French shite - Is it shite for them too?

[srad34]

....Okay as most modernish French cars are regarded as a monumental pain in the arse due to electronics and other associated build problems, how do the French regard them?

 

We all have a soft spot for Rover's and anything Brit made, do the frogs (meant in the most affectionate way) refer to their cars in the same regard, endlessly defending their shiteness and revelling in their quirky nature?

 

OR....Are they embarassed at making such monumental shite, only to qwaff cheap wine and onions whilst drawing on their gauloses tabs, bemused as to why they keep selling?

 

Just a thought..... 

 

Any comments, onions, sorry, opinions and images of large breasted women draped over citroens welcomed.....

[garethj]

I've got no idea, but I think part of the problem with modern French cars over here is that independent mechanics don't like them as they can be difficult to diagnose so once a car falls out of the dealer servicing the owner is stuffed.  I can't be sure that dealer servicing is brilliant either, so you're on the way to being stuffed once the warranty runs out.

 

In France they probably don't have such a fear of the cars and they're bloody everywhere so the mechanics get plenty of practice.  They also have more national pride in buying cars made in the homeland and less of this aspirational shit we have in the UK where everyone's more impressed by a £20,000 BMW with no passenger sun visor or rear wiper, than they are with a £20,000 Ford loaded with options.

[timolloyd]

I think they're the same as many in this country: some residual patriotism and nostalgia for their home-grown marques. Also the economy has been even worse there than in the UK, for a long time. So I guess they might be keeping their old French cars for longer?*

 

*Plus they have lower expectations when it comes to quality. But I didn't say that   

[Cavcraft]

I'll give the French their due, they have always seemed really keen on buying their own products.

[scaryoldcortina]

I was at a wedding recently, and got chatting to a french guy who also plays guitar so we sat and had a bit of a laugh and a jam instead of going to the disco*. I told him about the Laguna (this is before I even picked it up) and his reply was to laugh a lot and say something in french that I didn't quite catch and probably doesn't translate easily.

[dave21478]

All I see, all day, every day on the roads is countless streams of unidentifiable blobs with swept-back headlights and big alloys. 90% have a Pug, Cit or Renner badge on the front, although Dacia are coming on strongly. Fords and Opels are rare, and the rest are the Germanic luxury* saloons, although most of these are low spec diesels, debadged and with fancy wheels etc to make them look better than they are.

 

My Daily is a 99 Escort and its usually the oldest car in sight by a decade. Yes, there are still 405s and mkI clios and AXs and stuff like that around, but numbers are dwindeling noticeably year by year. I live in a poor rural area.....actually, I dont. I live in a rural area filled with minted farmers who are tighter than two coats of paint, so there is still a lot of C15s on the go, and the local market looks like a C15 owners club meet, but even these which were incredibly popular with everyone in the countryside are fading out to be replaced by Partners and Berlingos, and even these are being dropped in favour of Nemos and Bippers and whatever the fuck the new versions are called.

 

Leasing adverts are everywhere, dealerships concentrate their advertising more on finance options than vehicle spec, There have been scrappage schemes and are likely to be more of them.

 

Repair garages churn through French cars all day every day so they have the tools and the knowledge to cope with them. Good luck trying to find somewhere willing to change a Vectra timing belt though.

 

 

 

TL:DR - its all fucked. 

[Cavcraft]

Could just be me, but those Berlingos and Partners seem incredibly tough.

[Frogchod]

loads of old Rover chod around here, I probably see more Rovers than Fords.

This is a good thing.

[R9UKE]

Having recently visited and fallen further in love with the country, I think their attitude to the way the cars are made and the way they put up with the colourful reliability record is much because of their general culture and "meh" attitude.

 

Very laid back, unstressed people who just appreciate the best things in life. When the Vel Satis throws a wobbler, fuck it, have an espresso on the terrace and chill out.

 

They know their cars are delicate, they know there is better stuff out there but they also take pride in driving stuff that cements them as a nation.

 

I bloody salute them. I'd move there tomorrow.

[Junkman]

 

They also have more national pride in buying cars made in the homeland and less of this aspirational shit we have in the UK where everyone's more impressed by a £20,000 BMW with no passenger sun visor or rear wiper, than they are with a £20,000 Ford loaded with options.

 

To the contrary. Most of the new chod in France is German low spec without model designation badges, in white, so they didn't even have to shell out extra for silver metallic.

They know better than anyone else that ORL MODERNZ IZ SHIT, hence they are crazy about Youngtimers and older chod.

What I hadn't relised until last year's holiday is, that the 405 has acquired some sort of cult status over there. On several occasions people complimented me on mine

or gave me thumbs up on the Autoroute.

[SiC]

Well at least in France, the roads are generally quieter and the weather is more predicable. When your car breaks, having a picnic on the verge in nice weather is much nicer than standing on the verge in the pouring rain! 

 

I was always told, don't know how true it is, the base models (i.e. Renault Authentique, etc) are the most popular second hand models on modern French stuff in France, as there is far less to break on them and go wrong...

[dave21478]

Could just be me, but those Berlingos and Partners seem incredibly tough.

 

Last of the decent small vans. A lot of folk are finding the newer versions arent much cop.....small, gutless turbo diesels that need high revs to prevent stalling, rolling on wide low profile tyres are not ideal for a muddy track or snow.

The other guy who works at one of the places I do has a Berlingo which he rates pretty well for comfort and reliability, but even that wont get out of his drive in the snow while his old C15 would with ease.

[Mad Cyril]

The most reliable cars I've owned have been French or British.

The least reliable have undoubtedly been German.
 

We should perhaps ask a similar question about the Germans/German shite but I'd imagine they're too wrapped up in their gullible advertising bullshite bubble to face anything approaching the truth (much like 90% of Brits).

(Is it obvious that I've had a rough day?)

[egg]

Can't answer the question directly - but being in French cars in France seems to make them a lot better!

 

I remember on a French exchange when I was 11 being driven around by a maniac dad in his sporty 405 using both sides of the road seemly at random

 

and later in my early 20's an old family friend wafting me around Provence showing me the sights with a mate in a CX estate in the late 90's

 

Both experiences stick in the mind.

[mrcitroen]

I gave up on modern Citroens after my Xantia. For some reason, after that they held no appeal whatsoever to me. Thought the first gen C5 was too ugly to even think about. Decided to buy an Alfa instead as I always had a soft spot for Alfas.

 

Cannot comment on how reliable or shit they are, or what of the 3 makes is the best.

[406V6]

We should perhaps ask a similar question about the Germans/German shite but I'd imagine they're too wrapped up in their gullible advertising bullshite bubble to face anything approaching the truth (much like 90% of Brits).

I'm currently sat in the German part of Foren not far from various huge B** factories that grow bigger every year. Predictably you see stacks of B** of all ages everywhere. They are the locally made car. Not quite as many Aldi and few Opel or Ford.  More Dacia than frog motors: I haven't seen a modern Peugeot or Citroen at all.

 

[chodweaver]

The problem facing French cars over here is that the more complex ones don't sell in great enough numbers for the dealers to be able to fix them. Citroen used to combat this by heavily discounting new stock, driving the value of the used market down and it's customers away from main dealers servicing, creating a vicious circle - pick up cheap but complex and comparatively rare four year old car on which the main dealer experience is limited to basic servicing. When something goes wrong after the warranty, they don't have a clue. Cue the specialist independent fixers who may or may not charge the earth, plus the parts prices that will probably be substantial, and you have a glut of cheap used and frequently borked Renner and Citroen chod. Disposable motoring for the masses. About the least green thing that could happen.

 

But in France, the popularity of the small hatch eclipses any of the UK's penchants for a particular type or make of car, plus their patriotism in car buying means that whenever I've been there (and not on an autoroute), the stuff surrounding me is basic, diesel, French, Italian or at a push Spanish made, treated like shit and driven hard all the time. I except the autoroute as different rules seem to apply on them - I don't know if the concept of the company car exists in France to the same extent that it used to in Britain, but it always used to seem that it did - for the stuff on the autoroutes was bigger, faster, newer and much more likely to be German. The only thing similar was that it would still be being driven hard.

When I first went to France about twenty years ago, I was surprised by how much they seemed to like Rovers. They seemed to have bought a lot of 200 and 400 series. I never found out why that was...

 

But to answer the original question, I don't think the French are in love with their cars the way the British are. I think it is less important as a status symbol, more a means to an end. They do seem to take a perverse pride in how their car seems to have been abused. Accordingly, more importance is attached to how the car is driven - cavalier or even aggressive driving is not the preserve of the young cock - men and women, young and old, use their car to assert their dominance through their driving style. The further south and the hotter the climate, the more this seems to be so. I'm still amazed anybody south of Lyon survives past their 23rd year.

 

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[chodweaver]

PS if it sounds like I don't like France or the French, it's not true. I love both. I've always been struck by the difference in car cultures though, and as long as I'm avoiding driving in French cities, I love driving over there too.

 

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[DSdriver]

I have been surprised by the amount of far-eastern stuff bought by the French. They no longer seem to have their gallic pride. I am thinking of asking the French ministry of culture or whatever they have to sponsor my two DS because they bring so much pleasure to the populace when I drive them over there. It seems the French do not use their classics like we do.

[barrett]

To the contrary. Most of the new chod in France is German low spec without model designation badges, in white, so they didn't even have to shell out extra for silver metallic.

I'd take issue with that. White cars have always vastly outsold any other colour in France, since the late '60s at least. I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure it's not to do with being too tight for metallic paint. This is why it was such a big deal when the Twingo was launched and they didn't offer white paint... Renault top brass were genuinely worried that they wouldn't sell any but le Quement managed to get his way, and was proved right in the end.

[overrun]

The most reliable cars I've owned have been French or British.

The least reliable have undoubtedly been German.

 

We should perhaps ask a similar question about the Germans/German shite but I'd imagine they're too wrapped up in their gullible advertising bullshite bubble to face anything approaching the truth (much like 90% of Brits).

 

(Is it obvious that I've had a rough day?)

 

SMB?

[garethj]

As Mrs_garethj is French I know the reason for white cars being popular; it's because it's better at reflecting the sun when it's parked up through the afternoon.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

From my observations, the French are very loyal to their indigenous manufacturers . It would be unthinkable for utility companies and local authorities to buy anything foreign .

One exception to this ,I noticed during the blanket news coverage of the Paris terrorist attacks , is the Police that were filmed arriving in plain clothes then getting kitted up with body armour and big fuckoff machine guns, they all arrived in Focuses,Mondeos and Galaxys- maybe when it's really important someone gets somewhere even the French realise Renaults aren't a good idea.

[Lacquer Peel]

It's more likely that Ford put in the lowest bid, because cheapest = best in a capitalist society.

[legasoil96]

The farmers vans are always best in white, they build up a nice patina. When I went in November I kept seeing more transits and jap pickups are on the rise. Also Minis are getting popular, there was a radio advert for mini with a stereotypical englishman attempting french . 

[chaseracer]

Could just be me, but those Berlingos and Partners seem incredibly tough.

 

Yep.

[artdjones]

The motor market is run a bit differently in France.France is much bigger than England and more rural.In the UK and here in Ireland the manufacturers have carried out a ruthless consolidation of their dealer networks.They want huge dealerships spread far apart and housed in enormous glass gin palaces that cost the earth,all for the sake of corporate identity.That means most small towns don't have a manufacturer's agency anymore.As England is fairly thickly populated this may not be too much of a problem.

In contrast,in France every small town has an official Renault,Citroen or Peugeot garage,often quite small,with a two or three car showroom.Most of these dealerships seem to be long-established,unlike the UK where dealers change franchises regularly,often because of manufacturer inspired consolidation as mentioned above.The huge , unchanging dealer networks give the three French marques an advantage.If you were buying a new car there,you would probably prefer to go to the local dealer and be able to cycle back from dropping your car off for a service,rather than driving 80-100km to a strange town and hanging round all day waiting to get your car back.And the chances are that the local dealer will be a French one.Probably the lower costs help these small dealers too.If you don't have to borrow €2m euros to build a huge showroom and stock it then your labour rate will probably be the equivalent of £40 per hour rather than £100 per hour.So a complex 10 hour job will only cost £400 labour instead of £1000.The mechanics will be familiar with the cars,unlike the average A***** C**** Citroen or Renault mechanic,whose garage only took on the franchise 4 months ago.French people maintain their cars better than the Brits,partly because you are liable for faults that develop after you sell your car ,evenif it's a private sale.You can't just unload your troubles onto someone else via Gumtree.

 

Having said all that,my experience is that the only manufacturers who make generally reliable cars are Japanese.French cars are no worse than German ones for repair costs.The only difference seems to be that owners don't mind spending £7-800 on their Audi,because high residuals mean that the Audi keeps a lot of its value.A French equivalent doesn't merit spending the money,in its owner's eyes,because it's only worth 30-50% of what the Audi is.Personally,the worst cars in our family have been German.

[Mad Cyril]

SMB?

 

SMB?

 

I've googled it and apparently means 'Suck My Balls' which sounds excellent.

[Urko]

My Ma lives in France for half the year and I work closely with some French colleagues. Of course there's no one answer to this, but working for a US multinational I often think the French and Americans have more in common than they care to admit. Both nations feel they have superior technology and engineering, and food.

 

My Ma laughs about the contrast between young French Mums where the height of trendiness in Leclerc's car park is a Bipper or Nemo, vs their UK counterparts wanting to be seen in the biggest, nastiest looking ALDI Q7 o.n.o.

 

The thing about municipal purchases makes a lot of sense. It really is nuts that all our councils/Police stopped buying domestically produced stuff.

[garethj]

Good point about garage labour rates.  Pass me the tinfoil hat, but did UK dealers put their servicing prices up just after they were forced to drop the prices of new cars?  It was ages ago when all the newspapers had stories of people saving 2 grand on a new car by getting it from Belgium.  Before that, dealer labour rates were quite reasonable I think, unlike now where they charge more per hour than a brain surgeon, a solicitor and even a plumber.