Achtung! New motorway speed cameras

[New POD]

 

There are some archaic rules about posting 30 mph reminders too. 40 and above is fine, but you have to rely on counting lamp posts for 30. Having said that, you should be paying attention when driving.

 

If it's 40 there WILL be smaller markers every 200 yrds.

[garbaldy]

I think Hirst has hit the nail on the head,

What is with people thinking they have God given right to slow others down, if Mr oh I have to get to my destination a minute quicker is behind then let the fookers past,

This will give you a more stress free journey instead of thinking your making the roads safer you are probably just causing added stress and anger

[HH-R]

I've had a fair few people back off my arse after seeing a camera and "dashcam recording" sticker in the window, but plenty don't too. The latter are usually oblivious to everything anyway, the ones who after shunting you up the arse would burst into tears and claim they just had no idea how it happened.

 

No motorways and few dual carriageways round here so it's all 30 or NSL roads with people who think that they can punish you for sticking to speed limits.

[Pillock]

OK, here's my view on Smart motorways.

 

They're brilliant.

 

They might start to get less brilliant if people weren't so flaming stupid, but at the minute they're brilliant. I base this on using the M42 or M1 south of J12 most mornings, so I'm using a lot of Smart motorways in my working week.

Why are they brilliant? People can't read the signs that say "Congestion - use hard shoulder" so they pack themselves into the traditional running lanes and are doing 45-50. Meanwhile, me and a few other literate people are on the hard shoulder blasting past everyone at 60mph. It's awesome, it's almost like it's a Pillock Lane made just for Pillock. Every single day that I'm working in Solihull, I come on the M42 to come home, I sit in the nearside lane, and there's two miles of making progress in the deserted lane before I have to join the slower traffic (or simply come off on the A45 junction and straight back on, which is often quicker)

 

Even when all the lanes are open, I honestly believe that the variable speed limits are working well. Yeah, they stop me from doing 70mph but I'd rather do a steady fifty than a stop-start seventy. The M1 North of J13 is really really nervy on the brakes and you get people diving across all the lanes to avoid standstill traffic, which even if I'm doing the sensible thing and holding back affects me because I leave a two car gap, and two cars will fill it because they saw brake lights. South of J13, where it's all variable limits, it just keep chugging along and people aren't lane swapping because every lane is going the same speed.

 

And yes, it is an education piece. There is the need to shoot people in the face if they honestly believe there's a "fast lane" and a "slow lane" because that's why they dive around - got to be in the fast lane, oh shit the fast lane is braking, abort abort. Fifteen seconds later, got to be in the fast lane to get home faster.

 

As for speed cameras, it's the chance you take. I do think if you're being observant you are very unlikely to get caught, most of the cameras are visible - even the ones on the back of the gantry give you enough  braking time unless you're doing 154mph. The new ones are easier to see, but like shoplifting, murder and selling drugs to undercover cops - you weigh up the positives (get home quicker) with the negatives (stress of trying to maintain speed in traffic, or stress of getting a letter from the rozzers)

[Pillock]

I would be willing to bet actual, real, physical money that nobody has ever changed their style of driving based on a sticker in somebody's back window. I absolutely can not imagine a situation where somebody is sat there going "Oh, the faster I go, the slower THEY will go?! Oh, I'd best slow down then!" to the point where I think it has probably never happened.

 

Oh, I have - just in the opposite manner to the one you describe.

[noseypoke]

I stick to the limits where conditions allow yada yada. I've got a "You get close I go slow" sticker in my rear window.

 

9mph is my current record.

 

KISS MY RINGPIECE M9z

Where should we send the flowers to?  

[HH-R]

Actually if they go slower the closer you get, that would be ideal - slow them down to about 20mph and then a nice painless overtake! Brilliant.

 

IME, this never, ever happens. For some reason people don't ever want to overtake on single lane roads, even if it's perfectly safe to do so. I often overtake 40 MPH dawdlers on clear, straight NSL roads (rather than tailgate them) and they usually boot the accelerator. I used to pull over for tailgaters to get past (on 30 roads) but the use of the indicator and brake lights confuses them and they also come to a stop, then toot and have a  tantrum before tearing off.

[steve_earwig]

Actually if they go slower the closer you get, that would be ideal - slow them down to about 20mph and then a nice painless overtake! Brilliant.

That was my thought, although I tried doing that here but I had one twat in a Å koda pull in front and slow right down - "Yeah, I know this game" and one guy in an Aldi overtake then slam on and stop, then get something out of his glovebox and start to get out of his car - "If that's a gun I'm running you down". So I don't bother any more, I don't speed up, I don't slow down. Which doesn't always work either, last year I had an artic overtake me on a road that wouldn't even qualify as a B road in the UK, forcing me and 3 cars coming the other way off the road.

 

They might start to get less brilliant if people weren't so flaming stupid, but at the minute they're brilliant. I base this on using the M42 or M1 south of J12 most mornings, so I'm using a lot of Smart motorways in my working week.

Why are they brilliant? People can't read the signs that say "Congestion - use hard shoulder" so they pack themselves into the traditional running lanes and are doing 45-50. Meanwhile, me and a few other literate people are on the hard shoulder blasting past everyone at 60mph. It's awesome, it's almost like it's a Pillock Lane made just for Pillock.

Which is ok until one of the twerps in the queue sees cars zooming past on the hard shoulder and thinks "I'll have some of that", pulls onto it without looking and...

[Pillock]

 

Which is ok until one of the twerps in the queue sees cars zooming past on the hard shoulder and thinks "I'll have some of that", pulls onto it without looking and...

 

I would be up for arguing that they were in the wrong and I in the right - yes, it doesn't help me get to work on time if I've written off the car, but they shouldn't be changing lanes in either direction without looking so I'd be OK with my hire car and whiplash claim. Nothing different to Lane 3 slowing right down and people diving into Lane 2, you check first.

 

The rules on undertaking seem to be that you can pass cars on their left if your lane is moving faster than theirs. It seems to be naughty if you deliberately move to a left hand lane to accelerate around something (however that shouldn't really happen, there shouldn't be a gap to their left)

[rantingYoof]

The whole tail-gating thing perplexes me. There seem to be certain types that you encounter on certain roads...

 

On the motorway, you typically get the people who storm up behind you as you are overtaking and sit two metres from your bumper until you pull in, at which point they zoom off agressively and sit behind the next person's bumper, rinse/repeat. These are impatient arseholes.

 

On all roads you get the people who simply cannot maintain a specific distance at all, or a consistent speed, meaning that as you trundle along at the speed limit, they spend some of their time hanging off your bumper, then dropping back to thirty metres, then creeping up to your bumper again, dropping back, rinse/repeat. These are distracted drivers - bellowing at sex-trophies, messing with sat-navs or phones or whatever proves to be a distraction.

 

And then you simply get the people who are missing the part of their brain that registers danger. I encountered one of these yesterday, as I drove along a wide, fast A road. It was a rare occasion where everyone was spaced out and moving at 60mph, rather than being convoyed behind an HGV or behind a small hatchback which braked at every oncoming vehicle/corner/economic crash etc.

 

The car behind me was a Lexus IS thing, brand spanking new, and no matter what speed I was doing, it followed me with a never-changing gap of around five metres. Well, I don't know the distance - it's hard to say, but if I were a passenger I'd have my foot planted firmly on the floor where the brake pedal would be and I'd be clenched someone with the squits on a ghost train.

 

I decided to give them the chance to overtake me, and on a nice long straight bit of road, wide with excellent visibility, I lifted off the throttle and coasted down to around 50mph. Obvious bait to overtake in a safe place, but they simply slowed down and matched my speed and maintained the very small gap between us.

 

Out of a 30mph village (through which they continued to tail-gate), I planted it in 3rd gear all the way up to the speed limit, and managed to get a bit of distance. They sped up, caught up with me, got to within five metres or so, and then settled down again.

 

My mind was boggling, the driver looked bored at the wheel - elbow on the window-sill in the car with black shades on.

 

No matter what the limit was, where we were, this gap was maintained until we finally came to a big roundabout, whereupon they opted for a different lane, and the driver blithely drove past and didn't even look.

 

The fuck was this? Laser-guided cruisie control? A complete fuck-wit? I'm at a loss really.

 

I'm sure a '15 plated Lexus would do its share of damage in a front-to-rear crash, even to a modern Volvo, but at least the towbar on the back would make sure they'd be seeking a new rad and hopefully some other vital internal bits and pieces of their hybrid engine.

[Skizzer]

We need more policing, not more cameras. 

 

This.  

 

I got caught last week by a new 'smart motorway' camera - 81 on a more-or-less deserted M4 passing Bristol late on Sunday night.  

 

Fair enough, the limit's the limit and I was over it - but my point is that given the amount of truly stupid, blatantly dangerous driving I see every week on the M4 at busier times, it seems ludicrous that this is the only traffic enforcement that happens now. Can't remember the last time I saw a traffic car: it's been years, literally.

 

As an aside, there are no camera signs on that stretch and the variable speed limit signs were all switched off - I thought cameras were supposed to be marked?

[forddeliveryboy]

We need more policing, not more cameras.

 

More driver education would be at the top of my list.

[chaseracer]

^ Both.  For those of us who've been driving for years, too.

[coalnotdole]

it seems ludicrous that this is the only traffic enforcement that happens now. Can't remember the last time I saw a traffic car: it's been years, literally.

 

 

I was caught out by an umarked police car on the M4 Last month, So they definately exist (Grey 3 series saloon.) It was dark and I never clocked it was a police car until the blue lights came on!

 

The officers comment was that he generally took an interest in cars going faster than 85mph providing there was no other problem with how they were being driven.

 

Needless to say I was going quicker than that and was duly fined and picked up a few points on my (formerlly) clean licence.

 

I far prefer traffic officers enforcing the law, Its well known motorways are the safest type of road it smacks of pure greed to line them with cameras.

 

FWIW I really think the motorway speed limits should be increased to at least put them in line with those on the continent and personally I'd support faster limits at offpeak times and on quieter streches. It would need to be combined with better driver education and practical motorway driving to be included as part of the drivers test. Can't see it happening though.

[forddeliveryboy]

I agree, more human police would be a good thing. 

 

But I wish all these cameras and variable speed limits could be used more sensibly - a few weeks ago I travelled up the M1 at night and traffic was held at a controlled 40mph for 5 miles with 'workforce in road' displayed before we saw a traffic officer had broken down/stopped for something on the HS. There then followed several similar abuses of power, over about 40 miles. I don't often allow myself to grow frustrated when driving, but this was crazy, I did give the wheel a thump. It was gone 11 by the time a temporary digital sign read, "The M1 team appreciates your patience", followed by a small de-restricted sign but the variable limits then sat at 50. Confusion reigned to the point of danger. The M18 was clear for a few miles, then closed to one lane with the first workmen anyone had seen that night, but no speed restricitons. Then the A1 backed up where they diverted everyone over a roundabout above the carriageway.

 

Once the road cleared, nobody showed any respect for speed laws. The road was dry, it was quietish and I saw some of the most considerate and good quality driving I've seen in ages. Everyone was breaking the law, some were even driving at a speed they judged was safe given their car, the road and the conditions.

 

So why not cut limits in the wet as they do in France? Why not relax the limits on open, quiet stretches of motorway? I think a lot of bad driving is people who've given up being considerate because the law isn't operated in a considerate manner any more. Using cameras as nothing more than a supertax isn't going to improve anything.

[SiC]

This.  

 

I got caught last week by a new 'smart motorway' camera - 81 on a more-or-less deserted M4 passing Bristol late on Sunday night.  

 

Fair enough, the limit's the limit and I was over it - but my point is that given the amount of truly stupid, blatantly dangerous driving I see every week on the M4 at busier times, it seems ludicrous that this is the only traffic enforcement that happens now. Can't remember the last time I saw a traffic car: it's been years, literally.

 

As an aside, there are no camera signs on that stretch and the variable speed limit signs were all switched off - I thought cameras were supposed to be marked?

You mean like this?

 

Or this?

 

Or like every other gantry down that part of the M4 outside Bristol, that also has speed camera distant markings on the road too.

 

Incidentally, the M5 down just after the M4/M5 interchange is one of the tops areas that catches the most motorists than any other part of the country. I always am seeing people barrelling down around the Bristol stretch of motorway and seeing the speed camera flashes going off on them. I do have to say, I was very sceptical of the whole managed motorway thing at first, however the previous M4/M5 car park at rush hour now does generally still keep moving at peak times (unless there has been an accident).

[SiC]

The radars used in these is made by a company that I may just know someone, who knows someone, who knows someone else, who is someone, etc, etc that used to be a engineer for and happened to have worked on them...

 

They're damn good radars and beat the competition out of the water for accuracy. The actual tolerances for radars approved for use on speed enforcement are larger than most people would imagine they are. However the radars in these are by far more accurate than those requirements. Possibly why they have confidence in using them all the time. I don't know if it was ever used in this application, but they're also capable of classifying the type of vehicle in each lane - so in theory possible to detect a HGV/etc speeding too. Not sure if that was actually possible to be approved for use in the end though.

 

As a by-product of the radar module and the way they work, they're output significantly less Microwave energy than older types. So most radar detectors don't pick them up until its too late. When these were first used out in the states, a small group of (militant) protesters were convinced that it was designed like that on purpose to get around radar detectors - when in fact it was just a unintended feature.

 

Another interesting little tit-bit of info. If you want to argue an approved detector is inaccurate, there are two ways. The first is to claim the detector is out of tolerance - but this would need to be backed-up with an out-of-date calibration and/or the secondary piece of evidence showing this (i.e. the 2 photos taken with the distant markers). If this is correct, then the other way is that you have to prove the inherent design is flawed with evidence and make that case to the secretary of state.

[willswitchengage]

What's the problem? If it's a proper car it won't even get to 70 anyway!

[Andrew353w]

I must admit to having a problem about the "occasional" use of the hard shoulder for normal traffic during busy times. I appreciate that the local council/highways agency etc want everyone to keep moving but I grew up and learnt to drive when the hard shoulder was just that-a hard shoulder! A rule that changes depending on the time of day strikes me as a recipe for disaster!

 

I'm concerned that an accident or breakdown on the motorway would cause even greater delays when the hard shoulder is being used for normal traffic then it otherwise would. In addition, a small broken down car on the hard shoulder being struck from behind by something bigger don't bear thinking about! Besides which, how do the emergency vehicles get through to the scene of an accident at busy times if NOT along the hard shoulder?

 

Build 4 lane motorways by all means, but build a hard shoulder too. Any other arrangement seems to be a penny-pinching one.

 

I realise my opinions are those of a driver aged 56 (next week!) but I've driven since I was 17 & 5 weeks and do 20K+ miles per year, without serious incident!

Edited March 6, 2016 by Andrew353w

[SiC]

I'm concerned that an accident or breakdown on the motorway would cause even greater delays when the hard shoulder is being used for normal traffic then it otherwise would. In addition, a small broken down car on the hard shoulder being struck from behind by something bigger don't bear thinking about! Besides which, how do the emergency vehicles get through to the scene of an accident at busy times if NOT along the hard shoulder?

There are two ways that they tried to deal with this. The first is emergency parking areas that if you haven't suffered a complete FTP, you can pull in and stop. Like this:

 

Secondly there is cameras all the way down the motorway in these sections monitored 24/7 by humans, that have control over the speed limits and lane openings. So if someone did happen to breakdown and was stuck in the hard shoulder which is currently acting as a lane, they can switch-off using the hard-shoulder as an extra lane.

[Andrew353w]

There are two ways that they tried to deal with this. The first is emergency parking areas that if you haven't suffered a complete FTP, you can pull in and stop. Like this:

Screenshot 2016-03-06 15.52.27.png

 

Secondly there is cameras all the way down the motorway in these sections monitored 24/7 by humans, that have control over the speed limits and lane openings. So if someone did happen to breakdown and was stuck in the hard shoulder which is currently acting as a lane, they can switch-off using the hard-shoulder as an extra lane.

 

 

 

Thanks! I feel slightly reassured having read your thread. I presume the same system applies to the top part of the M25, from junctions 23 to 25. How quickly can the humans respond though.....

[Split_Pin]

If somebody sits on my arse when I am doing the speed limit and thinks they've got a God given right to speed me up then it's tough shit, they have been warned by the sticker.

 

The camera thing doesn't bother me, I rarely do 70. Fast enough to keep out the road of the big wagons but slow enough to let all the morons fly past. Makes a nice stress-free drive for me.

[Lacquer Peel]

Why are so many people against the enforcement of the national speed limit???

 

If it was more strictly policed and people got it through their thick dumbass skulls about speed being a massive factor in fatal accidents, we would have less people dying on the motorway network in the u.k!

 

Now I'm no angel and have been naughty with the speed in my past time as a driver. I do realise how stupid some of my previous antics were, I am actively seeking to better my driving style but am currently fairly nervous on major motorways!

 

Speed and idiotic decisions were the only 2 factors involved in me and bubs latest accident ... It has really made me reassess my driving so I say bring on the cameras on the entire motorway network! Maybe it will encourage others to drive slower than 100mph and save a few lives, if you can't stick to the maximum legal limit then you deserve everything you get! I was lucky and never got caught and never killed anyone .... Stop crying about it and just slow down, you'll be less stressed and will use less fuel FACT!

 

That is all

 

Road safety messiah now?

 

I think it's an issue where there are variable speed limits and the limit isn't well signposted.

The A9 north of Perth is covered by average speed cameras which would have frustrated me a while ago but I find the road so much more relaxing to drive on now, dangerous driving and kamikaze overtaking are all but eliminated.

[Dave_Q]

We had this when the managed bit of the M62 opened up here, big story in the local rag that the cameras were on at all times.

 

I never go through them at more than an indicated 75 or so but many people do and they rarely seem to flash.

 

It can be annoying that the limit isn't higher but most times I'm on there you're lucky to be doing 40 anyway.

[bub2006]

I've gone from a 60bhp van to a 100ish bhp auto car. When I first started using Volvo I did have to watch my speedo. It certainly does pick up better

[forddeliveryboy]

Nearly dying seems to have that effect yes ... Total change of tune I know but sometimes it takes a big shock I suppose.

 

 

I nearly died when a policeman told me how fast his calibrated speedometer had reckoned I'd been going, I'd seen the 5 series behind me in the dark but didn't realise the police bought German. This was 1989, I should add. M90. Bollox. Somewhere near where that massive sign appeared which wasn't very polite to Gordy Broon.

 

Anyway, I was treated with a respect which was humbling, but made to crap myself as they went through what the Prosuranus-Fissal may think and say. But having witnessed flawless* driving and good tyres, no duck tape holding mirrors on or twin core holding silencers up, I was set free from the back of the BMW. "Just think what a mess you'd be if you hit a bridge at that speed". 

 

It worked, I slowed down as well as respecting the law and the Fife Constabulary.