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Six Cylinders Motoring Notes


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12 hours ago, Andyrew said:

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 the Milkfloat really is one im quite curious/eager to have a look at/have bash at, as I find it very interesting both from as a shitter, but also as someone who is interested in old electrical things

 

AFAIK? the main thing she needs to get moving is just a power source, its a 60V DC 10Kw~ motor IIRC, so thats "only" about 166A

and going by how basic these generally are I dont think it would care where it gets it from, originally it would have run off a whole bunch of individual 2V lead acid cells wired in series

so alternatively if we can scrounge up 5 (or 6 to make up for any voltage drop) large Car batteries (or smaller ones wired in series-parallel sets etc or better yet 5 or 6 Deep cycle SLA's) to string together, I think that should work well enough to get her moving (although range might be a bit limited!) since 5x12V=60V :) 

the only potential  stumbling block, is I cant recall if it has any sort of load balancing or individual cell monitoring going on among all the many 2V cells or if they where literally all wired in series, and just terminated to positive & negative connection points

if they are just wired together as one big string without any interconnections then I cant see why the car battery/normal Sealed lead acid battery idea wont work to get her going

(and going by her age/how simple these things generally are I want to say thats the case, apart from maybe a 12V tap off to run all the lights and stuff, assuming that does not have its own battery or a DC-DC step down converter of some kind, but that would be easy enough to connect to one of the car-come-traction batteries or its own battery)

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9 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I sadly dont know anymore about the video itself, Perhaps @Yoss or @busmansholiday may know more about it as they where active in the scene back then 

Seen that video before, M4 between London and Heathrow. Was actually looking at some 8mm I shot at Heathrow around 1973/4 only last week. Had RMA'S in the old BEA livery on plus a 707 taking off. Really has focused my mind to get it transferred professionally, as using your phone is crap. 

Also those three are in the three different liveries, BEA, BOAC and BA.

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A bit of nonsense!

What years are our cars? 

They range from 1961 to 2005

Top year for us is 1983 with six cars

Why have we not got any cars 1980 to 1982

1961 2
1963 1
1964 2
1965 1
1966 2
1967 NIL
1968 2
1969 1
1970 1
1971 1
1972 2
1973 1
1974 2
1975 NIL
1976 3
1977 NIL
1978 2
1979 1
1980 NIL
1981 NIL
1982 NIL
1983 6
1984 1
1985 2
1986 1
1987 2
1988 2
1989 1
1990 2
1991 1
1992 1
1993 NIL
1994 2
1995 NIL
1996 3
1997 1
1998 1
1999 3
2000 2
2001 2
2002 2
2003 1
2004 NIL
2005 1
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Re milkfloat - my memories of physics are pretty faint now so I don't recall whether wiring, say, five 100AH batteries up in series would give 60v and 500AH or 60v and 100AH, but even if it's the latter that should be enough to run the milkfloat for half an hour or so - enough to get to the chippy and at least part of the way back...

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1 minute ago, wuvvum said:

Re milkfloat - my memories of physics are pretty faint now so I don't recall whether wiring, say, five 100AH batteries up in series would give 60v and 500AH or 60v and 100AH, but even if it's the latter that should be enough to run the milkfloat for half an hour or so - enough to get to the chippy and at least part of the way back...

What about max current draw without over heating them and bucking plates?

The plan is to link up some car batteries we have to prove all the control systems and motor work before investing is milk float batteries.

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15 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

A bit of nonsense!

What years are our cars? 

They range from 1961 to 2005

Top year for us is 1983 with six cars

Why have we not got any cars 1980 to 1982

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

so.......................much......................................nerd....................................

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22 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Re milkfloat - my memories of physics are pretty faint now so I don't recall whether wiring, say, five 100AH batteries up in series would give 60v and 500AH or 60v and 100AH, but even if it's the latter that should be enough to run the milkfloat for half an hour or so - enough to get to the chippy and at least part of the way back...

it would be 60V 100Ah

as your still drawing the same amount of current from each battery, so the amp hour capacity stays the same (but since the voltage is now much higher you now have a lot more power for a given current since voltage times amps=wattage aka power, 1A at 12V is only 12W but 1A at 60V is now 60W)

 

from a brief bit of research (tho there is sadly not much online about the technical details on milk floats)  I think a Wales and Edwards Rangemaster (which IIRC is what Molly is) has a 350AH~ battery capacity for a 40 mile range I think?

 

 

17 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

What about max current draw without over heating them and bucking plates?

The plan is to link up some car batteries we have to prove all the control systems and motor work before investing is milk float batteries.

yeah that sort of data will probably be in the data sheet of whatever batteries you end up using, so should not be too hard to figure out

 

13 hours ago, Andyrew said:

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and just to bring this full circle to match Molly's original battery capacity/voltage you would need about 5600 AA batteries LOL (assuming 2.5Ah and 1.5V per AA Battery)

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8 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah that sort of data will probably be in the data sheet of whatever batteries you end up using, so should not be too hard to figure out

I guess it will be open a few car bonnets and borrow the batteries we can find on the day.

Max current draw (start up) seems to be quoted but not sustainable current draw.

What does amps does a starter draw once it is turning?

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18 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

I guess it will be open a few car bonnets and borrow the batteries we can find on the day.

Max current draw (start up) seems to be quoted but not sustainable current draw.

What does amps does a starter draw once it is turning?

thats the thing, a Car battery is design for a very high but short term current draw

you will find this rating sometimes as CCA, cold cranking amps which is how many amps a car battery can deliver in cold conditions

since a starter motor draws a Lot of current but only relatively briefly 

but they would not last long in say an EV application where they get charged then drained and charged etc, thats what Deep cycle batteries are for

(its actually one of the things iv been meaning to check on REV's battery, since im surprised just how well its done, despite standing for long periods of time between FoD gatherings etc, so I have to wonder given where REV came from if she is actually fitted with a Deep cycle battery borrowed out of someones Mobility scooter!)

 

if you got some spare time to kill I recommend giving this a watch :) (he explains about a couple diffrent types of lead acid battery quite well)

 

 

53 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

enough to get to the chippy and at least part of the way back...

doing some rough calculations, assuming a top speed of 20Mph and the motor is drawing all of its 10Kw, 100Ah of batteries would get you about 10 Miles of range, but im not sure how far the Chippy is from the FoD LOL

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16 hours ago, Yoss said:

 

Forget Invacars (no offence) I want to recreate that exactly as it is there. I doubt you'd be holding up the traffic either, isn't most of the M4 50mph now anyway. 

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We have a friend who used to have a Routemaster and we used to get to go on trips with it. He maxed it out for us on the A422 once and we got 44 mph on the GPS. It had the 11.3 engine but the low diff ratio.

P1200739 broad.jpg

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I'd suggest before getting too deeply involved with trying to actually power the milk float that you make sure you have a DC clamp meter on hand to measure current draw so you can keep an eye on what's going on.  While there's not a huge shock risk at these voltages (back EMF from some probably substantial contactors possibly aside!), strings of batteries like that have an alarming habit of when things go even slightly wrong of turning themselves into arc welders.  It's also quite possible for some unknown and unseen fault to sink many hundreds of watts of power without any visible evidence whatsoever...until either A: The battery mysteriously goes flat for no obvious reason or B: Something catches fire.

I'm generally a fan of the relaxed approach to spannering, but when working on HV battery strings which can deliver hundreds of amps under shirt circuit conditions I'd be taking a very methodical, very careful approach. 

At the very least it's worth taking some time to trace all the wiring out so you know where all the terminals are so you don't accidentally short something out with the handle of a spanner.  It's alarming enough doing that with a normal car battery...never mind doing it with several in series.

...Or on a big commercial grade one.  Saw a friend do that on a bus once.  There was a loud bang, a bright flash of arc...then two ends of a 17mm spanner welded to the terminals with a several inch gap in the middle.

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7 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

There was a loud bang, a bright flash of arc...then two ends of a 17mm spanner welded to the terminals with a several inch gap in the middle.

I have seen a battery with a handle before. When I sold batteries from a car parts store the customer asked if the return battery would be ok with a spanner melted to it that had fallen across the terminals. I said yes so he bought a new battery and bought me the old one that had a large spanner melted to the terminals. 

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Reminds me of the story of the french Aston entry at Le Mans, (1), 1961. Still running strongly in the 23rd hour, everyone’s exhausted in the pit crew. Somebody leaves a spanner on top on the battery at the last pit stop- and fries the electrics. Car retired.  Incroyable!

7CF19A3C-18EF-48D3-A4C5-240146254209.thumb.png.6dadbb1b05b9044641d4071b749b9b91.png

 

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17 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

I have seen a battery with a handle before. When I sold batteries from a car parts store the customer asked if the return battery would be ok with a spanner melted to it that had fallen across the terminals. I said yes so he bought a new battery and bought me the old one that had a large spanner melted to the terminals. 

Would like to have seen a pic !! 😁

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2 hours ago, bobdisk said:

Would like to have seen a pic !! 😁

It was a long time ago before digital cameras and there was a cost to taking pictures. It is unfortunate that I did not consider taking pictures of my everyday work at the motor parts shop worth the money as now the inside of a early 1980s motor parts store would be interesting . All I have is a not very well framed picture of the outside of the very shop in High Wycombe the battery with a handle incident happened.

Then in 1985 I went to work for a Volvo dealer selling cars, I so wish I had photographed the showroom, used car display, service cars and new vehicle compound every few months, they would be great to look at now. I did photograph all my company cars which at the time my boss thought I was weird.

MDC shop front High Wycombe 01 small.jpg

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6 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

 as now the inside of a early 1980s motor parts store would be interesting .

Just pop by my work 😆. Some of the old tat still kicking around, infact from the first picture below (estimated around the late 70s) those windows and doors were only replaced about 3 years ago! The door was hanging off and all the windows had dropped down. 

Prime shite outside as standard too.

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Bonus street view of Our shite van (still around as i sold it to the now sadly late vauxhall lover ian, so hopefully it lives on with someone else as he loved that van when i had it and wanted to make it look like new again. Puma was bean canned. 

Screenshot_20210102-160031.thumb.png.b38c67b90f251444ea9d348b6811c6b2.png

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16 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Just pop by my work 😆. Some of the old tat still kicking around, infact from the first picture below (estimated around the late 70s) those windows and doors were only replaced about 3 years ago! The door was hanging off and all the windows had dropped down. 

Prime shite outside as standard too.

20201230_193229.thumb.jpg.fa5715cdb5af9d009460f2a9d7f362fe.jpg

Bonus street view of Our shite van (still around as i sold it to the now sadly late vauxhall lover ian, so hopefully it lives on with someone else as he loved that van when i had it and wanted to make it look like new again. Puma was bean canned. 

Screenshot_20210102-160031.thumb.png.b38c67b90f251444ea9d348b6811c6b2.png

Take some pictures inside even if nobody will want to look at them for 30 years.

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20 hours ago, strangeangel said:

 

Be careful... as someone who has sampled Mrs 6C's cider, it goes down easy but sneaks up on you like an assailant with a sock full of pool balls 🤣

 

Seasoned strong cider drinker who knows when to stop. Normally the third pint for me.

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38 minutes ago, dozeydustman said:

Seasoned strong cider drinker who knows when to stop. Normally the third pint for me.

Some of my 2018 vintage might need to be drunk in smaller quantities... I had six gallons turn out at 9.8%, six at 9.9% and one very special gallon pressed on Christmas Eve turned out at 10.6%...

I have just bottled 6 gallons of a single variety batch made with Yarlington Mill apples, which was pressed on 01-Jan-20. It turned out at 5%, with a pleasant hint of sweetness and a dry oak finish. I'm rather pleased with it. It would make for a pleasant three pints, I think.

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  • Six-cylinder changed the title to Six Cylinders Motoring Notes

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