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Merging lanes - who is in the right?


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:-( Arrived back in the UK last night and had a slight coming together with a Merc on the M25...great end to the holiday! Basically the situation was this: Everything went down to just the outside lane, which I was in. Then I spotted him coming upon my inside in the middle lane. I assumed he was going to pull in behind me, so didn't brake (plus Lana was asleep in the back so didn't want to wake her). But then the lane ran out and he went into the side of me!

 

Annoyingly I didn't have the dashcam on, but fortunately the only damage to the LT is a scuffed bumper...Merc had a dented door, scraped wheel arch and damaged bumper. Thing is, when we stopped he tried to claim it was all my fault, saying I should have given way, to allow merging. Thing is, I know deep down that I could have probably avoided the accident by slamming on the brakes, but genuinely didn't believe he would go in front of me.I suppose you could argue that braking may have potentially been more dangerous by increasing the chance of being rear ended, but I didn't consciously think of that at the time.

 

He was demanding my insurance details, so I gave him the company but he drove off before giving me any information. I'm going to let them know myself, but suspect it's one of those things that's difficult to prove - he could well claim that I swerved into him. Annoyingly it was a NOS bumper I bought only a couple of years ago, but at least the damage is minimal.

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Mobile phone camera? 

 

I was always taught to give way to the right, I understand in some countries like France that is a movable feast and it can change in some areas.

 

Was he coming up the inside or outside, if the inside then I would say he is merging with you and he is in the wrong, you wouldnt hit warp factor 9 on a sliproad and expect the large lorry to give way? No he would just drive right over the top of you.

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In very recent memory I was tailgated and then brake tested in the left hand lane of an nsl dual carriageway while travelling at 70. Don't even know what the protocol for that move is

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youre already in the lane his lane is merging into your he has to watch WTF hes doing

 

like john said reporting him to the feds for doing one - they frown muchly on that

 

ever brake tested an aldi trying that?? :D *evil laugh* four flat spotted expensive tyres for him :D

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I keep meaning to get a decent but inexpensive dash cam for things like this. The standard of driving I see on my morning/evening commutes sometimes is appalling.

While I drive pretty defensively and do my best to keep myself out of trouble, I feel like its just a matter of time until I get myself caught up in a non fault claim that ends up going 50/50.

Unfortunately I am a habitually lazy sod, and it will probably take a non fault claim, in order for me to get my arse into gear and buy a cam, after which point I will never need it again.

 

I know yours would probably not have caught the impact itself, but would have shown enough to demonstrate that you didn't change course, and would have likely caught the reg # of the Merc.

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I had a similar coming together on a slip road joining a dual carriageway. I was in the right hand lane on the slip road to join from the right. Prick in a white van, who was half a van ahead of me in the left lane, decided to MERGE without speeding up or slowing down. I braked when I realised he was driving the fuck over me, but he still caught my near side front corner with his offside from corner. Just scraped paint though. Not worth a claim. It was good laugh mind. He got very sweary and pointy when we stopped to discuss. Said I was Pedantic when I pointed he drove into me. I was going straight. He merged into me.

 

WHAT DID YOU WANT ME TO FUCKING DO MATE?! DRIVE THE VAN INTO THE FUCKING FIELD?

 

Ideally. Yes. Try and end up with it upside down and on fire.

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....but it kind of sounds like he was trying to "undertake" you = nob.

 

Correct, on both counts! He was coming up my inside (and to make matters worse, not indicating!) The annoying thing is with hindsight I might have been able to prevent it by braking, so I can't say hand on heart it's 100% not my fault :-( I think he either misjudged the gap (being charitable) or was banking on me braking. I think I did brake once I realised he was going for it, but TBH I can't be certain.

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I don't think you can say the accident is your fault.

 

Could you have done something to avoid it? It sounds like you think you possibly could have. However, in slamming on your brakes, were you certain there was no-one right up your trumpet who would have rear ended you etc? Probably not.

However, the fact that you would have had to take any action, is the result of Mr Mercmong being an impatient twat - so the accident is not your fault at all by the sounds of it.

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I learned the rules of the road in boats before I could long before i could drive.  On the water one of the guiding principals of navigation is to avoid collision at all costs. I've always tried to keep it in mind on the road too as it seemed like good advice.

 

In that scenario I would expect the converging lanes to merge in turn as per highway code. but I'd probably have braked if I thought there was a chance the merc was coming across anyway.

 

Not that it helps but the merc driver sounds like a total tool. Hope it all gets sorted out quickly.

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Unfortunatly that is typical M25 standard of driving. He was in the wrong and probably knew it but as you didn't leap out shouting and calling him every name under the sun he spotted a weakness and went for it. First rule in an accident is it was never your fault regardless, I would report him though as he didn't supply any details before leaving the scene. There are cameras all over the place on the M25 so I expect it will be on film somewhere if you act fast enough. Not that the old bill will bother doing anything about it.

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As said previously give his plate to the feds and (get a crime number) then your insurance stressing on both occasions that the other vehicle was pushing into your lane with no care or consideration for you, got verbally abusive after his car hit your car then farked off without leaving any insurance details.

 

Iirc if you are merging with a running lane then it is down to you to match your speed with the traffic in that lane and join in a safe manner

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It's entirely his fault.

 

The bloke sounds like a tool.

 

Did you get his registration number? Call the police & report him for leaving the scene of the accident without giving you his details.

 

As it is, it sounds like he's in the wrong as he was the one changing lanes. AND he approached from your rear. No witnesses, I assume?

^This.

 

Mobile phone camera? 

 

he is merging with you and he is in the wrong, you wouldnt hit warp factor 9 on a sliproad and expect the large lorry to give way? No he would just drive right over the top of you.

^Ha, wanna bet?  In my HGV experience, car drivers always assume the truck will just somehow float away.  Er, no, bollocks.  My ERF weighed 12 tonnes unladen, your 318 weighed what, a tonne?  I win.

 

I don't think you can say the accident is your fault.

 

Could you have done something to avoid it? It sounds like you think you possibly could have. However, in slamming on your brakes, were you certain there was no-one right up your trumpet who would have rear ended you etc? Probably not.

However, the fact that you would have had to take any action, is the result of Mr Mercmong being an impatient twat - so the accident is not your fault at all by the sounds of it.

^This.

 

Report him to the rozzers.  Yes, it'll be inconvenient, yes they will want to see all your paperwork, but yes, do it ASAP.  I mean urgently, like now.

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I thought the car joining a motorway had priority.  Therefore it's wrong to not make way for joining traffic.

 

 

Oh gawd. This entirely incorrect thought is exactly why there's so much aggro. Know the rules. Just because people DO move over to let you onto a motorway does not mean they are obliged to. 

 

As for Mat - the Merc driver was ENTIRELY in the wrong. You have every right to maintain your speed in your lane without having to worry about idiots driving into you.

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M25 reduced down to just the outside lane?  All of the above plus presumably he had about a mile of warning signs before being faced with a coned off lane.

 

Dashcam recommendation - Mobius standard lens. About £55. Mine has worked flawlessly for 18 months now and I catch things every other day.  Google Techmoan for Youtube vids on dashcams in general.

 

Might upload the latest amusing footage here in a min:   

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Did he give you any details at all? It's definitely an offence to leave the scene of an accident without giving at least contact details.

 

I have one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foxnovo%C2%AE-2-0-inch-Waterproof-Digital-Camcorder/dp/B00GZHIUPY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436287987&sr=8-1&keywords=foxnovo+action+camerawhich can also be used as a knock-off Go-Pro. In dashcam mode it records about three hours worth of five minute clips and then starts overwriting from the oldest clip. It seems to work surprisingly well.

 

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That sounds confusing, I am trying to visualise...

 

....but it kind of sounds like he was trying to "undertake" you = nob.

 

If you were in front and he has come up the inside to merge in then I don't see how it can be argued as your fault.

 

 

/\

This.

 

He's blatantly tried to undertake you and your insurance will I'm sure side with you.

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On the water one of the guiding principals of navigation is to avoid collision at all costs.

 

That's my mantra too, so I'm annoyed that my thought processes at the time were "WTF is he playing at? Surely he's not going to try and cut in front...oh shit, yes he is!", and not "WTF is he playing at? I'd better brake just in case he tries to cut in front!", which is the way I normally think. I.e that's the worst that could happen, and act accordingly.

 

Unfortunatly that is typical M25 standard of driving. He was in the wrong and probably knew it but as you didn't leap out shouting and calling him every name under the sun he spotted a weakness and went for it.

 

That could be it, I just got out and was expecting an apology and maybe a handshake, which in my mind would have been fine. Now I've felt compelled to inform the insurance company, who say I can claim for the damage. Half tempted to, as although the van is hardly tidy, I did spend over £100 on a new bumper and now it's no longer as new.

 

were there any arrows indicating the merge?

 

No, just (presumably overnight) roadworks. There were metal signs and illuminated overhead signs, plus the line of flashing cones though!

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When I wore a younger man's clothes, was full of piss and vinegar and drove company cars with company insurance, a rep in a 2.0 GLX Sapphire did a similar thing to me whilst I was piloting a Volvo 740 GLE saloon.

I may have hit the accelerator briefly ,instead of the brake by mistake, that's what I told the Police and the insurance company.....

The look on his face as he went backwards through the cones and signs- priceless.

Damaged the reflective tape on the bumper of the Volvo, I had to peel it all off, wonder what happened to G170 UTM ? Probably retired to The Glens.

Anyway, even after these stupid shenanigans it was still deemed to be SierraBoy at fault.

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