Project Domes shonky autos - Manta progress!

[SiC]

I thought these had inboard brakes?

[Soundwave]

4 minutes ago, SiC said:

I thought these had inboard brakes?

I think that was the XJ-S, and only at the back?

[dome]

Aye, series 3 and early XJS had them inboard, these have them in the right place.

[juular]

58 minutes ago, dome said:

Next up is ordering parts and a brake pipe flaring tool. Any recommendations for a tool?

 

I think the general consensus is that the cheap ones a la Toolstation, eBay etc are absolutely useless and best avoided as they mark the lines very badly and are hard to get a good double flare from. 

Been researching these myself to repair my oil cooler lines, so keen to see if there's a reasonably priced set out there that isn't total mince.

Cracking Jag btw, the colour is lovely. Great work getting it to live on.

I think someone was looking out for you taking those lines off, I would've been clenching strongly expecting the worst!

[blackboilersuit]

This type of flaring tool is awesome. Available from ebay in either DIN or SAE flavour. 

Not sure what you'll need for the Jag, probably DIN but don't quote me on it. Generally speaking everything uses M10 fine unions with a DIN flare with the exception of old classics and yank stuff that use SAE flares with imperial unions. All brake line is the same as give or take a few thou 3/16" is 4.75mm. @Broadsword being a Jag guru might be able to answer that better than I can.

The BIG advantage of the above type of tool is that it can flare steel pipes and is compact enough to do pipes in situ on the car. That means splicing in a repair section when the line is solid bar one small section of rot is easily done. This means you can avoid replacing pipes that are a nightmare to get to. Witness my old CRV, the last 2" all of the lines going to the compensator on the bottom chassis rail were rotted out but the rest of the lines were solid with no corrosion. Several of those ran up between the steering rack and the bulkhead and would have been impossible to replace in their original locations. The resulting repair did look a bit like an art installation but being able to splice a line using a female-female joiner saved that car from being recycled prematurely.

[dome]

16 minutes ago, blackboilersuit said:

This type of flaring tool is awesome. Available from ebay in either DIN or SAE flavour. 

Not sure what you'll need for the Jag, probably DIN but don't quote me on it. Generally speaking everything uses M10 fine unions with a DIN flare with the exception of old classics and yank stuff that use SAE flares with imperial unions. All brake line is the same as give or take a few thou 3/16" is 4.75mm. @Broadsword being a Jag guru might be able to answer that better than I can.

The BIG advantage of the above type of tool is that it can flare steel pipes and is compact enough to do pipes in situ on the car. That means splicing in a repair section when the line is solid bar one small section of rot is easily done. This means you can avoid replacing pipes that are a nightmare to get to. Witness my old CRV, the last 2" all of the lines going to the compensator on the bottom chassis rail were rotted out but the rest of the lines were solid with no corrosion. Several of those ran up between the steering rack and the bulkhead and would have been impossible to replace in their original locations. The resulting repair did look a bit like an art installation but being able to splice a line using a female-female joiner saved that car from being recycled prematurely.

Great, thanks! Was looking at those but do they only do one type of flare? I think I'll need the female version of that flare for some of the pipes. I'll check the lines I've took off though, possibly not.

[blackboilersuit]

Yes they only do one type of flare per tool. You get a tool that does DIN flares and another different tool that does SAE flares.

I did see you have some female nuts so I assume they are something like an AN fitting. I'm not sure what the official tool is for them but when I had them on my old MK1 Disco I had an el-cheapo flaring tool like this one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10PC-METRIC-COPPER-PIPE-BRAKE-FLARING-TOOL-KIT-SET-MECHANIC-PLUMBING/271140163465?epid=9018939688&hash=item3f21368f89:g:6NQAAOSwW15fSPfO

I just used the pointy end of the press without one of the dies in it to flare out the end of the pipe. I'm sure it's not the official method but it did seem to work ok and no nuns or kittens came to any harm!

I did find this list online that explains some of the various types of flares.

[blackboilersuit]

5 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

It will do both types.  You screw the punch in one way to produce a male flare, then reverse it and go in again to produce a female flare.

Wrong I'm afraid.

The SAE flaring tool uses one end to produce a bubble flare and then you use the second end to turn the bubble flare into a double flare if that's what you want.

The DIN tool produces DIN flares only. A DIN flare and an SAE bubble flare are almost identical to look at so that's where the confusion often comes in.

[Mr Pastry]

1 minute ago, blackboilersuit said:

Wrong I'm afraid.

We are talking cross purposes here I think,   I was not suggesting that the same tool would produce SAE and DIN flares.  I'll delete my post.

[blackboilersuit]

3 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

We are talking cross purposes here I think,   I was not suggesting that the same tool would produce SAE and DIN flares.  I'll delete my post.

Apologies @Mr PastryI picked you up wrongly, entirely my fault. 

You describing the double flare as a female has perhaps clarified it in my mind. If a car has a mix of male and female flares, particularly an old car of British origin then it would seem very likely that all the flares are SAE with the males being a bubble flare and the females being a double flare.

 

[dome]

Here's the flares I've got to replicate.

This tool looks like it'll do both.

Sound right to you @blackboilersuit?

[blackboilersuit]

That female flare is definitely an SAE double so the whole car will be SAE flares. That tool is the one you want. You're welcome to borrow mine if you want as my fleet is not in need of any lines at present. Drop me a PM if you do.

[dome]

4 hours ago, blackboilersuit said:

That female flare is definitely an SAE double so the whole car will be SAE flares. That tool is the one you want. You're welcome to borrow mine if you want as my fleet is not in need of any lines at present. Drop me a PM if you do.

It looks like the male flared is DIN so I'll need two tools! Fuxxake

[big_al_granvia]

this any use to you, https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cht229-pipe-flaring-cutting-kit-/

[dome]

32 minutes ago, big_al_granvia said:

this any use to you, https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cht229-pipe-flaring-cutting-kit-/

Aye, that'd do it but I was trying to avoid that style of kit. 

[jonathan_dyane]

Why? I’ve used one and they’re fine.

[Tickman]

I've one of them and as long as you take your time it is fine.

Just practice first.

[dome]

19 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Why? I’ve used one and they’re fine.

Because I'm a fanny and have spent longer reading about fecking brake tools than it would take to do the fecking job ?

[blackboilersuit]

2 hours ago, dome said:

It looks like the male flared is DIN so I'll need two tools! Fuxxake

A SAE bubble flare looks almost like a DIN once it's been used because the tip gets squashed down when the fitting is tightened. I'd doubt even Jag would mix SAE and DIN flares on the same car. 

[dome]

Ok, shopping time. I've ordered up the following, mostly from David Manners where available.

Brake pipe flaring tool. 
Discs and pads all round
Flexis all round
Caliper pistons and seal kits all round.
Distributor cap
Rotor arm
Leads
Air Filter
Gearbox filter and gasket
Fan belt
4 new tyres-225/60 15 as the original 225 65 15 are no longer available. I'm keeping it on the steels-trims FTW!

I have a new thermostat I'll fit. 

I'll pick up brake pipe locally
I'd like to fit a radiator cap for peace of mind but David Manners is out of stock at the minute.
I'll change the diff oil too.

Anything I'm missing out?
 

[dome]

18 hours ago, Tickman said:

I've one of them and as long as you take your time it is fine.

Just practice first.

You are correct on this. I borrowed one from you previously and it was fine.

I'm easily led by people on the internet, as most of this thread will attest to. "You should buy one of these Dome" 

[dome]

An order was placed with David Manners and pretty quickly my dining room table was full...

Tonight I decided to clean up the brakes before rebuilding the calipers. I've left the old seals, pistons and gubbins in for painting.

Before

After

I had silver high temp paint so did the calipers with that. Not sure I like them like that but no-one will see them behind the trims anyway.

I also dropped the transmission fluid and changed the filter. The sump was a bit tatty so I gave it a quick clean up with the wire wheel and a lick of black paint.

And back on and topped up. Note the lovely* fuel lines. They're going, needless to say

 

[busmansholiday]

12 minutes ago, dome said:

An order was placed with David Manners and pretty quickly my dining room table was full...

and your wallet was empty ?.

Seriously good job here, miss my XJ40, but there's times when you know it's destined to be a fridge.

[dome]

47 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

and your wallet was empty ?.

Seriously good job here, miss my XJ40, but there's times when you know it's destined to be a fridge.

Nah, prices were pretty decent to be fair. And getting everything from one place makes a difference. Hopefully this one won't be a fridge for a while ?

[dome]

It seems the Accord was jealous of the Jags shiny calipers. 

I stuck it in for an MOT this week. It was on a covid one til December but I didn't want to be rolling around under it in the middle of winter.

I stuck it in yesterday and... Fail. Rear caliper. The one I'd had problems with before but though was currd.  

A new one was under £50 from the local factors so that was a no brainer.

Dead easy to swap, the banjo bolt on the caliper came out no bother. Much better than the traditional hoses like the Jag has. 

Back in and bled up and she's good for another year. No advisories either!

I'm going to celebrate by fitting an aux in adapter to it so I can listen to my dab radio?

 

[dome]

Few updates on the Jag front.

Brake lines are all cut, flared and in place. Not finalized yet. Fronts are ready but the front to rear line runs alongside the fuel flow and return lines. I'll tidy it up when I run the fuel lines.

I've decided to go cupronickel with them, it'll match the brake lines I've fitred and means I can use the existing clamps. I had thought about running rubber the full length but decided against it. 

I'll need to join them to the existing hard lines with rubber hose. I've also had to order a new fuel filter with push on fittings instead of the screw on type it should have. @SRi05 that means there's a fuel filter here for you if you want it?

Onto the caliper rebuilds. This is tricky, having never done one before.  I managed to tear one of the rubber boots on a front one but here's one front with new piston, seals and rubber boot. 

Onto the rears. 

Piston pressed out

Cleaned up and new seal installed

Boot stretched over the piston.

And this is the tricky bit. You have to install get the lip of the seal into the caliper but you can't fit the piston afterwards. So I held the piston just inside the caliper and massaged the seal into the groove. Not easy.

And there we go

 

 

[The Moog]

How were the bores in the calipers?

[dome]

27 minutes ago, The Moog said:

How were the bores in the calipers?

I cleaned them up, they seemed fine but I didn't sand them or anything.  First time I've done this but the pistons don't actually touch the bores do they? 

[billy_bunter]

as long as its a super smooth finish all the way round the bore. Should be fine. If it is not smooth the imperfections (rust) picks up the seal. With the pressures involved it does not have to be much of an imperfection.  I used to feel them with a finger. Same for the pistons.

[dome]

Ah, ok. Here's the one I've still to do. The bore is smooth. All the rest were the same.