Mercedes 190E - hit me with facts & opinions PLZ.

[Spiny Norman]

As I passed the wee garage that does most of my chod servicing (and the place that sold me an excellent* Daewoo Leganza a few months ago) I happened to notice a Mercedes 190 on their lot with a £995 sticker in the screen, and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since. It's also in that weird browny-purple colour which I quite like.
 

I didn't have time to stop and look so I couldn't even tell what model it was but assuming it's either the 2 litre or 2.6 petrol auto, (I wouldn't entertain a diseasel or a manual) what should I be expecting?

Does Trigger still have his?

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

The 2-litre is slow and thirsty. The 2.6-litre is fast and thirsty. An easy choice, really. Neither is a particularly inspiring drive, but this isn't what they're built for.

 

Running gear is fairly strong, electrics less so. Rust can be a problem, despite OMG Deutsche Qualitat. Fairly easy cars to work on, but good quality parts can be eye-wateringly expensive.

[mercrocker]

I  have had mine for several years now.   Wishbone bushes and distributor cap woes are my only problems of any note.   The 190E forum is a nice place, well behaved and plenty of information but you have to wait for approval.   I really cannot praise these cars highly enough.  Mines 1.8, a bit gutless (not if you drive 60s cars habitually) but cruises at 80 and usually hands out about 28-33MPG.   Auto for preference, the manuals are nothing to write home about in terms of gearchanging joy although of course you can stir the motor a bit more.   Nicely weighted steering and, for me, excellent handling qualities are a cross between E30 BMW and a good Cortina - not as damning as it sounds!    Merc parts are dear but you can skimp on some bits, servicing it yourself is easy enough.   You wont be able to buy a good'un for a bag of sand much longer but just make sure it is a good one - check the early service history, bedding in a Merc when its young seems to pay off and make sure theres no rust hiding away, check along all the wheelarch lips, sunroof surround, boot spare wheel well etc.   There are still loads of clean ones about so don't buy a sieve.  

[Keymaster]

I had a red F reg 2.0 auto a while back. Not particularly fast or dynamic to drive, it was boss for wafting up & down motorways & took city centre rush hour in its stride.

 

Check the wiper unit is greased, as they seize up. That was fun on the motorway when it just stopped wiping anymore! Watch out for rot at the jacking points and the base of the doors. I read that the ABS can play up on them, but never had that problem myself.

[Spiny Norman]

So they're no great ball of fire to drive then? I quite liked my W210 E class I had until earlier this year but even that was a bit lifeless to drive compared to some other stuff I'd had a go in.
Fuel economy I'm not that concerned about though, as long as it'll do mid-high 20s on average.

 

Is there any real arse-of-a-job kind of things on them, the kind of things that some cars have that make people get shot of them rather than tackle?

[trigger]

I've found mine to be very comfortable to drive although the large steering wheel took some getting used too as it's a struggle to get your legs under it when getting in, It's nice for town driving with a auto box and they cruise along the motorway very nicely.

 

But if you do much country road driving you might find that it starts to get a bit of a chore, as for faults then rust around the rear jacking points and behind the saccos, rust inside the boot under the rear screen is another problem area too, Boots tend to leak, and heater matrixes block up easily I've found.

 

Funnily enough as soon as i said that I'm thinking of selling mine a cheap one came up on my Facebook group.

 

 

 

One of the lads at my work is selling his Merc 190e, looks solid, one dent on the n/s/f wing, engines a bit tappety, needs a tyre, and only about 3 weeks MOT left. Interior is MINT

He's after about £400 and it's in Colchester

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EastCoastRetros/

[trigger]

Is there any real arse-of-a-job kind of things on them, the kind of things that some cars have that make people get shot of them rather than tackle?

 

Not that i've found, in fact they seem amazingly easy to work on and most parts are available though ECP's, Also watch out for ball joints as they are meant to give way and the wheels drop.

[Sigmund Fraud]

Anything to do with the springs : they are the usual Merc ultra-long, homicidal ones that require a special compressor.

 

Rear suspension bushes aren't too pleasant to do, mostly because there's approximately 10000 of them in the multi-link rear suspension.

[nacho man]

 

I had a slightly pineappled 190 and it was great but I didn't get on with the 28ft diameter steering wheel.

 

But it was mega easy to work on never put a foot wrong and was generally ace. When I was a youth I bought a proper ropey 190 manual with a carb. I have fond memories of it but that was dog slow, I think the carbed versions only have 90bhp or something.

 

However my brother had a 1.8 and it was hardly any slower than the 2.0 auto I had. Both mine and my brothers were a grand each and both were rust free and had pretty good history.

 

I think it's a good time to get one as they can't stay this cheap for long. I do notice some Arthur Daley types are asking 2/3/4k for some nice ones. So buy it, run it, sell and lose no pennies at all.

[Keymaster]

So they're no great ball of fire to drive then?

 

No, and with that massive steering wheel its more like captaining a boat than driving a car!!

[Ghosty]

I think they're pretty good. Dad doesn't like them - he had a 1.8 in Smoke Silver with chocolate interior as above, but with no headlamp washers and alloys. It was fine when it worked but that wasn't often. We have a spare propshaft for one in the garage IIRC, but I'm not sure if it's one for all or engine/box specific.

[320touring]

[jean luc picard]"Make it so"[/jean luc picard]

[Rocket88]

I've had a couple, and they are pretty strong...................trouble is, because they will "keep going" they tend to be neglected. They're as cheap as they're ever going to be, minters are just starting to get into "scene tax" land...................they're not economical, and are a bit prone to electrical silliness, but the engines / gearboxes are strong. Diesels are dog slow, and not that great on juice. manuals are blessed with a very clunky gearbox, but 90% seem to be autos

[saucedoctor]

My own one wasn't all that old when I got it, but what tinkering I had to do on it was pretty easy. I had to replace a worn drag link on it, which looked like a bugger to do. Turns out there was a wee cutout in the manifold that allowed 2 extension bars in to get at it from the top.

 

Much is made of the "Clunky" manual. Dunno what all the fuss is about, it seemed fine to me. Manual box in these takes ATF, BTW. They sometimes get filled with EP90 by mistake.

[Wackeldackel]

Is there any real arse-of-a-job kind of things on them, the kind of things that some cars have that make people get shot of them rather than tackle?

Not really. All timing chain engines so no cambelty worries. Ditto the earlier comments on wishbones and spring compressors. Rear suspension is very advanced for the time (the earliest examples of these are 31 years old now!!) and replacement of the 5 links and various mounts and bushes is straightforward if time consuming. if it is a 6 cylinder 2.6 ask if its had head gasket done, anything over 100, 000 miles and its on the cards. Water pump on the 6 cylinder engines is awkward but doable with sufficient allen key sockets. Bottom end woes are virtually unheard of on either 4 or 6 cylinder engines, valve stem seals can be done with the head on, they and the valve guides are often the source of oil drinking on both 4 and 6 cylinder engine. Mechanical fuel injection is reliable usually, injectors tend to give up at about 150, 000 miles ish, easy to replace about 20 quid each.

 

I would disagree personally that parts for older mercs are very expensive, find a decent independent specialist and you'll save a lot. Engine mounts lose their hydraulic fluid and don't cushion vibrations leading to nasty knocks, propshaft couplings degrade slowly and cause jerks under acceleration if really bad. Sounds like a shit ton of stuff to go wrong but really judging by the success story that this car was for MB and the fuckloads of them that they sold, theres not that much difficult to them.

[Spiny Norman]

Cheers for the replies guys.

Like I said, I've no idea what model it is. If it's got a manual box or runs on the juice of the tractor I'm not interested.
I'm not expecting a thrilling drive, most of my running these days is either in town or on A roads & motorways & as I approach the age of old fartery I'm far more interested in ride comfort than on the limit handling.
 

The other thing that came to me a while ago is this.... Is there any reason at all to go for a 190 over a W124, other than the rather convenient nature of this one's location?

[dollywobbler]

Only reason is size. W124s are pretty big, but somehow manage not to have huge amounts of rear legroom. They are all pretty relaxing to drive. They aren't cars that encourage a hoon.

[Barry Cade]

I've had a few, mostly Diesel Manuals, which is the way I like em. 46.6 MPG on straight veg with the 2 litre. Be very careful with lower balljoints- check them with the bottom arm jacked to take the pressure off,then lift the wheel with a bar..many have been missed due to incorrect checking,even on MOT's.

 

They are very roomy in the front, but rear space is tighter than you'd think, matrixes can be flushed with citric acid,and reversing the flow. I'd have another in a second, but the prices are only going one way.

 

1 thing that really gets my goat is the horrible clang when you shut the boot....

[Pete-M]

My 190E 2.0 auto was one of the least reliable cars I've ever known. I didn't rate it much even when it occasionally worked.

[Sigmund Fraud]

The other thing that came to me a while ago is this.... Is there any reason at all to go for a 190 over a W124, other than the rather convenient nature of this one's location?

 

The 190 is smaller and has superior* steering feel due to rack & pinion (as opposed to olde Merc recirculating ball steering box). Otherwise they're pretty similar.

 

 

I would disagree personally that parts for older mercs are very expensive, find a decent independent specialist and you'll save a lot.

 

For most parts, you're absolutely right ! But there are some bits like the six cylinder dizzy cap which you need to buy from a Merc dealer, because the aftermarket versions are utterly shite... Last time I bought one it cost 1/3 of the whole car !

[chaseracer]

...and most parts are available though ECP...

 

...though they won't necessarily be the 190 parts you ordered...

 

[Barry Cade]

The 190 is smaller and has superior* steering feel due to rack & pinion (as opposed to olde Merc recirculating ball steering box). Otherwise they're pretty similar.

 

 

The 190 had a steering box too..

[Sigmund Fraud]

The 190 had a steering box too..

 

I stand corrected ! Was the W202 C-class the first Merc with a rack, then ?

[Wackeldackel]

some bits like the six cylinder dizzy cap which you need to buy from a Merc dealer, because the aftermarket versions are utterly shite... Last time I bought one it cost 1/3 of the whole car !

Thats curious. I know ecp will do you a bosch diz cap for the 6 cylinder engine for about £50 ish, or at least they did at easter this year when I bought a new one. Rotor arm about £17 and plugs about £2.30 each for an NGK non resistor. I'm pretty sure bosch made all the original ignition components for the vast majority of MB cars, the stuff by Beru isnt bad either in my experience. Hmmm.

 

I think the 202 was first one without the recirculating ball steering. Normally its a shagged steering damper that makes steering feel a bit wooly on these and w124s

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Anyone who thinks they are overrated needs to check out the 'fucked Montego' thread!

I have only driven one, a D reg 190E manual. Insanely comfy, decent gearbox and that sodding great steering wheel and HGV column stalk. Of course a negected one will be shit but a decent one is woth having.

[Ghosty]

That's a point actually, dad's 190 was his least favourite car of ever.

 

And he's had a Mk2 Escort L...

[Barry Cade]

I stand corrected ! Was the W202 C-class the first Merc with a rack, then ?

Nope, W203 i believe!

[Barry Cade]

Thats curious. I know ecp will do you a bosch diz cap for the 6 cylinder engine for about £50 ish, or at least they did at easter this year when I bought a new one. Rotor arm about £17 and plugs about £2.30 each for an NGK non resistor. I'm pretty sure bosch made all the original ignition components for the vast majority of MB cars, the stuff by Beru isnt bad either in my experience. Hmmm.

 

I think the 202 was first one without the recirculating ball steering. Normally its a shagged steering damper that makes steering feel a bit wooly on these and w124s

Merc parts can be surprising sometimes, but for the right reasons- many times I have been amazed on how reasonable OE Merc parts are for the older models..My Vito needed a new front spring, which was about 70 quid IIRC. Complete strut,including spring and all bolts etc from Merc £110. BMW have a similar scheme and better coffee.

[mercrocker]

You might be lucky with aftermarket dizzy cap but I wasn't.....£90 MB part it took to clear a damp running fault.   NOS Dizzies are unobtanium, the one I bought from Eurocarparts didn't even fit it was so roughly machined.   190s seem to rust less than 124s - having long-term owned both the 124 (260E flavour in my case) and my current 190 the littl'un has been far more satisfactory from an ownership rather than driveability point of view.   Both had similar mileages and service histories but I think its partly down to the simplicity of the 1.8 - keepfit windows, no aircon, no headlamp wiping bollocks etc.   I would have another 190E without hesitation, in fact I go as far as to say that I would not NOT have one if at all possible.   If only Morris Itals were made this way.....

[Sigmund Fraud]

Thats curious. I know ecp will do you a bosch diz cap for the 6 cylinder engine for about £50 ish, or at least they did at easter this year when I bought a new one. Rotor arm about £17 and plugs about £2.30 each for an NGK non resistor. I'm pretty sure bosch made all the original ignition components for the vast majority of MB cars, the stuff by Beru isnt bad either in my experience. Hmmm.

 

Bosch is indeed the correct part. When I had mine (2010), ECP only stocked the Beru ones. That one lasted for three months before the car began running like shite again. When I removed it, I couldn't believe how worn the contacts were ! Hence my visit to MB Salisbury for the most expensive dizzy cap I've ever bought !