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Technology. when is enough?


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My consideration of potential cars to own stops at mid noughties production, preferably 80/90's designs, in most cases these cars do everything you could ever want, yet remain simple enough to be serviced if not fixed by a competent workshops, if beyond the good DIY'er, and usually fairly corrosion resistant if you do a bit of sensible prevention work.

 

There are several things i will never have on a car, electric parking brake, automated manual nor twin clutch DSG type gearbox, DPF.....i really do not want keyless go but that's not a line in the sand, seriously doubt i'll own a car newer than mid noughties for the rest of my life, if they ban older cars as they probably will in time i'll get the bloody bus, cycle or walk.

 

The trouble with automation is that we end up with what has happened in lorry world, when you make something a chimp could drive you end up with the cheapest chimps driving them...anyone who uses the roads regularly cannot have failed to have noticed a massive deterioration in driving ability courtesy and competence in lorries and it's not age related either, many of these incompetents wouldn't have the strength nor the nous get the old lorries out the gate....Fucks sake they can't keep the things upright on a straight motorway at 55mph max with all the electronics in the world on full alert.

 

In car world we've reached the stage that a massive number of car drivers wouldn't get where they are going on a wet day if the electronic stability controls (especially ABS) failed, as for parking you only have to visit a motorway services where rows of vastly oversized cars such as Audis BMW's Mondeo Insignia will be driven in (couldn't possibly reverse park) and left in a herringbone pattern across each others bays...its painful to watch them, why they buy or get issued with cars far too big for them to cope with beggars question.

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It's true about making it all too easy. Youngest MissN is learning to drive at the moment. One lesson a week with the same instructor that managed to get the other three through their tests and at weekends Mrs N or me take her out in the Arosa.

Almost every junction she stalls in the Arosa, she swears it never happens in instructors car - a 64 plate 118d.

I spoke to Abdul (the instructor) and he wasn't surprised,reckons it's almost impossible to stall the BMW ,although apparently he has to turn off the Start-Stop bollocks for tests.

Couple this with parking sensors,abs,pas etc there's a generation of drivers that would shit themselves if plonked into something vintage like a Metro or 205 after they pass their test.

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My Puke has a button on the door and boot that lets me lock and unlock it as long as the keys are on my person. It's great when you're trying to load shopping/a rover v8 inlent manifold into the car and the keys are in your pocket.

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To pick up on NorfolkNWeigh's point, my niece is currently learning to drive and can't drive her little 1.3 Ka for shit. She keeps stalling it.

 

This is because her instructors DS3 is diesel and he hasn't taught her to put gas on when she disengages the clutch. What the absolute fuck?! But of course modern diesels don't need gas to move.

 

I also gave her instructor a right ear bashing a week or so ago. I was coming down a slip road in the truck to get into a dual carriageway, there was NOTHING in the outside lane, but dickhead teaching a learner stuck in the inside lane. I had to stop a 5tonne truck on the slip road because of this and then accelerate from a standing start once he went past.

 

When I challenged him, apparently 'Left is best until you pass your test', so basically you don't overtake. I resorted saying that when I passed my test (9 years ago), you failed if you impeded the progress of another road user ...

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I'd take the opposite view - technology encourages people to be mongs. For example, people thes dayz kant fukin spel. Spell checkers & autocorrect make people lazy.

 

The current Fiesta is available with front and rear parking sensors, and a camera! If you can't park a Fiesta without electronic help, you shouldn't be driving.

 

I agree. Look what happens when it gets foggy. Lots of twats driving around with NO LIGHTS AT ALL because the decision-making has been removed for them by automatic headlamps. Which seem not to be able to see fog. 

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I like technology!

 

When it works....

 

My car has loads and being a Honda, it does work (now touches wood, whistles and says a silent prayer) and most of it, is useful. But, it's needed because the design of modern cars is shit. I cannot see out of the back to reverse park. It is bloody impossible even though it's got a separate window under the rear window to help, just can't see a thing and the side windows are neither use nor ornament. All due to the floor being high 'cos there's a shit ton of batteries under it. Without parking sensors/auto park, I'd have to just abandon it in the middle of the road!

 

I can't have the auto lock function enabled on my car as I park too close to where I keep my keys and the car never locks - disabled by the dealer with the big computer.

 

Can never get used to the fact the car is soooooo slow in reverse - power reduced in reverse for 'safety' what a load of bollox! You seem to need to press the throttle through the floor to get it to reverse up a hill. Seriously, it couldn't pull a boyscout off his sister!

 

The brakes need 'getting used to' as it's all done on regenerative braking unless you push the peddle hard, but, it cuts out at 7mph so it feels like the car suddenly accelerates! It doesn't obviously, you just lose braking effect. I got used to it really quickly (first hour) but when I pulled up in front of the showroom after the test-drive and nearly went through the plate glass window, it gave me a... start! It uses the brakes so little, all the discs are just solid rust and you have to be consciously hard on the brakes for a while to clean them up.

 

Auto lights/wipers. Really not convinced by them at all. What was wrong with turning a knob or flicking a stalk? It's also easy to confuse them: when I was driving in the early hours in January, the lights were on/off on/off a dozen times on one journey as it was quite light out, but, it was under trees.... and as for the wipers, well it was much better once I found the switch that changes the sensitivity!

 

Overall, I 'like' the tech and could use more ('use' in a nerdy sort of way!). When my son came down in a new top of the range Range Rover I was amazed at the tech it had, bloody cameras everywhere so you could 'see' at junctions and 4 TVs including the clever one in the dash that is one thing for the passenger and a totally separate thing for the driver. Sitting slap bang in the middle in the rear it was fun moving an inch either way and watching it change!

 

Yes, cars will be obsolete in ten years. There will be few old cars still on the road after that age in a few years time. I find that VERY sad.

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I purchased my 26 year old Mercedes as I needed an auto to get me over using a clutch with my dodgy knee's. It has electric windows, central locking, electric sunroof, air con, power steering, but does have fuel injection. No ABS, traction control, airbags or parking sensors (it has massive windows which help in parking it easily)

 

My VW van has no sunroof or air con, but does have an extremely expensive ECU to control the ABS and traction control. I know it is extremely expensive as I have had to replace it. It blew because, apparently, the VW T5 should not be jump started.

 

As for parking sensors, my T5 has £39.00 sensors in the rear bumper, and a £15.00 reversing camera hooked up to my head unit. Both work superbly in conjunction with my wing mirrors, as the van has solid back doors, All well and good, but it hasn't stopped others reversing in to mine. Bastards.

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what saucy said. Folk are cocooned in an electronic bubble and seem to belive that the car will keep them safe regardless. This mentality starts at the driving school and build from there.

 

All driving schools should have mid-sixties Minors on crossplies with badly adjusted drum brakes. Upon passing your test, you would be allowed to upgrade to a Mk 3 Cortina 1300 for six months. learn your skills the old-skool way

 

Yes; I've always thought that compulsory driving of 2CVs, to learn road-craft and dynamic vehicle management, should take place for 2 years after passing test.

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My consideration of potential cars to own stops at mid noughties production, preferably 80/90's designs, in most cases these cars do everything you could ever want, yet remain simple enough to be serviced if not fixed by a competent workshops, if beyond the good DIY'er, and usually fairly corrosion resistant if you do a bit of sensible prevention work.

 

There are several things i will never have on a car, electric parking brake, automated manual nor twin clutch DSG type gearbox, DPF.....i really do not want keyless go but that's not a line in the sand, seriously doubt i'll own a car newer than mid noughties for the rest of my life, if they ban older cars as they probably will in time i'll get the bloody bus, cycle or walk.

 

The trouble with automation is that we end up with what has happened in lorry world, when you make something a chimp could drive you end up with the cheapest chimps driving them...anyone who uses the roads regularly cannot have failed to have noticed a massive deterioration in driving ability courtesy and competence in lorries and it's not age related either, many of these incompetents wouldn't have the strength nor the nous get the old lorries out the gate....Fucks sake they can't keep the things upright on a straight motorway at 55mph max with all the electronics in the world on full alert.

 

In car world we've reached the stage that a massive number of car drivers wouldn't get where they are going on a wet day if the electronic stability controls (especially ABS) failed, as for parking you only have to visit a motorway services where rows of vastly oversized cars such as Audis BMW's Mondeo Insignia will be driven in (couldn't possibly reverse park) and left in a herringbone pattern across each others bays...its painful to watch them, why they buy or get issued with cars far too big for them to cope with beggars question.

 

Paragraph 3, agreed.

 

Something's happened lately with LGV / HGV driving; a tiny minority are not always the competent professionals to be expected.

 

Odd.

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Paragraph 3, agreed.

 

Something's happened lately with LGV / HGV driving; a tiny minority are not always the competent professionals to be expected.

 

Odd.

 

Yes, it is a minority but unfortunately a growing one, and as each new model of lorry is released its ever more bloody automated.

 

We've now got lorries with electric parking brakes that come on automatically, together with taking the thing out of gear and switching the lights off when the thing is turned off,  active cruise which can take over the braking when needed...up to a point it's needed with some of the twats who sit at speed jammed up each others and innocent private motorists arses, but people like that shouldn't be allowed with a bloody mile of a lorry in the first place, lorry driving should require a degree in common sense.

 

Half these idiots wouldn't have gone within a mile of the job when it was graft with crash gearboxes, handballed on/off roped and sheeted loads and the like, as the jobs got easier it's attacted those who are not suitable, chauffers..

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 Hi, I think the ecu,s in cars have so much spare capacity that the car makers start to think what can we put on the car to use it up. I think the fitting of airbags and ABS make the drivers think they are invincible, "I don't need to pay attention to driving because when I crash I won't get hurt"

 

 Colin

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I nearly killed the clutch on my A6 yesterday trying to do a hill start on a car with an electronic parking brake.

 

Utter bollocks...

Had those bastarding things jam on solid unable to get Citroen C4 Picarseoles off the lorry, fortunately there is something that looks suspiciously like an IUD in the toolkit, which if you insert it through a rubber grommet in the NS transmission tunnel, engage drive and wind up fully will snap the cable and you can then carry on...broken parking brake of course but at least you can proceed.

 

As you say what a load of bollocks, never once in all my years did i wish for a switch in place of the normal effin handbrake, another solution for a problem that didn't exist.

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Not really sure if this belongs here but....

The previous Honda Accord (2003, 1997cc basic spec, 190k miles)was still on the original exhaust system when I parted with it last year. The replacement Honda Accord (2007, 2.4 vtec thingy,71k miles) has just had the exhaust pipe snap in the middle just before joint to rear pipes. Currently investigating sleeving and welding as a new bit is ££££s. Not looking too hopeful for long term repair as lots of crusty bits/flanges etc. Much more complex than the old car, thus much more to rust/fail/fall off.

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Betrayed my shitesh roots last week by buying a 2010 320d (I know, I know...)

 

Was reading the handbook the other day, and apparently if it breaks down and you have an active "BMWAssist" subscription, the car automatically uploads the telematics log to BMW breakdown and calls them through the car's phone system.

 

Big brother is watching, it would seem.

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I'm no lover of tech in cars, but at least with most stuff you can see why at least someone would want it. Electronic handbrakes though... an answer to a question no one asked and a problem that just didn't need solving. Lazy people don't use the handbrake anyway, they just sit with their foot on the brake (except when parking of course), I bet they would still do it even if the car operated the handbrake for them.

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Electronic* voltage regulators and electronic* ignition / injection are just about as complex as it is worth getting.

It's a car not an activity centre/games arcade/weapons system.

 

*Electronic, not computerised!

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Self parking cars will just encourage people to be lazy and not improve their driving, quite the reverse.

 

As far as actual road safety goes though, they can just keep on inventing things that make vehicles safer for everyone, I won't complain about that.

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technology pah, real drivers dont need technology, my saph has slightly too much technology with the electronic pumped abs brake system, it is good and puts much newer stuff to shame but i could happily live without it as pedal feel is lost, i am a fan of proper steering which isnt power assisted, brakes which need effort and give feel, to me this is Partly what gives cars character.

 

too many people now rely on these advances in technology as they have become lazy which is a shame as driving skill are lost

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As someone else has said, it's just a further step on the road to driverless cars. I know several people who don't like driving but need to and would be very happy with driverless vehicles. As the roads get busier and more hectic, which only going to get worse, people actively wanting to opt out of driving will increase.

 

As it is I hate driving around my local town (Cheltenham) at certain times of day, and will avoid doing so. For some people they feel the same about all driving.

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Yes, it is a minority but unfortunately a growing one, and as each new model of lorry is released its ever more bloody automated.

 

We've now got lorries with electric parking brakes that come on automatically, together with taking the thing out of gear and switching the lights off when the thing is turned off, active cruise which can take over the braking when needed...up to a point it's needed with some of the twats who sit at speed jammed up each others and innocent private motorists arses, but people like that shouldn't be allowed with a bloody mile of a lorry in the first place, lorry driving should require a degree in common sense.

 

Half these idiots wouldn't have gone within a mile of the job when it was graft with crash gearboxes, handballed on/off roped and sheeted loads and the like, as the jobs got easier it's attacted those who are not suitable, chauffers..

Is that not more clearly a case of adaption to circumstance though? Traffic density and speed is higher than it was in the past, and there'd be no point in setting out at a higher weight than the past in something that wasn't up to the job.

 

Seriously considering doing my truck licences next year when I'm legally able to. Because it'll be a way of earning in future.

Which will, fwiw, likely be in a selection of ropey old mingers.

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Paragraph 3, agreed.

 

Something's happened lately with LGV / HGV driving; a tiny minority are not always the competent professionals to be expected.

 

Odd.

Not odd at all, it's simple logic.  You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.  Who is the poorest-paid person in any business that relies on road transport?  Exactly, then you get all this hand-wringing over the ongoing world shortage of drivers.  There's no shortage of people who think they can drive for a living, but they soon find out they can't, and leave/get fired/get killed, leaving those of us who can do it, to take the shit hours, shit pay, automatic assumption of guilt and zero respect.

 

 people like that shouldn't be allowed with a bloody mile of a lorry in the first place, lorry driving should require a degree in common sense.

 

Half these idiots wouldn't have gone within a mile of the job when it was graft with crash gearboxes, handballed on/off roped and sheeted loads and the like, as the jobs got easier it's attacted those who are not suitable, chauffers..

Degree in what?  Sorry my friend, that's a complete oxymoron.  Otherwise, you're absolutely right.

 

Seriously considering doing my truck licences next year when I'm legally able to. Because it'll be a way of earning in future.

Which will, fwiw, likely be in a selection of ropey old mingers.

Best of luck with that.  Don't be afraid to ask for help from the old guys.  Real drivers will always give it.

 

Oh and technology?  Gone WAAAAAYYYYY too far now.  My Transit has just about enough, I reckon, and the Vectra probably too much.  Although the Transit is diesel, FWD and has a SIX-speed manual box.  WTF?

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Is that not more clearly a case of adaption to circumstance though? Traffic density and speed is higher than it was in the past, and there'd be no point in setting out at a higher weight than the past in something that wasn't up to the job.

 

Seriously considering doing my truck licences next year when I'm legally able to. Because it'll be a way of earning in future.

Which will, fwiw, likely be in a selection of ropey old mingers.

 

Hmm dunno about speeds being higher, my normal road speed used to a constant 70mph in the early 80's in an artic, and one of them made in 1986 would cruise at 95mph all night long if you wanted to,  where many lorries of the day would run out of steam about 80 that bastard was just getting into its stride.

 

good luck with the lorry licences, i bet most old school drivers did the same as me and come up via vans and 7.5 tonners before they took HGV's, that's still as valid a way into lorry world as ever, you get a feel for larger vehicles and reduced grip levels in the wet, but more importantly you find out if the job and lifestyle is for you before spending your hard earned...there's much bullshit talked by the trainers,  after all its in their interests to trouser your money and teach you (to pass the test not necessarily to drive a lorry), the realities of the job unless you specialise or get a lucky break as i did mid 80's are not what it's cracked up to be...even the fanny doesn't dress to please any more so knicker and stocking top spotting are no longer the drivers perk they once were.

 

 

Eddy, maybe i should have said a degree OF common sense, which seems to be missing too often..

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I went to see this the other week.

 

http://nearyou.imeche.org/near-you/UK/event-detail?id=10442

 

All very interesting.

 

I guess I should try to connect with the speaker and get him to join AS ?

 

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=5657069&trk=send_invitation_success_message_name&goback=%2Enpp_geoff*5davis%2F1%2Fa89%2F925

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As someone else has said, it's just a further step on the road to driverless cars. I know several people who don't like driving but need to and would be very happy with driverless vehicles. As the roads get busier and more hectic, which only going to get worse, people actively wanting to opt out of driving will increase.

 

As it is I hate driving around my local town (Cheltenham) at certain times of day, and will avoid doing so. For some people they feel the same about all driving.

 

There is no way that with actually drivers in control, on the same road, that a fully driverless car can be allowed.  The driverless car, will work if all the cars can send signals to each other, and if they are separate, but in the super cities of the world, cars will be excluded apart from a massive fleet of pool cars which you will be able to book, and which will come and find you. They will know where all the other cars are traveling, so will be able to take you the best route.

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