JohnDeere Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 From today's FT, rather than saving £10m a year, the switch to paperless tax discs has resulted in a £400m drop in revenue (and that's, of course, in spite of the double-charging for a month each time a vehicle is transferred). Of course the new VED system (along with the need for insurance and MoT) is very easy to dodge by simply not registering the car to the correct name and address... ~~~ The decision to scrap paper tax discs from British cars cost the government more than £400m in its first year of the experiment in moving bureaucracy online. Vehicle tax revenue figures obtained by the Financial Times with a freedom of information request show tax revenues fell following the abolition of the 93Â-year-Âold paper tax disc system in October 2014. The overhaul, which cost £1m, was intended to save £10m in administrative costs. In the 12 months that followed the move, from October 2014 to September 2015, the DVLA collected £5.71bn in vehicle excise duty, some £412m lower than in the previous 12 months. However, the head of the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, responsible for collecting car duty, says it was “completely wrong†to suggest that there had been a £412m loss in revenue, arguing much of the shortfall is due to new phased payment plans implemented over a year ago. “It is not correct to compare the 2015/16 revenue with the previous year,†said Oliver Morley, the DVLA’s chief executive. “ This is because from 1 November 2014, customers could choose to spread their payments over 12 months with direct debit. Previously all vehicle tax would have been paid up front, which is why there is a difference in the monthly cash receipts yearÂ-on-Âyear.†Still, the DVLA’s finance team said there was no certainty the tax would be recouped once the phased payments are added up. The DVLA was warned at the time of the abolition of paper discs that the change would cause confusion and lead to greater evasion. The paper discs served as a reminder for motorists to renew their vehicles, and gave a clear and visible sign of those avoiding the charge. The National Audit Office has warned that there is a “clear concern†over the new system because of rising levels of nonÂpayment. “The effectiveness of the steps the agency takes in response to the increased tax gap will be critical to future outcomes,†it said in its annual report calling on the DVLA to be “ambitious†in clawing back lost tax through fines and debt collectors. It added that a “measurable increase†in tax evasion “coincided†with the first full year after the tax disc was scrapped. Tax revenues appeared to stabilise after the first year, with £2.91bn of duty collected between October 2015 and March 2016, compared with £2.93bn in the same period from 2013Â-2014, before the abolition of the disc. The Department for Transport previously estimated that £80m of vehicle tax revenue would be lost in 2015 to evasion — a significant increase on the £30m it had forecast for 2013. CreepingJesus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Longbridge Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 When I pay through my arse for the pleasure of traversing her majesty's pot hole-ridden highways, the very least I hope for in return is a little piece of coloured paper. I felt wonderment and awe upon finding out what the new colour would be each year. I guess it would now cost a bloody fortune to bring it back. Talk about progress... Richard, Ghosty, mercrocker and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Honda Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 That's some spin on that story. Should read:"DVLA saves a shitload on printing, postage and paper discs, and motorists get to pay-as-the-go instead of lending the government a shit load of money up front." A one-off drop of £412m is mostly accounted for in motorists not paying up front, a bit of it probably due to slightly duff forecasting (always a guessing game) of evasion and anyway after the first year, revenues have stablised. But then every paper knows nobody reads past the headline... Nicola H, They_all_do_that_sir, Jim Bell and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I pay £265 a year, isn't that enough? Why should I be subsidising people in 60 plate Golf Diesels? The non payment problem will end up being done like your TV licence. If you pay by DDR you have to pay £24 a month for 6 months so you are effectively 6 months ahead should you start to refuse paying it. mercrocker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I hope it costs them even more, serves them right. Even RFL refunds can be a massive cock-up, I know they've paid out twice for the same car a couple of times or more as they've refunded the wrong person initially. I was talking to a trader I know who loves it though, he uses direct debit to tax them (to get 'proof' if he gets stopped) then just cancels it as soon as the vehicle is sold, usually before the first payment has gone out. He says he's never had to pay back payments and once he cancels with his bank the DVLA don't get a penny. I've honestly not tried it so have taken his word for it. theshadow, purplebargeken and Rusty_Rocket 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I know it's an old and tired arguement, but...............scrap road tax and increase fuel duty................ catsinthewelder, purplebargeken, martc and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewaster Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I know it's an old and tired arguement, but...............scrap road tax and increase fuel duty................Do you trust any administration to do this in a fair and even handed manner? Or would they let us off £160 rfl and charge the "average" motorist £350 with a "If you don't like it then drive less miles"attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1703 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 How much revenue is lost to these cars that allegedly don't pollute https://www.carwow.co.uk/tax-exempt-cars mercrocker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayne Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I know it's an old and tired arguement, but...............scrap road tax and increase fuel duty................ I'm sure that's fine for you, the man who buys things only made within walking distance of his house. Like the rest of us, I'd end up poorer when the price of EVERYTHING goes up. Lacquer Peel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Furious Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I know it's an old and tired arguement, but...............scrap road tax and increase fuel duty................They had this conversation on the other forum a couple of weeks back and someone worked it out using maths and science. It wasn't the 'couple of pence per litre' increase that most people might expect, it was a fairly substantial amount. I for one am happy to stick with my £275 a year or whatever it is now, pot holes n all NorfolkNWeigh and mercrocker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercrocker Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 And for my selfish part, I am quite happy* paying present levels of fuel duty on the two tax-exempt cars that I own. They will fuck you one way or another. All I can, and do, take some small amount of pleasure in is that some highly-salaried knob cheese in the Treasury is getting his arse kicked for fucking up. It still doesn't seem too much to ask to get a bastard receipt, though, does it..... Richard and Dick Longbridge 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_dyane Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42009111 saaby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beko1987 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I seem to remember this coming up many times in the thread we had when this was introduced! Chris2cv and Craig the Princess 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinmasters Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 They had this conversation on the other forum a couple of weeks back and someone worked it out using maths and science. It wasn't the 'couple of pence per litre' increase that most people might expect, it was a fairly substantial amount. I for one am happy to stick with my £275 a year or whatever it is now, pot holes n all Did they factor in putting long-distance freight back where it should be, on the railways? forddeliveryboy and Fabergé Greggs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabergé Greggs Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Oh yeah! Remember tax discs! Do those figures properly take into account the money saved by less administration? I’m well into progress and besides, my windscreen looks right bonny without a disc. Do we need visual reminders for insurance? Rent? Mortgage? Anyone in need of a visual reminder could write it on a piece of paper and stick it to the windscreen themselves. Or howabout to the forehead just in case? hennabm, Twiggy, alf892 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beko1987 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 It is a poor excuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainagain Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I wish they'd just stick a bit on fuel and abolish it. It would make having a second 'fun' i.e. Large engined car more affordable. Burning a litre of fuel generates the same amount of co2 regardless if it's burnt in a Prius or a mustang. A Prius doing 10,000 miles a year generates more pollution than a weekend use only mustang, yet you pay more tax for the mustang. forddeliveryboy, HMC and Lacquer Peel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HH-R Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I'm surprised, really, I mean how many people actually got stopped by the Police and fined for having no/out of date tax in the austerity years? I bet very few. Vehicles registered to a false name and address would have been under the old system anyway. Surely it's harder to avoid the ANPRs, unless you live in the middle of nowhere. Lacquer Peel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosty Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I wish they'd just stick a bit on fuel and abolish it. No, no, and more no. colnerov, Junkman and NorfolkNWeigh 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I wish they'd just stick a bit on fuel Yeah, let's hike the highest fucking tax in the whole wide World. I'm seriously unsure who you are kidding. The solution is to scrap the VED and LOWER the bloody fuel duty! I'm sick and tired of paying the highest taxes on the Planet for some shitty Victorian infrastructure. They_all_do_that_sir and forddeliveryboy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorniteIdentity Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The cynical part of me thinks that this was all part of the plan. Watch it go tits up so they can reinvent the whole thing.The realistic part of me thinks that no gubbermint wants a loss of revenue on THIS scale. I do resent taxing 5 cars when I can only drive one of them at a time, and the others are parked on private property. But if it was to be added to fuel, I can see it being £150 a tank or whatever. Sometimes, it's better the devil you know. Chris2cv, alf892 and NorfolkNWeigh 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy18s Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The cynical part of me thinks that this was all part of the plan. Watch it go tits up so they can reinvent the whole thing.The realistic part of me thinks that no gubbermint wants a loss of revenue on THIS scale.Give it a few years and they'll decide to only "fair" way is to bring in countrywide toll roads,and stick a tracker in every car come mot time...... alf892 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The real problem is with the DDR system, people just cancel the DDR when they are skint. It ought to be a situation where it cannot be cancelled at the bank, it has to be cancelled through the DVLA. Then it’s instantly notified as untaxed, so if it goes through an ANPR an hour later it’s a fine. This with clamping the car isn’t much of a deterrent either, anyone with any sense just cuts the lock off. The fines then ought to be deducted at source if you are refusing to pay, either out of your wages or benefits. Give people the option of paying a fine within 30 days if not it’ll come out of your wages. None of all this pound a week bollocks or passing it on to some debt collection agency. I’d have them sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacquer Peel Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The real problem is with the DDR system, people just cancel the DDR when they are skint. It ought to be a situation where it cannot be cancelled at the bank, it has to be cancelled through the DVLA. Then it’s instantly notified as untaxed, so if it goes through an ANPR an hour later it’s a fine. This with clamping the car isn’t much of a deterrent either, anyone with any sense just cuts the lock off. The fines then ought to be deducted at source if you are refusing to pay, either out of your wages or benefits. Give people the option of paying a fine within 30 days if not it’ll come out of your wages. None of all this pound a week bollocks or passing it on to some debt collection agency. I’d have them sorted!Get lost you ghoul. alf892 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovamota Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Thing is, the only way the DVLA can keep track of who owns what car is by making every owner register it in his/her name to them and the best way to do that is to have a compulsory charging system. Surely, If tax was added to fuel duty there would be no need to get the DVLA involved, unless conscientious owners wanted to tell them they actually owned the car they're driving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Get lost you ghoul.Citizen Lacquer Peels here again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wack Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I know it's an old and tired arguement, but...............scrap road tax and increase fuel duty................ If you want to pay more in the shops for everything as all the haulage companies will just add it on the bill as will everybody driving a van Once electric cars start to take off we'll all have a black box in our cars and be charged by the mile, the days of charging a car up for £3 and getting 200 miles for free will be over once the tax revenue from fuel starts to fall Chris2cv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beko1987 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Surely if tax is added to fuel, apart from the veg nommers more tax will come in Therefore subsidise/reduce tax rates for hauliers? Either by a cash back system, or they buy their fuel for the depot by some special means and only full up there? Should all balance* out and food prices dont* rise? Id not mind tax on fuel too much, I don't always drive during the weekend as I'm a lazy bastard so I'm paying tax for 2 days of not driving... Whereas I'd pay it for the 5 days I go to work and back, and not the 2 days when I stayed at home in my pants. mat_the_cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramz7 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I don't think adding more elements to a system that's meant to be straight forward (and is apparently losing money) will help anyone. beko1987 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 It just demonstates the utter fucking ineptness of our politicians - they are so useless they cannot do anything else. Vince70, Chris2cv and Lacquer Peel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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