Jump to content

Recommended Posts

oh dear

 

For me the biggest mistake that they made in the 2000s was not doing a 607 estate.

When it first came out 2.2HDI autos were as good as anything else on the market, and I think that the V6 was quite good as well, but they needed a 505 estate replacement and the 607 should have been it.

 

The 207, 307 and 407 were all disasters compared with 206, 306 and 406.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The top gear thing had me in stitches tbh, and it is very true! I have no interest in pug at all tbh anymore, would class an early 206 as new as I'd go.

 

What was wrong with jeremy convertible to make it spark like that. (I normally assume all that stuff is rigged but TBH modern French electrics etc...)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 308 is one of the ugliest mainstream cars of the last 20 years, whereas the 306 was perfectly proprtioned

 

I'm thinking you mean the pre.facelift 308, the current one looks fairly normal after all the blobfish grills of the past. About which - designer, field, baseball bat.

 

New 308

Peugeot%20308%20(2).jpg

 

Old 308

Peugeot%20308%20Facelift%20(3).jpg

 

Man with mouth full of snooker balls.

pool-ball-mouth1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically when it comes to Peugeots...

 

If it's something 04 it will be solid and dependable

If it's something 05 (or a 309) it will be a bit flimsy but brilliant to drive and either fast or very cheap to run.

If it's something 06 then it's probably not so good to drive but stylish and comfy.

If it ends in 07 then it will be much uglier than its predecessor with electrics that Alfa would be ashamed of.

08s haven't made it into our territory yet and probably won't survive long enough to.

Link to post
Share on other sites

607s not such a bad looking car, although the grille gives a hint of the insanity to come.

 

406 + XUD is a good combination. They don't seem to screw up electronically any more than any other cars of the time. Sometimes I suspect PSA are being dragged down because they're French and so is Renault.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I admire TG for daring stick their noses out so far. Having pissed off whole countries, they've at last realised it's more fun to start acting like CAR magazine did with Volvo back in the early/mid-80s and royally fuck-off a car manufacturer making less than competitive products. It was a carefully put-together piece and correct in neartly every respect.

 

Question is, why did the Lion lose the plot at the end of the 90s? The 405 was awesome, the 406 a really good car. Medium-sized cars were as good and the 205 is a legend. Were they terminally distracted from trying to make sure side-kick Citroen didn't upstage them even when forced to use the same parts and sell their cars cheaper (they managed that reasonably effectively) or has it been the drip-drip of the EU and its constant bribes and obfuscation?

 

Farmers are well paid by the EU, loads of them are in France and plenty buy Peugeot with the handouts. In fact, there's a worryingly high percentage of farmers around here using their benefits cheques to buy more Peugoet. Does constant subsidy affect your judgement?

 

The one person I know who's in a position to know about these things is my MoT man. He loves Peugeots, he says, because they're always needing parts, and he doesn't give a toss that they're nastier to work on than other cars because he's paid for every hour he spends repairing them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that the exact point in time when they lost the plot was when they replaced the 306 with the 307.

The 306 was a fairly tough, good handling car and with the HDI it had one of the best engines.  The GTI6 was also highly regarded.

The 307 was an unreliable over complicated boat.

 

In every case where the new model was inferior it was largely down to

a: degraded handling

b: a dramatic increase in electrical complexity

 

The good Peugeots had discrete ECUs to control different bits of the car.

The bad ones had multiplexed wiring and ECUs that talk to each other before agreeing to doing anything.

 

If they can sort the handling and get the electronics reliable maybe they can be good again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I quite enjoyed the TG feature although it was a bit over done as usual, I thought the history of Peugeot was interesting and you can't deny that they had a good point about the new cars having lost their way.

 

How good did that 505 GTi look though, Seeing that they aren't expensive yet I'd be quite tempted by one of those.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that the exact point in time when they lost the plot was when they replaced the 306 with the 307.

The 306 was a fairly tough, good handling car and with the HDI it had one of the best engines.  The GTI6 was also highly regarded.

The 307 was an unreliable over complicated boat.

 

Spot on. 2002 was the start of the end for the decent built cars although the 206 came out in 1998 and i always thought that was pretty wank.

 

I'd say Peugeots only saving grace was the fantastic diesel engines and their prices.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The top gear thing had me in stitches tbh, and it is very true! I have no interest in pug at all tbh anymore, would class an early 206 as new as I'd go.

 

What was wrong with jeremy convertible to make it spark like that. (I normally assume all that stuff is rigged but TBH modern French electrics etc...)

307s love to melt the heater fan wiring loom so was prob that that was on fire

Link to post
Share on other sites

We've got a 207 SW so I feel compelled to reply to this thread. It's not that it's a bad car, because it's not, and when we compared it next to a Golf it ticked a lot more boxes and was quite a bit cheaper second hand. The problem is, now we own it, it does everything ever so slightly unsatisfactorily. These ever so slight things are so slight that you'd never even notice them the first few times, but they start to creep up and it flips me into a rage every time I drive it.

 

Here is a list of a few of them:

-Steering wheel is too high and too far away. Adjusted as low and as close as it will go is still not enough.

-When steering wheel is adjusted as low and as close as it will go it obscures all the dash lights and the speedo between 25mph and 120mph. This is not useful.

-Seat adjustment is on a ratchet with a lever, not on a roller, so it's slightly too upright or slightly too laid back. No in between.

-Radio controls are complicated as fuck, like absolutely cannot work them out complicated and, as a scientist, I'd consider myself quite clever. It has iPod and other USB connectivity but it won't play anything in track order and it's utterly ridiculously complicated to set it to play by album.

-Heater controls. Where to start. Ok, hot/cold control is on two knobs that look like they came out a 1992 Fiat. Digital control so you have to look at the dash to see what you're doing. Fan speed is an up/down push button which you have to push all the way in until it bottoms out otherwise it doesn't operate. Same for the windscreen/car/footwell fan adjustment. Impossible to adjust while driving; in fact, I'd say it's dangerous.

-Brake is an unpredictable on-off switch. It has WAY too much power assistance and it's impossible to pull up smoothly without concentrating HARD on it. It's tiring driving like that. I thought I was going crazy at first, but the braking varies a bit on weather conditions, speed, which gear it's in and engine temperature. I'll come out some mornings and it simply won't have any brakes at the end of the road until it warms up and it'll scare the shit out of you.

-Autobox. Wasn't exactly expecting much out of this because small autos are generally pretty poor but this one takes the biscuit. Revvy VVT engine with a super short first gear doesn't mix and it's jerky and uncontrollable if it's slippery. It's also completely inconsistent in gear changing points. Same bit of road, same conditions; one day it'll change out of second at 28mph, another day it'll change at 20mph and straight out of 3rd into 4th and bog down. It's annoying that most of the time it doesn't change out of 2nd until 28-29mph, so round down it's always hanging in second gear at nearly 3000rpm.

-Throttle delay. I'm guessing it's got a fly-by-wire throttle but the delay can be alarming. Try to slot into a gap in traffic and sometimes it just sits there and does nothing, but you can't change your mind and hit the brake instead because the engine will gun right up as you take your foot off the pedal and won't come off before you've hit the brake.

-Fuel economy is embarrassing. It's a 1.6 and rewards us with an average of 36mpg. It'll do between 22mpg and 27mpg if I use it on my commute and I drive it like an old man.

-External dimensions. It might as well be twice its size because that's what it feels like. It's impossible to park and you can't judge where the corners are. Just pick a big space.

-Auto wipers aren't particularly automatic because you have to turn them on and, as soon as you come to a halt, the car turns them off.

-The car switches the battery power off to the cabin after about 5-10 minutes if it's not running. You can't have the radio on if you're cleaning the car. So I don't clean it.

-Steering is way too twitchy. It's not a nimble car, so it doesn't need steering like that.

 

There are some pro's:

-It was cheap, a proper depreciation monster and you'd be mad to buy one new.

-Interior space is way bigger than a Golf which is about the same size, the seats are further apart and it generally feels quite spacious.

-Comes as an SW wagon which is handy for hauling crap and chucking bikes in, which is what we do a lot of.

 

But it drives me insane and I hate it. If it wasn't her's I'd have got rid of the bloody thing a long time ago. I can't see these ever becoming Autoshite Gold, they'll just wind people up and it'll maybe the be the first piece of cheap chod that genuinely ticks all the Autoshite boxes but is actually too annoying to own.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Define proper.

 

I think that the 306 and 406 are really good cheap cars and still plentiful. They could have bought any of them for under a grand and tried it.

 

If you mean 504 / 505 the problem is that they don't exist.  You can't buy one even if you want one.  If you want a 505 you are about 15 years too late.

 

They are totally right about peugeot losing their way but I would've preferred more screen time appreciating the proper ones and less smashing up the ones nobody cares about

Link to post
Share on other sites

306 XUD or petrol is the newest I would go personally. A turbo diesel 306 is tried and proven as a GREAT car especially in agricultural and steam circles where I have seen many used and abused. 

Had a 1.1 petrol 106 which was OK but not a patch on the several 205s I've had. Would fuckin' love a 204, 304, 404 

A friend has had a couple of 107s from brand new which have been 100% reliable but they aren't "pure" Pug are they?? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Older Peugeots were fun to drive and worked well on enjoyable twisty roads.

 

They had their foibles but a good Peugeot was a laugh. Slightly daft seating position and hair trigger throttle action was part of the old Peugeot experience, along with cold start issues on any Peugeot with a carb.

 

They did indeed lose the plot.

 

I think it was a mad marketing led mission to get everyone with young children to buy Peugeot. Airbags and safety gadgets everywhere, make them dull to drive, make the steering almost Vauxhall shite, make them heavy and slow and make everything bleep until it fries your mind.

 

I quite like the Pug 406. In decent spec, other than the awful seats they're a nice enough car. I'd have a 3.0 Estate quite happily. 407? No. Not interested. I've driven a few and they aren't enjoyable, or even good.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My 405 1.9 GRi was a seriously quick way to get from A-B, so understated and anonymous, yet on one occasion it kept a Sapphire Cosworth honest, admittedly it was on Welsh B roads in the wet at night. But if the Cossie was in front it couldn't shake off the Pug and if the Cossie started of behind it couldn't pass it. I'd like claim it was my superior driving skill, but we swapped cars during the night and it made no difference. Both cars were brand new so it wasn't a case of knackered engine or bald tyres.

Now, fast forward 25 years would a mid-range 508 keep up with even a decent hot hatch let alone whatever the modern Cosworth equivalent is ,M3?

This was why people loved Peugeots they were always good at everyday things, yet when you pushed a bit harder, they lit up.

Of course if the 405 had less than a quarter of a tank it cut out when cornering fast,which just adde to the fun,lift off oversteer is for winners.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, fast forward 25 years would a mid-range 508 keep up with even a decent hot hatch let alone whatever the modern Cosworth equivalent is ,M3?

This was why people loved Peugeots they were always good at everyday things, yet when you pushed a bit harder, they lit up.

Of course if the 405 had less than a quarter of a tank it cut out when cornering fast,which just adde to the fun,lift off oversteer is for winners.

 

The 207 has got the lift-off oversteer thing, which I was surprised/pleased to find out when it did it for the first time. What should have been a look of complete surprise, panic and some bum clenching was in fact a smug grin and a calm turn of the steering wheel.

 

It'll outrun most of the VAG tdi's but you need to to give it loads of revs to do it, which doesn't mix well with a dire autobox. The manual might be better but I'll be fucked if I'll bother to find out. I don't actually care in the slightest. If you're genuinely trying to race diesel VAGs in a standard Peugeot 207 then you ought to take a look at your aims in life.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Similar Content

    • By Lord Sterling
      I've been asked why I havent done a thread for my Rover Sterling, I put up a load of pics and talk about it now again, so I guess its probably time to stick it in its own thread...
      How it started
      For years and years I'd always wanted a mk1 Rover 800 Sterling, reason being that way back in 1991, MUTHA and FATHA_Sterling went out and bought one, it was a 1987 D-reg 825 Sterling reg: D233 KYG and finished in Shantung Gold. It had been bought second-hand from a company called "Snowmec" or something in Telford. They were getting rid of some company cars and ole_Dad_Sterling chose the Rover Sterling, and I'm glad he did. The Rover made a huge impression on me that resonates with me until this day. As a kid then, it was such an amazing car, the leather seats, the electrics, I'd never been in anything so luxurious, so smooth, so fast, it was amazing, I felt like a prince. It also made its impression on Fatha_Sterling, going from a basic Mk3 Fiesta (which was meant for Ma_Sterling) to a Sterling must have been like going from an Intercity train straight into a first-class Concorde flight.
      Up until then the Sterling_Parents had pretty much run 'bread 'n' butter' cars like Cavaliers and Sierras, all with the similar basic specs like cloth seats and keep-fit windows. Ole_Fatha's Rover Sterling was just out of this world. From then on I'd always promised myself a Mk1 Rover Sterling, even through school when all the other lads wanted bodykitted up MAX_POWA Cozzies and Dirt Bikes, the Rover Sterling was always in the back of my mind..........
      The first foray
      So, fast-forwarding onto somewhere in 2008, I'd already owned an mk1 827Si which I quickly realised was the lowest spec of the bigger engined 800s, and unfortunately had crashed it on the way to a job interview, I'd was borrowed mk2 827 Sterling auto which I absolutely fell in love with, so much so that when I provisionally agreed to buy the mk1 Sterling, I also asked if I could buy the mk2 Sterling too, a deal was made, hands were shook and eventually money and documents were exchanged.
      The mk1 needed a new auto box and general recomissioning work. As I was using the mk2 I had no need for the mk1, but I bought it on principle that I'd always wanted a mk1 Sterling and nothing else was available at the time when I actually had money. After I'd bought the mk1 it had been standing at my mates house for while, always kept clean but it needed moving, it was a little churlish of me to leave it there so eventually I rented a lock-up garage from Telford council as they were looking to rent thier garages to anyone who wanted one.
      One day sometime in October 2008 a chap I knew helped me to recover the car, we made our way down from Telford to Worcester with a bouncy A-frame, loaded it up on an A-frame and made our way back up to Telford:

      Once we got there it had just started to seriously chuck it down, we wheeled the thing into the garage and found that the bloody door wouldn't shut, so it was off with the rear bumper, I shut the garage door and apart from a few times when I visted to store stuff in it, it never moved and I did nothing with it. It became a shed of storage, the boot was choc-full of car related crap, including a brand-new pair of front and rear lights, plus other stuff that I can't think of at this moment.
      Awakening the beast
      Eventually, due to the increasing cost of storing the car, no job and basic lack of money meant it was getting very difficult to pay storage costs, it got a point where I was seriously considering weighing it in, I travelled to the garage, opened up the car and climbed into the drivers seat. It was then I knew that I couldn't scrap it, I would've always regretted it.
      I'd had a least 3 cars whilst this one was stored away, including a couple of periods where I didnt have a car. Then in April 2011 not long after my 825 expired, a cheque from the tax man landed on my door step for the sum of £500, it was then I knew that this was my only chance to get the mk1 827 Sterling on the road, so, once the money cleared in my bank (Bastards took some charges aswell so I ended up with a little less) a phone call to Telford recovery firm saw me on the first step to awaking the beast.....
      A few days before its recovery, myself and Brad went down to turn the car around, when I wheeled it into the garage in 2008, I wheel it in facing the front, I didn't want to messing about trying to turn it around and what have you when the recovery lad was there. Brad bought a spare battery and some tools, after a few small tries the engine fired up into life, then after the reverse gear was eventually selected (The gearbox had problems selecting gears) with a big bump-sound coming from the brakes area the brakes freed themselves off and out came the Sterling for the first time in 3 and-a-half years, a little more dusty than before but just as clean looking as the day it went in:




      I was overcome with excitement, I knew it was now or never, getting this beast back on the road was a priority...

      So the day came to finally get the Sterling out and onto the next step of project Mk1 Sterling: The recovery I met the recovery fella in Telford at my garage, we got the car pulled out and onto the back of the truck, due to time contraints and not wanting to hold the lad up, I couldn't get any pics apart from this one:

      I cleared out the garage for the last time as I was looking to give it up. Once loaded, we eventually hit Birmingham and finally my mates garage, the car got unloaded, £60 handed to the recovery lad and now it was finally at its destination, hopefully the next time I got into the car would be to drive it home.


      It needed a gearbox fitting, Hondamatic ATF-Z1 gearbox oil, a new backbox, a tyre and an MOT. The gearbox had already been delivered courtesy of Brad, I bought the backbox in later on.
      It was basically agreed with my mate that this would be a project that he could fit in, other cars that were properly booked in and such forth would take priority, I knew this would take time and I was happily patient to wait...
      Winning and losing
      About 3 months later I got a call from the garage, the car was ready for me to take away. Finally! after all those years I'd finally get to really drive the car, I happily made my way to the garage all excited and finally to recieve my car.
      I got in turned the key and it fired up beautifully, I waged my way to the local post office to buy a new tax disc after the MOT was completed, now the car was finally and legally on the road, at long last. So there I was, happily driving along, I couldn't wait to get my car home, unfortunately literally about a mile from home, the car decided to cut out and not start again, I managed to roll into the entrance to an industrial park, thankfully I was with the RAC who sent someone out. I spoke to a guard at the entrance of the industrial park who was happy to keep an eye on it until the RAC man could make his way down, I went off home to pick up the 820e that had been borrowed to me:

      The first RAC man tried everything, he put it down to the rotar arm and cap as these were pretty worn, an RAC recovery van was booked for me which had a retractable A-frame. The second RAC man turned out to be a Mk2 Cavalier nut, we spent most of the time talking about mk2/3 Cavalier/Calibres and the ones he bought, we also talked about the forums we were on and so on. I finally managed to diagnose the problem as being down to a crank-angle sensor, the engine was given a service too to try and diagnose the problem earlier on. Eventually I managed to track down a crank-angle sensor and gave it to the garage.
      A couple of weeks later I once again received a call from the garage to say the car was ready, I had the car for day when the alternator failed on me just outside Halesowen, brilliant. Back to the garage, more expense and time waiting for the alternator to be refurbed and it was and finally ready once again, but this time though I was very cautious as obviously the parts were failing and getting old.
      Changing for new
      • Heater blower
      My excitement was suppressed by the fact that something could fail anytime soon as the car had twice before. I managed to use it for a day, then a few more days which turned into weeks and so on, I started to enjoy driving and owning it, it didn't fail or breakdown, however being an old car, other parts were also starting to go. First to go was the heater blower, whilst the heater itself worked, the blower failed. I managed to find a proper Rover heater blower on ebay for about £15, once received I got under the glovebox and set about exchanging the damn thing, it was a fiddly job but relatively easy, apparently easier than than non-aircon cars. Job done and I now had a blower that blew out nice warm air during the cold spell.
      Old heater blower:


      • Air filter and service
      I also gave the car a new air flter:

      Seems pretty obvious that before myself and Brad before me owned it, it hadn't been very well looked after. When it was serviced the old plugs were found to be burnt, the oil had been topped up too much, the oil filter was a mess, the fuel filter fared no better and the rotor arm and cap were seriously worn, all of these were changed before we found the crank angle sensor problem, and whilst it added to my bill, I'm glad it had been done.
      • Amping it up
      Next on the list was the cigar-lighter socket, it didn't work, I only found this out when I tried my shat-nav, it needed nothing more than a 7.5 amp fuse, though I had to take out the ashtray and trip computer to get access to it, I drove up to the local motorfactors with all this floating about to the passenger footwell, though once the fuse was on and everything refitted, it was another job jobbed.
      • Tyres!
      The front tyres were seriously worn, they were in such a bad condition, though looking at them from the outside they didn't look too bad, the front wheel wobbled about though seeing as one of the wheel-weights had fallen off I decided that some new tyres were in order. I got lucky by landing myself some all-weather Dunlops for the front and once the old front tyres were taken off, only then did I realise just how bad the tyres were, one even had a small chunk of rubber missing from the tyre wall, I'm glad I got new tyres, gone now was the wobbly rough ride now transormed to a smooth silky ride.

      • Radio
      I couldn't fit a stereo in the car due to the horribly bodged job some idiot did to the wiring previously. Previous to myself and Brad, the car had belonged to someone who worked for Ford down South, so I suspect this was the sod who fucked up the radio cables trying to fit Ford items as there was a Ford connector block in with the wiring. That and the Ford-badges wiper of which I had to cut with some metal cutters as it wouldn't come off.
      Radio wires:

      I have recently received some cables and plugs so its just a matter of fitting them on now.
      • Seat Switchpack
      So far, one of the bulbs in the seat switchpacks has given up, seeing as they can't be changed so easily, I've resorted to just living with it until I can sort something else out, I did manage to change another 7.5 fuse for the rear ashtray so that another job ticked off:
      Switchpack and bulb:


      Sterling work
      So far, the Rover Sterling has been doing sterling work of keeping me transported in absolute comfort and ease, its lovely to have such a nice car to waft about in and it makes me smile just knowing I own it, when I walk out to the car it makes me smile knowing that I'll be wafting along to wherever I'm going. It was inadvertantly helped me when I damaged my left knee at the scrappy a few days back, being an auto it was very easy to drive myself about.
      I want to keep this car for as long as I can, I have no plans on selling it. I just want to keep it in as good, clean a condition as I can physically/financially manage, and with the help of good friends, knowledge and seemingly endless spare parts I can hopefully acheive this goal. The only thing I wish for now is a garage so I can keep it safer and cleaner.
      I know it been very long, its been long for me to type, but thanks for reading and have a few pics:






      With my other mk1, hopefully I'll get all my other Sterlings together for a photoshoot:


    • By urpert
      Sadly this sign was not accompanied by a showroom full of gleaming 504 estates

×
×
  • Create New...