Jump to content

320Touring's Toledo FIN


320touring

Recommended Posts

Eliminate the distributor and plug leads by getting new ones and slamming the on - this was the cause of my B3 Passat's problems because the insulation had broken down just enough to interfere with the speed signal to tge ecu.

"But it's overfueling!" I hear you cry - indeed, with a red label ecu it wouldn't run at all, with a green label ecu (which I suspect this has) it's got better 'in-fill' characteristics and will run but like a bag of shite.

Have you checked for any fault codes? It's the old method of earthing a wire on these ones, and counting the flashes from the engine check light.  Googly is your friend to tell you how to do it, and videoing it allows you to view it again and again whilst checking what the flashes mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, M'coli said:

Eliminate the distributor and plug leads by getting new ones and slamming the on - this was the cause of my B3 Passat's problems because the insulation had broken down just enough to interfere with the speed signal to tge ecu.

"But it's overfueling!" I hear you cry - indeed, with a red label ecu it wouldn't run at all, with a green label ecu (which I suspect this has) it's got better 'in-fill' characteristics and will run but like a bag of shite.

Have you checked for any fault codes? It's the old method of earthing a wire on these ones, and counting the flashes from the engine check light.  Googly is your friend to tell you how to do it, and videoing it allows you to view it again and again whilst checking what the flashes mean.

The plug wires are new (like less than 2 years old - I bought them after we got the golf)

Engine check light? It doesn't have one I know of.

 

Also the ECU has a red label ( picture one page back)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it doesn't appear to have an engine check light, it's either because it doesn't have one or because it's gubbed! I'd say it's the latter - look online for user manuals.

It looks like it's the same set-up (including the red ecu) as my old B3 Passat, except it's 1595cc as opposed to 1781cc. I might have to disturb some - ok, a metric fucking shit-tonne - of spiders and try to locate my Haynes manual on pre-OBD2 engine management systems...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There’s a relay on these old single point injection VW’s that will leave it running like a bag of spanners / refusing to run at all when it throws its hand in.

It was a common issue back in the day on the Mk3 / Mk4 Golf convertible which had this motor too.

A friend who has worked on a VW parts desk since the mid 90’s says they used to sell loads of them back in the day.

Do you want me to make enquiries?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, MJK 24 said:

There’s a relay on these old single point injection VW’s that will leave it running like a bag of spanners / refusing to run at all when it throws its hand in.

It was a common issue back in the day on the Mk3 / Mk4 Golf convertible which had this motor too.

A friend who has worked on a VW parts desk since the mid 90’s says they used to sell loads of them back in the day.

Do you want me to make enquiries?

Yes please, no harm in finding out, cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 320touring changed the title to 320Touring's 1993 SEAT Toledo- NEW PANTS (and timing belt) PLEASE 27/02/2021
54 minutes ago, 320touring said:

New belt time. I think there is a spare one in the Golf that @Skizzer gave me.

If so, will try to get it repaired asap

Fairly sure you’re right about there being at least one spare belt.  I bought two, mistaking the purchasing of parts/tools for actually fixing cars, as is my wont. I believe Alex Lewis in Llandewi fitted one to the Golf so there must be a spare.

Nearly there chief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 320touring changed the title to 320Touring's 1993 SEAT Toledo- Having the time(ingbelt) of our lives 01/03/2021

Having discovered that the timing belt on the Toledo was thinner than Coldplay's writing talent, I undertook to resolve the issue.

In the back of my mind, I had seen a timing belt kit somewhere.. but where?

IMG_20210228_121848679.thumb.jpg.169813cdcaa618cefbd20c757f40312e.jpg

Ah yes, in the back of the Golf. Many thanks @Skizzer!

 

Back at base, it was time to tear into the job.

First things first, get the water pump and PS belt off. No issues once I sussed out the tensioner.

the alternator belt came off ok too - although it didn't look the healthiest..

IMG_20210228_133524304.thumb.jpg.7d0e42002c70084397833ef9519e8727.jpgIMG_20210228_133537465.thumb.jpg.8ecc3e8a311e1d917d4b5ee1c47bd2a5.jpg

 

Next up, rocker cover and top belt cover off, plus spark plugs out for ease of turning.

IMG_20210228_134128194.thumb.jpg.d858baca7d997475b224ec58b5094fdf.jpg

 

There is a dot on the back of the cam pulley, which should be level with the top of the cyl head when at TDC on#1.

This corresponds with the O_T mark on the other face of the pulley. 

With the crank at its mark - located via a mark on the flywheel, I took a looks at the cam..

IMG-20210228-WA0016.thumb.jpeg.b224ed166c88c000a2291212b8d5b7a7.jpeg

A whole tooth out!

 

Right, let's get on with it..

Old tensioner off, and new one ready to go on.

IMG_20210228_144944630.thumb.jpg.b9467d2081a50812b50c9dab50925b37.jpg

 

To time the engine up, the cam goes to the O_T mark, the cam to it's mark, and the dizzy shaft pulley should be lined up with a notch In the bottom pulley.

That meant fitting it back on here. Easy enough to do with 2 bots just to hold it.

IMG_20210228_140123555.thumb.jpg.2bc3e52de29d7dd83839f81732cdc592.jpg

The cam pulley was moved forward a tooth and the belt and tensioner applied.

 

It's at this point I learned 2 lessons:

1. If you take reference pictures - USE THEM

2. The Dizzy pulley is a nightmare to keep lined up when fitting the belt.

When I fitted the tensioner, I put it the wrong way, so the lower belt cover wouldn't fit.

We got that sorted after looking at the reference picture.

 

Unbeknownst to us, the Dizzy pulley moved slightly, knocking the ignition timing out, so when we fired it up, it was a bit grumpy.

 

At this point, tiredness and failing light called a halt to proceedings.

 

Back up the next day, and I reset all the timing (as far as possible as my strobe light is nowhere to be found).

 

The result?

IMG_20210301_140155362.thumb.jpg.a08d67a99caa78bfcb100ebacbab7a85.jpg

 

It lives!

Have had it out for a couple of runs - it drives better than it ever has in my ownership - revs cleanly throughout the range and pulls well.

 

However, 

 

The bogging still persists at idle and full throttle 😤

I am now thinking ignition system ? 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/25/2021 at 9:09 PM, 320touring said:

The plug wires are new (like less than 2 years old - I bought them after we got the golf)

Engine check light? It doesn't have one I know of.

 

Also the ECU has a red label ( picture one page back)

 

Ok, it looks like you were right!  I'd expect it to be between the battery light and the fuel light (that's where the glow plug light goes on diesels).

20160824_204047.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, there has to be another way of reading the fault codes: this isn't an advanced system, thus it has to be relatively simple, but Seat technicians had to find a way, under warranty, of finding out what had fucked up that didn't require replacement/substitution of every sensor just to find the one in question... 

 

Fluffiness at idle and WOT? Have you checked what values/voltages the TPS is saying at these positions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 320touring changed the title to 320Touring's 1993 SEAT Toledo- trying not to break it..02/05/2021

Nothing much has been happening with this of late ..

It's managed a heady 28.8mpg on the last tank, but is still running rich.

As it's the only functional car at the moment I have been reticent to do much to it, lest I be blessed with an FTP.

It's done Unit duty a few times since we have been allowed out to play1805227223_IMG_20210411_1036037742.thumb.jpg.e6280f6234eda2a2ebf8df246fc06160.jpg

Here it it at a VAG only breakfast..

 

It was also out to play with a 205 owned by a mystery* shiter..

IMG_20210430_135622631.thumb.jpg.f237ecc12f3320aa38eb048347e13f73.jpg

Said 205 was LOVELY!

 

today it was treated to a hoover out, the door shuts cleaning a cursory glance at fluid levels, and the replacement of the spark plugs by some that were found during a unit clear up

IMG_20210502_165753904.thumb.jpg.4eb4d51c88a3783ba3057c73d7fc2337.jpg

We're about 300 miles into this tank, and still have 1/4 of a tank left ..

It's still going alright 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 320touring changed the title to 320Touring's 1993 SEAT Toledo- Akshul repairs...15/05/2021

I decided to be bold today...

 

And actually try to make this a bit nicer to drive.

2 main issues:

1. That droning noise

2. Hunnerts of exhaust rattles.

 

First up, the noise.

 

The cunning plan was to strip down the rear hubs and check the wheelbearing conditions. If anything looked bad, then replace it.

 

I was being pragmatic, and minimising the likelihood of ending up in a situation where the car was made immobile whilst I was 40miles from home.

Starting with the left rear:

Marvelling at how that seed got there..

IMG_20210515_115604530.thumb.jpg.c20eb6c462940fe78575f17fcc2d8f88.jpg

A check of the overall arch condition - the shell is solid. Damper looks tired and the brake line could do with replacement.

IMG_20210515_115610595.thumb.jpg.d29e38cd4f5bd55d337ae3a8a87d1d92.jpg

Split pin removed and the 24mm nut ready for removal

IMG_20210515_115945650.thumb.jpg.6b133e0bef5815bc9f3a33d8b69bce32.jpg

On these, the nut should be just past finger tight - any more and the bearing will wear prematurely.

IMG_20210515_121245868.thumb.jpg.2c8537cca5565ad1d30699c68fce2660.jpg

Drum removed. The shoes looked ok, and the wheel cylinder is nice and dry. It got a hosing down and clean with brake cleaner.

The bearings were checked for roughness, and found to be ok. I cleaned them and repacked them with fresh grease.

All back together and with the wheel on, it span silently bar a light drag of the brake shoe.

 

Happy, I moved to the other side:

Again, arch is fine, the damper looks tired, and a new brake line could be a plan 

IMG_20210515_123317887.thumb.jpg.7e9a7eb3ab0c82144c7a22c1a179ec20.jpg

First impressions suggested that this side was the same..

IMG_20210515_123439939.thumb.jpg.7dfec0dcfb5df1acd9f55abe47c96a10.jpg

However..

There was a brake shoe that had popped it's retainer

IMG_20210515_124846439.thumb.jpg.1906b34b60df0a32bb3666eee54b30cf.jpgIMG_20210515_124848958_HDR.thumb.jpg.05a3a46674321840eae40c62927e3e99.jpg

luckily it went back together ok

IMG_20210515_125204173.thumb.jpg.29bf42c4227746aa2d2ff417446b4a57.jpg

The bearings were checked, and the outer one on this side was very tired.

Time for a new one. 

IMG_20210515_125602541.thumb.jpg.e70517e6793fc41bf1780e4e2f759c70.jpg

All back together and it was silent.. hopeful, I turned to the exhaust.

 

First up, there was something hanging down at the rear:

IMG_20210515_114046127.thumb.jpg.0112cafd283fc8ff9a395c5e2c399e78.jpg

That'll be the heat shield for protecting the fuel tank then..

IMG_20210515_114158800.thumb.jpg.214dca1885224f62c1b46cc34a2f9fcd.jpgIMG_20210515_114217806.thumb.jpg.47e7d0137a753317c31d16c8a631b266.jpg

the retaining clips had failed. I engineered* some using the ideal cable ties for the job, and had it sorted quickly.

The correct clips are cheap, so I have ordered some, and will fix it properly when they arrive.

They look like this

Screenshot_20210515-213731-074.thumb.png.fb868840c41c89187fb7206a45f0eabc.png

Once finished, the back looked ok

IMG_20210515_115148994.thumb.jpg.8d82792c7b9df57696a0d0840a9817de.jpg

The only thing left to do was to adjust where the centre box sits so it didn't hit anything.

 

The end result was a much quieter drive home.

 

To thank me, the fuel gauge has now gone intermittent.

Bloody thing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bit late in the day, @320touring but I discovered this gem on Google the other day, before I’d even read this forum! From the Citröen Club of Slovenia I think, bless them! (Hope it works, I haven’t actually checked if it has your model but it may well have the same system listed) 
 

https://www.citroen-klub.si/CitDocs/XM/Haynes_Automotive_Diagnostic_Fault_Codes.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 320touring changed the title to 320Touring's 1993 SEAT Toledo- Tyred and Emotional...20/05/2021

What happens to this car has always been ruled by my heart, rather than my head..

Despite an initial £51 purchase price, it's had

Full new clutch kit and new engine gaskets/seals 

A full cat back Exhaust

New timing belt

and a load of other sundry parts..

 

Today, this sound fiscal approach was continued by the addition of £200 worth of tyres to the £51 car.

I had uhhmed and Ahhed about my options, spending time pouring over sites on line to identify the best option in the frankly tiny 175/70/13 size required.

Several options were considered, and I settled on the Falkein Sincera - it had really good reviews everywhere, and it had A rated Wet grip.

I was all set to press buy on black circles, but called up the local tyre place on the offchance, as they were listed as a fitting partner.

£240 on Black circles became £200 going direct - most pleasing!

They called to say that the tyres were in, and when did I want to come? It was 3.45pm, and I figured they'd be wanting to get loused..

Nope - "can dae them fur ye the day"

Smashing

I rocked up, and to his credit, the first words out the boys mouth were

"Where do you want me to jack it". This is why I use them.

 

Locations agreed, and it was time to get it in the air

IMG_20210520_155524040_HDR.thumb.jpg.3628e40f752149b45cba4dbc20602921.jpg

Comments included

"Fuck me, these are light" and

"Aww, look at the little drum"

The tone changed when the wheels went on the machine:

IMG_20210520_160432953.thumb.jpg.df1b4a2145fed0207e2c94d5daca197c.jpg

"FUCK ME,  that wheels better than almost everything we get in here - look at it"

IMG_20210520_160715659.thumb.jpg.9fd2eaaaeb052a42a0f9d688d8a0ce57.jpg

Happily, this was the story for all 4. very little weight was needed at all to balance them, and they were stuck back on with a torque wrench check.

IMG_20210520_163601480_HDR.thumb.jpg.ff2e77d090b793c525d49909aa63c9af.jpg

Look at the tread! The blocks are soft enough you can push them with your finger.

One of the old tyres was a 1998 date code😳

The boy said to me "d'ye want Tae keep a sticker?" So it is now mounted on the socket set.

IMG_20210520_162041545_HDR.thumb.jpg.b408092b4dfc9bc906400fadcac5df3a.jpg

 

For the puggit lickers amongst us (of which there are many), have a bonus 306 cab picture

IMG_20210520_155533513_HDR.thumb.jpg.06489360cc138e6358d460b848679ef2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great to see this getting some more love.

It may only have cost £51 but it’s priceless because it’s just about the sole survivor of its kind — just look at the Malaga and Ronda for the alternative outcome.

It’s the Seat equivalent of the little seedling in Wall-E.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...