Corsa B welder and welding advice

[AndrewD]

Hello, this is a subject I touched on in my intro posts. I have a Corsa B that requires welding where the rear springs meet the underneath of the car. While I realise it is the least favorable method of welding for car repair, I would like advice on using a stick welder for the job.

 

My reasons for doing so are 1) I have access to one, all be it untested. 2) If it does not work, it is cheap to replace. 3) The consumables are cheap. 4) They work fine outside, I have no garage. 5) You can get rods for various metals, so it has scope to play around as well.

 

Has anyone tried to do this type of work with one? And can it be done?

 

The picture is of the current issue that needs fixing, but if I can weld, who knows where I will look to go next.

[lisbon_road]

Suggest you mess about with some bits of sheet about the right thickness and see how you get on.  

 

Quite involved to fix that, drop back of rear beam, get springs out and so on.  And (ideally) take petrol tank out as so close, especially with stick welding.  But plenty of Astras Corsas and Cavs have been welded there before.

 

Good luck.

[dave21478]

I would consider myself to be a reasonably competent welder, but stick welding rusty metal while upside-down? Nope - no way.

[JohnK]

It's a Corsa - just tip it on it's roof to weld and then fold it back again.

[twosmoke300]

Stick welder is pretty useless on rusty old car steel tbh . It's frustrating enough with a mig . I'm sure someone will come on now to say they restored a rotton Citroen ax ( thin steel) using an oxford 4 million amp welder with rods as thick as your wrist but in reality it ain't gonna happen .

[sierraman]

If I was starting out practicing I wouldn't be doing it in something difficult to access such as this. What's the rest of the chassis like? If its going same way I'd bin it.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I have never got anywhere near a satisfactory result trying to arc-weld old car bodywork. HTH

[AndrewD]

If I was starting out practicing I wouldn't be doing it in something difficult to access such as this. What's the rest of the chassis like? If its going same way I'd bin it.

This job needs doing both sides, other than that it is ok. I was going to practice on other things first, then move on to the car. Has been a good car for many years, and even though it has now been replaced with a Clio as main dealer quoted £500 for both side (more than it is worth), it is otherwise a good car and neither me or my wife (the owner) really want to part with it.

 

I also want to learn to do such things as I would at some point like something older which does perhaps need some work. this would be my intro to restoration instead of just servicing a car.

 

What about other options like MIG and gasless MIG?

 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk

[derskine]

I wouldn't have any luck using stick on this either, mig is the best way.

[AndrewD]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Combination-Smooth-Welder-Accessory-Wheels/dp/B00CLPOTV8

 

Any advice or thoughts on something like the above? I would look at an auto darken mask as well.

 

Thank you all for your help so far.

[brickwall]

That is the very thing I started off on. Not bad for the money, but the quality is not brilliant but it saved me hundreds and hundreds in welding costs. The Rangie would've probably been scrapped if it wasn't for the wee welder. Throw away the mask that comes with it as it's utterly pointless and get half decent thing.

 

 

See if there's a Hobbyweld GAs stockist near yourself as it's ideal for gas and stuff.

 

 

http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/

[AndrewD]

 

See if there's a Hobbyweld GAs stockist near yourself as it's ideal for gas and stuff.

 

 

  

 

15 miles as the crow flies, so not far, thank you.

 

 

Quite involved to fix that, drop back of rear beam, get springs out and so on.  And (ideally) take petrol tank out as so close, especially with stick welding.  But plenty of Astras Corsas and Cavs have been welded there before.

 

Good luck.

Thank you, the car is off the road and has been replaced so it does not have to on the road again for Monday as it were. I have done Hand brake cables, wheel bearings, cam / rocker cover gasket and various other things that have taken the car out of action for less than a day, but for personal intrest want the chance to do something more indepth, learn something and take the chance to give a car a far better going over than I ever thought I would. I do really enjoy working on them and would love something a bit older to fix up in the future.

[jakebullet]

Get a mig & a sheet of steel. Don't go anywhere near the car until you've got dead brilliant at joining new steel together on a bench, 'cos trying to weld that upside down without experience is going to be a world of pain.

 

When you do the car remember you can't weld to rust, so cut back to clean steel. Also on the pain front, wear ear plugs when upside down, nothing quite as fun as hot slag in your lug hole.

[AndrewD]

Well, 3 months have past and at last 1) I have made my mind up as to what welder to get 2) Had the long awaited letter for the machine mart VAT free day and 3) purchased a welder. I was in too much of a hurry to play with it to even think about sorting some good steel, so I went with what was to hand (cat food tins). .9mm flux core (I have no gas yet as i thought I would play with what it came with), blew some holes, but I stuck them together. Next I will try something a bit more sensible, but for my first ever shot at welding, I am happy.

[Des]

You need to practice on thinner metal than a Vauxhall or you'll not learn.

[fordperv]

^ thinner metal than a vauxhall would that be tin foil?

[Noel Tidybeard]

^ thinner metal than a vauxhall would that be tin foil?

nah thinner than that

[danthecapriman]

Best thing to do is go down to your local motor factors (not Halfords!) and get a sheet of steel off them. It's not expensive.

Then just cut some bits off and start practicing with that. It takes a bit of setting up the welder and hours of practice but it will come.

[richardthestag]

gas doesnt arf make a difference to quality of the weld.

 

Cut out as much of the rust as you dare, there may be more than you originally thought. use flappy discs

 

 

on an angle grinder to clean back to bare metal

 

make the template using cereal box card

 

paint the whole lot with weld thru primer

 

Practice the right way up on scraps. clamp two bits of steel together and tag weld them. I rest the edge of the shroud on the work piece and at a 45degree angle so i can see what is going on. adjust wire speed until i get a nice buzz. if the shroud is being pushed away the wire speed is too high, for a good tag weld i hold the trigger for 4 seconds or so and see a nice heat rainbow in the steel around the weld. anything less aint got the penetration fnarr. crackling is probably not enough gas

 

work at lots of good tags, grind back the snot and fill in the gaps with more tags, seam welding upside down you will just blow holes everywhere if you are not experienced.

 

dont be tight with the gas. I use disposable bottles and bought a regulator so I can see what is going on. disconnect the bottle when not using, sounds stupid but the bottle will empty quick without you realising

 

dont weld in windy or drafty areas, just makes it more difficult.

 

dont worry about pigeon snot, that is what flap discs are for

 

I got a decent mask, self dimming unit cost about £40ish and is luxury compared to the hand held freeby i was using

 

safety boring shit, arc eye hurts, a lot, blobs of weld on your hands is not pleasant, even less pleasant when it lands in your crutch! my mask came with leather apron and gauntlets. have someone watch on the otherside of where you are welding, adhesive anti vibration pads inside the car are quite flammable, disconnect battery to save ecus, alternators etc. sparks off the grinder in your eyes is a hospital job

[AndrewD]

I did spend the extra on gloves and a self dimming welding and grinding mask. The mask is amazing, the included one is still in the box, I am glad I don't have to have one hand holding the stick, must be a nightmare (and at last I have a grinding mask). I am thinking I should get apron and sleeves to cover the rest of me though.

 

Once again, thank you for the tips and advice. Sounds like I was working to far away from the metal for one thing. I will practice as much as time allows, would be good to be able to to achieve this during the longer days of next summer, but of course I will only go near the car when I am able to properly weld, so this could take longer.

[BavarianRetro]

See you made it to mig-welding.co.uk.

 

You'll get loads of excellent advice and constructive criticism on there.

[PhillipM]

Not sure where you are but if you want a bit of a hand getting yourself setup and welding okay with it I'm happy to help, we've got loads of scrap metal in various thicknesses up here to practice on.

[AndrewD]

See you made it to mig-welding.co.uk.

 

You'll get loads of excellent advice and constructive criticism on there.

 

Yes, I figure I will need all the advice I can get !!!

 

 

Not sure where you are but if you want a bit of a hand getting yourself setup and welding okay with it I'm happy to help, we've got loads of scrap metal in various thicknesses up here to practice on.

 

I really wish I could take you up on that offer, someone to show me would be fantastic, and the scrap a real help. But unfortunately I am north Essex, about 200 miles away. thank you for the incredibly kind offer though. 

[andy18s]

Is there not a repair panel you can buy to replace the lot,rather than faffing with little bits?

Failing that,find a scrap 1 with a decent part and have at it with a grinder !

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[AndrewD]

I thought I would add these details to keep the record of the progress on this car alive and complete, even though it is technically of topic, it is definitely part of my journey towards learning welding a car.

 

I have been playing on and off (depending on weather, as I am largely working outside) with the flux core wire. I have welded some bits of computer case together, decided to start writing and drawing with the welder when I got fed up with trying to lay a straight bead, and have even welded some nuts, as you do. Then came a real welding task, repairing a tool chest I was given with a broken draw. Draw removed, draw and runners beaten back in to shape, tab that stops draw falling out located in and dislodged from runner in which it had snapped off, tab reattached.

 

Given how bent the draw and runners where, I doubt it will work fully without them being replaced or a lot of work. Anyway, I can live with a draw that is a little stiff and that does not close the last few millimeters, given it was free and it is the first time I have fixed anything with the welder (and the fact the stiff side is not the one I welded). Next thing I would like to try is gas MIG welding, but the gas / no gas Clarke welders are missing one vital component. The large worm drive clip (non en models only) to secure the bottle to the back of the machine. I am guessing it is a lot like a large jubilee, which I don't have, but I do have two smaller ones, and everyone knows you can undo them and combine them to make a big one...

 

 

Oh, what, not with the welder? You just screw them together? I wish I had of known, that would have saved some time! Not a neat job I know (and admittedly a pointless one), but now that I have gas and 0.6mm wire I can try my hand at more delicate work next time I am out there. I know disposable cylinders are comparatively expensive, but given how much I use it at the moment, and the lack of a weld cart (on the look out for some scrap to build one) to house a larger bottle, the disposable ones make the most sense for now.

 

I should probably also add that the car still starts on the button, and that I have had it up on the jack only once (last weekend). The front discs where a little stuck (though I did only try to push the car, had I of tried to drive it they might have just popped off), but once I got the calipers off and pads out, it was fine, I did nothing but reassemble it.

[overrun]

*Drawer. Argggghhh!

[vulgalour]

Learning by doing is the best option with welding.  Good on you for having a go with fixing stuff, that can only be applauded.

[Bobthebeard]

Some handy tips on gasless MIG welding:

 

1. Remember to always put the mask in front of your face before touching metal.

2. Connect the earth before starting.

3. Always have a bucket of water handy to put out any flames.

4. Don't drink alcohol and weld, at the same time.

5. Leave the mask on until the glowing of the metal stops.

6. Leave the weld to cool, then tap it gently with a small hammer.

7. Wire brush the area that is covered in brown cack. Notice holes that didn't used to be there 5 minutes ago.

8. Drink some alcohol.

9. Decide that gasless MIG is ok for girders, not so ok for cars.

10. Sell gasless/useless MIG welder on eBay at 90% loss.

[Station]

11. Spend 110 minutes unjamming wire from welding machine

12. Spool unravels wire in a big metal knot when you take it out of the machine.

13. Blow a big hole in new repair plate.

14. Fail MOT anyway

[AndrewD]

*Drawer. Argggghhh!

 

This is in no way a dig, in fact I find it funny. I would consider myself quite a competent person and am capable of many things. Over the last 6 years I have gone from knowing nothing about cars to learning enough to take this on. I am a computer technician by trade, but have always struggled with English. Even in this age of spell checkers, knowing which witch is which, whether I am using the correct weather and a multitude of other grammatical errors continue to cause me issues. Now, I woz on a Vauxhall forum, and da level of English woz bad, innit, I hope I can achieve a slightly better level than that, lol. The only way I could have avoided the mistake would have been to check the definition of every word i used in the dictionary before I submitted the post. I only hope others' views on my level of interest, increasing knowledge, and possibly even my ability to add a genuine contribution to this site, if I get an MOT on the car, is not is not compromised because I am attempting to express myself through the means I most struggle with. It is my weak point, I do my best to improve, but at the end of the day I can but laugh at the silly mistakes I still make. Feel free to laugh with me, but please don't laugh at me, no one is perfect. I am not going to change it because I can admit I have imperfections, and because it will make me laugh every time i see it.

 

Some handy tips on gasless MIG welding:

 

1. Remember to always put the mask in front of your face before touching metal.

2. Connect the earth before starting.

3. Always have a bucket of water handy to put out any flames.

4. Don't drink alcohol and weld, at the same time.

5. Leave the mask on until the glowing of the metal stops.

6. Leave the weld to cool, then tap it gently with a small hammer.

7. Wire brush the area that is covered in brown cack. Notice holes that didn't used to be there 5 minutes ago.

8. Drink some alcohol.

9. Decide that gasless MIG is ok for girders, not so ok for cars.

10. Sell gasless/useless MIG welder on eBay at 90% loss.

 

I can quite well imagine, I have had fun with it though. Fortunately as I purchased a dual purpose welder of a respectable brand, I now get to enjoy the benefits of gas MIG, while retaining the ability to do repairs outside, on a windy day by swapping tip, wire and polarity of torch and ground.

 

Learning by doing is the best option with welding. Good on you for having a go with fixing stuff, that can only be applauded.

 

Thank you for your incredibly positive input.