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1974 MGB GT - The Mustard (Mit) Mobility Scooter - 6yrs ownership & the end is potentially nigh!


SiC

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I've always viewed breaking down as a learning curve. 

 

On an old car it is usually points, condenser, coil or sometimes fuel related.

 

Take spares with you and a basic toolkit capable of enabling you to fit said bits. Have coolant in a can in the boot. Cable ties, a bit of wire and some tape. 

 

Join a breakdown service have a fully charged mobile and some drinks and snacks just in case it isn't the above items failing.

 

Feel the fear and drive the car anyway. Avoiding is not a way to deal with anxiety. It really, really, really isn't.

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If you really can't do it then sell it. You have scratched that itch and you can then move on to getting the little Austin sorted. 

 

You should also sell me the Jag via pitifully small monthly installments.

 

Two cars less and that means a happier miserable bastard wanker neighbour.

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I wish I lived nearer to you. I'd borrow it for the weekend, thrash it down to Torbay (I bought my first MGB there and drove it back 280 miles home just turning up the radio to hide the noises) and drop it you off saying "no problems".

 

And the FTP of mine isn't going as well as expected (or as expected). Fuel pipes in engine bay no problem, removed the pump (it's mounting is odd on the later roadster) and part of the boot floor came with it. Spent today welding above a fuel tank (oh yes, 40years in H&S taught me many things!). Just need to find a new home for the pump and off we go. I have a small toolkit in the boot just in case it breaks down. Otherwise Mrs BMH isn't going to be happy trying to find the tow rope in the back of the garage.

 

But that's me, age and experience of old pieces of shite makes me less worried about problems. Getting the 62 plate Seat through its next test is my current problem, even though the tester told me it should pass after all I spent last year.

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If you don't sell it Si, then just 1 short journey a week to build your confidence up in it. As others have said, keep a very basic selection of tools and spares  (1/2" spanner, a couple of screwdrivers, points, condenser and set of HT leads) as most older lumps are pretty forgiving if not running perfectly, and do 20 miles once a week for a month, then gradually build up the miles or frequency of usage.

 

I get the impression you're not yet used to how the car behaves; the couple hundred miles or so you've done in a year is not enough driving time to learn how a car behaves. Lumpy running could be ignition or fuelling so irrespective of how new things are, change the cap, rotor, coil, points and leads. easy to change at the roadside if needed, and rules things out.

 

Once you're used to it, and if you've not done it already, I really do recommend an electronic ignition setup that gets rid of the points and condenser setup because modern stuff here is shite. Solved 90% of the poor running of scimitar no2.

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You know that nervous feeling when you go into an interview? Or that feeling of dread when your boss calls you into his office unexpectedly?

 

I get both of these just sat in this car when driving it on the road. My mind tells me that I've sorted everything that possibly could break and it's very unlikely to. Everything you've all said makes absolute sense and I know it. However the inexplicable anexity I get is what I'm trying to work out why and overcome.

 

Last time I went out was with the father-in-law as above wih grand* plans to go for a 40-50 mile trip. However 20mins along, the engine didn't feel as smooth and was quite lumpy. I couldn't take it anymore and had to turn back. Got back perfectly fine but still not as smooth as it was - revs had dropped back 100-200rpm or so too. Probably absolutely fine or something simple like the carbs needing tweaking after being actually driven and clearing out the engine a bit.

 

I do really want to drive this, go out to enjoy and not worry. I really do and why I haven't sold it. But I get that massive sinking feeling in the stomach everytime I take it out of the garage and get onto the main road.

 

Not surprised you're not using it if that's how it makes you feel.

 

Do you feel easier when, say, your FIL is there? Perhaps he'd come out for a longer run one weekend. Bit of backup and all that.

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Fair play, I'm getting a vibe that at least you can see somethings not right with you here rather than making excuses or blaming it on the car or whatever. Seriously your MGB is better sorted than 90% of B's out there, I'm certain of it.

 

What about lending it to a local shiter and letting him clock up a couple of hundred miles or whatever to give it a shakedown. If it behaves, the pair of you could take it for a blezz out for a pub lunch 50 miles away (making sure you've got breakdown cover between you). I'm sure that will build the karma - if that lack of karma is the actual problem of course.

 

Perhaps you're just more into the tinkering than the driving. To be fair, if I had a 'modern' and a 70's car on the road at the same time, I just know i'd go everywhere in the modern simply cos its easier. Theres nowt wrong in admitting you simply prefer getting about in the modern.

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Regardless of what's going on in my life(short of being out of town or the engine being in pieces), I make it a point to take my MGB out once a week for a half hour to an hour or so. Of course, that's not counting driving it to work-which-weather permitting-I'll do a couple of times a week. If I can take it on a 100 mile drive in one evening or a Saturday afternoon, I'm happy. I've been known to drive it to my parents' house once a month or so, which is 60 miles each way and 50 miles at 70mph+.

 

These cars love to be driven. Yes, I have problems but I drive it enough that I can "feel" and "hear" when something is not quite right with it. I even know the car well enough that I can often pinpoint it just from driving it.

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Perhaps you're just more into the tinkering than the driving. To be fair, if I had a 'modern' and a 70's car on the road at the same time, I just know i'd go everywhere in the modern simply cos its easier. Theres nowt wrong in admitting you simply prefer getting about in the modern.

That's why I have the Acclaim.

 

I could feasibly commute every day in the Doloshite but that's too much like hard work... It's slow and noisy, the lights are crap, the wipers are crap and it requires on-the-go fettling that I can't be arsed with at 6am on a rainy morning. Also driving around Glasgow is lame.

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  • 1 month later...

I genuinely forget I own this at times. Probably should go check it's still there and not a pile of rusty flakes where there was 70s British steel.

 

This came today for it.

8b4277793420a64f5aba1d99028c99fe.jpg

 

Another distributor you say? Well this one is a bit different. It contains electromagic!

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I've never been happy with the ignition system on this car nor been convinced it's working properly. The original distributor vacuum advance failed and the crap modern aftermarket condenser crapped itself giving me a FTP. I happened to buy a cheap modern 45D to play around with previously and I replaced the original with that. To try improve reliability I put a Distributor Doctor condenser on it and slightly better quality points. However the distributor had generic MGB timings and I have no idea if they're really that suitable for my engine. The timing changed quite a bit over the run of the B-series production. Plus many online doubt the precision of these cheap dizzys.

 

Also the last time I went out, it started to loose it's smoothness and by the time I got back, it was pretty lumpy - almost misfiring. So much so it looked like it was chucking unburnt fuel out in bursts at idle. I haven't done any debugging of it since and just chucked it back into the garage so it's out of sight and out of mind.

 

Anyway as I've been fixing the 1100, I've been getting the urge again to drive something classic - i.e. I should get the MGB out. Mindful of the ignition problems it's had, I decided to search for a solution. One option was to send it off to Distributor Doctor for a rebuild (roughly £100 apparently). Another was a new aftermarket 25D - again will have timing + quality issues like the one I have. Second hand distributors go for a lot and probably are knackered too.

 

Something else I've seen mentioned is the fully electronic distributors like the 123-Ignition. They're nice, but at £250 they're not cheap. A competitor to 123-Ignition is CSI-Ignition. Predominantly stocked and sold through Moss, they have a small following online but nothing like 123. A bit more expensive too (Moss have an offer on).

 

So Sunday night I had a quick look on eBay for what they go second hand for. 123 seem to go for the £150 price mark. No CSI ignition were sold on eBay ... except one was on right now. Right now and only currently at £37. ...Ending in 25 minutes!?

 

A few last minute bids later I snaffled it for £60 posted. Bargain! This is the immobiliser version which I wouldn't have chosen myself if I was buying but at this price! This particular unit is still listed by Moss for £384. :o

 

I'll fit it sometime soon but I'm interested to see if it makes it run any better. Also sorely tempted to stick one of those Remax coils that Spire Dawson has recommended. I'm not convinced these modern coils like being installed inverted like they are on the MGB. You can hear the oil sloshing about and it's probably going to have an air gap on the end of the coil if inverted. I'll probably throw some new leads on the car for good measure too.

 

Plus as I'm finally giving the car some actual computing power, maybe it will allow me to trust it? :D

 

After all, as long as enough fuel is being chucked in (which has wide margins to what will make an engine run or not) then the ignition system just needs to do its job for continued running.

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Slight thread 'savvication' here...

 

I stood outside Tesco today with the bonnet up on ToMM >> planned! >> and, in the time it took for SWMBO to log her scan as you shop and stuff her Iceland bag in the trolley, I swapped out the air cleaner element & chucked the old one in their bin.

 

Ancient Carina does not evoke 'teh Fear' m8

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Fitting electronic ignition to my Dolly 1300 transformed the car from something that would NEVER start or run properly to something that would SOMETIMES start and run properly. A good investment.

 

Especially as the car is sat in the work car park and is being relied upon to get me home at 23:15...

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I know someone that has a supercharger on an A series in his Minor. He had nothing but trouble getting it to run right and settled on a 'least bad' tune.

He invested about £300 on something like this and it transformed the car.

 

Looking forward to the MGB becoming the daily when this is fitted ;)

Most of the 123 ignition distributors can be programmed to custom ignition maps, where as this is only limited to a selection of 16 maps suitable for a MGA/MGB. However as my original distributor and engine match up, there is a setting that replicates the timing of it. Probably more accurately too as it's not worn out!

 

I did plan to make my own mappable ignition system, however this was too cheap to ignore and a lot quicker to have results! Still plan to do one though. The 1100 could be a handy test bench once done.

 

 

Sounds like the points closed up on the old dizzy SiC.

Quite possibly. On Henry Garage video where he takes his Rolls Royce to the artic circle, he does mention that his mechanic told him the points can close up a bit when they're new and just replaced. I need to get the car down from the garage (which I'm a bit apprehensive about, as I won't have time for recovery if it does), so I'll need to drive it on points for a tad longer..

 

 

Fitting electronic ignition to my Dolly 1300 transformed the car from something that would NEVER start or run properly to something that would SOMETIMES start and run properly. A good investment.

 

Especially as the car is sat in the work car park and is being relied upon to get me home at 23:15...

Yeah I've heard that electronic ignition can make a world of difference. Also heard that some of the cheaper ones can be a bit hit or miss quality wise. My suspicion is that many people don't properly clean up the contact surface between the base of the module and the dizzy base plate. Nor properly apply the heat compound grease. As it's power electronics, if not done properly the transistors inside the module could easily overheat and be killed.

 

One thing I don't like about most electronic ignition modules is that you can't set it statically. They only fire the coil once when passing the rotor and then disconnect the coil. So you have to do it dynamically. PIA. Especially as the MGB dizzy is not the easiest to get to.

 

This dizzy unit has an LED that lights up when you've put the unit in the correct location. So you set it to 10 degrees on the crank, turn the dizzy until the LED lights up, bolt down and you're done.

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I've yet to find an aftermarket distributor where I was happy with the quality.

 

IMO, you'd have been better your original 25D off to the Distributor Doctor, having him rebuild it as 62-67 MGB distributor, and then running points. DD sells the good fiber-block points, and even though they might need to be tweaked a few times in the first couple hundred miles, they should last a long time after that.

 

I run a similarly configured distributor in my car, although Jeff Schlemmer(in the US) did mine.

 

BTW, be sure-regardless of the distributor-that you're running a RED rotor from the Distributor Doctor, Moss, or some other supplier. The black ones are pure junk. The black plastic can become conductive at ignition secondary voltages, but the bigger issue is that they use a metal rivet to secure the brass arm to the body. This rivet can short to the center post, which will cause the spark to go directly to ground. The red rotors use a plastic "rivet" and are immune from this problem, plus the plastic won't become conductive.

 

Finally, give your cap a close look. Most of the ones on the market are thermoplastic with aluminum terminals. These are usually fine, but the terminals can errode and they are a bit more susceptible to cracking. Moisture from a cracked cap, or carbon tracking from a worn out one, can cause all sorts of headaches. I spend the extra bucks for a phenolic cap with brass terminals-once again I think the Distributor Doctor carries them. I've been much happier with them than the more common aluminum ones.

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I can't help myself when I get hold of a set of screwdrivers...

 

Top lid off.

ce2e60aba9b2e288cbe437491489ad28.jpg

 

Lid was a simple machined aluminium piece.

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5734dff130aab5eab5c408d2030e5e00.jpg

 

Pickup ring had a grub screw going through to locate it and a short screw on top. I think the screw on top is mostly for show.

 

I was worried that the pickup was glued on too. A bit of twisting got it off though.

8d19785b0440514a9e2fd636b368a122.jpg

 

The pickup ring appears to use 4 neodymium magnets to sense position. The other side of the PCB will have a hall effect sensor to detect these. There are another set of 6 holes offset, which I guess is for 6 cylinder applications.

dcfa26fe4c8208a299f16e346e2a0b59.jpg

 

Taking off the PCB showed the bottom of the distributor. Looks like they essentially buy a cheap aftermarket 25D Lucas, mod and fit their gubbins.

8bf84c52abfb3dcc534efff102a171c3.jpg

 

The vacuum pickup looks like essentially drilled straight through and put a brass pipe in. Fitted a rubber bung to locate it.

7863a90667fea018b78886ea77db8193.jpg

 

The tube at the top has then been soldered.

f2e3b9f04475a0bc2bb2686449c5fbf0.jpg

 

Noticed the tube on the vacuum was split. This alone made it worth while pulling apart.

3a19cd04e57cb1e16f60bd1aa42a1b6a.jpg

 

Now the PCB...

7964b481e57a0d2bf176e00a5d557850.jpg

 

036de8bde34911810a8e317df54c6f00.jpg

 

Not impressed with all the messy shit they've soldered on in the bottom. This goes to the immobiliser circuit box. Why couldn't they spun a new revision board to support the immobiliser rather than bodging all that crap on? PCBs aren't expensive to make. Especially as they could have done that, then leave the cable off for those without it.

 

Main drive transistor.

c7844642e78fee9006aaaa32080d0909.jpg

 

Uses a pretty lowly PIC 8-bit microcontroller for the processing - 16F688. Contains 4k of program memory, 256 bytes of RAM and 256 bytes of EEPROM. One of the cheapest micros you can get. Like under a dollar in even modest quantities. Nothing wrong with that persay though. No point using a way over powerful micro for no reason. I'm tempted to wire in a debugger and see if I can get any code off.

 

The program has almost certainly been written in assembler due to the resource constraints. So should be pretty easy to understand what's going on and do any mods.

 

6ee9203d570b4418e0d52de475cd40c8.jpg

 

It would be good if I could get the code off. That way I can remove the immobiliser functionality, as that sort of crap gets in the way a lot of the time. I've opened up the immobiliser box and there isn't much in there. A piezoelectric buzzer and a potted RF receiver.

 

If it wasn't for the immobiliser bodging on the side, this would be half decent. Not sure the immobiliser function is worth the extra £100 on top of it's asking price! Something like this unit would be easy to make for under 50 quid without final assembly labour costs. Pretty sure this is a one-man in a shed type outfit.

 

I really ought not to pull this stuff apart as it puts me off using these things.

 

7/10 if I exclude the immobiliser shit. I paid £65 for it. I'd be disappointed if I'd paid £250!

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What the hell is this doing in a 25D distributor? Give me strength.

I won't deny, I am tempted now to send off my distributor off to the Doctor now. It's not really a 25D either. A real 25D is made by Lucas before the 80s of course.

 

 

Let me get this right, you have got a cheap aftermarket dizzy, full of electrical gubbins that only you understand.

As a replacement for a cheap aftermarket dizzy containing points and a condenser, which the majority of us lot do understand.

I see!

Not sure you'd be calling it cheap if you spent £270-£450 on this! They're still available to buy from Moss though if you're interested in one. It's in their current special offer they're doing on many branded parts too.

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/csi-ignition-distributors-mgb.html

 

Not sure that I'd call the electronics complicated in this either. It's like calling a lawnmower engine complex when comparing it to a modern car engine.

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Seeing the inside of that distributor reminds me of just exactly WHY I always advocate rebuilding the original rather than replacing it.

 

Aside from the missing mechanical advance, the machining quality doesn't look a lot different from the Pertronix-branded 25D I bought. I keep that distributor in the car as a "just in case" spare, but it's terrible-it has a more run-out than my worn out original 25D had. There's also the fact that the drive dog isn't positioned correctly, and it won't actually seat completely in the block-the times I've used it I've just gone with "close enough" and clamped it down enough to keep it in place.

 

Also, I wonder why they even bothered to use the 25D casting on this particular distributor. Since neither the vac advance can or the micrometric screw are actually connected to anything, it seems like it would have been better to use a 45D casting.

 

At least stateside, it's around $150 to have Jeff Schlemmer rebuild a 25D(or 45D). I can't imagine that the Distributor Doctor is that different on his prices.

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