Project 1974 MGB GT - The Mustard (Mit) Mobility Scooter - After nearly 7yrs, The End (for me)

[nebuchenezer]

Popped to the garage to pay the bill and pick the keys up. The garage I used is the one that started me back off in wanting a classic car. Those that have been following my threads (including the month long hunt for a MGB GT) will remember the (heavily undersealed) red/orangish rubber bumper one they had for sale. Had a good little natter with the boss.

 

Firstly said about it breaking down - "Yeah MGs often do that". Then got him to check out what he thought about my 55psi oil pressure and tappet rattle.

 

Tappet rattle he said just needed them adjusting. I said I had, he then suggested possibly the cam buckets are worn. But not to worry about.

 

Said there was no nasty rattles on startup and oil pressure at 55psi or so isn't tragic. He gave it a very good rev (still cold - massive black clouds out the back!) and checked the pressures. Reckoned it probably was probably an oil pump that's worn. Said he'd be surprised if the 57.5k or so is genuine to the car (i.e. not gone around the clock once).

 

TL;DR he agreed with me that I should just drive it.

[SiC]

I did manage nearly 10 miles this evening! Ignored the 40-45psi on the pressure gauge when warm and that it sounds like a knackered Briggs and Stratton.

 

Even got the missus in there for the half mile ride up to put it away. Admittedly she wasn't really interested in it at all. Her only remark being that I shouldn't be throwing it around like I throw our other cars around... Apparently it's not the type of car for that!

[nebuchenezer]

Popped to the garage to pay the bill and pick the keys up. The garage I used is the one that started me back off in wanting a classic car. Those that have been following my threads (including the month long hunt for a MGB GT) will remember the (heavily undersealed) red/orangish rubber bumper one they had for sale. Had a good little natter with the boss.

 

Firstly said about it breaking down - "Yeah MGs often do that". Then got him to check out what he thought about my 55psi oil pressure and tappet rattle.

 

Tappet rattle he said just needed them adjusting. I said I had, he then suggested possibly the cam buckets are worn. But not to worry about.

 

Said there was no nasty rattles on startup and oil pressure at 55psi or so isn't tragic. He gave it a very good rev (still cold - massive black clouds out the back!) and checked the pressures. Reckoned it probably was probably an oil pump that's worn. Said he'd be surprised if the 57.5k or so is genuine to the car (i.e. not gone around the clock once).

 

TL;DR he agreed with me that I should just drive it.

Oh dear God man, he agreed with you* that it needs driving.

 

I am speechless.....

[busmansholiday]

I did manage nearly 10 miles this evening! Ignored the 40-45psi on the pressure gauge when warm and that it sounds like a knackered Briggs and Stratton.

 

Even got the missus in there for the half mile ride up to put it away. Admittedly she wasn't really interested in it at all. Her only remark being that I shouldn't be throwing it around like I throw our other cars around... Apparently it's not the type of car for that!

Stop looking at all those dials (other than the speedo) and just drive it, preferably without Mrs SiC in it!

[Mally]

Drive it 3 months, put about 45 miles on it, then stick it on ebay.

The 1100 is going to be finished soon*

[Crispian_J_Hotson]

I loved my beegeetee. It was a total bucket though and someone had 'had a go' but for £250 what could go wrong?

I dragged it to a unit, spent a weekend hitting it with a hammer and put it back on the road after it sat in a shed for 12 years.

I thrashed the arse out of it and it had it but the battery lead kept falling off which got annoying. 

I took it off the road and spent a metric tonne of cash on bits to fix the body but lost interest when I got busy elsewhere.

Car mechanics mag bought it off me and (rather controversially) fixed it right up on a feature and raffled it off. Think it lives in scottishland now for some reason. It's on the road but not on the radar.

[SiC]

I loved my beegeetee. It was a total bucket though and someone had 'had a go' but for £250 what could go wrong?

 

They've long gone from the 250quid price. Even utter sheds. But then everything pre 80s (and a lot of 80s) stuff is like that now. Nostalgia is very popular nowadays.

 

I am beginning to like this car again. Slowly. But surely. Helps that I have logic in my mind why this thing should no longer cut dead out on me.

 

My colleague brought in his MGB roadster in on last Thursday. He's had it a month or two now and he's done around 3x the mileage I have in mine. He fully expected it to breakdown and told his wife that it will too. Except it hasn't.

 

I do like the convertible-ness (I don't like the look of them as much though) and really regret not getting an MGB GT with a Webasto. His is a rubber to chrome conversion (he wasn't aware of this when he bought it) but it's obviously had a lot of money spent on it over the years.

 

We went out for a quick run at lunchtime with me in the passenger seat. His is a lot throatier and gives pops on the overrun. I guess timing maybe out? Also continues running for a bit with the ignition switched off. Running original points still on a 25D. Looked NOS points and rotor arm. Definitely the points are made from better materials than the set in mine are.

 

I also have oil pressure envy as his was pulling around 70-75psi when warm! He gave it plenty of beans and it was great fun. Reminded me what MGB ownership should be about. Have said for him to come down sometime and go out for a spin together in mine, so I can get some use through it.

[320touring]

Good work on driving it - keep it up:)

 

I need tyres with tread for the Oxford then I'm off again..

[1970mgb]

Why are you worried about 40-45 psi on the oil pressure gauge?

 

Yes, ideally it SHOULD be higher, but the engine isn't about to self destruct at that pressure. I haven't bothered to read when you last did an oil change, but it seems like you've barely run it enough to get the oil hot. Remember that carbs can be bad about fuel dilution, especially if the car is tuned rich(most MGBs run rich at idle) as well as as result of poor fuel atomizaion(or fuel condensation in the intake) when the engine isn't quite up to temperature. Fuel dilution will lower the viscosity and give lower oil pressures. Usually, a nice hard 30 minute+ drive(the longer the better) to get the oil up to temperature and will help get rid of both fuel dilution and water condensation in the oil-both are bad things.

 

I will say that my pressure did jump up 5 psi or so at idle(and stayed about the same at speed) when I switched to using a larger oil filter. I switched from a Motorcraft FL-300 or FL-400(I don't remember which-one is specced for the MGB, the other is what my daily driver calls for) to a Motorcraft FL-1A. The FL-1A is a seriously large filter, and at one time was common for a lot of big American V8s. Still, it fits perfectly at least on LHD cards(check the clearance on RHD) and I've been told that the higher pressure is because it's less likely to go into bypass. Also, for the inverted spin-on MGB filters, the standpipe is RELATIVELY tall and it can occasionally impede proper oil flow, especially with some of the really small filters I see folks running.

 

If in doubt, you can always drain the oil, refill with 20W-50, and put on a fresh FL-1A or equivalent. Virtually every maker makes a filter in this pattern and it's easy to cross reference. In the US, the general advice is to avoid NAPA branded filters as the threads are not always cut great and they can damage the soft aluminum on the filter standpipe on the MGB. I think Wix makes filters for NAPA, and to be safe I'd avoid Wix branded filters. Purolator, Fram(despite all the hate they sometimes get, the "orange can of death" is actually a decent enough filter, and the Ultra Guard is among the best on the market) and Baldwin all make great filters. My preferred Motorcrafts are made by Purolator and are basically a PureONE with more media and a silicon ADB valve.

 

Even at 40-45 PSI, the engine probably still has 10,000 miles+ on it with a bit of care, and let's face it-at the current rates you're going that's a LONG time. It takes less than a day of work to drop the pan and replace 7 of the 9 bearings(4 rod bearings and the three center mains), an operation which will probably restore oil pressure pretty effectively.

 

Also, I should have mentioned this first, and think I did earlier in the thread, but don't forget that gauges are not infallible. An external oil pressure gauge is a handy thing to have, and it's not a bad idea to hook it up and compare the readings on it to your dash gauge. It doesn't hurt to disconnect the flex line from both the block and the hard line to the gauge, and give it a good flushing with kerosene or something equivalent. You can use a pipe cleaner to clean out the orifice in the block with the same. If you're feeling really adventurous, unhook the hard line from the back of the gauge and flush it with kerosene also(followed by compressed air). Just have a fresh leather washer on hand for when you re-make this connection-it's no fun to have the old one fail and suddenly have oil spraying out from behind your dash.

[Mally]

When I bought a GT I thought I needed a Roadster, so I bought one and sold the GT.

Mistake, I used the GT as a daily, it was warm and reliable.

The Roadster was draughty, noisy, unreliable, every time I took the roof off it rained!

 

I dropped the pan and changed the bearings as ^^^^. Pain getting the front bolts out, but it works.

[SiC]

I've heard about using the long filters before from US videos but had no idea on the part number. Motorcraft and FL-1A doesn't seem readily available here. Struggling to find a suitable alternative. There is the Mann W 940/4 which I think is the nearest equivalent?

 

Oil change is on the cards at some point soon. Especially as it's done a lot of sitting around idling. As previously suggested, the current oil in there (Granville 20w-50) isn't supposed to be the best quality stuff.

[SiC]

Also, I still wouldn't be overly concerned about the noisy tappets. If you want it to go away, tighten them up to 13 thou or so. Also, an alloy rocker cover can really cut down on the amount of tappet noise you hear.

 

Forgot to reply to this. I've already put them down to 13 thou. Not changed the amount of tappet rattle though. Definitely rattles quite a bit more when hot. Not enough oil getting up on the top end maybe?

[Mally]

Run it without the lid on.

You will soon find out.

[dozeydustman]

Forgot to reply to this. I've already put them down to 13 thou. Not changed the amount of tappet rattle though. Definitely rattles quite a bit more when hot. Not enough oil getting up on the top end maybe?

 

 

 

If you're concerned about a little bit of tappet rattle, never ever buy anything with a Simca Poissy or Ford Kent engine.

 

Stop fartarsing about with the sodding rocker clearances which, in the last video you posted, they sound just like any other B-series car I've worked on on been in, so just drive it.

 

As long as the top of the engine isn't going bang bang bang, it's fine. Just set them every 3000 miles or so.

[Kiltox]

JFDI, Si.

[Exiled_Tat_Gatherer]

Another who bought a shonky BGT many moons back - until I detonated the engine it was a bloody good laugh...... Just hoon it - wcpgw? The backend will be all over the place if you give it some, the engine will have a fantastic throaty burble going on as you go through passes/tunnles and it'll put a smile on your face. No offence - but you're sanding like the flatcap brigade that get slated so much with doddering about and not using the cars as they can be used. 

Please don't overanalyse this...... you're avoiding spending time in a glorious looking car that most of us here would give our first born/other half (OK a FWB) and hind teeth to blast about in.

 

Good luck!

[1970mgb]

I agree that the tappet noise from the video posted earlier doesn't sound abnormal for a B series engine. They all sound "like a sewing machine" when they're running.

 

A worn rocker shaft can cause a bit more noise than usual. This is about a $15 part from Moss US, but I wouldn't necessarily be in a rush to change it. It's no TERRIBLE, but of course is easier with the rockers off the car and is a bit fiddly to do. Pulling the rockers necessitates a head retorque-again not a big deal(and something that you should probably do if you don't know the history on it), but just another little thing to add to the job.

 

Also, I can't emphasize enough how important the valve cover and gasket are in cutting down rocker noise. With OEM sheet metal, I suggest using a cork gasket. There are four tabs that gasket tucks into so as to retain it, but I also put a bit of Permatex between the cover and the gasket to hold everything in place. I also like to leave it sitting on a smooth, hard surface with a bit of weight on it(a garage floor works well, and a couple of socket wrenches for weight) overnight before fitting to the car. I typically put a nice coat of grease on the other side of the gasket(between the gasket and and the head), but have also fit them dry. Be sure the rubber grommets are in good shape, and that you're fitting the the cupped washers over top of them before installing the rocker cover nuts. The idea behind this whole arrangement is that the cover should be "floating". Don't go nuts on tightening down the rocker cover nuts, either-you can bend the thin sheet metal and it will never seal correctly.

 

As I mentioned, an alloy rocker cover can do a fair bit to cut down on noise. They are thicker and heavier than the sheet metal covers. One downside to them, though, is that getting a good seal on the gasket can be...interesting...

[1970mgb]

BTW, here's an FL-1A cross reference list I put together

 

Wix 51515/51515XP

Purolator L30001

Fram PH8A / HP1

Baldwin B2(avoid)

K&N 3001(can have the prefix HP, PS, or SS)

Mobil 1 M1-301A

Mopar 1AMFL00029

AC Delco PFL1A

Amsoil EAO15

Bosch 72102WS, 0-451-103-007

Carquest 85515

Champion PL8A/CL8A

Mann W940

 

Like I said, this filter had a TON of applications here in the US, albeit mostly on big V8s from the big 3. Consequently, I consider it something of a reference filter and most every manufacturer catalogs an equivalent.

[Squire_Dawson]

Did someone say 'points'?

 

[Uncle Jimmy]

Lot of good advice here!

[SiC]

Lot of good points here!

FTFY

[Zelandeth]

Sounds fine to me in the videos.

 

As far as the accuracy of the oil pressure gauge goes, stop worrying about it. It's an older engine with some miles on and a Smith's gauge...consider it as an indication that there is some pressure there, and stop fretting about it unless it suddenly shifts from where you're used to seeing it sit. If you really must confirm the pressure, compare it to an external gauge. There's obviously pressure though, so I'd not be worrying.

 

High flow oil filter isn't a bad idea on any car though I'd say, so if there is a bigger one out there cheaply, no reason not to swap it.

[LightBulbFun]

slightly* off topic but I cant help but notice

 

 

and to get back on topic have this very helpful* meme (replace Corolla and 30 with MG and 40-50 as appropriate )

 

[1970mgb]

Hey, no reason an MGB can't do 100.

 

Just make sure your tires, brakes and suspension are in good shape...and don't cruise there all day.

 

A roadster with a high compression engine can do ~105 w/o OD top up(assuming everything is in good order), and a GT about 107. Add in O/D and you can add 1-2mph to each of those top speeds.

 

Granted they get pretty light in the front end when you get up into the upper 90s. The front spoiler used on the NA market 1979/80 LE actually helps a lot with this-it's just as shame that in bone stock form, those cars run out of steam somewhere in the 80s.

[SiC]

Picked this filter up from Euro Car Parts. It was listed for a 1995 V8 Mustang. The FL-1A match is listed as a W940/4. Only difference I can tell is the drain back valve pressure and bypass valve pressure.

 

Also bought this from Moss as it was on offer - under 20quid for 5 litres. They reckon it's high in ZDDP and designed for classics. No idea who actually makes it though. Being Moss, I kinda hope it's half decent...

 

The main reason I bought it was because it was 20w-60. So hopefully give me a few extra pounds of pressure when hot. Same price as 20w-50 so I thought why not.

 

[captain_70s]

Never heard of Dynolite, didn't even know you could get 20w60 for cars... May consider it for the Doloshite of much fuckedness.

 

I have a Mann filter on the Acclaim and it is yet to explode.

[SiC]

Never heard of Dynolite, didn't even know you could get 20w60 for cars... May consider it for the Doloshite of much fuckedness.

 

I have a Mann filter on the Acclaim and it is yet to explode.

This is no normal Mann filter, it's an extra long Mann filter!

 

I think Dynolite is an old oil french oil brand that is now owned by Moss. Now Moss just use for their own brand oils. This is the MSDS for it. The postcode is for Moss HQ.

 

Safety Data Sheet_GGL812210 _GGL812250_Classic 20W60.pdf

[Kiltox]

Drive. It.

 

Was impressed to see National using Mann filters when doing the £45 oil change on my Primera - was expecting Crosland or worse.

[320touring]

Fucksake lad..

 

BMW E46 m3s use 10w60 , the b series has clearances you can fist..

 

As the owner of the boring primera above states, at least get a wear out the oil thats in it

 

[busmansholiday]

Interesting data sheet, brings back memories of the job I used to do.

 

Always makes me ask questions when for a European Safety Datasheet they quote ACGIH (American conference of Government Industrial Hygienists ) exposureS rather than EH40.