my favourite either, but it does not look bad in the photo..

[Crackers]

3 hours ago, richardmorris said:

We can all see your brain cogs moving!

Don't let him get any ideas about a chauffeur-driven executive limousine to ferry him from the house to the field... 

[LightBulbFun]

ooooh I am very much looking forward to seeing how this turns out!  

I wonder if you could graft the estate rear end onto one of these for maximum practicality points and make the German equivalent of a Checker Areobus...

[timolloyd]

The Mercedes has to be worth a look, if only to see the 8 series behind it.

[Zelandeth]

I'm curious to see it.  I think there are quite a few estate bits already there.  The roof edging trim I think is straight off the estate, and I reckon the rear door started out off one and was then modified.

It'll be a properly long old barge though.  Photos don't ever do it justice, but even the normal estate is already up there length wise.  Trying to park it in crowded car parks could be challenging enough.  Hard to tell from a photo but it doesn't look like it's any shorter than the van.  

At least I'm hoping to see slightly better build quality than on the last limo I looked at for someone.  That was an early 80s Lincoln and my advice to them was run away, run as fast as you can.  It was in absolutely fine shape save for the conversion having seemingly having been done on a budget of approximately $0.32.  The quality of the workmanship on the chassis and drivetrain extension was frankly laughable...how it hadn't snapped in half when it was new was beyond me, much less after 30 years of use.  I seem to remember discovering that the floor for the rear passenger area was pop riveted to the frame to name one horror I found.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Zelandeth
Correcting autocorrect

[Crackers]

8 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

It'll be a properly long old barge though. 

5355mm long, according to automobile-catalog.com. How true that is, I don't know, but it sounds plausible.

8 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

At least I'm hoping to see slightly better build quality than on the last limo I looked at for someone. 

At least these were done by the factory so there's a glimmer of hope that it might've been done to standard approaching "proper".

[HMC]

Will be interesting to find out more about the 123. Somehow those Lwb versions to my eyes are less pulling up to a posh hotel in glamour but more being a dust covered Lebanese taxi. I always remember a few on the news during those western hostage situations in the 80s.

[Zelandeth]

This afternoon I had arranged to take a look at that W123 limo for the owner.  I was offering nothing beyond an impartial and to my knowledge reasonable appraisal.

My initial reaction on pulling up was "Oh she's crusty."

Though after a bit of a walk round and a bit of a crawl around underneath I've realised she's far less of a lost cause than I initially thought.  Let's list the grot.

I Had Concerns about the bulkhead on account of this.

Given the state of the screen surround I was expecting to find that I could poke holes straight through into the cabin.  However much to my surprise it looks to be sound, both sides.   No amount of poking or prodding resulted in that sickening "scrunch" any owner of cars this age have come to dread.

Offside:

Nearside:

I was really surprised about that.  I've seen really tidy looking 123s with holes in there.  I did peel quite a bit of the crusty seam sealer off and the metal under it was solid.

Bottom of both B pillars is shot.

This is probably the worst rust on the car in my opinion.  Basically because of the amount of disassembly is needed to sort it.

Offside outer sill needs some love around the jacking point.

I suspect that hole will be a lot bigger before sound metal is found, though it felt more solid than I'd expected to be honest.

Floorpan seems absolutely fine, couldn't see anything crusty around the suspension mounts etc, underside looks astonishingly fresh aside from one bit on the bottom of the spare wheel well...

...and this odd looking patch behind the rear wheel.  Possibly an old repair?  It seems solid enough though.

Both inner front arches probably need some remedial work, though I wasn't able to poke any holes by hand - I'll make sure I have an MOT tester sized hammer next time.  Not really the worst job to fix as there's not much in the way.  Keep in mind the wings are bolted on so they can come off to improve access.

Offside:

Nearside:

Good bits of the bodywork...

Fuel filler is spotless.

That grotty looking bit where the trim has come away?  Hole through the pillar where the fastener has pulled out?  Nope, the screw itself has snapped.

Rear screen surround where I've seen quite a few of these go is spotless.

I *haven't* had the boot open yet as the lock is jammed, and I didn't have good access to mess with it as she's parked about an inch from the car behind.  We'll come back to that.

Oh, and there's the all important flag pole socket.

The engine bay is grubby but very free of bodgery.

Radiator still had spotless green coolant in.  Oil needs a change and smells a bit fully but I've seen worse.  You remember the mess under the rocker cover on my S123?  Take a look at this for a contrast.

How clean is that for a 115K mile engine?  

ATF is spotlessly clean too.  

I wanted to spin the engine over to see if it would build oil pressure (hence the jump leads in the earlier photos).  She only went and bloody started!  ...and immediately started peeing fuel out of a perished line on the side of the carb.  Fair enough, I hadn't been planning on engine running tests so hadn't checked anything like that!  No knocking or anything even the moment it fired, and the oil pressure gauge pinged up to max immediately as we would expect.  However we also had it immediately shown that the exhaust doesn't appear to be connected to the engine.  She definitely seems to want to live though.

Can't believe the carb was working well enough for her to fire up and that the fuel pump wasn't totally gummed up.  The carb is bloody huge by the way.  Don't have a photo of it, but it's a stinking great for barrel job that's wider than my hand of the sort of size I'm more used to seeing on huge great American V8s.  I guess one thing in our favour is that she was laid up before ethanol was in all fuels...I suspect if it had been a year or two later we'd have got nowhere near as far as this.

Now the really, really sad bit though which could scupper everything.

Spotted it?

Look closer.

Yep.  The reason this car came off the road originally is that some bastards nicked it to break for parts.  The car was recovered before they got far through stripping anything, having only taken the seats apart in the back.  However they made a bloody mess getting into the steering lock.

They also smashed one of the limo specific windows.

Though as you can see, by some miracle the owner managed to get hold of a replacement.  If I don't do anything else I'll get that installed to get the car weatherproof again.

I think that film has actually been doing a good job of keeping the weather out as the upholstery is in fine shape and there was only a little bit of water in the footwell, no rust or mould which would point at long term damp issues.

While it's in bits all of the rear seating is there i think so just needs bolting back together.

This car definitely has lived an easy life until the last few years, there's very little sign of wear and tear inside.

Lovely finding original touches like this still there.

Barely run in.

Yes, the bastards who stole it managed to smash the face of the instrument cluster as well while they were making a total hash of stealing the car.

Being an earlier one than mine the centre console doesn't have the veneer.

Yes, I want to know what the green switch does.

The air conditioning definitely still has gas in, though I'm sure it will need to be recharged - and I'll bet this is still running R22 (or maybe even R12!) so will need to be converted.  On the "plus" side, the dash needs to come out anyway...

That dash damage is a big problem.  Mechanical parts are generally not too bad to get hold of for 123s for the most part.  However bits of trim and the like are eye-wateringly expensive.  So finding another full dash moulding, in the right colour is likely to cost a packet.  Plus it's also (and I have pulled one of these apart in a scrap yard to get the heater box out) an absolutely HORRIBLE job to get the dash out of one of these.  Merc went to great lengths to try to make sure things didn't creak, rattle etc and they didn't envisage it ever needing to come apart in the life of the car.  So it's Not A Fun Job.  It took me a whole afternoon, and that was in a car which had been rolled and where I didn't care about breaking things.  Getting it out without damaging bits of the rest of the interior (I think I ended up kicking the windscreen out) and then getting things back together will be a bloody nightmare.

So my assessment of what she needs sorting for an MOT.

[] OSR outer sill holed.

[] Both B pillars holed at the base.

[] Both inner arches corroded near enough to the shock towers to be a fail.

[] Tyres are perished.

[] Handbrake has been on since 2016...Plan on overhauling the whole brake system.

[] Exhaust rear downpipe is missing about a foot of pipe between the downpipe and collector.

[] Fuel leak at carb.

[] The MOT history mentions issues with the wipers...so given they're sitting halfway up the screen figure that needs to be rebuilt.

[] Attack the dash with a hammer and enough duct tape to get rid of all the sharp edges.

[] New front reg plate as it's delaminated.

Additional you'd want to do:

[] Rust around windscreen surround needs sorted.

[] Nearside rear wheel arch is crusty.

[] Bootlid currently doesn't open.

[] A million vacuum lines no doubt need changing.

[] Goodness only knows what electrical systems work/don't.

I'm going to arrange to visit again with more time and some tools.  My target then will be simple:

[] Sort the fuel leak so we can run the engine for more than 20 seconds.  That should allow us to do a test on what systems on the car work and don't.  Should hopefully also allow us to move it forward so I can have a bash at getting into the boot and to move it out from the fence so I can see the nearside properly.  Oh, and see if the SLS works, or is going to flood the driveway with hydraulic fluid.

[] Install the replacement rear window to get the car weatherproof again.

So yeah...bit of a mixed bag.  She can definitely be saved, not a hopeless spares only job.  However there's an alarming amount of hours work needed there.  If you're looking at it pragmatically you'd absolutely break it for spares as that will no doubt be worth several times what the car is in running order.  I could be wrong, but I imagine it's probably actually worth less than a normal W123 250E would be because the limo is going to appeal to a smaller audience.  

There's nothing I found today that's specifically a show stopper, probably the biggest headache is actually the damage to the dash.

I don't know.  If I had no other projects on the go I actually would have been tempted to give it a shot.  As it stands though, I do...I already have the Cavalier incoming and really want to reduce the fleet size by one.  Time aside this could be a fair money pit too...full set of brakes, tyres, front exhaust, dash, I could see a parts bill easily into four figures.  I think it's just too much of a project for me to be taking on on my own.  Aside from the fact it's six metres long!

At the very least we can hopefully get it weatherproof, secure and movable in the short term.  

Will probably offer to give it a wash too as getting rid of the moss would make the car look a lot less sad.

[LightBulbFun]

Ooh! its a shame you dont have the space for it because given the issues it has this is very much a vehicle that could do with your methodical method of vehicle fixing  

(for one the million and 1 vacuum hoses, I sadly dont see many people being willing to actual sort those properly like I know you would do!)

its a shame about the dashboard id be happy to just slap some duct tape on and live with, I mean I have seen/could be worse!

(note the multicoloured seat for @Mrs6C  )

 

my main worry would be the rust because that I can see becoming a bit of a weldathon,

I say that  going by how many projects I have seen on here that are started/bought with the thought of "oh thats only a small bit of rust that will be nice weekend Job" so they poke it and suddenly Poof 3 weeks have passed they have rebuilt 80% of the body shell, only for the 1 sill that was not replace/touched because it looked fine, to fall off in a cloud of filler dust and old news papers after they finally declare the job finished

(see also any vehicle that  @GingerNuttz or @SiC come into contact with, must be some sort of Autoshite curse I tell Ye!)

 

with that said, I do hope someone (read: you!  ) here does do the irresponsible thing and saves it, would make for an awesome rival thread and smoking about in old diplomatic limo is pretty Autoshite  

[PhilA]

Now I want to know what the green switch does, too.

[Zelandeth]

19 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Ooh! its a shame you dont have the space for it because given the issues it has this is very much a vehicle that could do with your methodical method of vehicle fixing  

(for one the million and 1 vacuum hoses, I sadly dont see many people being willing to actual sort those properly like I know you would do!)

its a shame about the dashboard id be happy to just slap some duct tape on and live with, I mean I have seen/could be worse!

(note the multicoloured seat for @Mrs6C  )

 

my main worry would be the rust because that I can see becoming a bit of a weldathon,

I say that  going by how many projects I have seen on here that are started/bought with the thought of "oh thats only a small bit of rust that will be nice weekend Job" so they poke it and suddenly Poof 3 weeks have passed they have rebuilt 80% of the body shell, only for the 1 sill that was not replace/touched because it looked fine, to fall off in a cloud of filler dust and old news papers after they finally declare the job finished

(see also any vehicle that  @GingerNuttz or @SiC come into contact with, must be some sort of Autoshite curse I tell Ye!)

 

with that said, I do hope someone (read: you!  ) here does do the irresponsible thing and saves it, would make for an awesome rival thread and smoking about in old diplomatic limo is pretty Autoshite  

It doesn't look to me like the bodywork has seen much work before, so I don't think there's going to be inch thick filler to contend with at least.  These were actually made by Mercedes as I understand it rather than converted by a third party so the overall build is a lot better than many stretched cars.  

The rust in the sills and B pillars isn't the end of the world.  Repair panels for those areas look to be relatively readily available so it's just time really.  I don't think the whole sills are shot, just repairs needed in a few places.

One of the big headaches also to keep in mind though if looking at getting it to someone to do bodywork...you have to GET it to them...and it's SIX METRES long, and as such won't fit on quite a lot of transporters, no idea what it weighs either.

At least the rust generally is in quite well isolated pockets so it would be possible to go around just tackling each bit one at a time rather than having to take 3/4 of the car apart all at once.  It's definitely not a weekend job though...each individual item on the list might be though.

Oh, look... we've accounted for about six months just like that!

The damage to the dash is a Biggie for me though.  While I'll put up with cars being a bit careworn outside I'm picky about the interior as that's the bit of the car I see the most!  Changing that is a lot of work.  Plus you need to source replacement parts (dash itself, instrument panel, ignition barrel and steering lock) which aren't going to be cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to spend a while wafting around in it, but with other commitments already in place my hands are a bit tied.  I'm also painfully aware of how much of a rabbit hole projects like this can end up being.

[bobdisk]

That green switch wouldn't be an aircon switch? It looks like a foreign switch fitted into a hole blank, (like the one to its right.)  Perhaps to replace a broken switch.  It has a light in it. I cannot see an aircon switch with the heater controls. What is that blue "variable resistor" to the right?

[barrett]

I have an excellent idea

Seems like this one would have been a good engine donor for your old one. Bad timing I guess.

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, barrett said:

I have an excellent idea

Seems like this one would have been a good engine donor for your old one. Bad timing I guess.

In think the words "over my dead body" apply there!  I'd sooner get skinned alive by the family for taking it on than see it meet that fate.  Not least because even if the car can't be saved, there are a lot of good parts (including a bunch of body panels) which could be used to help keep others going.  Drivetrain very much included if it's half as fresh as initial impressions suggest.

I'm really hoping we can get it going properly next week so I can move it away from the fence to get a better look at the nearside of the underbody, though oddly that side has actually looked better from what I could see.  I'm guessing it was usually parked with that side more sheltered as I'm more used to the nearside being worse as it gets the worst of the road spray.

[Zelandeth]

Finally!

That took a month and three days to get here.  Probably take me even longer to get around to fitting it...

[Zelandeth]

Okay, let's look at some numbers for that Mercedes for the sake of curiousity and to ensure that I thoroughly scare myself off it.

Entries marked # are guesses as actual figures weren't immediately available from 30 seconds of web searching.

[] Tyres: £350 (though I do need to confirm exactly what size are actually on it).

[] Repair panels for sills & B pillar bases (annoyingly I couldn't immediately find one for the scuttle panel): £200.

[] Welding sundries & tools: £100.

[] Brakes (discs, pads, calipers - obviously depending on luck the calipers may be OK or can be overhauled): £425 (155/270).

[] Exhaust front section: £400. # (Haven't been able to find one that looks like what's on the car, so suspect I would have to get it made up - on the plus side it's about 80% stainless already).

[] Fuel lines: £30.

[] Carb overhaul kit: £50 #

[] Windscreen wiper linkage & motor: £75.

[] Battery: £80.

[] Upper Dashboard Assembly: £300.

[] Instrument panel: £100.

[] Ignition barrel: £150.

[] Standard service items: £100.

[] I can probably come up with another £200 or so of misc just with nonsense like windscreen wiper blades, bulbs, exhaust rubbers, bits of vacuum line, brake flexi hoses if needed in seconds.

So where does that put us?

£2560 and counting.  A.k.a. "Why you see so many cars advertised as half-finished projects, when someone realised after jumping in head first how much it will actually cost to finish."

Plus this is missing two potentially important numbers as well.  The first of these of course is that we've not even *mentioned* price with the seller.  If they're wanting anything really beyond scrap value that's game over I'd think.  Also...IF, and that's still a big IF I were to go ahead with this, I've still got to get the damned thing here - and at five metres plus change I imagine it's too big to fit on a lot of trailers/smaller flatbed transporters.  Which is particularly a frustrating one given the thing is less than three miles away.  Anyone who has ever done anything like this will know full well that no matter how carefully you think that you've budgeted for things that the end result usually ends up being the best part of double what you'd originally guessed.  At least I've always found that to be the case!

It's also making a few big assumptions.  One of which is that the SLS is going to behave itself after sitting dormant for six years - if not you can easily blow another £500 overhauling that.  Likewise I'm assuming based on how clean the top end looks and hearing it run for 20 seconds with one exhaust header not connected to the rest of the system that the engine is healthy.  Gearbox likewise based on how clean the fluid looked.  I guess the plus side we have here is that we do know why the car was parked up - and it wasn't due to a mechanical failure, it was due to the damage done when it was stolen.  So we don't have any particular reason to cast doubt on the state of the drivetrain.

It's a bit tricky to put a value on it being a bit of an oddball.  My guess though is that it's never going to be worth more than somewhere around 70% of what a standard 250E saloon in the same sort of spec would be, and their values unless you're looking at absolutely mint examples haven't gone nearly as stratospheric as the estates.  So I reckon with the rust sorted, it properly recommissioned and a fresh MOT it's probably a five grand car.  So it really doesn't make much logical sense as a project.  By far the most sensible fate for this car would be for it to be broken for parts as there's definitely some decent coin to be made there.  There are a lot of decent panels on the body, the brightwork is all present and in good shape and aside from the dash itself, the interior is pretty much immaculate, plus the drivetrain at least on a very quick assessment shows all the signs of being healthy.  You're probably near enough at the market value of the car there alone, even before you've weighed in what's left, which given it probably weighs as much as a small country is probably worth a few quid too.

It does have some plus points as a project though.  Not least that the bits which are generally hard and/or expensive to get hold of (which is mostly trim, brightwork and silly little things you'd not generally think about) are actually all present and correct here.  In a lot of ways it's in far better shape than the S123 which was just moved on - and if the overall bodywork and interior on that was a tidy as this one is I'd most likely have gone ahead with replacing the engine in it, as this one once the obvious issues are sorted will actually be a really tidy car.  100% of the welding I've found it needs so far as well is on areas of the car you can readily get to without having to be crawling under it - though the bit on the spare wheel well probably does make sense to do from underneath as it will be far neater that way.

Am I still half considering it?  Of course I bloody am.

With the world going to hell in a handbasket at the moment I've been taking quite a serious look at my plans for this year, and I think having one primary project to focus on is something that I really need.  During Covid exploding into the world and the first lockdown happening, getting the kitchen rebuilt in the van very much saved my sanity I think as it was one thing I was able to just shut off the outside world and focus on for a few hours at a time.

I'm also keeping something in mind here which is a bit illogical but does steer me a bit.  Pretty much all of the cars I've owned that have been my favourites (the Invacar is the one immediate exception that springs to mind) have all been the ones that I absolutely didn't go out looking for and ended up with completely unexpectedly.  Whereas many of the ones which turned into ungrateful moneypits were the cars that I had actively sought out when I bought them.

Also...C'mon...Look at it.  It's not the sort of thing I'm going to get another chance at is it?  If I pass this one up, it'll inevitably be a decision that I regret for ever more, irrespective of how much logical sense it makes.

 

Decision still hasn't been made though.  Several things still need to happen before we get there.

I need to revisit it with a few tools, some fresh fuel and a notepad in hand. 

-> Find out what the seller wants for it.  That's a big question mark.

-> I want to hear the engine actually run for more than thirty seconds, though this obviously does depend somewhat on what shape the carb is in. 

-> Confirm that the gearbox actually still provides drive in both directions.

-> Hopefully move it out away from the fence so I can get a better look at the nearside.  It's hard to really assess things when you've got about a foot and a half of space to work with.

-> Actually go over the car methodically from end to end and write down everything that I spot that needs replacement/repair as I'm absolutely sure there's a bunch of stuff I've missed.  Make sure it's categorised as "must be done" or "would be nice to have fixed" too.

-> IF the results of that doesn't put me off, see if I can find somewhere to tuck the Cavalier away out the weather until next year unless someone steps up and wants to buy it.  I'd still really like to get to that so my default stance at the moment is see if I can find somewhere for it - though I know that's a big ask in our area as storage is at a huge premium and is vastly oversubscribed.

-> Make a concerted effort to move the BX on - though I really need to do this anyway as I've pretty much decided that I've done as much as I really want to with it and am very unlikely to summon the enthusiasm to drop the rear subframe to change the hydraulic lines laying on my back on the lawn.

-> Find out what it would cost to get it transported here.

...Then procrastinate for another week or two before probably tossing a coin to make the decision.

[LightBulbFun]

is it wrong that as I was reading this as you where saying you where considering it I was going "Yesss" in my best Palpatine impression?  

I know it would be fairly costly to recommission but I would throughly enjoy reading about it!  

as a side note I do love how, you thought to yourself "oh id like a 123 but I think the boat has sailed on them being obtainable" and now not only have you had an Estate S123, but now you are being offered a I think V123 is the chassis code for a Limo? LOL  

 

 

on getting it moved, whats the maximum length your allowed to A frame something? 

*cough* @Talbot *cough*

[Zelandeth]

5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

is it wrong that as I was reading this as you where saying you where considering it I was going "Yesss" in my best Palpatine impression?  

I know it would be fairly costly to recommission but I would throughly enjoy reading about it!  

as a side note I do love how, you thought to yourself "oh id like a 123 but I think the boat has sailed on them being obtainable" and now not only have you had an Estate S123, but now you are being offered a I think V123 is the chassis code for a Limo? LOL  

 

 

on getting it moved, whats the maximum length your allowed to A frame something? 

*cough* @Talbot *cough*

I have to admit that I'm just kind of "meh" on the saloon.  They've just never held the same attraction to me as the estates.  In the same breath, they're also a bit more obtainable as their values haven't gone nearly as stupid - I'm guessing because the estate as with that variant in all marques (okay, excepting oddball things like the Lynx Eventer) tended to live harder lives as a practical tool so tended to wind up worked to death more than the others.  Clear as day if you've ever gone looking for a Xantia estate - hatches weren't hard to find, but the only estates I found when I was looking were all absolutely hanging onto life by a thread.

I would want it transported wheels up really.  Biggest concern is the tyres.  I didn't look too closely at the time but they weren't a brand I'd ever heard of to start with, and have been sitting since 2016 and I've no idea how old they were even then.  Given how heavy this thing is that's not an area where you want to be taking chances.  You'd also want the engine running to ensure the gearbox oil pump was spinning - and given the exhaust situation it's kind of loud currently!

To be fair, it's not THAT long.  It's basically a standard estate but with a saloon rear end grafted on where the tailgate would normally be, so about a metre longer than the standard car I think.  The figure I've seen quoted is 5355mm - so it's pretty much on par with a Rolls Royce.  It's bloody long for a car, but not stupidly so.

 

There were a lot more of these made than you'd think (about 13,000 covering all varieties), but there surely can't be many left now.  The fact that this one has been messed about with so little and hasn't ended up run into the ground as either a taxi or wedding car is one of the things which make it stand out from a lot of them I feel.

[Six-cylinder]

I found this one, the text in the description says first to see will buy.  £6995. The market must be tiny for these and I would be surprised if they get anything close to that.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114945168476?hash=item1ac344145c:g:rXAAAOSwu~BhljrT

The car you have found needs an awful lot of work so my advice would be to ask yourself do you really want it?

You have the BX and Cavalier project cars, then your VW, Invacar and Motorhome to maintain. If you ever want something different to drive or tinker with or save just pick something from my fleet to borrow.

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

The car you have found needs an awful lot of work so my advice would be to ask yourself do you really want it?

You have the BX and Cavalier project cars, then your VW, Invacar and Motorhome to maintain. 

this sounds far too sensible from you!

25 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

 If you ever want something different to drive or tinker with or save just pick something from my fleet to borrow.

ahh there we go!  (im still voting for the Bedford CF! or the JCB, or obviously both the AC and the Invacar at the FoD! )

25 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

I found this one, the text in the description says first to see will buy.  £6995. The market must be tiny for these and I would be surprised if they get anything close to that.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114945168476?hash=item1ac344145c:g:rXAAAOSwu~BhljrT

 

yeah but that one has head lamp wipers so is it really comparable to the one Zel is eying up? I think @dollywobbler would say not!

 

on a slightly more serious side note I did not realise these Limos had 2 rows of rear seats, would make them somewhat good family transport for well @dollywobbler or @brownnova  

although I have to say the seat-backs on the middle row of rear seats do not look that comfy!

[Six-cylinder]

13 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah but that one has head lamp wipers so is it really comparable to the one Zel is eying up? I think @dollywobbler would say not!

I like headlight wipers on a Mercedes, I wish the estate had them.

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

I found this one, the text in the description says first to see will buy.  £6995. The market must be tiny for these and I would be surprised if they get anything close to that.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114945168476?hash=item1ac344145c:g:rXAAAOSwu~BhljrT

The car you have found needs an awful lot of work so my advice would be to ask yourself do you really want it?

You have the BX and Cavalier project cars, then your VW, Invacar and Motorhome to maintain. If you ever want something different to drive or tinker with or save just pick something from my fleet to borrow.

That seems at least a couple of grand overpriced to me.  Especially as they even state in the and that it's been resprayed (so who knows what's hiding under there?) and has been used as a wedding car...why was it put away in 2009?  Also, black interior...seems more of a funeral wagon than wedding car.  It's been repainted white...is that a Mercedes shade?  If not good luck matching it if you need to touch anything in.  Seems to be a conspicuous absence of any halfway decent photos of either interior or exterior to me!  Who at that end of the market doesn't take two minutes to actually pull the car out through the open workshop door to get photos in daylight from more than two feet away.

I'm just immediately wary of anything that's been a wedding wagon as when I was helping at the hotel we saw a lot of them and they were some of the most shonky pieces of end-of-life crap you've ever seen.   Usually *looked* nice from ten feet, but you really didn't want to look any closer than that.

Don't know, I think the one I'm looking at seems a better bet given that while it needs work it's obvious it needs work and I didn't see any evidence of prior bodywork when I was looking at it.

What you have said makes perfect sense of course and is why I've not just jumped head first into it.  It's a very odd car.  There is a good old chunk of work needed and no small financial outlay too.

Rear seat layout is unusual, I'd just assumed the forward bench would be rear facing as that's much more common in limos.  So this is definitely intended to be an occasional seven seater.

Do I want it?  That is the big question isn't it.

[Six-cylinder]

29 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Seems to be a conspicuous absence of any halfway decent photos of either interior or exterior to me!  Who at that end of the market doesn't take two minutes to actually pull the car out through the open workshop door to get photos in daylight from more than two feet away.

Having a car behind it offended my eye so badly I had to remove it with Photoshop.

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Do I want it?  That is the big question isn't it.

of course you* do!  but how good would it be at transporting 8ft fluorescent tubes is the question currently going through my head!

(before the whole Invacar thing, my requirement for a (first) car was that no matter what it would be, that it would be capable of transporting 8ft tubes, I have clearly done well* in that regard LOL)

if you took out the rear seats, you could probably load it up with a surprising amount of stuff, while getting around the usual van restrictions places have  

(although I suspect so can the caddy... so makes it kind of redundant in that regard)

[Mrs6C]

If you did have it, it would be a superb way to transport four people, two dogs and all the luggage you could possibly need, in supreme comfort...