Rave Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Decided to have another go after having given the plusgas 20 minutes to work. Success! But now I can't get the track rod end out. The nut came loose easily but it won't come off the end. I can't figure out how to stop the bolt bit spinning, a 7mm socket goes over the end but slips off when you wind the nut up! Oh well, more googling. Getting dark now, I will have to leave it on an axle stand overnight and carry on tomorrow I think. Split_Pin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfella2 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Put a trolley jack under the track rod end and put some pressure under it, don't go mental and that should put some pressure onto the taper of the track rod end allowing you to unscrew it. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 OK trolley jacking it didn't help, and nor did trying to get hold of the stub with a pair of mole grips. I think I'm just going to have to hacksaw the bastard off and replace it. Annoyingly Euro Car Parts want 12 quid for a Starline one, whereas their offshoot Car Parts 4 Less will send me one for 7. But I kind of need it in a hurry. What's a tightwad to do? Hacksaw a slot in the top and try a screwdriver, I reckon, before giving up and grumpily chucking the 12 quid over the counter at the ECP down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 30 seconds with the grinder and Chuck a new one on. Chances are by the time you've twatted it and pissed about the joint will be fucked anyway. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'm starting to realize why the garage quoted so much for the job now! On the recommendation of a friend on another forum I went and bought myself some nut splitters from Toolstation. The larger one made short work of the TRE nut and that was soon off. So I turned my attention to the clamp on the hub holding the wishbone balljoint in. The nut came off easily enough but the bolt wasn't shifting even after some attention from a 4lb lump hammer. So I figured that I'd try spinning the bolt from the other end. Putting a spanner on and banging it with the lump hammer did nowt, so I figured I'd loosen the top brake caliper bolt and remove the bottom one and swivel it up out of the way so I could get the breaker bar on it with a 6" extender. Bear in mind that all these nuts and bolts are absolutely covered in grease from the failed CV joint boot, and my roll of kitchen towel keeps blowing away in the wind. Anyway, that didn't work because the pads wouldn't clear the lip on the disc. So reluctantly I took the caliper off the carrier, at which point the carrier fell on the floor and ejected the pads. The one saving grace is that the flexi is long enough that the caliper can just rest on the ground without straining it, I'm not sure why all cars don't work like that. So, I cracked the bolt loose with the breaker bar, at which point it finally yielded to the attentions of the lump hammer. After having given the job another 5 minute looking at, I figured that trying to lever the arm down by putting a breaker bar between it and the CV joint was a bad idea, so the disc had to come off in order that I could get the breaker bar in from that side and lever on the hub instead. I really thought that the disc retaining screw had broken my T40 Torx T-bar, but it the snap was the incredibly tight screw coming loose with a bang. The other one did the same, and with the disc off I was able to lever the hub and wishbone apart. Getting it back together will be fun I bet. Anyway, have popped inside for a coffee, a vape and a warm up before I see about getting the hub nut off (it's already been loosened) and the driveshaft free. Ah well, at least I've not broken anything yet. Still plenty of opportunity for that though I expect. The Moog and Split_Pin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Are you sure the pinch bolt hasn't sheared off? If it hasnt I'd say try drifting it out with an appropriate sized drift. Under the hub where the ball joint goes in there should be a gap, try prying it and applying some penetrating fluid in. These bottom arms can sometimes be a bit reluctant. I'd try a length of scaffold tube held against the body of the wishbone and a big fuck off hammer and smack it, if the bolt is released that should knock the joint off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Spares & Tyres Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 You could try jacking the hub up using the brake disc. Once it is as high as possible, just before the car itself starts to go up, get a long extension bar or similar and hammer down on the bottom arm. Lots of smaller taps are better than one big hit. Do this if the scaffold bar trick doesn't work sierraman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 If the nuts off, the pinch should loosen enough to pop the wishbone bottom joint bolt out. Before you go any further I'd degrease it and get all the CV grease off everything. Before you know it all the grease will end up on the pads and make for a mess to work in. Another trick you could use is soaking the pinch bolt in diesel over night. Sometimes works. I'm fairly certain either mine or D spares suggested ways will work. Good purchase in future for attempting this sort of work is an impact gun. Rusty fasteners and massive breaker bars tend to result in sheared bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 I have a Lidl impact gun. It's good enough to get wheel bolts out from fully tight, though it wouldn't touch a hub nut. It's a moot point anyway as I couldn't have got it on without getting the pad carrier out of the way. That's in the boot now with the pads, away from the grease- pads look fine, surprisingly enough. The pinch bolt was just rusted in to the hub, once I'd spun it loose with the breaker bar I knocked it out quite easily. Anyway I obviously didn't make myself very clear in the last post- because I had already got the wishbone and hub separated by levering between them with the handle end of my breaker bar. Since then I've got the driveshaft out of the hub as well. I eventually gave up for the day when I found that the CV boot is held on by a solid metal band on the inner side- easy enough to grind it off I expect, but by that point I'd had enough of the cold and buggering about. I will crack on with trying to get the new CV boot on and getting it all bolted back together tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Right, an update. Finally got back on this now it's warmed up above freezing and I've more or less recovered from a bout of man flu. The metal band ground off pretty easily with my Dremel. I did a half arsed job of trying to clean the old grease off the CV joint with kitchen towel (it wasn't full of muck anyway), then got my cone out. The kit came with two sachets of grease, apparently so that you can use one of them to lube the cone when slipping the boot over. I figured that would be incredibly messy and unnecessary when I have a can of silicone spray here, so I turned the boot inside out over the cone and then set about squirting the spray inside it. It took a few goes to get it sliding up and down freely, but I was soon at the point where I felt like it would slide over freely (I'm trying and failing to Finbarr Saunders this, here). Once I'd levered the upright slightly out of the way with my jack handle, over it went. Unfortunately the thin end hadn't ended up on the fat bit of the driveshaft where it's supposed to sit, so I buggered around trying to pull it over before deciding to use a disposable wooden chopstick to fiddle it over, which worked fine. At the top end, I figured the largest section of boot wouldn't fit over the (fairly small) CV joint outer very well, so I decided to use the second largest section, they're designed to be cut to fit. Meanwhile, I cut one of the grease sachets open and set about trying to squirt it into the innards of the CV joint. I had originally planned to use both sachets just to make doubly sure it had plenty, but even one seemed to be far more than looked necessary, so I emptied it all in there and called the job a good 'un. Time for the fixing bands. I don't have a pair of the proper pliers so just used a pair of pipe grips. The inner one went on no problem and felt secure but the large outer one slipped off the band in the boot where it's supposed to sit, so I had to loosen it again and have another go; I pulled the boot as far up the outer CV joint housing as I could at the same time, before squeezing with all my might to crimp it off again. Then I trimmed off the loose section with a pound shop craft knife. Here's the finished result: I'm a bit worried that the big end is going to slip off; there doesn't seem to be much if any flare on the CV joint outer to hold it on; it looks as if the original CV boot fitted into an indentation on it. Still, I suppose I will have to hope for the best. Having a coffee and a vape before I begin the buggerance of trying to get all the suspension bolted up again with the various threads I've probably damaged twatting them with hammers etc. to get them loose. J4mes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split_Pin Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I considered one of theae kits for my Megane but went for a s/h driveshaft instead. Ill be keeping up to date with this to see how you get on. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I just used a steel band cable tie. Its held on for 5,000 miles so far so. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 It's not my car, so if I manage to get it roadworthy again I'm not going to be able to monitor the CV joint as often as I'd ideally like- though I will try and remember to have a quick nosey whenever its owner brings it round! I've got to actually get it back together and steering straight first anyway, which at this point is not a definite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Right time to stop and have a coffee and seek advice I think. I'm finally trying to get it all bolted back together now. First order of business was to get the hub back on the driveshaft and try and insert the stub of the bottom ball joint into it. After a brief initial lever I figured that for the sake of 10 minutes I should get my spring compressors on the strut to try and make my life a lot easier. Then, after an effort that still nearly caused me to faint, I got it underneath, and further gentle levering and adjustment got it in the hole. So far so good. So then I figured I'd spin the hub just to make sure it was spinning freely and...it's not. The stub of the ball joint is poking right up through the pinch section of the hub and rubbing on the ABS ring. I looked down the hole and sure enough the indentation in the ball joint stub where the pinch bolt goes through is higher than the hole. I had a rootle around in the boot where I'd chucked everything when I dismantled it, and couldn't find a spacer or anything. Is the stub supposed to be held in place by the clamping force of the bolt, then? The only problem if so is that in my infinite wisdom I thought I'd give the stub a quick smear of copper grease before I put it back together, thinking that would make my life easier if I need to pull it apart again. That doesn't sound like a recipe for secure clamping to me, and I worry that the weight will end up on the bolt, which doesn't sound like a good idea. So what's going on? Do I need to pull it apart again and clean it all up, or what? Am I in fact missing a spacer which I need to look harder for? Quick replies appreciated as I've put myself under a bit of time pressure now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 A picture paints a thousand words...I leave ball joint 'shafts', no sniggering at the back, dry. If the shaft is parallel, eg not tapered then it should obviously only go in as far as the indent for the bolt to sit in. If you jack both sides of the car up then it takes the load off the anti roll bar, that way you shouldn't have to use a spring compressor to get the strut high enough to work on. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 A picture paints a thousand words...I leave ball joint 'shafts', no sniggering at the back, dry. If the shaft is parallel, eg not tapered then it should obviously only go in as far as the indent for the bolt to sit in.If you jack both sides of the car up then it takes the load off the anti roll bar, that way you shouldn't have to use a spring compressor to get the strut high enough to work on. True, here you go: Thanks for the tip re: jacking the other side up, I only have one trolley jack though and the car's on the road so it's debatable whether that would have been any quicker or safer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Is the driveshaft engaged properly where it goes into the gearbox? The balljoint has a thicker bit after the stub to stop it going any further and damaging the boot. Yes the but holds against the indentation and is also held in by the pinching action of the hub. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 I assume the driveshaft is engaged properly but haven't checked. I can't see how that would make any odds to how far the ball joint shaft/stub goes in. There is a small flat piece of plastic with a locating nib between the ball joint boot and the stub, but obviously that hasn't stopped it going right the way in so that the indent in the stub is past the bolt hole. To get the bolt in I will need to gently lever the wishbone down again, which I don't foresee being a problem, I just want to make sure that it's clamped up tight as I assume that the bolt is not supposed to be subject to any non-axial load once it's done up... Edit: Anyway I guess my question has been answered, better pull it apart again and clean the stub and hole in the hub with brake cleaner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy18s Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Are you sure you are using the right bolt as the pinch bolt?It should have a longer than usual un-threaded shoulder which engages with the ballpoint recess... Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 If the drive shaft is hanging out the box it won't seat properly at either end. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfella2 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I only have one trolley jack so you could have put both axle stands under the chassis so both wheels are hanging down, that will also take load off arb. On a Clio so I assume is similar it is possible to push the ball too far, just lever it back into correct position, so the pinch bolt fits in the groove. Not sure on copper grease scenario, I didn't bother. It's not like the cars entire weight is on the ball joints, the only force on the is deflection from the roll bar and to keep the wheel upright. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 I will stick the car in gear and check the driveshaft is engaged, but it would be a bit odd if it had come loose at the gearbox end and I could still get it in the hub, and the hub back on the wishbone... Andy, the pinch bolt is the right one, I haven't even put it in yet- it was rusty as hell and the nut is hard to get on, but I forced it on with a ratchet and then removed it again, and it's not cross threaded, just stiff. Cleaned the unthreaded bit up with a wire wheel on my dremel and will copper grease it prior to reinstallation. Thanks BF2, I hadn't really thought it through that most of the weight of the car is on the spring. Still don't like the idea of it being greased if it's suppose to be a clamp fit. What I'm going to do is remove it again and clean it up with just kitchen towel, no brake cleaner, that might hopefully leave a few copper particles behind for a bit of anti-seize. It wasn't hard to get it out when I pulled it apart, the pinch bolt was a fucker though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Once the bolt is torqued up then any failure is going to occur at the actual ball joint itself. That's why the dust cover is now a part of the MOT.As others have hinted, locate the indent in the correct position, slide the bolt in, copper slip would be good here, then torque up, jobs a good 'un.Fair play for doing this on a Friday and leaving your weekend free! Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfella2 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Am guessing the drive shaft should be adequately engaged in gearbox or you wouldn't be able to bolt it properly using the three bolts. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 The driveshaft seems to be held in place by a rubber boot or something attached to the gearbox. Which is good, otherwise I'd almost certainly have yanked it out accidentally! Anyway I levered it apart again, cleaned the stub and hole, shoved it back in, copper greased the hell out of the pinch bolt and did it up as tight as I could with a normal ratchet on the nut and a spanner on the bolt. That's tight enough right? (I call pull pretty hard) I thought I'd have a go at loosening up the track rod prior to taking it to get the tracking done, but it seems I only have one 21mm spanner, so I will have to hope the dose of plusgas I gave it will do the business. Anyway have hit another snag now- as detailed some time ago further up I used a nut splitter to get the TRE nut off as it wouldn't unscrew without spinning the shaft. I thought I'd be able to get a suitable replacement out of my Lidl Box Of Nuts, which includes M10 nylocs, but it looks like the thread on the shaft is M10x1.25, whereas my nut is clearly a coarser thread, probably M10x1.5. Any pointers as to where to acquire a suitable nut at short notice and minimal expense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 The boot just keeps all the shit out of the joint. Its usually an interference fit into the gearbox. I'd just put another TRE on, they aren't dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 True, but they're presumably dearer than a replacement nut, and more arseache to fit! And as I say, I would need to acquire a second 21mm spanner as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 For goodness sake, what a ball ache. Just cycled all over and nobody has an M10x1.25 nut to sell me. Even tried the place I was planning on taking to to to get the tracking done, you'd think having to split nuts off would be a common enough occurence for them, no joy. New TRE it is then I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Spares & Tyres Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Its about £6 for track rods. You don't have to change the rod, just use the but! expensive nut though. Clean up the thread really well and grease so the ball itself doesn't turn when you do it up. Rave and The Moog 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Q Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 You got to find yourself a local fastener supplier, they really are a godsend. I am in mine quite regularly putting some broken rusty thing on the desk asking for "one like that". There's a place here in Watford, not exactly local I know. https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/ Also a couple in South London, no idea how close they are to you or if they even exist, just found from a quick google. Stone Fasteners Ltd Fastener supplier in London, EnglandAddress: 669A Woolwich Rd, London SE7 8SLPhone: 020 8293 5080 Clerkenwell Screws Ltd109 Clerkenwell Rd, Clerkenwell, London EC1R 5BY020 7405 1215 Might not be any use this time but worth checking out for future reference. Rave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now