The future of dieselshite: is it bleak, or bollocks?

[Bren]

Would you all shut the fuck up about LPG, I've enjoyed its lower cost for many years and the last thing I want is the Diesel crowd jumping in so its price overtakes petrol.

Have to spare a thought for all those Diesel owners who believed the far fetched hype regarding global warming and bought conscientiously, all 0.001% of them, it's the economy myth which has replaced petrols, added god knows how many more cars to the road, justified vehicle obesity and led to every road I travel being bunged with insanely bloated fucking monstrosities. Whatevs about pollution figures, air traffic vs industrial vs motahs, in the real world, when I step out of my door I get that foul stank of modern dervs, it's not factories or planes that converge every evening, completely on the pavement outside every shithole junkfood outlet, engine running with a scowl faced guardbloater filling the passenger space surrounded in a fog of filth.

We're rammed with Diesels to some extent thanks to house prices, many cannot afford to live near where the work is, public transport can't cater for the scale of the mess, but it's more than just the figure, wages haven't kept up. Unless you run a V12 the roof over your head is the biggest expense, it's the reason to go to work, actually you don't get a job without an address, but now a normal working man can't buy a home for his family? What if he swallows his pride and sends the missus out to work, she can earn the same as him, sometimes more! No? Still not happening? It's almost as if money isn't worth as much, or most of us have suffered a big old paycut.

What class of cunts are running this show?

You have echoed my sentiments - people have been priced out of petrol cars.

[meggersdog]

Having just wanged 15 litres of fresh veg oil in the tank of the Discovery I was wondering if NOx and particulates have been tested on biodiesel and SVO.

[Cleon-Fonte]

I might be a cantankerous old git but i am starting to smell a rat... 1st we have the brexit vote...then the govt having talks with nissan to keep the jobs in sunderland if we leave the eu.... then this diesel malarkey that they are the invention of the devil... then i start to see more and more adverts pushing the nissan leaf and the nv-200 electric van... coincidence or a helping hand from the govt for staying in uk? 

 

I doubt it's some Nissan-influenced plot by the government to keep the car factories churning over. After all, Nissan's European output seems to be predominantly diesels (on which they actually turn a profit, unlike the electric stuff).

 

The diesel bashing started across Europe well before Brexit, albeit on a smaller scale, with the latest impetus no doubt a result of Volkswagen's indiscretions bringing the issue to much greater public attention (because it's not like we've known about the harm caused by diesels since the 1980s or anything). That and the air quality in UK cities being absolutely dreadful, with urban pollution levels consistently exceeding annual EU limits in just a few days.

[somewhatfoolish]

Having just wanged 15 litres of fresh veg oil in the tank of the Discovery I was wondering if NOx and particulates have been tested on biodiesel and SVO.

No idea about SVO/WVO but bio(methyl ester to give it its sunday name) is supposed to burn much cleaner than dinosaur extract.

[2MB]

No idea about SVO/WVO but bio(methyl ester to give it its sunday name) is supposed to burn much cleaner than dinosaur extract.

Highly unlikely to ever happen for many reasons but it would be hilarious to see 200tdis, XUDs and OM603s allowed into the ULEZ based on their favourable NOx emissions

[Timewaster]

I might be a cantankerous old git but i am starting to smell a rat... 1st we have the brexit vote...then the govt having talks with nissan to keep the jobs in sunderland if we leave the eu.... then this diesel malarkey that they are the invention of the devil... then i start to see more and more adverts pushing the nissan leaf and the nv-200 electric van... coincidence or a helping hand from the govt for staying in uk?

That is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

 

 

 

 

So it's probably right!

[forddeliveryboy]

Not heard this one before. Must be an opportunity for an academic study from the University of Up The Khyber to predict OMG Cancerforeverybody caused by particles from brake pads and wearing tyres..

It's [non-exhaust road vehicle emissions] reliable data which has been around for years and which the media has chosen not to mention too much - probably because they realise there's a limit of environmental warnings which Joe Bloggs can accept.

 

Do little more than measure the mass of friction materials used and it soon becomes clear how large a problem this is now exhausts aren't blowing enough fuel out to power another engine.

 

2013 research suggested 50% was a reliable estimate, if anything an underestimate which was steadily rising. Research into how to go about reducing this muck is in its infancy, someone I've chatted with who knows what's going on mentions little more than keeping wheelarches clean and some method of bagging brake dust.

[garethj]

Electric cars score on this if they use regenerative braking.  There's still the issue of stuff from tyres but perhaps the only way to fix that is with fully autonomous driving with radar so that harsh braking or accelerating doesn't happen.

[DSdriver]

What goes around comes around:

just over a hundred years ago London had a problem. Horseshit I can hear you shouting... and that is the correct answer. All the buses and wagons were horse powered and the amount of poo polution was a severe problem. So they were ever so grateful when the motor bus was invented. How quickly we forget.

[Jim Bell]

Forgive me for being an ignorant but Ive seen a few oldish diesel cars for sale on ebay listed as diesel with lpg conversion. Bring an arrogant smug prick Ive usually just assumed theyd been listed incorrectly but one fella I messaged said his Volvo 940 was running on deisel/lpg.

 

How the arse does that work?

 

Is it fed into the intake like tje busses mentioned earlier, or into the cylinders for friction combustion?!

[Retro_Auto]

There appears to be some sort of consultation going on. The MD of JLR has just tweeted that he's happy to see the difference between old, polluting diesels and new, clean ones has been acknowledged. I'm like, 'hold on a minute. It's modern diesels that are the problem due to horrendous NOx!' He was then banging on about low carbon emissions yadda yadda, when that's not really what's causing concern at the moment.

Have you seen the size of the new JLR Engine plant alongside junction 2 of the M54?

[cros]

Forgive me for being an ignorant but Ive seen a few oldish diesel cars for sale on ebay listed as diesel with lpg conversion. Bring an arrogant smug prick Ive usually just assumed theyd been listed incorrectly but one fella I messaged said his Volvo 940 was running on deisel/lpg.

How the arse does that work?

Is it fed into the intake like tje busses mentioned earlier, or into the cylinders for friction combustion?!

In the early 60s when the biggest mainstream wheeled agric. tractor you could buy in the UK put out around 60bhp some people resorted to strapping a large cylinder of propane to the mudguards and piping the gas into the inlet manifold. You knew you'd given it too much when coolant pissed out of the cylinder head joint, but the contractor I used to work for reckoned it could give 50% more power. For a while.

Tinleytech used to sell a conversion but obviously the fuel savings were not as great as converting a petrol engine as some diesel is being used all the time. I've seen some lorries using it and presumably emissions are reduced but I doubt whether anyone has bothered to measure the effect because it could prolong the life of old vehicles and we just need to scrap them and build new ones for a clean future.

London cabbies also tried diesels converted to LPG. Motor and Diesel from Ruskington used to do a cylinder head and appropriate ignition system to achieve this. I've asked a few drivers what went wrong, the most common answer was that service intervals were shortened which is only to be expected compared with a diesel. By the same token I'd expect the downtime would pale compared with an electric vehicle having to be charged.

The lack of joined up thinking and intervention of vested interests in tackling pollution beggers belief.

Mention of the problem with horse drawn transport in London reminds me that there are still 8.6 million arseholes in an area of 700 square miles, some of whose emissions recently found their way into the Thames without those in charge 'noticing.' A good number of farts wasted too, enough to power 6 old type Routemasters.

[Junkman]

Can we all agree that increasing or introducing new taxes for driving cars doesn't make the air cleaner?

[sierraman]

It made me get rid of my diesel and purchase a petrol. I was really concerned about Siddiq Khan choking to death stood behind a Talbot Horizon Diesel, so I got rid of it.

 

Although the failing injectors and the likely four figure bill might have helped.

[conkerman]

LPG was considered/used for trucks as it reduces CO2 as it has a better carbon:hydrogen ratio.

 

Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk

[dieselnutjob]

In thirty years time will we (or our classic loving kids) be able to buy petrol, diesel or LPG?  99% of the cars on the road will be electric or hydrogen or something by then.

 

If you have a classic diesel for the odd car show or whatever at least you will be able to make your own diesel.

 

I suppose that natural gas will probably still be available for cooking and heating so CNG is possibility.

[2MB]

I think the truth is that petrol, diesel and all other crude-based products will continue to be available and used until they run out or a global catastrophe happens

[UltraWomble]

I bought a LARGE diesel because

 

i) I have fertile loins and more than 2 children

ii) when we purchased said LARGE diesel we had a 1800kg to tow

iii) Umm, that's about it really - if I could have found a large Pez that did what we want I might have bought that, but at the time we didn't so we ended up with the C8 ( now into its 8th Glorious year as Womble lugabout)

 

Whilst looking on autotrader for a similar sized car they are all pretty much DERV or if Pez, they are Auto - which SWMBO wont drive.

 

Flaps :/

[Dirk Diggler]

What goes around comes around:

just over a hundred years ago London had a problem. Horseshit I can hear you shouting... and that is the correct answer. All the buses and wagons were horse powered and the amount of poo polution was a severe problem. So they were ever so grateful when the motor bus was invented. How quickly we forget.

The reason why Georgian houses have steps to the front doors and generally their 'grand rooms' upstairs; literally designed to keep grand people above the shite of the streets

[DodgeRover]

Forgive me for being an ignorant but Ive seen a few oldish diesel cars for sale on ebay listed as diesel with lpg conversion. Bring an arrogant smug prick Ive usually just assumed theyd been listed incorrectly but one fella I messaged said his Volvo 940 was running on deisel/lpg.

 

How the arse does that work?

 

Is it fed into the intake like tje busses mentioned earlier, or into the cylinders for friction combustion?!

It's better described as lpg fumigation, a small amount of lpg is introduced with the air as it's sucked in, this aids a clean burn and produces between a little more and a lot more power depending on how much is added

[ProgRocker]

If the government wants to pay me £2k for my Almera N16 diesel to get it off the road then I'll gladly sign it over. So long as I don't have to buy a brand new car.

[forddeliveryboy]

Electric cars score on this if they use regenerative braking.  There's still the issue of stuff from tyres but perhaps the only way to fix that is with fully autonomous driving with radar so that harsh braking or accelerating doesn't happen.

Compare like with like and they do, however they're typically a quarter heavier and car regen-braking isn't even 50% efficient.

 

And while we're considering the whole picture, I bet EV brake calipers will be seizing on a little through lack of use in much greater numbers, making more brake dust and more forests burned in the power stations.

[forddeliveryboy]

Don't get me wrong, I love EVs and would if I was going to splurge so much money on a rapidly-depreciating asset, but the naievty of some of their lickers pushes me to talk about the picture in the round.

 

In the meantime, an efficient old diesel running on waste vegoil makes most sense for the hard-working everyday hack. It kills people much less than buying supermarket meat or barbeques. Putting those two together is beyond lethal, surely? One step away from heating the house with old tyres.

[Pillock]

Can we all agree that increasing or introducing new taxes for driving cars doesn't make the air cleaner?

Not directly no, but financially penalising people either makes them think twice about what vehicle they're using and whether public transport could be a better idea, OR it generates more money that *could be* used to pay for said new greener public transport.

[tommotech]

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airquality/air-quality-plan-for-tackling-nitrogen-dioxide/?dm_i=142S,4XL7D,GBWF4Z,IQ0FW,1

 

If you really can't sleep have a read of the above, you can even send your views on the consultation.

It appears to me that the government have thrown the problem 'over the fence' to the local authorities, who are totally under-resourced to even understand the problem, let alone how to deal with it - other than charge people.

 

Any views......?

[lisbon_road]

A few thoughts.

 

If I had a whole lot of money, I'd like to get one of these portable emission measuring systems and try a load of cars, mostly older, including lpg, and find out what the emissions really are. 

 

They seem to be comparing lpg taxis for London and hybrid petrol ones.  There is a sense that the hybrid petrol will be better.  Perhaps it will, but my thought is that the lpg is so much cheaper by converting existing taxis that it would get a load better emissions for a better cost.  There seems to be always a risk that we go for a new technology only to find a better one comes along: take all those Borismasters, where now everyone is looking at 100% electric buses.  So the hybrid petrol taxis probably aren't the end goal anyway.

 

Thanks for sharing; it is a bit dry but interesting nonetheless.

[Hendry]

My suspicion is that the fuckers want rid of cars completely, get us all on public transport, and when theyve achieved that they can put the prices of bus and train travel up to extremely high prices to a captive audience who have no other option but to pay it or dont get to work and earn money. 

 

People mention autonomous cars, or ones you can order like Uber, but I just keep picturing those Johnny Cabs from Total Recall. For me, as im sure the rest of you, a car isnt just a means of transport for me, its a hobby, an interest, much like football, trainspotting, stamp collecting, sci-fi etc. is to other people, but not only that, for me its a sense of freedom, I can go out anywhere I want whenever I want, day or night on a whim, If I fancy a McDs at 3am, jump in the car and go, no hassle, Need to go to a family emergency, anything really, you just jump in your car and go, and I somehow feel they are trying to take that freedom away from us. The motorist is an easy target, they can effectively charge us what they like and we have no option but to pay it because we need to use our cars, its a bit like how they heavily tax cigarettes and alcohol, claiming theyve done it to put people off doing it, nonsense, if that was the real aim they could easily ban it or make it illegal, they do it because of the revenue it brings in, which if people did quit smoking and drinking theyd be fucked without!

 

While we are at it, the state of the roads are truly awful, they are worse than ive ever seen for craters and potholes and uneven surfaces, we pay "road fund licence" do we not, so why isnt that money being spent on the roads then? 

[Dirk Diggler]

6% of the UKs electric comes from one of the largest polluters in the country, Drax power station

 

It's spurious to just measure emissions from the car itself; you have to consider its manufacture, the source of the power it uses, it's lifespan, and how recyclable it is.

 

Sound bites suit those who have something to sell; and when it's the government selling a concept, vested interests are never far behind

[Sir Snipes]

While we are at it, the state of the roads are truly awful, they are worse than ive ever seen for craters and potholes and uneven surfaces, we pay "road fund licence" do we not, so why isnt that money being spent on the roads then?

Nope, it hasn't been "RFL" for several years now.

[jonathan_dyane]

Not since the 1930s!

 

Re the dieselgate what continues to fuck me off is that despite (as the attached articles confirm) even euro 6 diesels putting out more Nox than even euro 3 petrols (and tbh I suspect more than euro 1 petrols) all limiting proposals for overpolluted cities I have seen are to outlaw pre euro 4 vehicles both diesel AND petrol. How does this make sense, particularly as pre euro 4 cars are comparitively rare; it will penalise people with petrol cars that aren't part of the problem and is unlikely to make any great change to air quality.