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Why didn't they make.....?


mercrocker

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When Rootes did the Tiger, they also built prototypes (of which a few still exist, so it's not a legend) of the big Humbers and even the small Vogues/Minxes/Sceptres with SB Ford V8s.

Especially the latter would have spawned a whole new class of car.

 

Sad M/F moment - When I dump old car/bike mags, I cut out and keep (in box files - easy to store, saves space) any interesting articles and I recall I have one from a mag like Motor or Autocar or something from the seventies which goes into the story of the V8 engined Humbers (the Hawk???) and why it didn't work. Essentially, the engine fitted fine and initially went well but fuel economy was ruinous, when they put smaller barrel carbs on it that improved economy a bit but it was now slow as fuck and was no better than the existing six, hence it got binned.

 

On another note, what about a Rover 75 Coupe - I've seen a (assume photoshopped?) picture of one either on here on in a magazine and despite not particularly liking 75's, I thought a 75 coop looked really good.

If someones got one, post it and see what others think.

 

The other thing was an MX5 coupe (Mk1/NA), they did make one or two but never went into production. Some hate them, I like them.

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I had forgotten about those Barreiros cars but can still recall the anti-Franco sentiments here (didn't stop us all buggering off on holiday there, though...). I share your misgivings about the big Opels but the Commodore would have worked well here, and indeed it did in "B" phase - the 2.8GSE was particularly well received. It wasn't just the big Daimler that worried Jag management - I think they were a bit spooked by the Dart as well and declined to develop the car. A planned restyle with the Ogle body that became the Scimitar is another missed shot.

 

- Shelving the Daimler Dart was probably not a bad idea considering that this there gopping She-Type weirdly was successful. The Dart was firstly not suitable for mass production courtesy of its novel GRP body, secondly would have cut directly into E-Type sales clear as a whistle. So to bank on the car made with conventional production methods may have been one of the rare sensible decisions made by British car industry management.

 

- I bet commodoresque Vauxhalls would have sold well in the UK. The Victors on steroids they actually made seem to hardly have enticed even the flatcap brigade. I've only ever seen them driven by a handful of total giffers in .at and assume it wasn't much different in their home country. Commodores however were aspiring young executive material just as well as giffer pets (the latter in JRG k00p with vinyl top flavour) and also appealed massively to the caravanners. Just imagine an estate version, another missed chance, this time on both sides of the Channel. Make mine with woodgrain, like the Opel Ascona Voyage.

 

- I can't see a Vauxhall big Opel equivalent having worked well in the UK. Despite their looks suggest terminal waftbargetasticness, the big Opels are actually surprisingly nippy, quasi sports saloons, but price-wise they would have had to compete with the Jags, and being Vauxhalls, they would have simply lacked the necessary badge image. However, the idea of a big Vauxhall with SBC powah and DeDion rear axle I find strangely appealing despite orl vrxurls iz shit, m8.

 

- I seriously wonder why Vauxhall (and Opel, actually) didn't call on Holden more often, when it came to big cars. They could have simply called them off when there was demand and told the Crocodile Dundees to shove it when there wasn't. How risk-free is that for a profit? Instead, they screwed six inch longer front wings to Victors so a Bedford engine could be dropped in.

 

- Interestingly, the PC Cresta was designed to hold a SBC (this is proven, not a legend!), and such an engine can be fitted without any problems. However, the only V8 versions were produced in South Africa and came with - are you ready? - a Chrysler 318! Unlike Chrysler, who didn't allow Ford engines in any of their products, GM had no reservations whatsoever to use engines from a direct competitor.

 

- I don't know whether I could have long resisted a Humber-badged Barreiros Dodge 3700GT on Rostyles in the shop window of my local Rootes Group dealership and then told everyone at the pub how much I despise those there appalling dictatorships. Imagine the level of sheer prime shiteness such a machine would provide today!

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A proper RWD Cambridge/Westminster replacement instead of that weird FWD landcrab nonsense.

 

My dad has said the exact same thing for years... His reasoning is if the basic concept behind the car is sound, then just keep updating it to keep pace with the tech (much like Peugeot, Mercedes and Volvo did). 

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With reference to big Vauxhalls and the potential for either Small Block PC's or upmarket Commodore fighters,I would refer you to Vauxpedia, there are some amazing design proposals and prototypes on there.

My favourite has to be the Oldsmobile Toronado engined Cresta that they built and evaluated.

Yes the 7.0 Litre Front Wheel Drive Toronado, 20 years before Vauxhall sold their first FWD car.post-17414-0-81671000-1438178352_thumb.jpg

WTF were they smoking at Luton in the 60's ?

 

http://vauxpedianet.uk2sitebuilder.com

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With reference to big Vauxhalls and the potential for either Small Block PC's or upmarket Commodore fighters,I would refer you to Vauxpedia, there are some amazing design proposals and prototypes on there.

My favourite has to be the Oldsmobile Toronado engined Cresta that they built and evaluated.

Yes the 7.0 Litre Front Wheel Drive Toronado, 20 years before Vauxhall sold their first FWD car.attachicon.gifimage.jpg

WTF were they smoking at Luton in the 60's ?

 

http://vauxpedianet.uk2sitebuilder.com

 

Tyres, I would imagine! Fantastic...

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Yup. And which was first - BMC's or Peugeot's Farina?

 

BMC stuff started in late 1958 with the Wolseley 15/60, don't know how long the 404 sat on Sochaux drawing boards before its 1960 launch.

The FIAT equivalents came out somewhere in between these two.

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Volvo 480 cabriolet and targa

BMW 635 Csi convertible

Maserati 228 Spyder

Rolls Royce Camargue convertible

Rover SD1 coupe and convertible

Fiat 130 Coupe based Shooting Break

Fiat Coupe Spyder

 

BMW Sechser Cabriolets were made, but like with the Dreier Cabrio by Baur, the job was outsourced to a company called ABC.

They were available through the BMW dealer network and came with full factory warranty.

 

ABC_Exclusive_E24_Vert.jpg

 

Pininfarina made a 130 estate based on the coupe, the Maremma:

 

36890d1158703464-ugly-beautiful-maremma1

 

also a saloon:

Pininfarina_Fiat_130_Maremma_SB_1974_10.

 

Dario Casale made a hearse:

130casale.jpg

 

And at least one cabriolet exists. It was for sale a few years ago in Norway, of all places.

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Sad M/F moment - When I dump old car/bike mags, I cut out and keep (in box files - easy to store, saves space) any interesting articles and I recall I have one from a mag like Motor or Autocar or something from the seventies which goes into the story of the V8 engined Humbers (the Hawk???) and why it didn't work. Essentially, the engine fitted fine and initially went well but fuel economy was ruinous, when they put smaller barrel carbs on it that improved economy a bit but it was now slow as fuck and was no better than the existing six, hence it got binned.

 

What did they expect? That power comes from warm water?

The project was killed off by Chrysler, though, not because OMGMPG. The Tiger tells the story. It's also a separate chapter in The Chrysler Chronicle by James M. Flammang.

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Volvo 480 cabriolet and targa

 

Cabriolet existed, in small numbers as an aftermarket conversion. You can even get a model of it. Looks a little like a Renault 19 treatment of the hood cover and there was a roll bar.

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Cars that should (and could) have existed...

 

Citroën XM V6 Activa (4x4 optional)

Ford Capri 24v Cosworth (as a proper, terrifying last hurrah)

MG F V6 - slightly longer wheelbase. TWO HEAD GASKETS TO FAIL! OMG! Would have sounded glorious.

Audi B2 Convertible

Triumph Stag fastback, with Sprint heads on a sorted V8

Vauxhall Chevette GT/E Coupé (was kinda produced for Argentina, I think - Condor?)

Citroën CX Coupé/Decap (there were a couple of decaps made, IIRC)

Peugeot 406 Coupé ragtop
Toyota Sera 1.3 Turbo

Chrysler Neon 2dr R/T with supercharger from the MINI

RHD Dodge Challenger Hemi

 

But the big one for me is GM's mismanagement of SAAB. I think Saab (sod capitalising it) should have been a premium European brand to expand the Saturn marque; with spaceframe and plastic panels, but Swedish styling, engines and safety, moves towards hybrid. The Fiero and Solstice could have become new Sonnet variants, and the people-carrier boom could have been filled with the U-body Pontiac TransSport, with Saab engines and tuned for European roads.

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or a Mk1 V8 Capri

They did but only in S Africa , called a Piranha IIRC

From the web 

 It was powered by an up-rated Ford Mustang 5 litre V8 (Windsor Small Block Ford) engine. Power was fed through a four speed close ratio Mustang 'top loader' gearbox to a custom limited slip rear axle derived from the Australian Ford Falcon XW rear end. Automatic transmission was an option where the Ford C4 automatic was used.

 

http://www.perana.org/capriv8.asp

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Mazda MX5 with a rotary engine

Yes! But the E-shaft means the gearbox sits too high in the frame (or the engine sits too low). An RX8 roadster would have been awesome, and the body shape (sans rear doors and bubble window) would really have suited that treatment.

 

I forgot the other car I wanted to exist - a Mercedes S201.

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Rover 45 Touring - Rover made prototypes - Civic Aerodeck with 45 front panels, Honda said no. 

3 door version of the 5 door Honda Civic/Rover 45. Would make a good coupe, especially in VTi form.

Factory XR4x4 versions of the Sierra estate and P100.

Audi 80 S2 saloon.

UK model Sunny/Pulsar GTI-R.

E28 5 series Touring - coachbuilts exist...

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