Project Domes shonky autos - Manta progress!

[dome]

Had a wee bit of time on this tonight. 

Turning the key brings the ignition lights on but turning it to start did nothing.

On Sunday I found a random toggle switch under the dash. When flicked the starter solenoid would click but wouldn't turn-obviously some kind of cunning* immobilizer.

Time to check the starter. 

Access isn't great on this, the engine is canted over to the driver's side and the starter and exhaust are close together with a big heat shield in the way.

Amazingly the 35 year old 8mm bolts on the heat shield came loose to reveal what looks like the original starter

I couldn't access the starter connections with it in place so had to remove the starter to get to them

The starter looks original, someone has been at the wires before. 

Starter off and tested-functioning ok.

This looks suboptimal though- the wiring to the solenoid.

I detached it up near the battery and pulled the wire out. 

Guess the rewiring starts here...

[dome]

Today I managed to make a bit of progress. First off, replace the corroded wire to the starter solenoid. 

New wire fed through the existing sheath no bother

Then connected up at the terminal.

Then I could see if it would crank.

It's turning over really slowly, even with a jump lead from the negative battery terminal to the starter. The plugs are still out when I filmed that😳

I did get to confirm that there's a spark at the plugs so that's something. I then fitted the plugs, found tdc and got the leads on in (hopefully) the right order.

There wasn't space to run a positive lead from the battery to the starter so I measured the resistance of the positive lead from the starter to the battery.

That tested good so I suspected the(probably original) starter.

I pulled it back out and pulled the cover off.

Aye, that'll be fucked. 

I don't think it's worth trying to resurrect that, a new one would make more sense.

Next up was to see if I could get a tune out of the fuel pumps.

I'd bought this little toy on the recommendation of @Tickman. 

With it I could send 12v wherever my heart desires. 

To the fuel pumps!

This is the in tank pump, it didn't respond to 12 volts. 

The main pump did though after a second or two so I let it run for a bit and checked the fuel filter(full of fuel) and the fuel distributor(also getting fuel) Good sign.

Sadly no chance of getting it to start with a starter motor that looks like it's been on the General Belgrano.

I decided to pull the dead in tank pump out, this also gave me the opportunity to drain 20l of fuel out of the tank. It didn't smell too bad but had to come out anyway.

Here's the in tank pump.

I tested it off the car with the probe but it's dead.

There seems to be some chat online about being able to do away with this pump and just run the car using the main pump. This sounds like a plan if possible, I'll look in to this a bit further.

Next up, get new starter and then see where the injection system is at.

The fuel pump relay clicks and it seems to prime now it's been prodded back into life  but the fusebox in general is a bit corroded, I may pull it out and try and clean things up to see if that helps with the rest of the electrics which are currently non functional. We need working pop up headlights!

[dome]

Bit more progress tonight. First off after a bit of googling I decided to do away with the in tank fuel pump. This appears to be a thing. As Porsche deleted it from later models and replaced it with a strainer the done thing is to replace it with that strainer. 

However, that costs £70. That's not how we do things around here. 

I had an old inline filter from my veg days and a Dremel. Purists, look away now.

That'll do!

It's fitted, I need to replace the rubber hose between this and the external pump and we'll see how that goes.

Next I decided to try and clean up the auxiliary fuse box as it looked a bit crusty. I wanted to try and clean it with a brush on my Dremel bit the standard Dremel brushes are shit so that stalled. 

I did find some leftover S4 relays to replace some tatty looking ones and a brand new fuel pump relay so I fitted that.

I've ordered a set of nylon Dremel brushes to clean up the fusebox properly and I'll get some new fuses too. Once the new starter arrives and I've cleaned up the fusebox I'll see if I can get any of the electrics to work.

I teased myself by manually popping up the headlights-you can do this with a wee knob under the bonnet.

Finally I had a look at the front brakes. These were stuck on so I wasn't expecting much. Amazingly the bleed nipples came loose as did the hose unions. 

Off with the calipers to reveal new pads but slightly worn discs. 

I had my little adapter left over from doing the Jag brakes-it fits the caliper perfectly and the other end goes onto my airline adaptor which means that I could pop the piston out no bother. 

 

 

 

The pistons aren't too bad but I'll probably spring for a rebuild kit including new pistons-it kinda makes sense to me if I'm in this far.

Derek from Vice Grip Garage wouldn't approve, I'm doing brakes before it even runs🙈

 

[inconsistant]

Replacing fuses & cleaning contacts is a good plan. A blown fuel pump fuse has caught out many owners with cars that turn over but are not firing. 

It’s also a good idea to clean the earth points: one near fusebox, one from alternator behind valance, one in boot near spare wheel well. May be others, can’t remember. 
Is the battery tray above the fuses solid to keep the weather off them?

stater motors should be fairly cheap and available. 

That heat-shield by the manifold is almost impossible to find in good condition,  most are full of rust holes.  Good ones tend to go for up to £100 , a lot for a bit of pressed steel so don’t wreck it! 

 

[dome]

2 hours ago, inconsistant said:

Replacing fuses & cleaning contacts is a good plan. A blown fuel pump fuse has caught out many owners with cars that turn over but are not firing. 

It’s also a good idea to clean the earth points: one near fusebox, one from alternator behind valance, one in boot near spare wheel well. May be others, can’t remember. 
Is the battery tray above the fuses solid to keep the weather off them?

stater motors should be fairly cheap and available. 

That heat-shield by the manifold is almost impossible to find in good condition,  most are full of rust holes.  Good ones tend to go for up to £100 , a lot for a bit of pressed steel so don’t wreck it! 

 

Thanks, good knowledge! Starter arrived today(it's the one on the right in case anyone is wondering)

The little brushes for the Dremel arrived too. All I need is the correct size hose to go between the tank and pump and some time and we can see what happens when it turns over with a bit of oomph. 

My heat shield is intact and in very good condition and the bolts even unscrewed no trouble. The more I look at this thing the more impressed I am for it being 38 years old. 

[stuboy]

nice motor dome...

just dont paint the wheels ornage like........... 'old out ya 'and.. you just bought a Porsche.

[seacow]

Loving this porker action top stuff

[dome]

Some more progress with this. First up, cleaning of the fusebox and replacement of the old corroded fuses with some new ones. 

It has these little earths mounted on the body that the earth cables attach to, I removed thee and cleaned them.

 

The fusebox didn't look too clever

The little nylon brushes for the dremel worked well, this was the first pass, another pass got them even better

And with a full complement of new fuses fitted

On Saturday I fitted my new starter, annoyingly some of the connections were different so i ended up having to change the terminals over on the wires I'd made up. I also fitted my "new" fuel strainer to the tank and stuck a new line in to the pump.

It turned over much better but still wouldn't start. Pulling a couple of plugs out revealed no smell of fuel so i pulled out the injectors.

Behold, varying degrees of fucked 

I stuck them in to soak in carb cleaner for a while and gave them a gentle brush with the dremel, they looked much better after that.

A blast through with the air line and they even seemed to give the correct sort of pattern.

So, back in and lets see if it'll start

No, although annoyingly it tried to catch on the GT85/carb cleaner right at the start there  Still no fuel getting into the cylinders either.

Yesterday with some top guidance from @juular i decided to pull the metering head off to check the plunger which controls fuel delivery. Slightly disconcerting as a lot of people seem to say DON'T TOUCH but it's all part of the learning experience.

Fuel lines disconnected and screws holding the metering head on undone

Gently pull it off and here it is.

And the bottom of it

I didn't go any further at this stage. Everything seemed reasonably clean but the plunger did seem to be stuck although it freed straight off so i cleaned everything up and stuck it back together.

I also pulled out the pressure regulator. It was a wee bit gummed up but not too bad.

I stuck it back together and tried the next test thanks to Juular. I bridged the relay on the fuel pump to get it running then raised the metering flap. This simulates lots of air in the intake and increases the fuel flow to the injectors accordingly-sure enough i could hear the distinctive howl that you get when this happens. 

Fucker still won't start though!

 First of all I'll pull the injectors back out and try that test again to see what happens, I think it's a pressure thing as fuel is definitely getting to the metering head, whether there's enough to open the injectors or not i'm not sure. Next up is pressure testing of the system to see if we're getting enough flow.

Oh and despite my efforts with the fusebox i still have a selection dead electrics, lights, wipers, interior fan and sunroof still don't work. I'll maybe have to remove the dash to check the wiring in there but will prod them all with my trusty power probe first to see if i can get any life. 

Stay tuned!

 

[spike60]

My 924 was a shit to  start if you switched it off while hot but no bother if switched off at lower temperatures. I bought some 'good condition' used injectors which were worse then pissed about running carb cleaner through them, blasting with air and checking spray patterns but all to no good effect. I sold it. When my 6 cylinder merc 300se with similar system started doing 4,   5,    6 cylinders on start up I got the Bosch part No and after a google search I bought a set of brand newies at £19 each, Problem solved. This was about 4 years back , not sure how easy they are to find now but they seem interchangeable across various brands and models. 

[dome]

17 hours ago, spike60 said:

My 924 was a shit to  start if you switched it off while hot but no bother if switched off at lower temperatures. I bought some 'good condition' used injectors which were worse then pissed about running carb cleaner through them, blasting with air and checking spray patterns but all to no good effect. I sold it. When my 6 cylinder merc 300se with similar system started doing 4,   5,    6 cylinders on start up I got the Bosch part No and after a google search I bought a set of brand newies at £19 each, Problem solved. This was about 4 years back , not sure how easy they are to find now but they seem interchangeable across various brands and models. 

I've found a set of new injectors for £114 which may happen. Interestingly the part number on my injectors (or at least 3 of them...) shows as Golf injectors. I'm not sure if they are correct for the car or not. 

Warm start problems on KJet are common, I'm not sure if it's an injector thing or not. I'll worry about my complete non starting first!

[Zelandeth]

If you haven't already it would be worth thoroughly purging all the lines between the fuel distributor and the injectors themselves.

The injectors on this system are based on poppet valves, so need to see a certain pressure to fire.  Air in the lines between the distributor and injector can cause issues, so sometimes you may need to bleed that line as though it was a diesel.

Testing flow is easy enough, remove injectors from the manifold, put each one into a glass, bridge the fuel pump relay so it keeps running, then lift the air metering plate.  You should get a continuous spray from them as long as the plate is lifted.

Biggest problem with K Jet is just things getting gummed up, especially after a long period of disuse.  It's really not a bad system once you get your head around how it functions and what the various bits do.

[dome]

Pulled my warmup regulator off at lunchtime. Definitely fuel getting to it too. It's been painted red at some point so is clearly fine*

There was some crap caught by the mesh filter, will pull it apart and check it out too. 

[dome]

I stripped down the warm up regulator last night -it looks pretty clean inside and tested within specs for resistance on the multimeter so I cleaned it and stuck it back together. This was how it looked

 

It's now bolted back on along with the cold start injector. Next step is to pull the injectors out and see if they are getting enough pressure to open. 

I would've done that last night but the Range Rover decided to give me an ABS fault on the way to work yesterday. Bother.

Purely by chance* i keep a code reader in it. 

OK, let's have a look then

Old sensor, looking crusty

With a quick blast of heat i got the bolt to come out intact.

The sensor wasn't for moving though so i broke off what I could. Shit picture but you get the idea.

And then carefully got the drill into it. I managed to not drill right through to the ABS ring as I pulled the tip of the sensor out intact. However,  rotating the shaft showed the ABS ring had parted company from the CV joint. bother.

It's one of those things, without taking the sensor out I wouldn't have been able to see the broken ABS ring unless i'd pulled the driveshaft. 

I've ordered a replacement ring as well as a sensor but I've got this big fucker of a bolt to undo to get the shaft out.

 

#prayforme

I don't have a socket to fit that currently so have left it there for now. 

 

 

[Saabnut]

5 hours ago, dome said:

I don't have a socket to fit that currently so have left it there for now. 

 

 

Do you know the size as I have a few big sockets

[dome]

14 minutes ago, Saabnut said:

Do you know the size as I have a few big sockets

Thanks for the offer-I believe it's a 36mm but a friend is stopping by later on with his one and a big assed impact gun to hopefully persuade it to come off...

[motorpunk]

Am loving this. My 968 was probably the best car I’ve ever had, I did a trackday in a 924s and even though it was a bit shagged it was massive fun. Great cars.

Ten randoms if you get bored of it.

😎

[GingerNuttz]

If you get stuck and can't get it off I've got a 1" set that'll move it.

[dome]

18 hours ago, motorpunk said:

Am loving this. My 968 was probably the best car I’ve ever had, I did a trackday in a 924s and even though it was a bit shagged it was massive fun. Great cars.

Ten randoms if you get bored of it.

😎

I've had a 944 S2 and 2 early square dash 944s and loved them all, although the later S2 was a much different car to the early ones. I've long had a hankering for the origin of the species and here I am. With a broken one.

18 hours ago, GingerNuttz said:

If you get stick and can't get it off I've got a 1" set that'll move it.

Cheers for the offer. We tried a 36mm 12 point socket but it was too big and a 32mm too small-I've got a set on the way that'll hopefully do the job-34, 35 and 36.

[captain_70s]

48 minutes ago, dome said:

. I've long had a hankering for the origin of the species and here I am. With a broken one.

But for the price of half a broken one. 👌

[dome]

Back to the Porsche. 

I felt like I hadn't achieved much beyond cleaning various parts of the injection system but failed to get it to start. 

Tonight I pulled the injectors out and made my own Lone Wolf 1000. 

Not quite up to Vice Grip Garage standards but plugging this in where the fuel pump relay goes meant I could power the fuel pump directly. I wondered if there wasn't enough pressure in the fuel system so wanted to control the pump manually to get as much pressure in the system as I could, also it would let me test the injectors.

First up I stuck another gallon of fuel in it.  

Next up, pull the injectors, power the pump and see what happens when I raise the metering flap.

Not the best pattern but all 4 are firing, that's got to be a good thing. 

I then spent ages trying to get it to start but to no avail. I'll not bore you with the videos. 

I got distracted when I found a new ignition module in the bag of bits that came with the car. I fitted that but no difference so swapped back to the original one. I had reasonable confidence in the ignition side of things as it would cough with gt85 down the inlet. 

I then pulled the newly cleaned cold start valve off to check it. Despite it clicking with 12v applied it wouldn't spray fuel. 

It was only as I was about to pack up for the night that I found, in the random bag of bits that came with the car, another cold start valve.

Would it be dead like the ignition module in the same bag appeared to be?

I connected it up in place of the original and powered it up. Not only did it click but it sprayed fuel!

It can't be that easy, can it?

What the what?

Let's try that again. We're back on the fuel pump relay here in place of the Lone Wolf 1000

Well bugger me!

It's got a misfire which seems to ease with a few revs and it's not overly happy about idling yet but I'm bloody happy with that. Oil pressure looks good and it's charging which is all a bonus. 

Still a long way to go but time for a glass of wine to celebrate 🙂

 

 

 

[Jim Bell]

It's.

Alive. 

[N Dentressangle]

I'd call that a WIN. Sounds good too.

Lone Wolf 1000 🤣 Derek would be proud

[Liggle]

Great progress, sounds like my old Scirocco which isn't too surprising!

[Dick Longbridge]

Bring the thunder!!!!

[cort16]

I wonder what Randy Travis is doing right now?

Great work! Is it some quirk of the mechanical injection that there's not enough pressure for them to pop off on start up so it needs the cold start one? 

[juular]

Epic work man. Wine well deserved.

49 minutes ago, cort16 said:

Great work! Is it some quirk of the mechanical injection that there's not enough pressure for them to pop off on start up so it needs the cold start one? 

The main injectors should fire right away, the cold start injector can actually be disabled / deleted in some climates as it doesn't make a huge amount of difference unless it's extremely cold. 

Needing the extra fuel from the CSI to start points to the mixture being a bit too lean. 

[dome]

51 minutes ago, cort16 said:

I wonder what Randy Travis is doing right now?

Great work! Is it some quirk of the mechanical injection that there's not enough pressure for them to pop off on start up so it needs the cold start one? 

I'm not sure what the actual problem was, I'm guessing a few different things adding up but the cold start injector was the final piece in the puzzle. I've been through the rest of the fuel system but not found a smoking gun. 

I found these on eBay, the part number cross references to what I need. Fitted but never ran apparently and half the price of new ones. 

 

I think while I wait for them to arrive I'll have a look at other stuff-wipers, sunroof and pop up headlights still don't work.

And finally, because you don't really need them, brakes...

[dome]

Looks like last nights shenanigans has blown some crap out of it after all these years! 

No signs of oil at least so that's something...

[dome]

I've been picking away at the Porsche. The list was quite daunting as as well as it not running initially nothing electrical worked. 

First up, my new injectors arrived.

 

Old ones here

And new ones

Fitted and it fired up ok but was still running pretty crap. Time to check for vacuum leaks.

Aye, that'll be a vacuum leak. It had some duct tape expertly* applied so I guessed all was not well.

New boot ordered up.

Wiper motor next, this was dead. 

This car is surprisingly easy to work on. 4 bolts and the motor was off.

I discovered it was only 4 bolts after taking a lot more off first but hey...

Stripped down an I freed the motor off, it now works but I couldn't get it far enough apart to lube the bearing at the gearbox end so it doesn't sound pretty. I may need to revisit it.

Lights next. Cleaning earths had got some life out of these but the fluid levels seemed a bit high.

Yep, not ideal. A spare good headlamp came with it so I'll fit that.

I also cleaned the earths behind the bumper. Someone had put filler over one, I suspect when the front end got painted badly.

However, they still didn't work and whilst faffing about with my wipers smoke started to appear under the dash-the headlight switch had melted. Baws.

I then pulled the motor for the headlights which pleasingly turned out to be the same as the wiper one so a strip and clean was easy. I also pulled the switch out which was now fucked-ill need to be careful putting this all back together when a new switch arrives to try and work out where the problem is.

Finally, front brake rebuild. A repair kit and new pistons had been ordered from Big Redd and I fitted this today. 

Yep, that's not pretty.

Better.

Done. 

Finally today I sprayed a load of gt85 down the handbrake cable and I have what appears to be a working handbrake. I'll have a proper look at the rear brakes at some point and the fluid will need a full flush-i pulled the reservoir off and it's soaking in brake cleaner. 

Some more done, plenty more to do!

 

[dome]

Time for an update. First up, Rangey problems. I know, right? Whoda thunk it?

A few weeks ago on the way to work I was treated to the ABS kicking in at weird times at low speeds. Before long I had the ABS and Traction control lights. 

At work i read the codes

 

OK then, new sensor time I guess. I ordered one up and set about removing the old one.

 

Thar she blows

Bolt came out easily, although I'm battle hardened to putting heat on pretty much any bolt i can before attempting to undo it. 

The sensor of course was stuck in there but with just the right amount of brute force i got it out

But wait, what do w have here? 

 

Only to find the ABS ring had broken and was rotating on the CV joint. Baws.

These are known to fail and new ABS rings are available, trouble is it involves removing the driveshaft to get it out. First problem was this.

Yep, that bolt had been on there a while. I also didn't have a socket to fit it. 

What followed was a bit of fucking about. My mate Craig had a big boy Milwaukee gun and said he'd pop by to try and undo it. Which he did but it turned out not to be a 32mm or 36mm 12 pointed nut. Arses. More delays followed while i bought a selection of impact sockets including a 34mm one. My small Milwaukee wouldn't look at it and neither would my breaker bar.

Craig popped in next time he was passing and his gun took it straight off. Safe to say I've bought a big boy Milwaukee M18 gun now.

Nut off

And the driveshaft out. I had to get brutal with this, it was stuck right in there. Big hammer time. 

When Craig had been over I undid the two strut bolts but hadn't wound them right out. Turned out one was seized in the hub. I tried to get the driveshaft out with it in place but no joy. 

I rigged this setup up and left it overnight after applying copious amounts of Plusgas. Nice bend on the breaker here. 

I left it overnight like than and guess what. Yep, next morning it was loose!

Bolt out

Driveshaft could then be extracted and the offending ABS ring removed.

Yep, that'll be the problem.

CV joint cleaned up and the new ABS ring fitted.

It's an interference fit so took some gentle persuasion to get it on.

I had a fierce hangover the day I was doing this, turns out beating fuck out of a hub to get the driveshaft back in will cure that.

It was a fucking nightmare to get it back in, harder than getting it out.. Eventually though we were there.

And behold, a (almost) fault free dash on an L322. The airbag light is intermittent, I don't count that as it stayed off for the MOT