Black and Silver Plates - legaility

[AMC Rebel]

I always thought this was fixed at 1973 and earlier - but some bod on t'internet reckons it's now sliding along with the 40 year examption.

 

It's one of those things that irks me in my advancing years when it really shouldn't, seeing stuff much too young wearing 'em - but maybe I've been being unfair?

 

BTW as I may have mentioned before - it's hilarious to us who were around at the time of the changeover - back then people couldn't ditch their black and silver pates quick enough and in the run up to the change (at least 3/4 years IIRC) pretty much every new car, despite being entitled to wear the old style plates, had the reflective ones fitted - now all these "original" cars from the late 60s and early 70s have Black and Silver plates they never had when new.

[Ghosty]

That's correct.

 

Is it still legal for buses? I know it was for quite a while into the '80s.

[Eddie Honda]

I always thought this was fixed at 1973 and earlier - but some bod on t'internet reckons it's now sliding along with the 40 year examption.

Read something in the FBHVC Newsletter about it. Something to do with the legislation wording having the unintended consequence of.

 

Edit: FBHVC NEWSLETTER 4/2015 P8. Meeting with DVLA.

 

The legislation wording being this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/regulation/18/made

 

The clause in the relevant Finance Act changes the tax exemption cut-off date in the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act (VERA) 1994 which consequently also makes a vehicle exempt for the purposes of The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001.

 

Or something like that.

[mercrocker]

 

 

It's one of those things that irks me in my advancing years when it really shouldn't, seeing stuff much too young wearing 'em - but maybe I've been being unfair?

 

 

 

Not unfair, just correct. 

  

Its a pet hate of mine as well.   I have a particular dislike of those people who ditch original, correct, reflective plates in favour of generic acrylic black rubbish - often with an incorrect font or an age-related re-issue after somebody's milked the plate.   I would much prefer to see a Riley 1.5 with weathered reflectives that some giffer changed in 1970.    As for the goons who black-plate Mk5 Cortinas and XJ40 Jags.......

 

Rant over.

[Pillock]

That's interesting, I wonder if they meant to change that bit of legislation or whether it was a Friday afternoon copy and paste job.

 

Still, doesn't change the fact that anything after about a J reg looks awful on black and silver, the dealers would have wanted to upgrade their customers to the snazzy new plates as soon as possible. 

Also, the biggest market for B&S plates are black Range Rover Sports where they're going for the monochrome look

[danthecapriman]

I'd be inclined to agree, with one exception.

Yank imports just don't look right with UK yellow/white plates IMHO, black ones look far better on them I think. I wouldn't ever consider reflectives on my 73 Mercury for instance. But I suppose yanks generally wouldn't of been in this country in big numbers anyway so it doesn't look quite so out of place. Besides that, mine wasn't here in 73 so who's to say what's right or wrong, it is legal.

But generally most stuff after about 1970 should have either pressed metal or riveted figures on reflective plates, seeing the old black plates on post 73 cars just doesn't look right.

 

I think the legalities of this changing to fall in line with the tax exemption had a small article in PC mags News section a couple of months back.

 

Edit; while the subject of plates is up, will someone please please start making pressed Serck plates again?

[Austin-Rover]

Pet hate of mine, too. Early white/yellow plates look so much better on stuff from the late 60's onwards. Look at contemporary photographs from the time - not many black/silver plates to be seen!. The rolling tax exemption is great - the rolling black/silver plate entitlement, less so. Still, it'll keep the huge swathes of 'enthusiasts' with no appreciation for historical detail happy.

 

One particularly concerning development in the increasing popularity of these plates is that I'm seeing more and more cars turn up to shows with black/silver plates...in the current post-2001 font. No, no, NO! There is no punishment strong enough for these cretins in particular.

[Vin]

I always thought this was fixed at 1973 and earlier - but some bod on t'internet reckons it's now sliding along with the 40 year examption.

 

It's one of those things that irks me in my advancing years when it really shouldn't, seeing stuff much too young wearing 'em - but maybe I've been being unfair?

 

BTW as I may have mentioned before - it's hilarious to us who were around at the time of the changeover - back then people couldn't ditch their black and silver pates quick enough and in the run up to the change (at least 3/4 years IIRC) pretty much every new car, despite being entitled to wear the old style plates, had the reflective ones fitted - now all these "original" cars from the late 60s and early 70s have Black and Silver plates they never had when new.

 

I have to agree with this...Reflectives came into being in 1967, so I always find anything after about 1968 with black and white/silver looks a bit shit. Has to be raised reflectives though... You are correct that nobody in their right mind buying a car new in that period would want anything other than the brand new plates...In fact a couple of years ago I remember being sat in the beer garden of a Derbyshire pub and an old couple turned up up in a shabby Riley RM complete with faded raised reflectives which had obviously been on longer than any B & W/S plates...that Riley looked...so right

[Richard]

Didn't the riveted black plates have white letters?

[Eddie Honda]

Either / or

 

Rich gits would splash the cash for polished Ace digits.

 

And don't forget the piss-yellow glow of backlit translucent digits.

[mercrocker]

And don't forget the piss-yellow glow of backlit translucent digits.

 

For extra class these should be comprised of individual panels so that chinks of light were visible between each letter and number.

[seth]

 You are correct that nobody in their right mind buying a car new in that period would want anything other than the brand new plates..

 

The original owner of my May '70 built Oxford must not have been in their right minds then.  But then they did buy a Morris Oxford in 1970 so were probably quite traditional in outlook.  Annoyingly one of the original plates went missing during its first restoration.

[mercrocker]

Dealers were still charging extra for reflectives at that time.   Quite a few relatives of mine would have told them to poke it and gone for "standard" plates.   There was at least one I can remember chundering on about how the cops could read your plate much more easily.   Funny, really, as he was one of the most law-abiding people I knew.   

 

Restorers who mislay original plates should be shot.

[Adrian_pt]

I always liked the look of absolutely knackered 50s stuff on reflectives - early 80s giffer style. 

[AMC Rebel]

I have pics of both my 1956 Chevy and my 68 AMC wearing reflective plates - but they had been replaced prior to my ownership in each case. Both cars were sold brand new in the UK so have been here their whole lives.

[Richard]

The first reflective plates were really shonky. I think they were on flat tin without any strengthening on the edges. They might even have been wavy when fitted, buckled by punching the holes for the numbers.

[Junkman]

BTW as I may have mentioned before - it's hilarious to us who were around at the time of the changeover - back then people couldn't ditch their black and silver pates quick enough and in the run up to the change (at least 3/4 years IIRC) pretty much every new car, despite being entitled to wear the old style plates, had the reflective ones fitted - now all these "original" cars from the late 60s and early 70s have Black and Silver plates they never had when new.

 

Although I don't doubt for a second that people enthusiastically changed to the reflective plates as soon as they became available,

there obviously were exceptions. I now have my second 1971 car still proudly wearing its black plates.

I might swap them for reflective ones on the current one, though, because I'm so progressive.

[Asimo]

^^^Yes, and the yellow ones would fade really quickly too, as did the red bits on some of the first reflective-background roadsigns.

[Matt]

I'd be inclined to agree, with one exception.

Yank imports just don't look right with UK yellow/white plates IMHO, black ones look far better on them I think.

 

Isn't there an exception that allows US imports to the UK to use US-style plates or is all that a bit underhand? I think it's a far better option than any UK/EU style anyway.

 

1978 Lincoln Continental by MattLikesCars, on Flickr

 

Vs:

 

1997 Dodge RAM by MattLikesCars, on Flickr

[danthecapriman]

Isn't there an exception that allows US imports to the UK to use US-style plates or is all that a bit underhand? I think it's a far better option than any UK/EU style anyway.

 

1978 Lincoln Continental by MattLikesCars, on Flickr

 

Vs:

 

1997 Dodge RAM by MattLikesCars, on Flickr

The US style plates like on the Lincoln are show plates only, they're illegal on the road although a lot of people do use them anyway. They are the wrong size, wrong font and wrong style for MOT/legal road use and I'd guess that's what the police would get you for if pulled over, same as the German style plates all the 'dubbers' like.

The only way you can legally use a foreign style plate is if the foreign vehicle is visiting this country, if it's permanently living here and registered here it has to have UK standard plates (age dependant ref style).

[Matt]

The US style plates like on the Lincoln are show plates only, they're illegal on the road although a lot of people do use them anyway. They are the wrong size, wrong font and wrong style for MOT/legal road use and I'd guess that's what the police would get you for if pulled over, same as the German style plates all the 'dubbers' like.

The only way you can legally use a foreign style plate is if the foreign vehicle is visiting this country, if it's permanently living here and registered here it has to have UK standard plates (age dependant ref style).

 

I see. I wasn't sure if they were legal or not but I bet plenty of people use them on the road.

[JohnDeere]

Smaller 12"x6" reflective plates with a smaller font are allowed on U.S. vee-hickles. Very common on the USAF-owned cars around my part of the world. 

[danthecapriman]

Smaller 12"x6" reflective plates with a smaller font are allowed on U.S. vee-hickles. Very common on the USAF-owned cars around my part of the world.

 

I think there is an exception made for US vehicles plate size, as some US vehicles can't fit a standard UK size plate onto the licence plate holder area as US plates are smaller than ours. Obviously moving the plate location to allow a bigger plate either can't be done or would require moving the rear plate lights etc. it tends to be on cars where the plate fixes onto the body somewhere, like between rear lights on a tailgate etc. on mine they are on the bumpers with little metal clips to hold the plate so it can take the bigger UK size plates.

[dugong]

 

My Amazon came with a hand painted rear numberplate cut from a scrap of tin.

 

I posted it back to the original owner's daughter; as a girl she painted it for her late father.

 

 

The other plate (as it appeared on an album cover) was original AFAIK; I have it somewhere. I know all the nasal pedants will tell me 'a 1966 car would have had reflectives for most of its life' but I couldn't care less. I had numberplates 4 U make me up a set of new plates with old Hills lettering from the 'Sixties

[Squire_Dawson]

Unless it has changed, no vehicle built after 1st January 1973 is permitted to wear black and white or silver and white 'old style' registration plates. The reflective plates were a step forward for safety and made them more easily readable during darkness.

 

It's possible the 'restorer' retained the number plate as a trophy/souvenir.

[Eddie Honda]

Unless it has changed

It definitely has changed. See OP.

[Squire_Dawson]

How bizarre!

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533255/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf

[Matt]

Smaller 12"x6" reflective plates with a smaller font are allowed on U.S. vee-hickles. Very common on the USAF-owned cars around my part of the world. 

 

Like this?

 

164 UXK; Old Jimmy by MattLikesCars, on Flickr

[seth]

Restorers who mislay original plates should be shot.

 

I've no idea how it disappeared and, as said restorer, have shot myself repeatedly ever since.

 

I'll probably use the remaining original one (currently screwed to the shed wall with other souveniers) as a towing number plate once the second restoration is done.

[oldford]

It has changed, though to qualify the car has to registered as Historic, however the MOT test hasn't been updated to reflect this change.

 

I've got a bit of a predicament with the plates on my car, do I use a style of plate that matches the registration date of the car or do I continue to use the current plates which are correct for when the number was issued, which was 2014?