A warning about having a lease car, best stick to the bangers

[garethj]

A few months back one of the local dealers was doing a £70 deposit then £70 / month + VAT for 36 months on a new Aygo / C1 / 107 or whatever it was. At that price and as we could recover the VAT I was quite tempted as at that price it does seem a relatively sensible way to run a new car.

You might be quite tempted until you came to drive one.

 

When Mrs_garethj's Jaguar was at the garage the courtesy car was a new Citroen C1.  It was worse in every respect than the 15 year old Skoda Octavia diesel I had at the time, in fact the closest match was to a 1984 Polo that a friend had years ago.  Except the Polo was faster, had better handling, more space inside and was more comfortable.

 

I sometimes toy with the idea of a new car, but I don't think I've ever driven a new car (apart from new Jaguars which are definitely out of budget) which isn't soul destroying to drive.

 

If it makes sense to you then go for it, but there are several bits of my brain that stop me doing it.  For example, if I had £250 a month that I absolutely had to spunk on transport, why not make trips to France every 2 months and bring back something with flat white paint and yellow headlamps?  After a year I'd have a couple of Talbot Ranchos, probably a Mk1 Espace, an old Twingo, some 7 seater estate... and I'd only be a third of the way through my 3 year term!

[Albert Ross]

Buying a new car with cash. Like buying a house with cash, except the %value in 10 years is somewhat lower.

Buying a new car on credit. Like buying a house on a mortgage, except "see above".

Buying a used car on credit. Like buying an overpriced (but soiled) house, and the "value" decreases. Tenfold per year.

Buying a used car with a personal loan. Like buying an overpriced (but soiled) house, you cringe as the value decreases, but have slightly more grip on the facts.

Leasing a car. Like handing your wallet to the doorman of a posh hotel, receiving substandard service, and getting arse-raped in the lift as you leave.

Buying a piece of shite with money you found down the back of the sofa. Like squatting in a damp terraced house. Minimal costs, risky, but essentially, the safest option, even IF you stay awake at night for fear of tiles falling through the ceiling and decapitating you.

Stealing a car. The least risky, as you don't give a fuck.

Actually....

Taking the bus. Safest completely. £1.50, gets you there with no involvement.

 

Of course, I could be talking utter bollocks because of free Champagne in a Christmas hamper from work.

[purplebargeken]

Never, ever, ever going to buy new car that way or any way.

 

I much prefer the AS way of doing things which involves good cars and rather excellent folk. Is the Lings site actually real?

[danthecapriman]

Perhaps a simpletons way of looking at it, but it works out for me.

 

Debt = bad, and to be avoided whenever possible.

Renting = paying good money for something you'll never own. Poor economical sense! If I'm spending money I want to own something in return.

So,

Why would I effectively get into debt by renting a new car that I don't and probably won't own. Especially stupid when I know I can get a decent car that will do the same job for £500 or so. And I could stretch its lifespan by getting my hands dirty, therefore making it even better value for money.

 

 

I wouldn't even buy a new car if I had the cash, in fact ive been in that position and bought a 40 year old yank instead! New cars are shit!

[fairkens]

Rightly or wrongly for most people a car is just another white good. They just want it to work. For shiters a breakdown is easily explained and shrugged off - part of the charm. For others a breakdown is a major event, full of stress and anxiety. When faced with the prospect of avoiding that stressful incident forever for a small monthly fee people jump at the chance, even for some plastic Korean shitbox.

 

How many of us have a modern as well as shite ( whether on hp or otherwise). Some days you just need to know that something will work

[dave21478]

...

Debt = bad, and to be avoided whenever possible.

Renting = paying good money for something you'll never own. Poor economical sense! If I'm spending money I want to own something in return.

 

 

Renting a house isnt always as bad as people make it out to be - ok financially you are making someone else wealthy, but you are not tied to the house so if you fancy a move or the neighbours turn out to be dicks, you can pack up and change house with minimal hassle. You also dont have to worry about fixing a leaky roof or subsidence or whatever.

 

Its the same deal with a car lease. Its an easy way for people to get a nice new car on a regular basis and when it shits it DMF or suffers random electrical death, its someone elses problem.

 

I absolutely see why people do it, and given that it can even cost under £100 a month for that sort of peace of mind - no wonder the roads are rammed with new blandmobiles.

Would I do it? no fucking way.  But thats ONLY because new cars bore me to death, but the advantages of the scheme IE no maintenance costs and ability to change cars every couple of years appeals hugely. If someone started leasing shite for a tenner down and ten pounds per month, I would be first in the queue to sign up.

[New POD]

My Father hasn't had a second hand car since the 1950's when his first car was a morris eight. He then had a 1959 mini, which had 3 gearboxes in the first year and leaked water, then a succession of NEW fords, Lots of Cortina's until he got his mk4 estate as a company car, then a succession of company cortinas, seirras and Mondeos until he retired and paid £18K cash for a new 2.0 Focus Ghia estate in 2001.  Then in 2009 he paid £17K minus £1500 px for another new focus estate, this time a 1.8 titanium. My sister is going the same way.  She paid Cash for a brand new Fiesta a couple of years back.

Father in Law NEVER had a new car until 2000, when he purchased a 1.6 16V mk4 astra club for £11000.  In June of this year with only 20K on the clock after 14 years, he gave it to my son.

There seems to be something about owning outright the car you own, its real money, not the funny money of a loan.

[Largactil]

I leased an Avantime 3 litre V6 Privilege back in 2004 - £199 x3 + £199 for 11 months.

 

It was an ex-Renault UK car, so was 18 months old at the time I got it - But had all the options.

 

Cost me just shy of £2800 to run an Avantime for a year - The rate they were depreciating at that time was several multiples of £2800 annually.

 

No regrets really, but Renault Business Finance tried to stiff me for £700 of repairs when they picked it up (which I haggled down to £300), and that was what put me off leasing again.

[danthecapriman]

Renting a house isnt always as bad as people make it out to be - ok financially you are making someone else wealthy, but you are not tied to the house so if you fancy a move or the neighbours turn out to be dicks, you can pack up and change house with minimal hassle. You also dont have to worry about fixing a leaky roof or subsidence or whatever.

 

Its the same deal with a car lease. Its an easy way for people to get a nice new car on a regular basis and when it shits it DMF or suffers random electrical death, its someone elses problem.

 

I absolutely see why people do it, and given that it can even cost under £100 a month for that sort of peace of mind - no wonder the roads are rammed with new blandmobiles.

Would I do it? no fucking way.  But thats ONLY because new cars bore me to death, but the advantages of the scheme IE no maintenance costs and ability to change cars every couple of years appeals hugely. If someone started leasing shite for a tenner down and ten pounds per month, I would be first in the queue to sign up.

I think it's different with property, very few people are lucky enough to be able to buy a home or property to work from (shop, unit etc) outright there and then with cash. So, depending on the individual, renting or a mortgage is, unfortunately a form of debt that almost everyone has to have and put up with. It's almost a form of debt that's not worth worrying about in that respect as you don't tend to have much choice!

putting a roof over your and your family's head, be it renting or a mortgage is one of the only forms of debt I think is acceptable really. I certainly can't see the good in doing the same for a car, new tv or other shit though.

[warren t claim]

As I've said before, I'm certain I'd never be able to obtain and maintain a workable erection knowing I was financially lumbered with paying £299 a month for four years on some plastic vanity machine.

[Craig the Princess]

I think it's different with property, very few people are lucky enough to be able to buy a home or property to work from (shop, unit etc) outright there and then with cash. So, depending on the individual, renting or a mortgage is, unfortunately a form of debt that almost everyone has to have and put up with. It's almost a form of debt that's not worth worrying about in that respect as you don't tend to have much choice!

putting a roof over your and your family's head, be it renting or a mortgage is one of the only forms of debt I think is acceptable really. I certainly can't see the good in doing the same for a car, new tv or other shit though.

 

 

The main difference is property is (generally) an appreciating asset. So the amout you pay in interest is more than offset by the increase in value. With a car it is very much the other way so 2 1/2 years in you are paying loads for what you have.

[Pete-M]

Someone I know is a maths lecturer, passed his driving test when he was 25 and needed a car because he'd just got a job teaching in a college 15 miles from his home which is in one of those places where public transport really wasn't a viable option.

 

Because his house is in an area that has the worst car insurance loading in the UK, and he'd passed his test that week his insurance quotes were absolutely insane on cheap old cars. £5500 TPF&T on a Cinquecento was one of the cheapest quotes he received. He could have had the Cinq for free but nobody in their right mind would pay that for the insurance.

 

His local Peugeot dealer at the time had a deal on where he bought a new 207 1.4 and got three years free insurance, servicing, and breakdown on 0% finance over four years. £10,500, £99 deposit. About £215/month. Because he didn't have any accidents or claims his insurance is now around £600/year and the car will be paid for in full at the end of Feb.

 

Now, I don't know what a one owner, fsh, immaculate 60 plate 207 1.4 with 40k on the clock is worth but I'd guess ať £3.5k-4k so he's not done badly when the insurance quotes were so mental.

[jakebullet]

You can blow the PPI compensation vultures minds by saying What loan? I pay cash for everything.

 

Some of them make a second attempt by asking if you have a credit card. Yes I do! It's got direct debit on it to pay the full amount. Cash back for the win!

[lisbon_road]

I'm totally sold on all the autoshite stuff (though I am a bit OCD on maintenance, which isn't entirely autoshite).  The only thing I will say in favour of new or newish cars is this.

 

If my old car breaks down (which never happens but one day) and I am late for something work-like, it is my fault.  For having an old car, or whatever.

 

If a new car breaks down, I can blame the manufacturer.

[filthyjohn]

God bless the fuckwits, for they keep the economy circulating.

[wuvvum]

I have actually made an appointment to test drive a new Dacia Sandero Access next week.

 

We shall see...

[Chas4545]

Does leasing or buying new work on any level except for lazy gits and the rich?

 

"Yes Sir, (smile) that will be £19,999 (smile) including the mats (front only - £125) and (smile) the paint protection system (embarrassed cough) £499.

 

"Now Sir, (smile) as your car will only be worth £13000 as you drive it away from here, (smile) you will need GAP insurance for £699 (rubs hands together like scrooge) , heaven forbid Sir should have a massive crash and only get 60% of your money back.

 

 With such   mahoosive depreciation in first year that UK dealers offer GAP insurance, why would anyone, rich or poor, buy a new car until dealers have been forced by market conditions to value the used car they buy from you at sensible prices, as in much of Europe.  Jeez they must be laughing at the suckers who buy into such a massive financial loss.

 

New Ford mondeo £19500 on the road after £2500 discount. Same car same year 3000 miles old  £13250

WTF ?

[worldofceri]

Not quite the answer to that, but this is from the latest SMMT report on motoring in the UK:

 

 

car purchases 2013.jpg

 

It shows that private purchases made up 47.5% of purchases in 2013. 

 

I'd guess half of those could easily have been bought on finance, maybe more.

That assumption would mean that only 1 in 4 new cars have been paid for by the person sitting inside.

 

-----------------

 

Edit: found this at <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/festival-of-motoring/telegraph/10810434/car-finance-explained.html>:

 

cars bought on finance.jpg

 

So the figure for 2013 is a quarter, 1 in 4.

A quarter of 47.5% is just under 12%.

 

12% of new cars bought in 2013 are owned outright by the person driving them.

 

 

 

12%.

 

Those stats only seem to be including finance provided by the dealer. Loads more purchases will have been financed by personal loans, remortgages, Bank of Mum&Dad etc.  I'd say the number of brand new cars owned outright by the driver is probably closer to 1.2%.

[worldofceri]

I made a £1K loss on my old Mercedes E280 in just nine months, which sounds pretty catastrophic, but then, when you consider that includes all R&M and depreciation that's just £111 a month, or £46 a month less than it would cost to lease a Reliant Robin from Ling's.

[Hendry]

I was always told by my parents that debt was bad and that if you couldn't afford something outright you shouldn't buy it, and that if you really wanted it and couldn't afford it you should save up then buy, not get into debt, and that if by the time you'd saved up you still wanted it then you were making the right choice.

 

That said, my dad has had cars on finance but my folks have only ever had cars on finance and their mortgage, no loans, credit cards, store cards or monthly payments for TVs or sofas etc and I've grown up thinking along those lines. I have had cars on finance and I'd do it again, but I wouldn't do leasing or PCP etc I take finance over 3 years then trade car in whenever I want after that time, my dad buys generally 3 year old cars over 3 years on finance, keeps them for like 6 years until he's had his moneys worth then trades them in, he isnt interested in wasting money on cars, but wouldnt buy an old car and fix it himself, this i think is thr best way of owning reliable modern transport, I certainly wouldn't buy a brand new car even if I could afford one, 2 reasons, 1. Depreciation and 2. Damage, if I had a brand new car and it got scratched etc I'd blame myself, if it was used and scratched I could tell myself it was the previous owner. My dads only ever owned 1 car under a year old, a Feb 2005 '54' Vectors 2.0 DTi Energy in Septembrr 2005, 7 months old, it was £9488 but a new one was £16K madness for the sake of a newer plate. Bottom line is I do finance because I can afford it, I want to and it becomes mine at the end so I've something to show for my cash. When I was younger my mates all spend their money on clothes, drink and nights out/birds, I had a car for my money. My thinking is if you need something long term buy with the intention of owning outright, if you only need something to use one like a fancy dress costume or a power tool only then do you hire it.

 

One thing though, I thought most on here bought old cars because they liked them, were into cars and enjoyed tinkering, the responses to this topic suggest I was wrong and most only do it because they actually aren't fussed about cars so only buy them cheap because they are loathe to spend their money on cars.

 

There's a boy at my work who's just got a Merc A180 CDi and paying £299 a month for 3 years on PCP and hes bought new alloys for it, he's getting the AMG grille for it etc. Would I buggery spend my money tarting up a lease car.