Cars you didn't know existed until very recently.

[Jenson Velcro]

25 minutes ago, artdjones said:

A Bristol 406 Zagato. Like someone said earlier, Zagato designs don't fit together. This looks like a weird cut and shut.

Wow, that looks like a poor attempt at a Photoshop image

[martc]

The incongruously named (or badly translated) 'Kiev Sport Soviet Ukrainian' racing car manufactured by the Antonov aircraft design bureau, 1959.

[bunglebus]

1 hour ago, artdjones said:

A Bristol 406 Zagato. Like someone said earlier, Zagato designs don't fit together. This looks like a weird cut and shut.

 

1 hour ago, Jenson Velcro said:

Wow, that looks like a poor attempt at a Photoshop image

I actually had to zoom in as it looked like two photos badly joined together 

[TheOtherStu]

Here’s the real thing. I still think Zagstos look forced

[Austat]

1955 Autobleu 4cv Coupé:

[MisterH]

Hotchkiss Grégoire

[D.E]

Quote

Uruguayan Production of Panhard 24ct

An unsanctioned fibre glass bodied Panhard 24ct was built in Uruguay for the local market by the Uruguayan manufacturer of Panhard vehicles. These cars are distinguishable by their colour coded fibre glass bumpers. Uruguayan 24ct production continued beyond that of the official French version, the last units being sold as 1968 models.[1]

[barrett]

Man, I love the Hotchkiss-Grégoire. Because so few were built and hardly anyone has really driven one, most everything you read about them focusses on what a horrendous failure they were and how ridiculous an idea it was which was always going to ruin the company (I think they cost twice as much as the most expensive six-sylinder Traction Avant at a time when France was at its lowest economic ebb of all time and nobody wanted expensive luxury cars). What you'll never hear is just how flippin' great they are - I reckon it's the best 1950s family saloon I've ever driven. Totally poised, excellent handling, comfortable and effortless to drive, everything built to incredibly high standards. The concept was definitely flawed (it was basically a prototype rushed into production, and the design was constantly being tweaked) but a good one is the match for anything else I can think of. I happen to think they look great, too, which isn't an opinion shared by many. There is no car of the period I can think of better-suited to long-distance motorway travel in speed and comfort.

That being said, it was a pretty mad design. You get the normal snazzy Grégoire stuff like cast-alloy scuttle, fwd, flat engine etc but then the rest of the body is incredibly heavy - there is loads of wood in the construction, and most of the body is steel. I think there are some with mostly aluminium panels, I guess in attempt to make the thing a bit lighter, but by that point it was too late. The complexity of the running gear is really something else. Horizontal coil springs in tension, wishbones AND lever-arm dampers? Yeah, fuck it, why not!

If you want to experience one, our old one (the only running example in the country) is up for sale for an outrageous £20k

[barrett]

18 minutes ago, D.E said:

Never knew this!! Just read some google-translated features about them. Apparently, the Uruguayan Panhard factory approached Panhard in France about making a locally-assembled 24CT. Panhard refused, so the guy in charge simply found a local Panhard 24 owner, told him his car was due for a service, and then totally dismantled it to its smallest parts so his team could reverse-engineer it from the ground up! The guy got so sick of waiting for his car to be returned he broke into the factory one day to find it, and discovered it in a million pieces all over the floor with guys taking measurements etc. I really hope that's a true story!

[JimH]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:01 PM, bunglebus said:

I need to see the engineering behind that 

Looking at the way the cast iron exhaust manifolds have been brazed up I suspect engineering may be a five dollar word for what went on. 

[Asimo]

On 08/12/2021 at 21:01, bunglebus said:

I need to see the engineering behind that 

Some round-the-corner gearing rather like this Ford T-drive. Probably.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5180346A/en

 

 

 

[lesapandre]

3 hours ago, barrett said:

Man, I love the Hotchkiss-Grégoire. Because so few were built and hardly anyone has really driven one, most everything you read about them focusses on what a horrendous failure they were and how ridiculous an idea it was which was always going to ruin the company (I think they cost twice as much as the most expensive six-sylinder Traction Avant at a time when France was at its lowest economic ebb of all time and nobody wanted expensive luxury cars). What you'll never hear is just how flippin' great they are - I reckon it's the best 1950s family saloon I've ever driven. Totally poised, excellent handling, comfortable and effortless to drive, everything built to incredibly high standards. The concept was definitely flawed (it was basically a prototype rushed into production, and the design was constantly being tweaked) but a good one is the match for anything else I can think of. I happen to think they look great, too, which isn't an opinion shared by many. There is no car of the period I can think of better-suited to long-distance motorway travel in speed and comfort.

That being said, it was a pretty mad design. You get the normal snazzy Grégoire stuff like cast-alloy scuttle, fwd, flat engine etc but then the rest of the body is incredibly heavy - there is loads of wood in the construction, and most of the body is steel. I think there are some with mostly aluminium panels, I guess in attempt to make the thing a bit lighter, but by that point it was too late. The complexity of the running gear is really something else. Horizontal coil springs in tension, wishbones AND lever-arm dampers? Yeah, fuck it, why not!

If you want to experience one, our old one (the only running example in the country) is up for sale for an outrageous £20k

The demise of so many interesting French marques was due, in part, to the Pons Plan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Marie_Pons

As opposed to the UK where the early rationalisation of the motor industry was left to the manufacturers themselves - with a little government prodding, in France there was wholesale Government intervention.

Larger engine cars were heavily taxed and the grand routiers severely curtailed in favour of 'popular' cars.

[MisterH]

3 hours ago, barrett said:

Man, I love the Hotchkiss-Grégoire. Because so few were built and hardly anyone has really driven one, most everything you read about them focusses on what a horrendous failure they were and how ridiculous an idea it was which was always going to ruin the company (I think they cost twice as much as the most expensive six-sylinder Traction Avant at a time when France was at its lowest economic ebb of all time and nobody wanted expensive luxury cars). What you'll never hear is just how flippin' great they are - I reckon it's the best 1950s family saloon I've ever driven. Totally poised, excellent handling, comfortable and effortless to drive, everything built to incredibly high standards. The concept was definitely flawed (it was basically a prototype rushed into production, and the design was constantly being tweaked) but a good one is the match for anything else I can think of. I happen to think they look great, too, which isn't an opinion shared by many. There is no car of the period I can think of better-suited to long-distance motorway travel in speed and comfort.

That being said, it was a pretty mad design. You get the normal snazzy Grégoire stuff like cast-alloy scuttle, fwd, flat engine etc but then the rest of the body is incredibly heavy - there is loads of wood in the construction, and most of the body is steel. I think there are some with mostly aluminium panels, I guess in attempt to make the thing a bit lighter, but by that point it was too late. The complexity of the running gear is really something else. Horizontal coil springs in tension, wishbones AND lever-arm dampers? Yeah, fuck it, why not!

If you want to experience one, our old one (the only running example in the country) is up for sale for an outrageous £20k

Yeah I think its a nice looking thing (ok the wheels are a bit too close together IMO) and was it really good enough for a modern motorway? That is astounding 

[RichardK]

3 hours ago, barrett said:

Man, I love the Hotchkiss-Grégoire. Because so few were built and hardly anyone has really driven one, most everything you read about them focusses on what a horrendous failure they were and how ridiculous an idea it was which was always going to ruin the company (I think they cost twice as much as the most expensive six-sylinder Traction Avant at a time when France was at its lowest economic ebb of all time and nobody wanted expensive luxury cars). What you'll never hear is just how flippin' great they are - I reckon it's the best 1950s family saloon I've ever driven. Totally poised, excellent handling, comfortable and effortless to drive, everything built to incredibly high standards. The concept was definitely flawed (it was basically a prototype rushed into production, and the design was constantly being tweaked) but a good one is the match for anything else I can think of. I happen to think they look great, too, which isn't an opinion shared by many. There is no car of the period I can think of better-suited to long-distance motorway travel in speed and comfort.

That being said, it was a pretty mad design. You get the normal snazzy Grégoire stuff like cast-alloy scuttle, fwd, flat engine etc but then the rest of the body is incredibly heavy - there is loads of wood in the construction, and most of the body is steel. I think there are some with mostly aluminium panels, I guess in attempt to make the thing a bit lighter, but by that point it was too late. The complexity of the running gear is really something else. Horizontal coil springs in tension, wishbones AND lever-arm dampers? Yeah, fuck it, why not!

If you want to experience one, our old one (the only running example in the country) is up for sale for an outrageous £20k

I mean, it looks like a modern car rendered in 1950s, rather than a 1950s car that looks a bit modern.

[Richard_FM]

5 hours ago, lesapandre said:

The demise of so many interesting French marques was due, in part, to the Pons Plan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Marie_Pons

As opposed to the UK where the early rationalisation of the motor industry was left to the manufacturers themselves - with a little government prodding, in France there was wholesale Government intervention.

Larger engine cars were heavily taxed and the grand routiers severely curtailed in favour of 'popular' cars.

A lot of French car makers had also been killed off by the depression.

Citroen were lucky to get the 2CV into production as it wasn't in their allocated category.

Thanks to the Pons Plans for years Citroen didn't have a mid sized car in their range, & apart from the slow selling Freigate Renault didn't make any large cars until the mid 1970s.

[Austat]

Austin A40 Sports: 

 

[sdkrc]

Mazda Capera Field Cruiser

[sdkrc]

Mazda T1500

[sdkrc]

And this Toyota Abomination

[juular]

4 minutes ago, sdkrc said:

And this Toyota Abomination

It's kind of like a TX4 and a doblo had an "unhappy accident"

[Metal Guru]

4 hours ago, juular said:

It's kind of like a TX4 and a doblo had an "unhappy accident"

It looks like it was cobbled together from the parts bins of about 10 different cars.

[bunglebus]

5 hours ago, sdkrc said:

Toyota Abomination

It wouldn't surprise me if that was its official moniker knowing the Japanese

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, Metal Guru said:

It looks like it was cobbled together from the parts bins of about 10 different cars.

I kind of like it, in a Nissan Cube sort of way. You'd probably find that, like the Yaris Verso, for some people it would tick a whole load of boxes - accessability wise especially. What's it's official moniker, if not Abomination?

[sdkrc]

 

1 hour ago, High Jetter said:

What's it's official moniker, if not Abomination?

https://carfromjapan.com/cheap-used-toyota-others-2019-for-sale-61af0a4ca123132f3663146f

Listed under Toyota 'others', can't find it's real name but I've put <30seconds into looking

[High Jetter]

Thanks for your time 😀

[D.E]

50 minutes ago, sdkrc said:

 

https://carfromjapan.com/cheap-used-toyota-others-2019-for-sale-61af0a4ca123132f3663146f

Listed under Toyota 'others', can't find it's real name but I've put <30seconds into looking

The name is rather unimaginative: JPN Taxi.

[STUNO]

Toyota JPN Taxi Wiki page

Toyota JPN Taxi - Wikipedia

[Remspoor]

12 hours ago, Austat said:

Austin A40 Sports

built by Jensen.

[High Jetter]

15 minutes ago, STUNO said:

Toyota JPN Taxi Wiki page

Toyota JPN Taxi - Wikipedia

Ideal. A black cab for shorter people. Also probably reliable.

[Snake Charmer]

15 hours ago, Remspoor said:

built by Jensen.

Yes, a lot like the Interceptor.