Six Cylinders Motoring Notes

[DoctorRetro]

1 minute ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

Is that not a Marea with a Mitsuoka nose?

It's based on the Alfa 156 apparently 

[Andyrew]

@Mrs6C

Want me to try find a starter solenoid for dolly?

Does anyone have a pic of the old one?

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

@Mrs6C

Want me to try find a starter solenoid for dolly?

Does anyone have a pic of the old one?

not sure I have a picture on hand but here is hopefully a useful excerpt from the Steyr Puch 500cc engine service manual 

Quote

The cars are equipped with a Bosch regulator type RS/TBA 160/12/1 and a separately fitted Bosch starter relay type 0.333.009.003.

I assume the "starter relay" is the starter solenoid in this case?

but whats happened to Dollys existing one? its not just bad earths is it?

[Zelandeth]

3 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

not sure I have a picture on hand but here is hopefully a useful excerpt from the Steyr  Puch 500cc service manual 

I assume the "starter relay" is the starter solenoid in this case?

but whats happened to Dollys existing one? its not just bad earths is it?

It appears to stick, frequently requiring percussive maintenance.  I remember the one on KPL being really touchy about the ground connection (thorough the body) so it might be worth cleaning that up first and seeing if it helps.

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

It appears to stick, frequently requiring percussive maintenance.  I remember the one on KPL being really touchy about the ground connection (thorough the body) so it might be worth cleaning that up first and seeing if it helps.

Yeah given that none of Dolly's warning lights work at all, (among other non functional electrical items) im pretty sure there are some electrical gremlins at play here LOL

not sure how much good it will do, but ill be bringing the can of electrical contact cleaner with me again, (mainly to see if I can tackle some more of REV's own electricial issues, but of course more then happy to have a bash at sorting Dolly's issues! ) 

as a side note REV's clock makes for a really handy "do I have power" indicator  

 

(as a side note if the solenoid is physically jamming up, can it be lubed/cleaned up and made to operate freely once more?)

[Six-cylinder]

24 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

@Mrs6C

Want me to try find a starter solenoid for dolly?

Does anyone have a pic of the old one?

Yes please.

@LightBulbFun do you have a picture and or part number the starter solenoid?

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Yes please.

@LightBulbFun do you have a picture and or part number the starter solenoid?

not sure I have a picture on hand but here is hopefully a useful excerpt from the Steyr Puch 500cc engine service manual 

Quote

The cars are equipped with a Bosch regulator type RS/TBA 160/12/1 and a separately fitted Bosch starter relay type 0.333.009.003.

I assume the "starter relay" is the starter solenoid in this case?

 

if a replacement is needed, im sure if all else fails, haflinger technik will have the right part in stock  (and if they dont have the correct part in stock, then I know a Steyr Puch 500 specialist in Austria who will for sure!)

[Six-cylinder]

Andyrew is going to have a look if he can find one for this weekend but needs a clue what he is looking for, can you copy the parts manual please.

 

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Andyrew is going to have a look if he can find one for this weekend but needs a clue what he is looking for, can you copy the parts manual please.

DHSS Workshop Manual For The Model 70 Three Wheeler(OCR).pdf

here is the workshop manual

I can PM @Andyrew (or you) the DHSS spare parts list (it contains chassis and registration numbers so I dont want to post that publicly) but it sadly does not contain anything useful with regards to the starter solenoid that I can see

 

however checking the ol Spare parts stash list, shows a "solenoid" listed in box 2, perhaps thats worth a look?  (it just says solenoid, but im not sure there are any others on a Model 70 beside the starter one!)

[Andyrew]

Ill try and find something if a pic can be obatained. Im going with anything old and lucas based. It depends on how man connections

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Ill try and find something if a pic can be obatained. Im going with anything old and lucas based. It depends on how man connections

engine and all related ancillaries is from Austria/Europe just keep that in mind!

is "starter relay" not the same thing as a starter solenoid then?

[Zelandeth]

Exhibit A: Model 70 Starter Solenoid.

[Six-cylinder]

11 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Exhibit A: Model 70 Starter Solenoid.

@Andyrew

[Talbot]

12 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

is "starter relay" not the same thing as a starter solenoid then?

Generally, No.  A starter relay is exactly that, a massive relay that can switch the hundreds of amps needed for a recoil-engage starter (or a dynastart), but does nothing else.

Pre-engaged starters, however, have a starter solenoid, which is essentially a solenoid and relay in one unit, but generally referred to as just a starter solenoid.

Worth making the distinction, as there are quite a few cars with starter solenoids that also have a starter relay to switch the current needed for the starter solenoid.  These are just normal small automotive relays though, not the sort that will energise a recoil-type starter.

[Six-cylinder]

1 minute ago, Talbot said:

Generally, No.  A starter relay is exactly that, a massive relay that can switch the hundreds of amps needed for a recoil-engage starter (or a dynastart), but does nothing else.

Pre-engaged starters, however, have a starter solenoid, which is essentially a solenoid and relay in one unit, but generally referred to as just a starter solenoid.

Worth making the distinction, as there are quite a few cars with starter solenoids that also have a starter relay to switch the current needed for the starter solenoid.  These are just normal small automotive relays though, not the sort that will energise a recoil-type starter.

Also there are systems like my old Triumph that has a "starter solenoid" but this is only really a relay, low current is used to operate a high current switch. With this type of starter the rotation of the starter sends the bendix (cog) out on a spiral to engage with the flywheel. 

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Generally, No.  A starter relay is exactly that, a massive relay that can switch the hundreds of amps needed for a recoil-engage starter (or a dynastart), but does nothing else.

Pre-engaged starters, however, have a starter solenoid, which is essentially a solenoid and relay in one unit, but generally referred to as just a starter solenoid.

Worth making the distinction, as there are quite a few cars with starter solenoids that also have a starter relay to switch the current needed for the starter solenoid.  These are just normal small automotive relays though, not the sort that will energise a recoil-type starter.

ah interesting  good to know!

 

as mentioned I THINK there may be what we are looking for in box 2 of the spares stash, perhaps one for @Mrs6C to look out for next time she is rummaging around there?  

 

but yeah will be interesting to see what @Andyrew can dig up  

[Andyrew]

 

[Andyrew]

Claires looks somethig like that

[Talbot]

21 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Also there are systems like my old Triumph that has a "starter solenoid" but this is only really a relay, low current is used to operate a high current switch. With this type of starter the rotation of the starter sends the bendix (cog) out on a spiral to engage with the flywheel. 

That is a Starter Relay tho, Shirley?, not a solenoid. (the system I mentioned and referred to as a recoil-type starter.)

[Six-cylinder]

7 minutes ago, Talbot said:

That is a Starter Relay tho, Shirley?, not a solenoid. (the system I mentioned and referred to as a recoil-type starter.)

That is the strange thing, they were always called solenoids!

Yes I now understand it is a relay but if you asked for a relay for a triumph Herald starter nobody would know what you were talking about.

Edit - looking on Rimmer Bro site they are still calling them solenoids.

[Mrs6C]

Looks like a Lucas 76766, the kind that Triumph Heralds have. If so, the centre should be a push button to be able to spin the starter and/or the car remotely if the ignition is on.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

[Six-cylinder]

2 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Looks like a Lucas 76766, the kind that Triumph Heralds have. If so, the centre should be a push button to be able to spin the starter and/or the car remotely if the ignition is on.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

The starting from a manual button on the solenoid was only on the older original ones, the replacements I sold in the early 1980s did not have the manual button and only worked with the key.

[Mr Pastry]

26 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

The starting from a manual button on the solenoid was only on the older original ones, the replacements I sold in the early 1980s did not have the manual button and only worked with the key.

The manual starter button was deleted as a safety precaution when automatic transmissions were introduced.

[hairnet]

38 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Looks like a Lucas 76766, the kind that Triumph Heralds have. If so, the centre should be a push button to be able to spin the starter and/or the car remotely if the ignition is on.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

NERD ENGAGED

Chris do as yer told ?

[wuvvum]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

Also there are systems like my old Triumph that has a "starter solenoid" but this is only really a relay, low current is used to operate a high current switch. With this type of starter the rotation of the starter sends the bendix (cog) out on a spiral to engage with the flywheel. 

Going even more basic, there was the setup like the one on my old Ford 100E where what looks like a solenoid isn't actually a solenoid at all, it's just a massive switch with the full starter current running through it and the cable from the starter button acts directly on the switch contacts.

[Zelandeth]

I am now glad to report that the Trevi has a fully working heating and ventilation system, including the air distribution controls.

[Six-cylinder]

1 hour ago, wuvvum said:

Going even more basic, there was the setup like the one on my old Ford 100E where what looks like a solenoid isn't actually a solenoid at all, it's just a massive switch with the full starter current running through it and the cable from the starter button acts directly on the switch contacts.

Early Minis had a starter button on the floor as well that you used to manually connect the starter cable together with.

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Early Minis had a starter button on the floor as well that you used to manually connect the starter cable together with.

pretty sure at least one Model 70 had something like that fitted, see bottom left! (either that or its a foot operated windscreen washer setup?)

[hairnet]

ello

need to do an oil change to mx5

are there any places in buckingham that would do that on saturday morning - due to issues up here dont wanna take car to place here - not them or car related)

have oil have filter

thanks

@Andyrew - booked car in on Tuesday thinking they'd say some time this week

Nope - Thursday next week

Thanks for offer - we give you cake anyway

[chaseracer]

6 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I wonder what a 21st century Trevi might look like if being designed now?

 

6 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

A cloned Chrysler?

A rebadged Dodge Dart?  Which is itself in essence an Alfa Giulietta.  So it might not be too bad... ?

The Chrysler 200 was flogged in Europe as the Lancia Flavia - for about ten minutes - some years back.