New Waftoloon BROKEN

[406V6]

Sometimes autobox problems can be fixed fairly easily if you have enough nerve and the right skills. The best autobox fixing thread I've ever read is for a ZF 4HP20 on the 406 coupe forum here.  Don't read it if you are squeamish and get upset by the sight of lots of oil and guts (of a valve block)

[SiC]

There is much bollocks talked about auto trans fluid - you can often replace a fancy fluid with ATF Dexron II  - Dexron is not a long life lifetime fill. I once replaced the fancy Esso synthetic fluid in a 234'000 mile BMW shitter with Dexron II, did it three times to effect a full fluid change and it was fine.

Wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrongggg. Older boxes, yeah you probably will be fine. Newer boxes with 5-9 gears, TC lockup in most of those, adaptive shifting, etc. you will break them if you don't use the right spec. There are many examples of garages putting D3 into these AW55 boxes and killing them pretty quickly. Bad advice to give to others, as they can end up with totally dead boxes. You really do need oil that meets spec JWS 3309 (or Toyota T-IV).

 

The good news is that this isn't actually as special as it once was (because more modern cars around). Also the fluid meeting that spec can also meet many other specs too, so you get universal type fluids. Which is exactly what the Mannol is. Here is the label on the back of my bottles of the stuff:

 

It could be a valve block, could be a broken thrust washer, could be a shagged clutch pack, could be a lot lot things. What it isn't is easily and cheaply fixable unless you are a) very lucky and b ) can be arsed.

The problem with the Volvos (and others), is that they "fill for life". With life being the definition decided by Volvo. You won't see a problem in the first 5 years and probably even 10 years. But, if like most of us, you want to be bringing it past that age and 100k+ miles, then you do need to change the fluid. Because its not part of a service interval, the fluid often never gets changed by owners until its too late and the box is borked.

 

However if you catch/do it early enough, you can fix some issues and revive/save it. Hence this is why often ATF changes actually "fix" gearbox problems. Unfortunately not really a owners fault, as even if they want to be well meaning and get regular services, the fluid won't be changed.

 

The manufacturer on these boxes (Aisin Warner) actually does specify a change interval, just Volvo decided it would be fine to be sealed for life. Just be thankful that the manufacturer made it relatively easy to change the fluid. My mates A6 autobox has no drain hole, so needs the sump bottom removing. Then you refill through a port that has no top access - so you have to force it in. Then to check the level, you need to get the box up to temperature and keep filling that port underneath, until the fluid flows out of the drainhole.

 

One last thing, these AW55 boxes don't have user accessible filters. So don't need to worry about changing that - just make sure the fluid going in is super clean. There is a mesh filter buried deep in the box, but will require a rebuild for access.

 

Incidentally, a lot of these boxes do end up requiring new valve bodies too, due to wear (and some cases, design faults) on them.

[HillmanImp]

Shame you sold that other car that wasn't broken.

 

And that other car that wan't broken.

 

And there was that other one too, it wasn't broken either.

 

And there was another one you had didn't you. I don't recall that being broken...........

[Jim Bell]

But the engines in these have a value. Bollocks to giving it away - I'd break it.

You're quite welcome to. Just come and get it and leave me £400 to sob into.

[Jim Bell]

Shame you sold that other car that wasn't broken.

 

And that other car that wan't broken.

 

And there was that other one too, it wasn't broken either.

 

And there was another one you had didn't you. I don't recall that being broken...........

Things similar to this regularly cross my mind. Usually when I'm browsing ebay for another car to buy.

[HillmanImp]

Things similar to this regularly cross my mind. Usually when I'm browsing ebay for another car to buy.

 

On the other hand of course, I have had one of my broken cars for 12 years now and another one for 6 years. I could've saved up and paid for a working Imp for the money I have spent on storage for the one I own, assuming it is even where I left it, I've lost the key.

[Jim Bell]

One of us is not doing it wrong.

[Alan_Green]

Couldn't someone on here lend you something to buy time while the collective figures it out?

[Kiltox]

If I win either roffle drawing today WW can borrow it until he's sorted

[Jim Bell]

I think Overrun is going to have a crack at it at the weekend. There's offers of loan cars too if it comes to it so it's not the end of the world. Just a pain in the arse pocket.

 

Many thanks to everyone that's offered advice, roffle tickets and loan cars during this time of bad judgement and idiocy.

 

You're all a great bunch of anonymous Internet people. Which is rare in both the Internet and in people generally.

[John F]

I've nothing to contribute except commiserations, since I do not like my cars to just have a 'go' and a 'stop' pedal like a dodgem.

 

But it's good to see Autoshite coming together to help one of our own again.

 

Hope it all comes good for you in the end, WW.

[Jim Bell]

False. Dodgems have no stop pedal. A better comparison would have been: Milk Float.

[SiC]

Always a risk when buying any second hand car. Well any complex machine, new or old.

 

As they get older and also more complex, the risk of things breaking will be higher.

 

I've been generally lucky and only had one with issues that I didn't know about. Looks like you just happened to be unlucky this time.

 

Did you speak to the original owner? Even if its just to query what its had done previously as a reference.

[Jim Bell]

Funnily enough he's not answering his phone or messages.

[mrbenn]

Bad luck, Mr Peas   Hope it gets sorted out one way or the other.

[Bren]

Clutch pedals are for winnahs.

 

I often wondered why some auto gearbox specialists only offer a three month warranty.

[scaryoldcortina]

Yo! There is a Laguna here you can use until you are sorted with something else.

 

Of course, if you'd rather get the bus I can totally understand.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrongggg. Older boxes, yeah you probably will be fine. Newer boxes with 5-9 gears, TC lockup in most of those, adaptive shifting, etc. you will break them if you don't use the right spec. There are many examples of garages putting D3 into these AW55 boxes and killing them pretty quickly. Bad advice to give to others, as they can end up with totally dead boxes. You really do need oil that meets spec JWS 3309 (or Toyota T-IV).

 

The good news is that this isn't actually as special as it once was (because more modern cars around). Also the fluid meeting that spec can also meet many other specs too, so you get universal type fluids. Which is exactly what the Mannol is. Here is the label on the back of my bottles of the stuff:

2016-05-03 14.40.14.jpg

 

 

The problem with the Volvos (and others), is that they "fill for life". With life being the definition decided by Volvo. You won't see a problem in the first 5 years and probably even 10 years. But, if like most of us, you want to be bringing it past that age and 100k+ miles, then you do need to change the fluid. Because its not part of a service interval, the fluid often never gets changed by owners until its too late and the box is borked.

 

However if you catch/do it early enough, you can fix some issues and revive/save it. Hence this is why often ATF changes actually "fix" gearbox problems. Unfortunately not really a owners fault, as even if they want to be well meaning and get regular services, the fluid won't be changed.

 

The manufacturer on these boxes (Aisin Warner) actually does specify a change interval, just Volvo decided it would be fine to be sealed for life. Just be thankful that the manufacturer made it relatively easy to change the fluid. My mates A6 autobox has no drain hole, so needs the sump bottom removing. Then you refill through a port that has no top access - so you have to force it in. Then to check the level, you need to get the box up to temperature and keep filling that port underneath, until the fluid flows out of the drainhole.

 

One last thing, these AW55 boxes don't have user accessible filters. So don't need to worry about changing that - just make sure the fluid going in is super clean. There is a mesh filter buried deep in the box, but will require a rebuild for access.

 

Incidentally, a lot of these boxes do end up requiring new valve bodies too, due to wear (and some cases, design faults) on them.

 Didn't no dat, cheers.

 

Converter lock up arrived with the 4HP22 in 1983. Used Dexron as well. As well as this type that kicked in (yo) at 55 mph, later boxes such as the GM four and five speed and the ZF5HP used lock up that occurred in between gearshifts to smooth them out. These used Dexron until around 1996 and the advent of Steptronic. Some of the big power units such as the ZF5HP24 used oils such as Shell LA2634 synthetic and these were the first of the sealed for life units.

 

Sealed for life is a misnomer. I know of a 1998 528i Auto that has 210'000 miles, has never had an oil change and the box is as sweet as a nut. But draining the oil and refilling with new stuff may well kill it and at that age/value/mileage, leave it well alone.

 

But this Volvo box is already dead if it's full of Dexron so - as you state - it's buggered.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

Oh Gawd, terrible news.

[Danblez]

Funnily enough he's not answering his phone or messages.

Fucker, go and shit through his letter box.

 

No way did he change that oil out of the kindness of his heart.

 

Just console yourself with the fact that what goes around comes around. With the services to shite you perform all will come good in the end and he will be left crying at the side of the road watching his new laguna go up in flames.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Funnily enough he's not answering his phone or messages.

What about the front door? He'll have to open that at some point.

 

What you could do is send the V5 back to DVLA with his name and address on it, before getting as many parking tickets as possible. Put your foot down for speed cameras - 53 in a 30 is lovely. Then dump the heap of shit back on his drive. Deadlock it and throw the keys down the drain.

[Jim Bell]

Life is far too short dude.  I've got enough positive things to be getting on with for the moment. 

[binhoker668]

This thread has filled me full of dread.  Almost exactly like the dread I would have if I had just purchased an estate V70 with the very last of our magic beans.  

*shiver*

[loserone]

I'd entirely forgotten about this car.  

[Jim Bell]

1 hour ago, binhoker668 said:

This thread has filled me full of dread.  Almost exactly like the dread I would have if I had just purchased an estate V70 with the very last of our magic beans.  

*shiver*

 

As long as yours is at least not geartronic or all wheel drive, I'm sure you'll be fine man. 

[Jim Bell]

1 hour ago, loserone said:

I'd entirely forgotten about this car.  

I wish I could. 

[binhoker668]

11 minutes ago, Jim Bell said:

 

As long as yours is at least not geartronic or all wheel drive, I'm sure you'll be fine man. 

Funny.

Am off to pick it up now.  With my fear and dread.  

 

[binhoker668]

Am sure picking up a new car is supposed to fun....

[Jim Bell]

25 minutes ago, binhoker668 said:

Am sure picking up a new car is supposed to fun....

I bet your outlook changes greatly once you drive it. I bet it's a hoot and that it'll be no bother. 

 

[stuboy]

any updates?