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Range Rover resto - 1972 project - Plan B, Phase2 - Paint n' detailing... Page 22

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since then has been an increasing flurry of activity, family drama and a wedding anniversary. love it

Celebrated finish of the shoot and as we were passing the local seemed rude not to pop in

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Fix up the tools, which still need paint, or cleaning, or nothing

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and the cover which was a ballsache trying to work out how to install 

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One issue that occured on the photoshoot was that the speedo started to click and read anything from 0-70mph constantly

I had another speedo head which I swapped and it worked fine. However Mileage was different on the odometer. 

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Oh Lord! what have I done?

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Worked though and speedo is now slightly over reading up to 60 mph

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spare wheel fitted up and uber rare boot floor trim installed. 

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marvelled at the through the car look, before I noticed that the frigging o/s/f tyre was flat!!! arghhh

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Nipped off down to Exeter for a 36hour holiday break with Mrs thestag for our wedding anniversary

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Today I managed to invest nearly 4 hours of my time in getting the pin holes for the badge locations right.

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I installed the wing/bonnet mirrors also, now the speedo drive has fucked itself again

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190mile trip tomorrow in it.....

 

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190 mile trip went well

started with a fill up, just over £85

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Used a litre of water, loose hoseclip, barely any oil and drove beautifully. Estimated 17-18mpg which for a steady cruise at 60mph is horrific but that is good for one of these.

Only really issues, Mrs Thestag cannot wind the keep fit windows and both internal handles are difficult to open the doors. Oh and Prince of Darkness descended and rendered wiper park inoperative.

Replaced the bezels on the centre console instruments. BUT the clock surround is larger, stripped and powder coated it. The flippin clock works too

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Then continued with door catch and window winder fixes. Passenger side was easy, the cat even came to have a nosey

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Drivers side needed the door catch out of the door, there was a rod bent which once straightened out allowed the catch to work perfectly

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Test drive for rattles etc found the indicators had now packed up.

Long story short the same green feed wire from the fuseboard runs to both wiper park and indicator circuits. took me an hour and a half to unravel it all and yank the old wire out of the loom.

Thursday and nearly 500miles test drive was bodyshop day to cut back the paint for polish, the bonnet that I painted came up really well

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However it is a tiny shade different from the scuttle/deck panel! that'll teach me to buy paint from two suppliers

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Quick bit of expertise from Steve and it is blended in and looks perfect

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Cut back and polish done

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I need to get down to Devon! Blue Range Rover needs an MoT and I need it back.

Did all the welding and stuff, there were a few holes to deal with, and a pair of loose front wheel bearings and it passed

see next post...

I did have a monster clearout of container, shifted shit around and installed another rack

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Back home again on Monday this week, first job up was brave trousers on and drill holes for bonnet badges. this is half way through and I know the last R is wonky, isn't any more :D

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I did get the electrics properly sorted this time, installed the dash and a refurbed "wireless"

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Pissed  off with the terrible quality of the boot seal and unable to find the original! I never throw anything away - so I have just not found it yet. I did find that old door seals could be trimmed to fit. After cleaning and conditioning they are on and the tailgate closes easily now. and is still water tight.

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Badges are now finished on the front, looks great

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Today was spectacularly shite weather and everything, failed to assemble a stag engine that is fighting me every step of the way. but did cheer myself up with a new tool roll that Sister thestag made up for me from an original pattern.

Looks the dogs danglies

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Jobs left to do

fit trim to front quarter lights

sort paint on drivers side a-post

get mr dent to address dent in door skin

sort that dash vent

sort the boot floor matting

fix the rear wings to the mud splash guard

tidy small areas of the floor matting

fit the ashtray

change engine coolant

change engine oil and re torque the cylinder heads

give it a monster clean and polish

Drive it up to Silverstone on Wednesday. 

Bugger, then deal with the hole in my life :( which is possible which I am having a shite week. ;)

Fatha thestag needs his doing to the same spec / standard so that will keep me busy :D

Episode 23 is on it's way chaps

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Daily Driver MoT was last Monday, I travelled back to Devon Thursday evening and cracked on with that tinsy hole on Friday.

the hole was passenger side under the c post on the arch, didnt take a lot of poking around to find lots of fresh air

As the outer arch was already fucked and patched and I had another new unit, it was first off

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flange is tidy enough but behind the c post against the inner wheelarch is a world of space, to depressed to take a piccy, 

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I pulled back the carpet to save it catching fire and found this load of fun, boot floor up against the wheel arch, you canimagine how much was left after I gently prodded it.

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New boot sides, arches and boot floor are going in very soon. Shame I didnt have the bits already because it would have been a good place to start.

Cut a big chunk out and welding in a huge patch, boot floor no longer flexes

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Next up I lined up the new arch and ragged it into place

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Then started on the inner arch sections behind the c-post

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That rust extended it's way nearly all the way down to the lpg tank which sits in the spare wheel well.

A-hem yes that is it still there, I simply could not be arsed to remove it, no smell of gas and tbh the plastic petrol tank is just to the left under the boot floor.

#don't try this at home kids

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The last two holes, one right above the body mounting, and just beside the seat mounting

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Ran out of fucking welding wire. I did have some more but ran out of patience, finished the job on Saturday

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MoT was issued on Monday, usual advisories about oil leaks tadts

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2 hours ago, Momentary Lapse Of Reason said:

Where do you get your wheel arch panels from?

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The ones I've been able to find are pressed out of much thinner metal than they should be

- or are you just working around the thin metal problem?

pretty sure there is only one manufacturer is pressing these, I bought them from YRM solutions 

https://yrmit.co.uk/product-category/range-rover-classic-lse/body-range-rover-classic-lse/

They are thin but not so much that I blow through them

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1 hour ago, richardthestag said:

pretty sure there is only one manufacturer is pressing these, I bought them from YRM solutions 

https://yrmit.co.uk/product-category/range-rover-classic-lse/body-range-rover-classic-lse/

They are thin but not so much that I blow through them

Ta!, I got mine from Paddock. 

I'd doubt I be blowing through as I'll be spot and mig puddling them on.

 

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54 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Richard I haven't forgotten our conversation at Shitefest about my 1985 Range Rover, I have just fired an email to the film company who have got it to see where we are with it.

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Be interested to find out what they say :D

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Auction happened, car didn't sell, I was very disappointed. I struggled not to take this as a personal kick in the teeth, yeah I know etc etc it is just me

Lots of discussion with auction house and other dealers to understand why. 

Pre Auction actions, turned into a huge rush to get everything sorted in time. Also loaned the car to a chum to use for his photography business

Never did find a suitable foot pump, but the tool kit looks great

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Some bits here, 2 days before auction d-day I was unhappy with and didn't have the time to correct

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Interior I was/am really happy with

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MW/LW radiomobile set I am really happy with. looks the part too.

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Brave pills taken and marked up to position the rear letters. needs 20 3.5mm holes to be drilled in exactly the correct location.

#2 son buggered the rear number plate with a pressure washer, I asked him to do under the car and somehow he thought that included the rear number plate. £50 down the toilet and no time to reorder before auction. bugger

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started out well

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here the letters are hanging in the holes with no inserts. the O however has fatter legs and needs no inserts. It was wonky and that irritated me. I tried to elongate the hole with a drill, which predicable broke because I was being a fool. and stuck a nice 2" scratch across my new paint!!!!

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Engine was serviced, first service for running in. 

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Wednesday before auction and looking gorgeous. cleaned, waxed, stickered up, running perfectly

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ready for prep for auction, I left it, feeling sad but confident that it would sell.

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So what went wrong? 

Maybe a bad day for the auction, It went up at 4.10 on Sunday afternoon, Saturdays auction had good results for classic cars but poor for sports cars. My son and Wife went up to watch, I couldn't face it. My lad videoed it from the balcony, nobody on the phones, limited interest from the dozen or so on the floor. It went to £38k which I might have been inclined to snap at but it was my bid due to the reserve. Auctioneer faced with apathy as with lots of items that afternoon quickly moved on. double duck farts. I consumed lots of alcohol which was probably not the best thing to do.

Next morning analysis found that 28 lots out of 66 on Sunday sold. Only 8 achieved the lower estimate. just one breached the upper estimate. I set off bruised and emotionally beaten to go collect the car with Mrs Thestag.

The chaps at the auction including the MD gave me some really interesting feedback. There was quite a bit of interest in the car Friday and Saturday but one by one that interest evaporated by 4pm Sunday. Just my luck. Bodywork and paintwork was root cause, I can understand that. Many of the other cars here are investment / wrap em up and hide them in a barn type vehicles. My car is a useable classic. It is hard to justify a £10k paint job really but that is what the punters were looking for. Buyers can be fickle.

Reserve also hampered the team in getting interest in the car, I could have lost my shirt on this but there are ways around that I found out after the event.

I found that original, unobtainium features for this car that were showing their age actually hindered the interest. plastic mats and basic headlining did not help those who just didn't know what these cars were like in 1972. They would much rather see later window trim, available new, looking fantastic but obviously not period correct. Patina would appear to be a dirty word to many. This surprised me, a lot! This view has been backed up by specialists and dealers I have spoken to since.

So originality and Patina are out, looking fabulous and a £10k mirror finish paint job are in :D Somewhat paradoxically not having the correct age of engine, even though the engine fitted is dressed to look period and runs perfectly caused significant damage to the interest. Go figure, you could not make this up, but like I have been told buyers are fickle.

Ultimately it came down to wrong day in the wrong auction. 

I am feeling less sorry for myself and moving forwards wiser and better prepared for this now, I have to thank the auction team for that, they really were very good at helping post auction.

So what next....

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sorry to hear it didn't sell :( 

I hope plan B goes well and I look forward to the content it will produce at least! :)

(interesting to hear about the engine age thing, god forbid you try sell a Routemaster bus there then! im pretty sure every Routemaster is made up of bits from every other Routemaster :mrgreen: )

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On the paint front, I have blocked the entire car back using 1500 wet and dry paper, this has eradicated even the most determined or orange peel.

I managed to find a few high spots which are being dealt with.

The leading lower edge of the drivers door has been adjusted using violence, the upper leading edge needs further adjustment. BUT it looks a shit load better

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the scuttle area really needs taking back to bare and starting again. thinking about that. I do have a spare skuttle / deck panel.

Flatted paint still looks shiny, I have just gone mad at getting it super smooth and shiny. 2 days of blocking and polishing I am ready for touching in paint in local areas.

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On the drive back from Silverstone I had to stamp on the brakes quite hard, car veered to the right violently. I found two issues, n/s/r hub seal had failed and contaminated one pad. This was fixed easily. BUT then I found that the o/s/r caliper was leaking fluid past the inner piston seal. I rebuilt it again but same fault reappeared. Losing interest I bought a new pair of calipers with metric M10 threads.

Brake issues are resolved. BUT I have now noticed that one front piston in the n/s caliper is damp with fluid. I have cleaned it back, driven to Devon and will check again. Any issue a pair of new calipers are going on. Means that I will have to remake brake lines but whatever

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Numberplate next, bought a BSAU MoT compliant sticker 

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removered the letters

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applied the sticker and found it A. see through ffs and B. unlikely it is of a BSAU standard. sent back with a cat turd in the jiffy bag

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Got onto the original supplier of the plates, "no you will need to buy another plate complete" when I asked if I could just buy a blank! ok see ya

Found another supplier who is prepared to sell me a blank so will report back next week on success,

In the mean time drove to Devon last Friday for paint work in the barn. A nice steady 70-75 all the way and pleased to get 19.1 MPG on a brim to brim comparison. That is not bad for an old dinosaur!

Prep today, paint tomorrow. watch this space

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To be honest, I think I can understand certain buyers being put off this car.

I've had a classic ('92 3.9 manual Vogue)  and I'm well aware of how badly Land Rover products are/were built but putting myself in the position of spending £50-60k on a restored early 2 door I'd want it to look like it had just rolled out of Lode Lane. "Patina" and "1000 hour restoration" don't belong in the same sentence.

Non-original door rubbers, versus cracked original rubbers? New ones please.

And did you put it in the auction with a cracked steering wheel?

 

However, in an effort not to sound like a complete dick may I suggest putting on consignment with a dealer...

You're probably already aware but Huddersfield Land Rover Centre and Graeme Hunt are the two places I'd start looking if I did want a good early RR.

 

 

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Ok, back to being a complete dick.

In this shot, it looks like there is paint peeling off the inner wheel arch. Would caution buyers have seen this view?

 

 

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Happy with complete Dick type feedback, it is more often than not helpful and doesn't bother me.

Like I said in the video this whole thing is a learning exercise for me, first car I have ever shoved through auction, feedback from them has been really useful.

I had already put in a wedge of research into cars being sold through vendors prior to auction, ok Graham Hunt is a league of his own. But even there you can see defects in some of the very low res images that he posts on his website.  Cars being sold by other high profile traders look as if they have been painted with a shovel. By comparison mine was superb, (in my opinion). I also went down the road of originality even if some of the components are a step beyond patinated ;) . This is my personal preference and now I understand :) I would walk past lines of over restored (in my eyes) cars to look at a rusty Allegro, but not many others would.

I spent a huge amount of time and money sourcing period correct components and fixings, the car will never be in a concourse and thus this effort and cash was entirely wasted. I am wiser as a result

I cannot understand the need for a 10k paint job on a 45k car, that is crackers. especially when so much brand new stuff has far less than perfect paintwork. 

Cracked steering wheel is still on the car, TADTS cannot find another.  Rebuild is not out of the question but enthusiasm is starting to wane under pressure from Mrs thestag, I am stuck in a bit of a cashflow crisis right now so this car has to move on

Paint in the inner wheel arch is schutz, I left the car relatively bare underneath so folk could see the extent and quality of repairs, again i was rong! it will be plastered with inch thick underseal before next auction

I have been busy over the last 2 weeks finishing the body alignment issues with the drivers door and finishing the paint off to a non 1970s orange peel effect, costs here have been in paper, tape compound, polish, wax and 1/2 litre of paint.

Need still to find £750 for the door rubbers!

Mrs did research traders for me, Graham Hunt and others, story pretty similar. could get me the money I wanted (reserve at Silverstone Auctions) but on a commission sale. This could take 2months or 12! I cannot wait for that.

Next auction I have entered the car for is Brightwells at Leominster 4 Sept, It will sell, it is much more aggressively priced, much tidier BUT not concourse, want that go and look at Messrs Kingsley and Twentyten and their prices for cars that are selling.

https://www.kingsleycars.co.uk/range-rover-classics-for-sale/

I have a s3 109 to do next and shift quick. I can make a business out of this, it is hard work but I need to remember to enjoy it also.

Cheers

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Was gutted for you when I read about Silverstone. 

There's a great buyer out there somewhere, who'll really appreciate the original touches and the fact that it runs really well as well as looking a million dollars to the majority of people.

As well as everything you've learned from this one, it's also free advertising. So you may not get as much you want for it, but with a bit of luck a happy owner tells others about a sweary bloke in Devon who knows his stuff, they come to you etc etc

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13 hours ago, richardthestag said:

Happy with complete Dick type feedback, it is more often than not helpful and doesn't bother me.

 

 

Jeez, dont encourage me to be a dick!

 

What exactly did you intend to restore the car to?

Factory fresh? A nice three year old car? A 10 year old RR or a 15 year old heap for carrying labradors around in? 

Putting it into Silverstone Auctions (admittedly i've never been to one) says to me that you're aiming for something very close to factory fresh. 

If you were to take the £45k that you would have accepted for it and spend it on the newest RR you could buy, would it have perished window rubbers and a cracked steering wheel?

 

There's also the inconsistencies, you couldn't get period correct window rubbers or the correct tyre pattern so you bought modern tyres and then stuck the perished, 50 year old window rubbers in.

That cracked wheel  -"they all do that sir". Rusty tailgate - better fix that.

 

And the tool kit doesn't' "look great". It looks like an incomplete rusty collection of scrap thats been rescued from a structurally compromised garden shed (and what the fuck is going on with that boot floor?).

 

The Kingsley car (which has misaligned body panels) doesn't have a complete tool kit either but let me give you two scenarios for these two photos.

Scenario 1: Its 1972, you want a Range Rover but they're still in short supply. You hear of a little country garage that has a new one in Lincoln Green and you drive up there to try and buy it.

The salesman's pestering as you check the car over,  you lift the flap up in the boot you comment on the lack of a foot pump. Quick as a flash, he tells you that Keith (the other salesman) took it this morning to pump up a slow puncture on a Austin 1100 which was traded in at the weekend. He says he'll get the pump for you (but he doesn't).

You pay the £2500  (lack of supply means you are in no position to haggle - about £33k in today's money) with a cheque and enjoy your new Range Rover.

 

Scenario 2: Its 1988 and you're standing outside a run down cottage down a dirt track in remote part of the countryside trying to buy a 16 year old Davos White Range Rover from a strange man in ripped jumper who has three barking dogs. He tells you the tool kit is all there, you lift the flap and see rusty tools but no foot pump. When you mention this he says it broke and he threw it away, he then starts a long, rambling story about Margaret Thatcher and CND. The car drives well and appears structurally sound but the boot and interior have been dog trashed, steering wheel is cracked and the window rubbers are perished.

After an ackward haggle you pay £2500 in used notes (about £6k in today's money) and drive away in your Range Rover whilst mentally making a note of things to fix. 

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Thanks for taking the time and effort to post that ^^. Truth sometimes hurts but I do pay attention, listen and act :D  

Original plan was for a mechanically perfect car, lob some paint at it and shift it quick 15-20k this evolved as I found the state of the body frame. It kind of got out of hand with nut and bolt strip down and powder coating stuff! thus the costs spiralled. All of this happened when this was a hobby and I was working as an IT project manager gah I was miserable in that fucking job. That all changed last October, I was made redundant Yay! (do not mean to be flippant but the fucking job was slowly killing me ) but bugger it suddenly got real!

I prefer a car than is mechanically and electrically perfect, passes an MOT without any issues but is NOT timewarp factory fresh, I like patina, I like that the car shows some history, wears it's years with pride. Kind of called a Patina restoration, quite a few on here have the "do not paint" feedback, impossible for this car but something that I like. Lacquer is lifting on the bonnet of my 93 daily and that is looking tatty now so It will be painted, a cosmetic tidy up but a daily use car that is 26 years old and has 190k on the odometer. Values of Patina restorations are a fraction of those factory fresh investment opportunities that will never see the roads again. 

I fully understand that there are very few who share this view and most of them are on this forum 8) so stepped up to the next level for me which is tidy presentable but showing some history. Big fucking mistake as I found out, fickle buyers could not give a shit about £1400 Kit Kat replica interiors or plastic matting, give them leather and thick carpet. Would have saved me a fortune had I known sooner. 

So what did I do Q4 2018?

I rushed out and bought another 4 rusty wrecks, in hindsight not my best move. It distracted me enough to underestimate the amount of work to complete this car, being an experienced project manager who fully understands the 90% of the effort occurs in the last 10% of the project this was just plain silly of me.

Jaguar Land Rover had issues with their diesel heavy product range (government anti-diesel propaganda after 2 decades of strongly supporting diesel as fuel of the immediate future) and appear to have scaled down their Reborn Programme as a result. All the hype about a strong market for high end cars at £150,000+ started to melt away. My plan to market a less perfect car at 1/3 of this price, which made sense last year, started to melt away at the same time.

Mrs was haranguing me as I suggested it would be ready for sale in late April, MOT was early June and it was still a way off finished. I stuck an ad on Carandclassic with a silly price to keep her off my case. Silverstone Auctions contacted me, asking if I would be interested in entering the car at their flagship auction. Blimey, never been to one either, but was kind of flattered. 

I was forced into a rush for the finish line but stopped 2 furlongs short, what would be acceptable to me is not to others and I just ran out of time. I knew some details on the car were less than perfect, but what the hell various traders are still shifting cars 120k+. Same traders who, post auction, are prepared to take this on and market it in the 60k+ region to net me 40k. I know they have overheads and warranty concerns so this seemed more than acceptable. Lack of cash and no idea how long the above would take moved me onto Plan B

Plan B - sort out the main issues identified at the last auction - the last 2 furlongs if you like and present it to auction early Sept at a giveaway estimate.

The tyres are not new but NOS that have 1999 date markers on them but to the pattern originally used. They are no longer available new in this pattern. I will likely be swapping them for new tubeless tyres and install with tubes (necessary for the riveted rimz) for safety reasons, rather do that than cough my filthy yoghurt over cosmetics but then that is just me it would seem 🙄

Ramble, sorry if you are still reading this ....

The car was never intended to even slightly interest any of the customers of a new Range Rover, I am not sure where that idea came from, I cannot imagine that any classic car would ever interest anyone not specifically in the market for one. Though JLR might just have ballsed up the Defender replacement thus buoying the market for good used examples.

From my experience new cars increasingly leave the driver isolated from the fact there are 4 placemat sized lumps of rubber and gravity that keep them on the straight and narrow. And when it all goes wrong they will be saved by all manner of gadgetry that they falsely believe will protect their life when they drive like a complete pratt. Oh and they can hold conversation with anyone in the car while driving at 90 in lane 3 and keep cool with the latest in whisper quiet climate control.

By comparison any 1970s Range Rover before they started getting luxuried up were faster and better handling* series Land Rovers. That is something that is very difficult to ever change. By 1993 the cars were better insulated and slightly longer legged, had things like carpet, air con, electric windows, ABS and anti roll bars but they are effectively the same car underneath and it shows.

I will paint the tools, I may fit carpet instead of the plastic mats, I am debating with the Mrs about the cost for the door window rubbers, I believe it to be a mistake to not change them, she would rather go on holiday to Croatia with our three sons etc.

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Understand the position, only mentioned new cars to give an idea of what buyers of fully restored cars expect.

I haven't owned any Land Rover product for about 10 years and i'm nowhere near the river counter that you are but i did know that certain bits of early RR interior trim were NLA.

I thought the tyres were new examples of the pattern used on EFI era classics, I wouldn't expect 20 year old tyres on a restored car but most people can't tell how old they are.

I've dipped in and out of this thread ( I havent watched all the sweary videos) but have seen you take the time dismantle some tiny part and restore it to ensure some bigger part that the driver or passenger touched would operate correctly.

I genuinely thought that the car would be factory fresh (even if not 100% correct owing to NLA parts) and you'd be using a shitty stick to beat back the buyers desperate to hand you £60k for it.

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