Schaefft's Bargain Barge Extravaganza - Renault VelSatis 3.5 V6

[ProgRocker]

I know what it is.   

[Schaefft]

Here's another fact that should make it easy:

The car's platform is unique to this one Mazda model, it did not share it with any other vehicle either.

[Soundwave]

Cosmo (JC platform)?

[Schaefft]

33 minutes ago, Soundwave said:

Cosmo (JC platform)?

Similar to the 929, if I found one for reasonable money I'd have one tomorrow. I love them, first car that came with a Satnav!

The mystery car here had another first though, a combustion cycle that was different to that of any other production car of the time, only becoming a more common thing recently.

[Soundwave]

Xedos 9 (I know the 6 has already been mentioned) with the Miller cycle lump?

[loserone]

7 hours ago, Soundwave said:

Xedos 9 (I know the 6 has already been mentioned) with the Miller cycle lump?

This seems most likely given @Schaefft's leanings 

[OM646]

10 hours ago, Soundwave said:

Xedos 9 (I know the 6 has already been mentioned) with the Miller cycle lump?

Yeah seeing the cycle thing and the exclusive platform, I'm leaning onto a Xedos 9 as well 

 

(Let me say Millenia too in case it's a US import)

[Schaefft]

23 hours ago, Soundwave said:

Xedos 9 (I know the 6 has already been mentioned) with the Miller cycle lump?

 

15 hours ago, loserone said:

This seems most likely given @Schaefft's leanings 

 

13 hours ago, OM646 said:

Yeah seeing the cycle thing and the exclusive platform, I'm leaning onto a Xedos 9 as well 

 

(Let me say Millenia too in case it's a US import)

Sorry for leaving you guys hanging (had a headache all day long) but we do have 3 winners!

And not just any Xedos 9 but the top of the line Supercharged Miller Cycle in a lovely shade of metallic green!

There's a lot to be said about the Xedos 9 and how important it really was for Mazda together with the Xedos 6 at the time, more about that tomorrow.

Nowadays nearly extinct this happened to be enthusiast owned for 20 years and while not perfect should hopefully be a solid car (although there is big potential for drama with this one, more about that tomorrow as well!).

[loserone]

Awesome

 

[R Lutz]

7 hours ago, Schaefft said:

 

 

Sorry for leaving you guys hanging (had a headache all day long) but we do have 3 winners!

And not just any Xedos 9 but the top of the line Supercharged Miller Cycle in a lovely shade of metallic green!

There's a lot to be said about the Xedos 9 and how important it really was for Mazda together with the Xedos 6 at the time, more about that tomorrow.

Nowadays nearly extinct this happened to be enthusiast owned for 20 years and while not perfect should hopefully be a solid car (although there is big potential for drama with this one, more about that tomorrow as well!).

Years ago I bought a hardback book about the Xedos 9. Mazda must have been proud of it to commission a such a publication, because it's not a brochure. 

[ProgRocker]

It's been de-stickered! Here's what the Xedos 9 looked like in summer 2023:

It did look a bit rough in places on closer inspection.

[Schaefft]

1 hour ago, R Lutz said:

Years ago I bought a hardback book about the Xedos 9. Mazda must have been proud of it to commission a such a publication, because it's not a brochure. 

That's right, the car even came with the book (10 Untold Stories) which would have been amazing had I not bought and read it already years ago!

It really is an interesting read about how Mazda tried to catch up step by step with the European competition in the decades before, why Japanese cars were never seen as the most attractive and how Mazda was learning and pouring everything they had into their luxury car lineup to change that and really build the highest quality car with a real character they ever had. And while the Xedos line was somewhat let to wither on the vine in later years (as the Japanese economic bubble burst and money was tight) the efforts that originally went into designing and creating them, basically rethinking how to design and build a car from the ground up, resulted in very competitive vehicles. It's just a really nice snippet of how the Japanese auto industry came to rise, only to very rapidly stagnate and crush many people's dreams (the latter part isn't part of the book but I got to write a post about Amati later).

1 hour ago, ProgRocker said:

It's been de-stickered! Here's what the Xedos 9 looked like in summer 2023:

It did look a bit rough in places on closer inspection.

That's the one! It's clearly a well taken care of car but it is getting a little crusty on one rear arch now (as is every Xedos in this country apparently). I think the Mazda was donated to the seller who took it on a charity rally around Scotland and Europe, there's still a page up on FB. He tried to sell the car for a very ambitious price a year ago, I already sent him a message back then. One year forward and I was still the only person having a genuine interest in it so we made a deal. I don't think I got a bargain (there's a knocking noise after cooling down that sounds like rod knock which was of course undisclosed) but I'm hoping that's just a worn tensioner/failing coil pack as often seems to be the case with these. My mate drove it up from Norwich without issues so crossing my fingers it won't need much. Even if it does I think this one is worth preserving!

[R Lutz]

11 hours ago, Schaefft said:

That's right, the car even came with the book (10 Untold Stories) which would have been amazing had I not bought and read it already years ago!

It really is an interesting read about how Mazda tried to catch up step by step with the European competition in the decades before, why Japanese cars were never seen as the most attractive and how Mazda was learning and pouring everything they had into their luxury car lineup to change that and really build the highest quality car with a real character they ever had. And while the Xedos line was somewhat let to wither on the vine in later years (as the Japanese economic bubble burst and money was tight) the efforts that originally went into designing and creating them, basically rethinking how to design and build a car from the ground up, resulted in very competitive vehicles. It's just a really nice snippet of how the Japanese auto industry came to rise, only to very rapidly stagnate and crush many people's dreams (the latter part isn't part of the book but I got to write a post about Amati later).

There is kind of another book that complements that. I'll find the title to it (its in the study at the minute) about how an English team was recruited to Mazda for the luxury stuff which went tits-up shortly after they arrived.

[Schaefft]

1 hour ago, R Lutz said:

There is kind of another book that complements that. I'll find the title to it (its in the study at the minute) about how an English team was recruited to Mazda for the luxury stuff which went tits-up shortly after they arrived.

Would love to know what the title is. I mentioned Amati before, the Xedos range of cars really were supposed to be the corner stones of this new luxury car brand (in the US anyway) but it all folded right before it was made a reality. Jalopnik had a great article about it all and the V12 flagship that was supposed to sit at the top of it all:

https://jalopnik.com/it-was-japan-s-most-daring-car-then-the-economy-implod-1826265571

Obviously the V12 never made it out of the prototype stage, the Amati 500 become the Eunos 800 in Japan (there in good company with the triple rotor Eunos Cosmo though, in itself an incredible luxury car for 1989) and Xedos 9 in Europe and the design of the Amati 1000 apparently became the last generation 929 in '96ish, which in my eyes was a major step backwards in design, like almost all newly launched Mazdas after 1994 following their direct successors. It took them a decade to really come out with cars again that people would find genuinely pretty, interesting and competitive with the new Mazda 6 and RX-8.

Unfortunately without a premium sales channel the Xedos 9 was seen as a fancy Mazda without real premium image (despite the engineering that went into it), things were worse in the US where the bigger, more powerful 929 was actually cheaper the Millenia. Even Eunos eventually died in Japan and the cars barely saw any development aside from an extensive facelift after 10 years that changed nothing but cosmetics (which wasn't even available in the UK anymore).

It's all quite sad really. Mazda did extremely well, were ambitious and took chances which showed in their early 90s cars. Just a few years later and everything new aside the MX-5 was no better than most other appliances on wheels you'd expect from Toyota.

[Spottedlaurel]

8 minutes ago, Schaefft said:

It's all quite sad really. Mazda did extremely well, were ambitious and took chances which showed in their early 90s cars. Just a few years later and everything new aside the MX-5 was no better than most other appliances on wheels you'd expect from Toyota.

Yup, case in point.....

 

And Mazda managed to add rust too!

Good luck with the 9! Very interested to see what you make of it.

[Schaefft]

10 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Yup, case in point.....

 

And Mazda managed to add rust too!

Good luck with the 9! Very interested to see what you make of it.

Fun fact: A GW 626 estate with the 1.8 was the slowest car I've ever owned! It didn't feel any more advanced than the Xedos 6 I bought a few months later, despite being a generation ahead. 

The Xedos 6 was probably the best 500 quid (590 Euro) car I ever bought. I didn't realize it back then but they really were great cars. The V6 was so quiet that you couldn't hear the engine running at idle.

Unfortunately I understeered it into a curb on the roundabout outside Gateshead Metrocentre. With one of the control arms snapped, TÜV pretty much expired and a cheap E38 already waiting I called the local scrapyard to take it away, not without taking some parts off it though.

Fast forward 11 years and an early Mica blue manual V6 with the factory spoiler is another car I must own again. They were already getting crusty back then so finding a clean one is near impossible now. They do exist in Germany but now at appropriate asking prices 

[TrabbieRonnie]

Great car and interesting read Shaefft, glad it's found an enthusiastic owner!

Good luck with it, I've developed an appreciation for Mazda's way of doing things myself these last few years.

[Schaefft]

9 hours ago, TrabbieRonnie said:

Great car and interesting read Shaefft, glad it's found an enthusiastic owner!

Good luck with it, I've developed an appreciation for Mazda's way of doing things myself these last few years.

Mazda often try to go their own way when it comes to engine technology which is commendable, while always emphasizing beautiful (not just distinctive for the sake of it) design and driving pleasure, more than any other manufacturer outside of Alfa Romeo possibly. If it wasn't for their reputation to rust they'd always be at the very top of my recommendations for anyone looking for a great daily.

With the brakehoses for the Maserati still not here and and the weather shite for the last few days lets have a quick look at the Xedos' service history.

As mentioned before, the car was owned by an enthusiast since 2001 until it was donated for a charity run to the person I bought it from sometime in 2021. I have pretty much the entire service history and all MOTs since then, always a great sight:

And despite its age it didn't need all that much. It received a few suspension components a few years back and was looked at to cure a misfire when cold (very much what I might see right now). Aside from regularly services and the occasional tires things are looking good. It also means that its probably on its original coilpacks and timing belt though, which unfortunately are items that require a significant amount of labor (apparenly Mazda prefered to just drop the engine when doing the timing belt on a Millercycle).

A few other interesting finds though:

I had no idea why V5s changed their color from red to blue but there we go. Certainly an interesting way of resolving the issue... There was also this:

Oh oh

"At Mazda, we're always looking to improve." By not having your face shredded from airbag shrapnel? Turns out Mazda wasn't spared from the huge Takata airbag recall a few years back, my C5 A6 Avant had to show up at the Audi dealer for the same problems. Fortunately it was all sorted on this one before it was sold on.

So yeah, the paperwork does back up the caring, long-term ownership history of the car, now I just need to make sure that it receives the more in-depth TLC these Millercycles usually demand at age. The German Xedos community, albeit nearly dead now, created some fantastic resources in the past and parts are still fairly easy to come by. It's currently at my mate's again to be stored there until he comes up to Newcastle again (he originally planned to come up to look at and buy a '69 Thunderbird abandoned without engine in someone's yard). Until then I'll be busy with the Maserati, house move (hopefully) and just time off somewhere else anyway. I took this photo while I had the chance though, incredible to think that these were launched around the same time:

On a side note, I'm relatively sure that these 17" alloys were a UK market exclusive thing on the Millercycle, the Euro Xedos 9 kept its old wheels and the Millenias had different designs in both the US and Japan. They suit it well but Im almost inclined to put the early wheels, grille (with the old Mazda logo) and gingercators on it, similar to the car Best Motoring tested against competitors when new:

 

[Schaefft]

The Maserati wasn't done in time for the NC500 trip last weekend so the Z3 filled the gap, and to be honest, I'm glad I chose it. Trips like these are always a great way to bond with a car and the Z3 was amazing. Just enough power, agile but reasonably comfortable and the option to put the roof down made it a great choice for Scotland's windy single lane roads and motorways alike.

No issues with the car either, despite revving the hell out of it's inline six for hours and being anything but gentle to it. If anything it might run a little smoother now, Italian tune-ups work!

There were some properly stunning locations along the route, I could have stopped every mile or so for one amazing photo opportunity after the other on some occasions, definitely recommend doing the NC500 at least once. It'll probably be the last longer trip the Z3 will do for the year, with the weather getting crappier and days shorter it'll remain off the roads for a few months.

Here's what the rest of the group brought. At least one of these should look familiar with some of the shiters here. Also missing is one rental MX-5 that unfortunately ended up in the ditch (noone harmed).

While I was gone the new brake hoses for the Maserati arrived, I crawled underneath the car after work again and replaced the torn hose which hopefully was the last thing required for an MOT. I won't be around from this weekend for the next 2 weeks though, any test will have to wait until I'm back.

I may have also done another buy while in Scotland... I'm more and more developing into the person buying all the other member's MOT fail candidates. This one should be quite exciting though. Should have some more news once I'm back!

[paulplom]

How long does it take to do the NC500? Are there plenty of petrol stations on the route? I'd love to do it but only have a petrol nissan juke at present.

[loserone]

We did it before it was a thing, 48 hours in a K11 Micra with L plates, sleeping in the car.

 

She passed her test the next week with a lot more confidence than the previous attempt. 

[Schaefft]

2 hours ago, paulplom said:

How long does it take to do the NC500? Are there plenty of petrol stations on the route? I'd love to do it but only have a petrol nissan juke at present.

We've broken the whole tour up into 3 days with 4-5h of driving each day. Obviously getting up to Inverness can take a little while as well if you want to take your own car.

1 hour ago, loserone said:

We did it before it was a thing, 48 hours in a K11 Micra with L plates, sleeping in the car.

 

She passed her test the next week with a lot more confidence than the previous attempt. 

48h definitely is doable if you are quick and drive most of the day. We did a few stops and arrived at our stays relatively early to keep things not too tiring. I'd be shattered after 2 days in a Micra😂

[hairnet]

9 hours ago, Schaefft said:

I'd be shattered after 2 days in a Micra😂

[HMC]

I did it in the ex @Mr_Bo11ox current @catsinthewelder rover 220 in 2015. Verdict: WUD DO AGAIN

[Schaefft]

15 minutes ago, HMC said:

I did it in the ex @Mr_Bo11ox current @catsinthewelder rover 220 in 2015. Verdict: WUD DO AGAIN

Excellent, no R8s up there during our visit but someone took their souped up Corsa B shite down the serpentines.

[Schaefft]

We are back in the US (Nashville) but being on another continent doesn't mean theres no time for shite related activities!

As with many JDM imports my Japanese market Infiniti Q45 came with a cheapo aftermarket touchscreen headunit (original radio FM frequencies would only get up to 90.0). Well, with the Chinese radio seemingly dead I went on eBay and bought an OEM US-market Q45 radio for it!

I've compared the connectors on the back before and it should hopefully be plug and play, I'm not sure if I'll need an antenna cable adapter for it though. For 35 quid it's hard to go wrong though, nowhere in the world I'll get one for less. It arrived before we even made it to the house.

I'm also looking for a set of original wheel trims for the Riviera. There's a set for 400$ on eBay but they'd come from Canada. I might as well just send them straight to the UK in that case. Unfortunately just going to the junkyard isn't really much of an option either anymore. Health and safety regulations have long made it to Tennessee as well and the usual pick-and-pull places have a relatively large turnover and mostly stock late '00s stuff. It's really becoming increasingly hard to find parts for anything 90s, even here in the States.

If we have any local shooters that can recommend a place in central TN and surrounding areas, let me know! I need a few bits for various cars.

In non-shite news, this is the rental I picked. AWD G70, unfortunately not the V6 but still around 300hp 250hp. I originally picked a Chrysler 300 as those are naturally on my potential future purchase radar. Chrysler finally stopped production late last year so they won't be around as conventional rentals much longer. I was offered a Genesis (was hoping for a V6 G80) or a Caddy CT4 as alternative, Genesis is pretty obscure in the UK unfortunately so I wanted to give one a go. I'm sure the 300 is going anywhere anytime soon. Seems like a nice car so far!

[R Lutz]

On 14/10/2024 at 19:10, Schaefft said:

Here's what the rest of the group brought. At least one of these should look familiar with some of the shiters here. Also missing is one rental MX-5 that unfortunately ended up in the ditch (noone harmed).

What group was that?

Was the MX-5 stupidity or a deceptively tricky chassis biting back?

[Schaefft]

35 minutes ago, R Lutz said:

What group was that?

Was the MX-5 stupidity or a deceptively tricky chassis biting back?

A few people from here plus a few people from Oppositelock way back. The corner the car spun out in was quite slippery for some reason (the conditions and road surface were no different to anywhere else), I could feel it myself going through it but somehow the MX5 really started to slide and fishtail straight into the ditch. The car looked fine but rocks underneath crushed the chassis rails so it was a write-off.

[R Lutz]

I'd love a MX-5, but the tales of losing them unexpectedly scare the life out of me. 

[Schaefft]

Not shite at all but been offered a test drive in a Rivian R1T today.

665hp in this spec. Sounds like a lot but without the drama of a screaming engine (and probably quite a bit of weight) it doesn't feel mind-blowingly fast. I felt the same about the Model S P90D. We also happened to encounter it's Tesla rival a block down the road:

First time I've seen either of them in person.

To balance things out, here's some actual shite: